Prologue Through to the End of the Epilogue--Full Book Discussion.

[Callandora]

I agree we should not dump it all on BS since RJ was the one responsible for the DO vs Rand ending. If i had to make a guess i would bet that RJ mandated Egwenes death scene while leaving the details to BS

[MarkDiLillo]

Except that the end was RJs. It was his. He wrote that final chapter. Not just 37. It was specific that we were getting the end RJ intended.

 

Do we know actually what parts RJ physically wrote himself?  Lots of the ending was BS for certain.  A quick test to see if Brandon wrote the scene is to look for One Power usage described as "weaves" from the PoV of a non channeler.  We see that very often with BS and RJ never did that.  From the perspective of non channeling characters they would have never understand the OP enough to refer to it as a weave.

[skalors3]

My understanding is that the final chapter was 100% RJ.

[MarkDiLillo]

I agree we should not dump it all on BS since RJ was the one responsible for the DO vs Rand ending. If i had to make a guess i would bet that RJ mandated Egwenes death scene while leaving the details to BS

 

I agree, but the ultimate responsibility falls to the author.  RJ had some scenes written and some notes - it was Brandons job to integrate them into his work and make sure the ending came together smoothly.  There shouldn't be massive holes and a feeling that it was cobbled together cheaply.  A bad ending by design would be RJ's fault, but what we're looking at is clearly mostly on Brandon Sanderson.  His job may have been made more difficult by detailed notes of RJ forcing him to work within boundaries, but it still should have come together nicely.

[Callandora]

The ending is still from RJ tho the wording is BS of course

[fionwe1987]

 

Except that the end was RJs. It was his. He wrote that final chapter. Not just 37. It was specific that we were getting the end RJ intended.

 

Do we know actually what parts RJ physically wrote himself?  Lots of the ending was BS for certain.  A quick test to see if Brandon wrote the scene is to look for One Power usage described as "weaves" from the PoV of a non channeler.  We see that very often with BS and RJ never did that.  From the perspective of non channeling characters they would have never understand the OP enough to refer to it as a weave.

This is just not true. In KoD, we had a scene where Nynaeve acknowledges that Lan knew a lot about the OP. In aCoS, he knows right away that what Moghedien did to Nynaeve's boat was Balefire. He understood about Nynaeve's block, etc. When characters learn enough about something, there's no problem in them describing those things. And many characters who couldn't channel started learning about the OP and what it can do only late in the series. I think this is one of those cases where, yes, BRandon writes things differently, but those differences make sense.

[MarkDiLillo]

My understanding is that the final chapter was 100% RJ.

 

Hopefully we will know for sure soon.  There are parts I want to rip Brandon apart on and parts I am interested in knowing if its him because if they are him I'd like to applaud him.

[Callandora]

I remember a BS tweet regretting someones death and attempting to save that person but was shot down by team jordan, bet that person was Egwene

[fionwe1987]

I remember a BS tweet regretting someones death and attempting to save that person but was shot down by team jordan, bet that person was Egwene

Apparently that was Bela. Brandon wanted her alive, but Harriet shot that down.

[MarkDiLillo]

 

 

Except that the end was RJs. It was his. He wrote that final chapter. Not just 37. It was specific that we were getting the end RJ intended.

 

Do we know actually what parts RJ physically wrote himself?  Lots of the ending was BS for certain.  A quick test to see if Brandon wrote the scene is to look for One Power usage described as "weaves" from the PoV of a non channeler.  We see that very often with BS and RJ never did that.  From the perspective of non channeling characters they would have never understand the OP enough to refer to it as a weave.

This is just not true. In KoD, we had a scene where Nynaeve acknowledges that Lan knew a lot about the OP. In aCoS, he knows right away that what Moghedien did to Nynaeve's boat was Balefire. He understood about Nynaeve's block, etc. When characters learn enough about something, there's no problem in them describing those things. And many characters who couldn't channel started learning about the OP and what it can do only late in the series. I think this is one of those cases where, yes, BRandon writes things differently, but those differences make sense.

 

I didn't say anything about knowing what the one power can do or anything.  I simply said that RJ almost never had non-OP users refer to anything as a weave.  BS does regularly as if everyone is an Aes Sedai and familiar with weaving the OP.  The point isn't to complain about the difference; the point is to use this clear difference as one method to pick out the scenes Brandon wrote.

[Guest PiotrekS]

I remember a BS tweet regretting someones death and attempting to save that person but was shot down by team jordan, bet that person was Egwene

Apparently that was Bela. Brandon wanted her alive, but Harriet shot that down.

 

I like Brandon much more now.Killing Bela made no sense and wasted such a nice chance for little humour amid the carnage.

[Callandora]

Yes I agree killing Bela was a bad way to go, however and im guessing here I would bet that belas death was in RJ notes and Harriet preferred not to go contrary to his wishes

[MarkDiLillo]

I thought killing Bela was a very good move.  On one hand, it would have been nice to see Bela escape but the Bela dying moment was an emotional scene and really lent weight this conflict being the Last Battle.  It drove home that real loss was occuring in the story.

 

A small part, but I felt like it was actually a very crucial part in that chapter.  And I'm not just saying that because RJ wanted Bela to die...it only worked out to be a crucial sequence because Brandon wrote it well into the chapter.

[Werthead]

I'm hoping the 'RAFO' thing is done now. When people ask Brandon and other people questions, them answering back with 'RAFO' should be immediatley countered with, "Read what and find out?" I don't think the Enyclopedia is the best place for major elements left dangling fro AMoL to be answered.

[fionwe1987]

I'm hoping the 'RAFO' thing is done now. When people ask Brandon and other people questions, them answering back with 'RAFO' should be immediatley countered with, "Read what and find out?" I don't think the Enyclopedia is the best place for major elements left dangling fro AMoL to be answered.

I hope someone says that. Its sad to think RAFO has no meaning anymore.

[KakitaOCU]

No, what's really going to mess with people is after the Encyclopedia is out, after there are literally no more books coming. THEN Maria or Harriet or someone is going to RAFO people and watch their minds 'splode. :D

[Zefram]

JK Rowling beat him in that sense. I think she is the one who started the trend of killing fan-favorite pets/animals in order to make an impact in the story to make it "real" to show the consequences of the battle.
I just got the book and will start speed-reading it once I get off work in 2.5 hrs but I am guessing that Bela's death occured in midst of first major encounter in the battle as precursor to things to come. (ala Deathly Hallows owl)

 

I really wish that so many things were left unresolved - especially love stories and some finished storylines.
For example: Egwene bonding/marrying Gawin, Siuan taking Bryne as her Warder, same for Baldeine and her Asha'man Warder in 2 books before this one.

I personally feel it would have been far more major impact if for example Egwene and Gawin got together and died as they did during the battle at the same time not 2 books apart (except that Sanderson/Jordan team needed a parallel with Manetheren's Eldrene and Aemon so 2 book difference was made), it would have been better if Siuan for example confessed to Bryne as he lay dying or as she kills him trying to stop him because he is Compulsed or even took him as Warder right before the main battle not like a book or two in advance and when impact is lessened

 

As is most of minor storylines in tGS and ToM were resolved to "happy ending" and then in aMoL those "Happy ending" just got killed. It gives some sort of impact but books were left disjoined as if tGS and ToM were one trilogy and happy end see new trilogy and new trilogy just kills off the established characters in aMoL. Either "Happy End" and kill immediately, or do happy end after /during aMoL or do "die in love" sad ending without Happy ending.

I really didn't like what they did with 2 books different, what was a point of tying off those ending in previous books?

[Jnai]

I just wish someone could explain the ending to me. Why are they all so unconcerned when Rand's biggest enemy suddenly reanimates and walks away during his funeral? How could he possibly think that he would be left alone to wander the world? Wouldn't he be the most wanted man ever in existence?

[Zefram]

I just wish someone could explain the ending to me. Why are they all so unconcerned when Rand's biggest enemy suddenly reanimates and walks away during his funeral? How could he possibly think that he would be left alone to wander the world? Wouldn't he be the most wanted man ever in existence?

I believe I can answer that without even reading the book.

 

Did anyone other than Rand (and perhaps Nynaeve and Moraine), Forsaken and other DF's actually saw Moridin and knew he was one of the Forsaken other than one of multiple young men running around at the time?

[Jnai]

 

I just wish someone could explain the ending to me. Why are they all so unconcerned when Rand's biggest enemy suddenly reanimates and walks away during his funeral? How could he possibly think that he would be left alone to wander the world? Wouldn't he be the most wanted man ever in existence?

I believe I can answer that without even reading the book.

 

Did anyone other than Rand (and perhaps Nynaeve and Moraine), Forsaken and other DF's actually saw Moridin and knew he was one of the Forsaken other than one of multiple young men running around at the time?

 

Yes. For example, Flinn knows ("We don't know why the Lord Dragon would save one of the Forsaken, but it doesn't matter", p. 895). Nynaeve is seen complaining that Moridin will live while Rand dies to Loial. Presumably, Lan knows (he's present during the Loial Scene).

[neverspeakawordagain]

Yes. For example, Flinn knows ("We don't know why the Lord Dragon would save one of the Forsaken, but it doesn't matter", p. 895). Nynaeve is seen complaining that Moridin will live while Rand dies to Loial. Presumably, Lan knows (he's present during the Loial Scene).

 

That's a very limited universe of trusted people. I think Elayne can have a quiet chat with Nynaeve and Flinn and let that not be a problem. 

 

The only people who'd recognize Moridin and aren't either a) dead, or b) people who can be chilled out by Elayne / Min / Aviendha, are Graendal and Moghedien. Not too concerned with either of them. 

 

Yes, a foresaken escaped. Nobody knows what he looks like, however. 

[MrJade]

Yes. For example, Flinn knows ("We don't know why the Lord Dragon would save one of the Forsaken, but it doesn't matter", p. 895). Nynaeve is seen complaining that Moridin will live while Rand dies to Loial. Presumably, Lan knows (he's present during the Loial Scene)

 

That seems it then. They trust the Dragon. Especially since the new Amyrlin knows and would put the kibosh on anyone trying to kill him, as would Avi, Min, and Elayne, so we have the White Tower, the Aiel, a Queen of (two?) Nation(s), and the Truthspeaker of the Seanchan telling everyone to bugger off and leave this dude alone.

[MrJade]

Heretical double post.

[skalors3]

I'd say the only way they leave him unguarded is if they discovered that he couldn't channel after delving him. That isn't made clear at all though.

[Wolf505]

At least Bela went out well.  She saved Olver and the Horn of Valere, so in a way she saved the whole world by helping Olver recover the Horn from the Shadow.  So yeah, she died, but she went out like a real hero.