Which main character should die (if any)?

[Terez]

Yes sir, Mr Sutt.

 

 

Fish

 

Somehow missed that...could you post a quote? Cheers Fish!

 

It doesn't exist.

[The Fisher King]

Uhhh...Im sorry, Terez?? If youre going to clIm that then Im afraid youre please going to have to explain to me then why for years and years my understanding has been:

 

Lews Therin = Rand

 

Iyllena Sunhair = Elayne Trakand

 

??

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

Fish

[Suttree]

Uhhh...Im sorry, Terez?? If youre going to clIm that then Im afraid youre please going to have to explain to me then why for years and years my understanding has been:

 

Lews Therin = Rand

 

Iyllena Sunhair = Elayne Trakand

 

??

 

 

Thank you.

 

 

Fish

 

Sorry Fish but we have three knowledgeable people here claiming they know nothing about it. You need to provide proof my friend, that's how it works.

[DaoineSidhe]

I don't necessarily disagree with you, Fish, about Elayne being Ilyena reborn. The evidence does seem to hint that way. However, when you have said it's been confirmed, and someone asks for evidence of this confirmation, stating that this has been your understanding for years to be the case is not that confirmation. Confirmation would be a quote from the "Voices of Canon", ie RJ, BS, Harriet, or others who are making statements as directed to by them, or in the form of some singular plot confirmation. My understanding for a very long time was that Taim was Demandred, due to the way LTT went on rants in Rand's head against Demandred whenever he was near Taim. However, this wasn't confirmation. Such thoughts based on soft evidence is speculation, which, while entertaining, cannot be construed as confirmation.

 

Back on topic...

 

The more I think about it, I think Nynaeve is probably going to die, no matter how much I don't want her to. I feel like Lan HAS to die in this last book. And Nynaeve without Lan just would be... strange. In addition, she wasn't originally part of the TR "kids" escaping from the TR to find adventure, etc. She was a caretaker of those "kids", and it was her role to protect them. This role will be fulfilled to its utmost in her sacrificing herself for one of them, probably either Rand or Mat (whom she's had the most interaction with, and whom she owes the most to).

 

Edit: Suttree beat me to my first point while I was adding my bit trying to stay on topic... Doh..

[The Fisher King]

Oh I readily understand I may have been wrong all these years! Of course, this may mean LTT is not Rand reborn after all as well.

 

I never bought Olver being Gaidal or Egwene being Letrasa Petrone but I would have SWORN Illyena was Elayne!

 

Edit to ask - so noone else ever thought that connection besides me? Terez?

 

 

Fish

[Sid]

Illyena's name is a lot like Elayne, and the surname Sunhair sounds like Elayne, but I cannot remember any quotes to verify that she is Illyena reborn. I thought this too when I was reading initially, and I think I even asked this question back on Stonedog's forum a long time ago. I seem to remember some of the more prolific posters back then actually had evidence that the opposite was true, but I can't remember if it was an actual quote from RJ, or something from one of the super old FAQ's. Whatever it was, it was compelling enough for me to abandon the notion.

[Neophyte]

Yes, I've seen quite a bit of speculation in that direction over the years, but no confirmation. Actually, I can't remember seeing anything authoritative either for or against the notion. I personally find it a little ... treacly ... but I certainly wouldn't rule it out.

[The Fisher King]

Ok, thanks you guys. Yeah - kinda what I figured.

 

 

Fish

[msa]

Lan's thrown up so many death flags that actually killing him would be pretty silly. Despite the fact he's been wanting to die for around twenty years or so, Nynaeve is doing her best to make sure it doesn't happen. Otherwise he actually would have ridden for Tarwin's Gap all by his lonesome. By this point, I think it's a red herring - he'll wind up survivng the whole ordeal because everyone already assumes he's Trolloc bait.

 

At least one of the three leads will die, though I fully expect some shenanigans involving Rand.

[Valley of Death]

I dont mind who dies as long as Rand, Matt, Perrin, Avienda, Amys, Gaul and Chiad live with Bain dead or maybe the other way around is more fitting for Aiel humor. Gawn needs to die, hes just a main side character that nobody will miss. Elayne will probably die doing something foolish. Nyneave will give up her life to resurrect Rand. Egwene will die because her story line is pretty much done. She reunited the tower and made it stronger and she isn't really needed after the LB.

[FarShainMael]

Oh I readily understand I may have been wrong all these years! Of course, this may mean LTT is not Rand reborn after all as well.

 

I never bought Olver being Gaidal or Egwene being Letrasa Petrone but I would have SWORN Illyena was Elayne!

 

Edit to ask - so noone else ever thought that connection besides me? Terez?

 

 

Fish

 

There's an entire thread about it here:

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/46321-ilyena-is-she-reborn-or-not/

 

Personally, no I don't think Elayne is Ilyena, and I posted about that on the thread. What I think may be the clincher here is that the LTT-voice never went into spasms of guilty weeping at the sight of Elayne.

[Elisaroth]

all main's dies and live happily in TAR. Btw im quite sure mat is aredy part of hero's of horn because names finns gave him , Gambler, Trickster, Son of battles.

 

Anyway i hope to see before end big grate generals showdown. Davram Bashere, Rodel Ituralde, Gareth Bryne, Agelmar Jagad (i dont think he show up tho from fal dara) and Mat who impress all 4 before XD.

 

[FarShainMael]

Good point about Mat!

[b3arz3rg3r]

I wonder if we could institute a 1$ fine for everytime someone calls Mat Matt. We could probably end world hunger within a year with the money.

[FarShainMael]

Dyslexics and other-language speakers should be exempt.

[Elisaroth]

I wonder if we could institute a 1$ fine for everytime someone calls Mat Matt. We could probably end world hunger within a year with the money.

lol that was typo XD.

[FanoLan]

Hopefully RJ Aes-Sedai'd everyone with his talk of outriggers and Mat is put of his misery. The long slow decline does not suit him well.

[Bastor]

Wheel brakes. Everyone and everything dies.

 

Called it.... ^_^

 

 

Seriously though - Lan will indeed die and Nyn will either cure death somehow or go berserk. Either I am fine with.

[sleepinghour]

Illyena's name is a lot like Elayne, and the surname Sunhair sounds like Elayne, but I cannot remember any quotes to verify that she is Illyena reborn. I thought this too when I was reading initially, and I think I even asked this question back on Stonedog's forum a long time ago. I seem to remember some of the more prolific posters back then actually had evidence that the opposite was true, but I can't remember if it was an actual quote from RJ, or something from one of the super old FAQ's. Whatever it was, it was compelling enough for me to abandon the notion.

 

He had never met a woman named Ilyena in his life. But he could summon up a face for the name, dimly; a pretty face, skin like cream, golden hair exactly the shade of Elayne’s.

 

Which doesn't necessarily mean anything, seeing as Rand only has the height in common with LTT, but some people took it as a hint that Elayne might be Ilyena reborn. As far as I know, RJ never said anything for or against Elayne being Ilyena, and the FAQs were written by fans, so they're no more reliable than anything else found online.

 

RJ did indirectly disprove the theory that Min's Ilyena. Ilyena was an Aes Sedai, which means she'd have the ability to channel when reborn as well. RJ also said souls can't be split (some people speculated that Ilyena's soul had been split between Rand's three women).

[Terez]

Illyena's name is a lot like Elayne, and the surname Sunhair sounds like Elayne, but I cannot remember any quotes to verify that she is Illyena reborn. I thought this too when I was reading initially, and I think I even asked this question back on Stonedog's forum a long time ago. I seem to remember some of the more prolific posters back then actually had evidence that the opposite was true, but I can't remember if it was an actual quote from RJ, or something from one of the super old FAQ's. Whatever it was, it was compelling enough for me to abandon the notion.

 

The best arguments against it IMO are that physical appearance and names do not usually bear any resemblance to each other across incarnations. See Rand and Lews Therin. The names are not similar at all, and the only physical characteristic they share is height.

 

If you want a strong connection between Elayne and Ilyena, though, this is probably the best one:

 

The corridor was doubly familiar, once for having seen it before, once for having seen something similar.

 

I walked this way with Elayne and Gawyn the day I met Morgase. The thought slithered painfully along the boundaries of the Void. He was cold in there, without emotion. Saidin raged and burned, but he was icy calm.

 

And another thought, like a stab. She lay on a floor like this, her golden hair spread as though sleeping. Ilyena Sunhair. My Ilyena.

 

Elaida had been there that day, too. She Foretold the pain I'd bring. She knew the darkness in me. Some of it. Enough.

 

Ilyena, I did not know what I was doing. I was mad! I am mad. Oh, Ilyena!

 

Elaida knew – some – but she did not tell even all of that. Better if she had told.

 

Oh, Light, is there no forgiveness? I did what I did in madness. Is there no mercy?

 

Gareth Bryne would have killed me, had he known. Morgase would have ordered my death. Morgase would be alive, perhaps. Elayne's mother alive. Aviendha alive. Mat. Moiraine. How many alive, if I had died?

 

I have earned my torment. I deserve the final death. Oh, Ilyena, I deserve death.

 

I deserve death.

[thisguy]

Slightly off topic, but for some reason your quote woke the thought in me, how horrible has Morgase's life been the last several months? It's mentioned but really doesn't do it justice - forced under compulsion to have sex with one of the forsaken and then Valda has his way with her. Pretty f-ing disgusting, really.

[Tenesmus]

If this was done correctly, every main charecter would die. Each death would be a meaningful sacrifice that acts as a puzzle piece that builds on the previous death and lays the foundation for the next death, so that when the final charectar dies it is the coup de grace that brings about the ultimate defeat of the DO. THE END

[XoMeltdownoX]

Illyena's name is a lot like Elayne, and the surname Sunhair sounds like Elayne, but I cannot remember any quotes to verify that she is Illyena reborn. I thought this too when I was reading initially, and I think I even asked this question back on Stonedog's forum a long time ago. I seem to remember some of the more prolific posters back then actually had evidence that the opposite was true, but I can't remember if it was an actual quote from RJ, or something from one of the super old FAQ's. Whatever it was, it was compelling enough for me to abandon the notion.

 

He had never met a woman named Ilyena in his life. But he could summon up a face for the name, dimly; a pretty face, skin like cream, golden hair exactly the shade of Elayne’s.

 

Which doesn't necessarily mean anything, seeing as Rand only has the height in common with LTT, but some people took it as a hint that Elayne might be Ilyena reborn. As far as I know, RJ never said anything for or against Elayne being Ilyena, and the FAQs were written by fans, so they're no more reliable than anything else found online.

 

RJ did indirectly disprove the theory that Min's Ilyena. Ilyena was an Aes Sedai, which means she'd have the ability to channel when reborn as well. RJ also said souls can't be split (some people speculated that Ilyena's soul had been split between Rand's three women).

How do we know she was AS? If it was confirmed by an author I am unaware.

 

Trying to remember how long they had been married to see if she was long-lived. If we are assuming she was AS because she was awarded the third name, it is faulty logic. Anyone in the AOL could earn a third name, not just AS.

[Terez]

RJ did indirectly disprove the theory that Min's Ilyena. Ilyena was an Aes Sedai, which means she'd have the ability to channel when reborn as well. RJ also said souls can't be split (some people speculated that Ilyena's soul had been split between Rand's three women).

How do we know she was AS? If it was confirmed by an author I am unaware.

 

Um, try following the link she provided?

[XoMeltdownoX]

RJ did indirectly disprove the theory that Min's Ilyena. Ilyena was an Aes Sedai, which means she'd have the ability to channel when reborn as well. RJ also said souls can't be split (some people speculated that Ilyena's soul had been split between Rand's three women).

How do we know she was AS? If it was confirmed by an author I am unaware.

 

Um, try following the link she provided?

You are right I should have. Will do now:)