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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

neverspeakawordagain

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Everything posted by neverspeakawordagain

  1. Rand is now able to control reality the way other people control Tel'aran'rhiod. Learned in all that pattern-weaving practice he got with the Dark One. At least the take on it I had. And, honestly; if he can treat the real world the way Perrin can treat Tel'aran'rhiod, who needs channeling?
  2. Oh, and a major typsetting screwup: in Egwene's death scene, there's a break from her POV to Rand's, and the first line of Rand's POV is "Egwene was dead." This was printed right at the bottom of the right-hand page. So when you're reading the book two pages earlier, with your eyes at the bottom right, and you turn the page, the first thing your attention is immediately drawn to is the set-off words "Egwene was dead"... before you actually get a chance to read the two pages of Egwene POV explaining how that happened.
  3. I actually have to say that the whole "last goodbyes" series of scenes they did in the early goings kind of had my rolling my eyes. Yes, I understand the need for it, but having a few pages of Rand talk to Cadsuane; Egwene talk to the Aiel dreamwalkers; Rand talk to Elayne; Mat talk to Rand; etc. etc. seemed a bit... hokey. Good for narrative convenience purposes and fans not to scream, but blatantly obvious in what they were.
  4. No, I read it as Rand has a real ability that Moridin refuses to accept the truth of -- Moridin thinks it's smoke and mirrors because he's unwilling to accept the idea that Rand has actually leveled up.
  5. Unless Cadsuane gets herself released from the Oath Rod real soon now, she's not going to have time to question Rand on anything. In New Spring (set about 22 years before the last battle), she says "I could live another 30 years, or another 3." She's really in danger of dying at any moment. She's got a ton of information and a ton of skill; it would only make sense that they'd remove her from the oath rod so she can live longer, Then, of course, she could no longer be Amyrlin.
  6. No idea on how the thing actually occurred, but they all knew through the bond. They could feel him getting stronger and stronger through the bond.
  7. That's a very limited universe of trusted people. I think Elayne can have a quiet chat with Nynaeve and Flinn and let that not be a problem. The only people who'd recognize Moridin and aren't either a) dead, or b) people who can be chilled out by Elayne / Min / Aviendha, are Graendal and Moghedien. Not too concerned with either of them. Yes, a foresaken escaped. Nobody knows what he looks like, however.
  8. I think the easiest response to that one is the one Rand gave to Taim in LoC: The first prophecy was being born on the slopes of Dragonmount. Logain really, really wasn't.
  9. That's right, though very implausible. Given Egwene's death march up the side of the hill to face Taim (in which many more Aes Sedai die), it actually appears rather unlikely many Aes Sedai survived the battle at all. Which is odd given that no-one really seems worried about it later on. Well, comparatively few of any of the forces survived the battle -- I'd imagine that the vast majority of surviving Aes Sedai are Yellow Ajah, from Mayene. But even if there are only 100 or so total surviving Aes Sedai after the battle, there are still all those thousands of novices and accepted to re-flush the ranks.
  10. 1: Other than Moiraine (who comes back) and Ingtar (arguably), neither Rand nor Nynaeve ever have mentors / close confidants die on them in the series before the end. 2. Neither Rand (for basically the entire period between TDR and ToM) nor Nynaeve (for the entire series before ToM) are particularly sympathetic or especially likable characters. 3. Neither Rand nor Nynaeve are 8 year olds. But in fairness, I should probably bow out of this conversation; it's a bit beyond my ken. Outside of the Wheel of Time and the first book-and-change of ASoIaF, I've never read any fantasy, so I can't really make comparisons.
  11. Many of them. Romanda gets killed in an heartbeat -- it's literally a blink-and-you'll-miss-it moment. Siuan at least gets a paragraph or so when she dies.
  12. What did she do that was so moving? I always figured she was BA! She found Galad dying on the battlefield, and Travelled back to Mayene to see that he could be healed and brought to Berelain, burning herself out in the process.
  13. Talmanes, as far as I recall, did survive; he was leading most of Elayne's troops before Mat took general command last I remember. Tenobia died, Alsalam died, don't think we get any specifics on any of the other rulers (could be wrong on that). Rand's visions strongly imply that Eamond's Field is going to become a major city (on a level with Caemlyn). Flinn gets an arm ripped off but otherwise survives; IIRC, he's the only Asha'man we see in the epilogue. Narishma only gets mentioned once, briefly, if I can remember correctly, as being with Lan's people at Tarwin's Gap, and then doesn't get mentioned again, although, again, I could be wrong.
  14. Actually, I took the specific moment of glory being him overcoming his own doubts to shatter the Seals. If he hadn't, Rand would not have been able to hold off the Dark One indefinitely and would have been destroyed. So Logain is one of the several characters who can be said to have saved the world (along with Rand, Moiraine, Nynaeve, Olver, Perrin, Mat, Faile and - most convincingly in my view - Bela). I also don't see how Logain leading the Asha'man after the Last Battle is a storyline that could have been fitted into a narrative that ends immediately after the Last Battle. We see how it's going to happen and don't really need a lengthy sequence expanding on it. The part about breaking the seals could certainly work as well. And I absolutely didn't want to see any more about the Asha'man after the last battle; it wouldn't have fit. My only point was that, assuming that the "glory" prophecy was about the new Black Tower and not the seals, I just find it amusing that such a major prophecy would be about something that happens outside the series proper, in that that would be really unexpected (kind of how it was amusing the way the Sheriam / "golden halo" viewing was fulfilled). And, yes, totally agree about Bela.
  15. Oh, I know what happens to her. After I gave up on reading the books, I read the entire ASoIaF wiki page so I would know what ended up happening to all the characters. I just couldn't put myself through developing an emotional attachment to characters if I knew they were going to be treated so poorly; don't really have that problem if I'm just reading events on a wiki page rather than reading through the entire book to really get to know the characters.
  16. Yep. That's Logain's glory. Being a leader and a beacon of hope after the last battle (weird that that particular prophecy is something that's going be fulfilled offscreen after the series proper).
  17. Why on earth would it need to be an either/or situation. We have modern fantasy authors such as Bakker, Erikson and Rothfuss that are doing it well. That is wihtout even touching on people like Mervyn Peake, Gene Wolfe and John Crowley. Because, by definition, a fantasy series is more about plot than about literary style; otherwise, it wouldn't be a series. Coming back and revisiting characters, by definition, means that you're focusing on those characters or the world you've created rather than on prose style. The only solitary example I can think of where a truly great work of literature, which stands on its own terms as a masterpiece of language, had a sequel was Catch-22, with Closing Time. I honestly have no idea what to make of that one. I don't know a single person who's read Catch-22 and doesn't think it's one of the greatest books ever written. I don't know a single person who's read Closing Time, full stop. So that one's got me befuddled. But other than that, trying to imagine the existence of a sequel to Ulysses or The Grapes of Wrath or Pale Fire or Brave New World just doesn't make sense, because revisiting the same world or the same characters kind of defeats the point of the whole book.
  18. I walked away from ASoIaF in the beginning of the second book, when Yoren died. That was too much from me. Arya had lost her father, her sword teacher, and now the guy who was protecting her and taking her to the wall; heaping that much cruelty on a character was just too much for me to put up with in a fantasy series.
  19. "Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. And his destruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself." The best interpretation of this one, in my view, is that the Broken Wolf refers to Rodel Ituralde (whose nickname was the Wolf or the Little Wolf), who definitely "fell" (in the literal sense), and his conversion to the shadow (along with Brynne, Bashere, and Agelmar Jagad) certainly shook the will of the people. Galad gets to live happily ever after with Berelain (albeit with one arm and half his face missing), and the Children of the Light fight in the last battle, but nothing specifically happens with them (other than Dain Bornhald telling Perrin about how Fain was the one who killed his family, seemingly solely to be a jerk).
  20. When Rand crossed the Dragonwall, he had seven clans and four hundred eighty thousand spears. The four clans that didn't join him until after that probably brought that total up to about 700,000, but they weren't marching in full force of all the spears of the clans. Given losses since FoH, and adding in reserves brought in from the Waste for the Last Battle, I don't think that one million Aiel is an unreasonable number. The numbers aren't just pulled from thin air; I mean, You can go take a look at the FAQ: http://wotfaq.dragonmount.com/node/136 That's all stuff pulled from the text.
  21. From my favorite author, a quote you'll probably enjoy: "Some people -- and I am one of them -- hate happy ends. We feel cheated. Harm is the norm. Doom should not jam. The avalanche stoppin its tracks a few feet above the cowering village behaves not only unnaturally but unethically." -- Vladimir Nabokov. For "great literature," however you define that, I think that idea holds. But for The Wheel of Time -- which is, at its core, a children's story; I started reading it at age 15 when A Crown of Swords came out, and I already felt I was too old for the series -- it doesn't. This story is written in the tradition of medieval romance tales like the Arthurian legends and the works of the Pearl Poet, where virtue is always rewarded and vice is always punished. The Wheel of Time is, at its core, an extremely, almost unimaginably detailed world created to house a simple morality tale. Under those circumstances, disliking a character isn't just a good reason to want them dead; it's basically the only reason.
  22. Real life does not have happy endings. Entertainment like the Wheel of Time exists to allow us to vicariously believe that happy endings are possible. If I want to read stories of good people dying, I'll look in a newspaper. That said, I totally wouldn't have minded Faile dying, because she was a terrible, terrible character.
  23. See, to me, that was a very clear example of Moridin refusing to believe that Rand could possibly be as powerful as Rand actually was, and Moridin making up some kind of logical explanation in his own mind for something to keep himself from having to face the truth.
  24. Ah. Well, I guess, if I'm reading something for prose style, then I'm reading Nabokov, not a fantasy novel. Hinderstap was terrible, but I took that as BS' growing pains on writing Mat, which he got better with as time went by but never quite mastered. As to the Egwene stuff; agree to disagree -- I loved the White Tower reunification, and Egwene was easily my favorite female character in the last three books, after having mostly been indifferent to her earlier in the series. Her death really, really pained me in aMoL, because she was really the only female character I truly hoped would live to see the other side of the last battle -- I much rather would have seen Nynaeve, Cadsuane, Aviendha, Elayne, and Tuon die in the most ignoble ways possible than see Egwene die.
  25. I think you're forgetting that before aMoL even started, much of the population had most likely starved to death. Remember what happened in Bandar Eben before Rand came back there and fixed their food supply; that type of thing was most likely happening all over the continent, in places Rand didn't end up getting to. One problem with the book as written was that we didn't quite get the proper scale of the battle; my impression is that, before the fighting actually starts on the four fronts, there should have cumulatively been about 8 million or so lightside soldiers on the field. That would include about 4 million trained soldiers and almost as many again cannon fodder -- based on the idea that there were about 400,000 borderlanders from Far Madding, at least as many as that again from the actual borderlands, about a million Aiel (based on numbers from FoH), and probably another million combined between Andor, Cairhien, Altara, Tear, Illian, the Legion of the Dragon, Perrin's forces, Murandy, the Band of the Red Hand, the Ogier, etc.; and about another million Seanchan). BS didn't really do a good job of conveying numbers like that on the field, but that's what there really were.
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