The aMoL 'Memories of Light' Releases

[herid]

I like today's memory.

 

@fionwe yes, I mostly agree. In fact, for me the most jarring thing coming to Rand from LTT was something that happened before VoG, not after. There is a moment in tGS, ch 42 when LTT says that he likes Weiramon because he is honest. I find this comment extremely weird and completely out of character. LTT was crazy but not stupid. He was never shown to be a bad judge of character before.

 

I know what you mean in a way but I think there's a lot of (very intentional) cross-over in TGS. There has always been cross-over, like Lews Therin thinking about growing up in the Two Rivers, and Rand thinking about orchards and whatnot. Lews Therin has, in addition, also been an expression of Rand's subconscious thoughts. Why did Rand tolerate Weiramon? Perhaps there was something about Weiramon's (albeit fake) flattery that fed Rand's ego. I don't think it's very helpful to think of the voice as being a true manifestation of Lews Therin's personality, especially considering the guy was only crazy for a day or three.

 

Rand being philosophical is not precisely the problem, though the idea that it's somehow more a part of his character than it is a part of Rand's is contradicted by Rand's statements to Moridin in the TGS dream. The problem is him randomly assigning motivations to things that 1) don't make much sense and 2) don't really require explanation in the first place. As a person said above, it is indeed reminiscent of Richard Rahl, and I don't see how this kind of thing coming from Rand somehow makes it better.

good point about the crossover but it still feels wrong to me because Rand himself never thought much of Weiramon. In the very same scene he is thinking quite contemptuously of him.

 

"Oh, blood and ashes, no!" Cadsuane said, spinning on them. "No, no, no."

Given the highly  atypical swearing this is a reaction to something dire. A wild guess:  The fact that she is spinning might mean that her back was to whoever "them" are and she just sensed something using  her ter'angreal.

[BFG]

Actually , this is arguably one time when 'blood and ashes' instead of 'blood and bloody ashes' may conceivably work without breaking the 4th wall.

 

First it sounds like she's in a rush, shortening what you say when in a rush is more realistic than otherwise.

 

Second, Elayne is another character that doesn't know how to swear (in her case because of upbringing, with Cads we simply don't hear her swear).

 

LoC Spears and Shield

"Oh, blood and ashes," Elayne muttered, or tried to. Everything after "oh" came out a strangled croak around the fist stuffed in her mouth. Lini said remarks like that were the sign of a slow mind and a dull wit – right before washing your mouth out – but sometimes nothing else could sum up your feelings in as few words. She would have said more, but had no chance.

 

[herid]

@BFG, sorry, by atypical I meant that it's very unusual for Cadusane  to swear (has she ever?), not the particular curse used.

[Sid]

People say 'blood and ashes' quite frequently throughout the series.  Much more frequently than 'blood and bloody ashes' by far.

 

Some people say it with not a lot of provocation, like Mat for instance, and when he's really incredulous he adds the extra 'bloody' to it for emphasis. 

 

In Cadsuane's case, merely saying 'blood and ashes' tells us that something incredibly horrifying is probably happening. 

[mbuehner]

or remarkably frustrating.

[BFG]

@Herid and Sid - that's my interpretation as well, as I said I'm genuinely looking forward to reading this bit, I'm pretty sure this is going to be from the Last Battle chapter, probably signifying a 'blaze of glory'.

 

@Herid - I've mis-read a few comments today, apologies.

[yoniy0]

It seems to me that her reaction is for something that's already happened and can't be undone, but not something utterly catastrophic. What about if someone Bonded her without asking?

[BFG]

@yoniyo - I thought one of her ter'angreal worked like Mats? Could an Ashaman actually do that? I quite like the idea tho.

[Suttree]

@yoniyo - I thought one of her ter'angreal worked like Mats? Could an Ashaman actually do that? I quite like the idea tho.

No they couldn't, unless she was surprised somehow without the ter'angreal on. We have never seen here without it in the series and it is known to always be on her person.

[Terez]

People say 'blood and ashes' quite frequently throughout the series.  Much more frequently than 'blood and bloody ashes' by far.

 

Right, it's "bloody ashes" that's weird.

[Finnssss22]

@yoniyo - I thought one of her ter'angreal worked like Mats? Could an Ashaman actually do that? I quite like the idea tho.

No they couldn't, unless she was surprised somehow without the ter'angreal on. We have never seen here without it in the series and it is known to always be on her person.

 

Do we have any actual evidence of it working on saidin though?

I mean, we know that she has captured many male channelers and it's assumed that her ter'angreal was a factor in her successes but, as far as I can recall, we have never seen it work on a saidin weave yet.

 

I'm not arguing that it doesn't, just pointing out the possibility.

 

With Mat's, we at least have actual proof of it working on saidin,

[mbuehner]

Ok, is it time for the probably pointless grammatical diagnosis?

 

 

""Oh, blood and ashes, no!" Cadsuane said, spinning on them. "No, no, no."

 

Lets start with the first clause- "Oh, blood and ashes, no!"  that's a different statement than

"Oh blood and ashes, no!", which sounds more frightened to my ear. Or

"Oh, blood and ashes. No!" which  is a command.

 

So what's here, to my taste, is frustration. "blood and ashes" I take as an aside, given that its set off in italics.

Truncated:

"Oh, no! No, no, no."

 

Now: "Cadsuane said, spinning on them."  Lets consider what she is NOT doing- weaving fire, embracing the source, etc. If this was an emergency, that space between phrases where she is spinning around is critical time wasted. Of course she might not have been able to respond that quickly and would attempt something after this sentence, but that might be late in coming.

 

Anyway, taken all together, I read this as someone either making a suggesting that UTTERLY exacerbates Cadsuane.

I'm thinking of this line from the Hobbit:

 

"Good gracious heavens, no, no, NO, NO!" said Gandalf. "Don't be a fool Mr. Baggins if you can help it; and in the name of all wonder don't mention the word furrier again as long as you are within a hundred miles of his house, nor, rug, cape, tippet, muff, nor any other such unfortunate word!

 

But maybe its just because i love that line, heh.

[yoniy0]

Do we have any actual evidence of it working on saidin though?

No, they're right. It's a Breaking-era creation; it would guard against saidin if it would do anything at all.

 

Still a chance that she parted with it, for some reason, but that's pie-in-the-sky.

[Sid]

yoniy0 beat me to it.  Guarding against saidin would be first and foremost on the reasons to add it to the paralis net during the Breaking

[Suttree]

 

@yoniyo - I thought one of her ter'angreal worked like Mats? Could an Ashaman actually do that? I quite like the idea tho.

No they couldn't, unless she was surprised somehow without the ter'angreal on. We have never seen here without it in the series and it is known to always be on her person.

 

Do we have any actual evidence of it working on saidin though?

I mean, we know that she has captured many male channelers and it's assumed that her ter'angreal was a factor in her successes but, as far as I can recall, we have never seen it work on a saidin weave yet.

 

I'm not arguing that it doesn't, just pointing out the possibility.

 

With Mat's, we at least have actual proof of it working on saidin,

As others said it was a breaking era device that certainly would have had saidin protection as the first feature.

 

We also have this from RJ...

 

Interview: Oct 4th, 2005

Robert Jordan's Blog: ONE MORE TIME

Robert Jordan

For Krassos, yes, a channeler could still channel wearing Mat's amulet. Cadsuane has one much like it. And I think that I will complete "Trust" eventually. I think about doing so every now and then.

[Finnssss22]

Do we have any actual evidence of it working on saidin though?

No, they're right. It's a Breaking-era creation; it would guard against saidin if it would do anything at all.

 

Still a chance that she parted with it, for some reason, but that's pie-in-the-sky.

 

Like I said, I'm not arguing against it, I'm just pointing out that we have not actually seen it work against saidin yet.

[acmeraptor]

Do we have any actual evidence of it working on saidin though?

No, they're right. It's a Breaking-era creation; it would guard against saidin if it would do anything at all.

 

Still a chance that she parted with it, for some reason, but that's pie-in-the-sky.

 

Like I said, I'm not arguing against it, I'm just pointing out that we have not actually seen it work against saidin yet.

 

There was a scene where she was just itching for Rand to try something with saidin against her and didn't seem too worried about the prospect.  Proof enough for me that she knows direct contact of flows would melt away just like with Mat.

[Finnssss22]

Do we have any actual evidence of it working on saidin though?

No, they're right. It's a Breaking-era creation; it would guard against saidin if it would do anything at all.

 

Still a chance that she parted with it, for some reason, but that's pie-in-the-sky.

 

Like I said, I'm not arguing against it, I'm just pointing out that we have not actually seen it work against saidin yet.

 

There was a scene where she was just itching for him to try something withe saidin against her and didn't seem too worried about the prospect.  Proof enough for me that she knows direct contact of flows would melt away just like with Mat.

 

I know but it's still an assumption, a very good asumption but an assumption at this point none the less.

That is ALL I'm saying.

[yoniy0]

Oh, what was I thinking, it's so obvious:

Rand made up his mind. "Cadsuane Melaidhrin is my wife. Cadsuane Melaidhrin is my wife. Cadsuane Melaidhrin is my wife."

"Oh, blood and ashes, no!" Cadsuane said, spinning on them. "No, no, no."

[acmeraptor]

Oh, what was I thinking, it's so obvious:

Rand made up his mind. "Cadsuane Melaidhrin is my wife. Cadsuane Melaidhrin is my wife. Cadsuane Melaidhrin is my wife."

"Oh, blood and ashes, no!" Cadsuane said, spinning on them. "No, no, no."

 

While he may be physically younger, he's probably in her age range of maturity now.  Can't see her being so against it..unless she's got a pillow friend in the room who's about to get real catty.

[TheAngryDruid]

I concur with those saying that anything that has Cadsuane swearing portends something dire. And probably immediate/imminent as well. Some dire in the distance wouldn't cause Cadsuane to come unglued like that. Heck, something dire happening all around her hasn't done it in the past: Fain's bubble of weirdness and monsters out of mist and the Dragon Reborn lying gravely wounded at her feet. This must be BAD.

[Vels]

I think Cadsuane is just finally fed up with the conversation going on behind her. They have been prattling on while Cadsuane had been getting more and more frustrated. The group behind finally reach a decision - one that Cadsuane doesn't agree on. That is the last straw for Cadsuane and their foolishness...

[Centauri25]

Getting this crew to allow for any ambiguity is an exercise in futility. There will be great wailing and gnashing of teeth when something that seemed SOOOOOOO sure turns out to be wrong in AMOL.

 

Finss - you are correct that we do not have proof positive. Others have a strong circumstantial case, but no videotape. 

 

As for the quote - sounds like her typical condescension at work here. 

[Suttree]

For Centauri and Finnssss.

 

Do we have any reason to suspect it doesn't? I understand what you are getting at, just not sure why you feel it is important to drive that point home when you don't even believe it yourselves. Mat's medallion stops weaves from both sides of the op and RJ says she has one just like it. That backed up with the textual hints is as close to a slam dunk as you get.

[Centauri25]

RJ said she has one much like it. To me there is a difference between "much like" and "exactly like". As for why I would make the distinction, maybe it is because I am a CPA and that is how we roll. But more likely, it is because as I mentioned I expect some huge twist that flip what we think we know on its head. I am approaching AMOL with trepidation on that point - I expect epic surprises, not same old same old.