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Moiraine's kesiera in Fires of Heaven


michellem
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I know it's widely agreed on that Moiraine's kesiera is nothing but a pretty blue stone (wich she says herself in Eye of the World), that she sometimes uses as a focal point for eavesdropping. But I have searched and searched on the net and stil haven't found someone properly adress this from The Fires of Heaven, chapter 51.

 

First, on page 794 in my version:

 

"Moiraine glanced at the medallion dismissively. The small blue stone hanging on her forehead seemed to catch the light and glow, though the angles were wrong."

 

And then five pages later:

 

"That blue stone on her forehead was catching the light again."

 

I haven't noticed this before, but I recently discussed this matter with a friend of mine here and I think that's why it jumped out at me. The part these sentences are taken from are the day before Moiraine "dies"/disappears into the ter'angreal leading to the Aelfinns. She is described as wearing her best clothes, jewelry and also her kesiera that day; and when found in ToM she has lost all that. So in other words, the second last time we see the kesiera, it's made special effort to point out that it catches the light in an unnatural way.

 

Does anyone make up or down of this? I have no ideas, other than that I know it is not an *ngreal of any type, since Moiraine says straight in EotW that it is just a pretty stone. But why it's glowing like that, I don't know. It's not like she can use it for eavesdropping when she's in the room with Rand.

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I've noticed that as well on my re-reads.  I don't have a clue.

 

Though, there is this in the interview database:

Interview: Apr 21st, 2012 yks

Moiraine's blue stone is a dig at Marion Zimmer Bradley.

Harriet McDougal Rigney

When RJ was working on the first Conan book, he got the movie script and was told to stick as close to it as possible (though he did alter some things and later got approached with "man, I HATE what they did to your book"). After the book was published and the movie out, he one day got a letter from Marion Zimmer Bradley threatening to sue RJ for copyright infringement because one of his characters had a (blue) stone hanging on her forehead. RJ then sent a letter back referring her to the studios and the original script in which the stone appeared. The lawsuit never happened and Moiraine has a blue stone on her forehead.

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It's after Rand has had a meeting with Cairhien nobles, when Moiraine, Egwene and Avihenda meets with him. Mat is also there (and Asmo). They are just talking, so I cannot see what kind of channeling she uses. It's a Rand POV and he doesn't mention goosebumps of any kind either. It just doesn't make sense!

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By Moiraine's own (bound to the truth) statement, it's just a pretty blue stone. Perhaps she was channeling to cause the stone to refract the light in wierd ways, or perhaps its simply a wierd refraction property of the gem--more likely though this was all just part of Jordan's lyrical description of Moiraine at that period in the text--mysterious and fey and Aes Sedai to her toenails.

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I know it's widely agreed on that Moiraine's kesiera is nothing but a pretty blue stone (wich she says herself in Eye of the World), that she sometimes uses as a focal point for eavesdropping. But I have searched and searched on the net and stil haven't found someone properly adress this from The Fires of Heaven, chapter 51.

 

First, on page 794 in my version:

 

"Moiraine glanced at the medallion dismissively. The small blue stone hanging on her forehead seemed to catch the light and glow, though the angles were wrong."

 

And then five pages later:

 

"That blue stone on her forehead was catching the light again."

 

I haven't noticed this before, but I recently discussed this matter with a friend of mine here and I think that's why it jumped out at me. The part these sentences are taken from are the day before Moiraine "dies"/disappears into the ter'angreal leading to the Aelfinns. She is described as wearing her best clothes, jewelry and also her kesiera that day; and when found in ToM she has lost all that. So in other words, the second last time we see the kesiera, it's made special effort to point out that it catches the light in an unnatural way.

 

Does anyone make up or down of this? I have no ideas, other than that I know it is not an *ngreal of any type, since Moiraine says straight in EotW that it is just a pretty stone. But why it's glowing like that, I don't know. It's not like she can use it for eavesdropping when she's in the room with Rand.

I've noticed that before, and as we saw in EoTW, she claims that her staff isn't special, that it was merely a focal point for her channeling, but then we see her use it to cut through the halves of the way gate and to fight off Machin Shin.  There's been other hints about the angles being wrong on her stone and that it glints when it shouldn't.  She used it to eavesdrop and alludes to it being a trick she learned before she went to Tar Valon.  Then we have to balance all this by seeing her cousin Caroline with a green stone, so it is a Carhienien tradition for women, though those two and only 1 other of all the Carhienien nobles are seen to wear it iirc.  RJ didn't drop hints for nothing.  Perhaps this is a Ter'angreal somehow that made its way to her hands, part of one of those Ter'angreal Jewelry sets.  There were many empty spaces in the one box the girls find other pieces in indicating many more pieces of different purposes are still unknown.  Is there anything from RJ telling us it isn't? 

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I've noticed that before, and as we saw in EoTW, she claims that her staff isn't special, that it was merely a focal point for her channeling, but then we see her use it to cut through the halves of the way gate and to fight off Machin Shin.

 

The staff didn't cut throught the Waygate, Moiraine did, using the staff as a concentration aid. The staff like the stone is exactly as she said them to be.

 

 

There's been other hints about the angles being wrong on her stone and that it glints when it shouldn't.  She used it to eavesdrop and alludes to it being a trick she learned before she went to Tar Valon.  Then we have to balance all this by seeing her cousin Caroline with a green stone, so it is a Carhienien tradition for women, though those two and only 1 other of all the Carhienien nobles are seen to wear it iirc.  RJ didn't drop hints for nothing.  Perhaps this is a Ter'angreal somehow that made its way to her hands, part of one of those Ter'angreal Jewelry sets.  There were many empty spaces in the one box the girls find other pieces in indicating many more pieces of different purposes are still unknown.  Is there anything from RJ telling us it isn't?

 

Yes. RJ has Moiraine state it's nothing but a pretty blue stone, under oath. Based on Elayne's tests in tPoD there is no way Moiraine could have remained unaware of her stone being a ter'angreal whilst channeling through it at the same time.

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I checked EotW yesterday and she states clearly that "this is just a pretty blue stone" the first time she helps Egwene touch the source.

 

I don't understand what RJ was up to. He makes it clear this is just a piece of jewelry, and then makes it behave strangely.

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I checked EotW yesterday and she states clearly that "this is just a pretty blue stone" the first time she helps Egwene touch the source.

 

I don't understand what RJ was up to. He makes it clear this is just a piece of jewelry, and then makes it behave strangely.

 

All gems have a different refractive index, and thus glint at different angles. It is not strange for one type of gem to glint at angles at odds with others.

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But why point it out like it's something special?

Exactly. I've always found that part strange too, considering the RJ virtually NEVER did anything without a reason.

 

The staff I dismiss, since it only appears in the 1st book. Many things that he did in a certain way in the 1st book, he changed thereafter. Maybe Moiraine's claim from the 1st book is just another of those "version 1, changed later" things?

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Allot of gemstones catch the light or reflect it, there is nothing unnatural about that. As for why point it out, Jordan have pointed out allot of things about the character's dress, jewelry and hairstyle, gone into extreme details at times so I do not see this as out of place. It might be something unusual about Mo's stone, but it can also just be a normal stone reflecting the light.

 

Do we know what sort of mineral Moiraine's stone is made of by the way?

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But why point it out like it's something special?

 

He didn't. This shows no greater poetic licence than many of his descriptions, especially of the archetypal characters like Moiraine, dating right back to his initial description of her where he waxed poetic with Rand's perceptions of her height.

 

That being said, this scene, contextually, was about pointing out Moiraine as something special. Moiraine was about to sacrifice herself for Rand. Everything about that scene was to lend a sense of awe to act, right down to Rand describing her as the most Aes Sedai he'd ever seen her.

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I thought she used it to aid in concentrating for her eavesdropping spell. There is a scene with Rand and Asomdean talking and then Egwene entering Moiraine's room and the stone fading, which always read to me like how she knew about Asmodean.

 

That is how I see it to, she uses it as a focus and the stone might glow when she uses it for that purpose but the magick is hers it is not in the stone. Do she not use her stone when she is first teaching Egwene how to channel as well, she make her stone glow and then Egwene manages to give it one slight glow right at the end, that was the two channelers creating the glow not the stone itself, it was just a focus.

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I thought she used it to aid in concentrating for her eavesdropping spell. There is a scene with Rand and Asomdean talking and then Egwene entering Moiraine's room and the stone fading, which always read to me like how she knew about Asmodean.

 

That is how I see it to, she uses it as a focus and the stone might glow when she uses it for that purpose but the magick is hers it is not in the stone. Do she not use her stone when she is first teaching Egwene how to channel as well, she make her stone glow and then Egwene manages to give it one slight glow right at the end, that was the two channelers creating the glow not the stone itself, it was just a focus.

 

 

 

 

I thought she used it to aid in concentrating for her eavesdropping spell. There is a scene with Rand and Asomdean talking and then Egwene entering Moiraine's room and the stone fading, which always read to me like how she knew about Asmodean.

 

That is how I see it to, she uses it as a focus and the stone might glow when she uses it for that purpose but the magick is hers it is not in the stone. Do she not use her stone when she is first teaching Egwene how to channel as well, she make her stone glow and then Egwene manages to give it one slight glow right at the end, that was the two channelers creating the glow not the stone itself, it was just a focus

 

yeah moraine also reprimands egwene when she thinks that they hold the OP Edited by Durinax
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RJ had a habit of describing "non-special stuff" in great detail. Furniture in various places, clothes, food, whatever. Partly maybe just a stylistic thing and partly maybe to obscure bits of foreshadowing that he hid among the interminable descriptions. I don't think there's anything special about the stone except that Moiraine had a habit of using the stone as focus. it's not a well or anything.
Maybe, it will turn up somewhere as a clue or plot element. As in Moiraine will find some random person wearing the stone and say "WTF how did that get to you?" Or we (readers) will find a description of somebody else wearing that stone and know they have a Finnland connection. But the stone itself isn't special.

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I think that it was to catch our eyes and remember moraine due to the stone because of the foreshadowing that she was not really dead.  There is one specific dream where Eggy describes Thom reaching into a fire to pull out that stone.

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  • 1 month later...

I think that it was to catch our eyes and remember moraine due to the stone because of the foreshadowing that she was not really dead.  There is one specific dream where Eggy describes Thom reaching into a fire to pull out that stone.

When did Thom do so?

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I think that it was to catch our eyes and remember moraine due to the stone because of the foreshadowing that she was not really dead.  There is one specific dream where Eggy describes Thom reaching into a fire to pull out that stone.

When did Thom do so?

TOM (spoiler) when he, Mat and Noel Charin go to ToG to rescue MO from the 'finns.

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