Most infuriating moment/topic in the books

[Alric]

Not just irritating but infuriating. Like not just wanting to throw stuff or bang your head into your desk, but actually doing it. Or very close to at least.

[joeron bigelow]

I think its off topic, but what I was trying to imply is that when I write a post that took me several hours to compose and wrack my brain...

 

and then someone comes and shoots down all my stuff without adding anything to the original post subject. thats infuriating about the whole wot discussion.

 

but its all good, just wanted to have a laugh at the irony. Is that the word?

[muddasssir]

sorry guys I was talking to sutt, but one of the most irritating part for me besides eggy are the sniffs. IU mean literally it just drives me crazy each time a femal character sniffs and all the variety of sniffs. There is one for showing disdain, then there is one for showing disapproval or any other.

[Suttree]

I think its off topic, but what I was trying to imply is that when I write a post that took me several hours to compose and wrack my brain...

 

and then someone comes and shoots down all my stuff without adding anything to the original post subject. thats infuriating about the whole wot discussion.

 

Was actually curious if after knowing the reality of each situation they still infuriated you? It seemed your perspective on each was skewed.

Wasn't really trying to shoot it down.

 

If I had to pick a couple infuriating moments it would probably be Egwene's method of "teaching" Nyn in the dangers of Tar when she was scared it would be found out she didn't have permission to be there. Also Rand not listening to Bashere/Dashiva and taking his victory home in the Damona Campaign. His arrogance and ignoring the power problems caused the deaths of a large number of his own men.

[joeron bigelow]

 

 

Was actually curious if after knowing the reality of each situation they still infuriated you? It seemed your perspective on each was skewed.

Wasn't really trying to shoot it down.

 

 

hmmm...wonder how that works. I will admit my perspective was/is a little skewed. I understand the whole politics and procedure, history or sumthin about Andor's royal line and the succession, but...yes right there is what infuriates me!!!

 

Rand is basically the king of the world, absolute power, he says he meant Andor and Carhien for Elayne. I dont recall exactly what he said, but thats the gist of it - the two places belong to her, just like how he "gave" Tear to Darlin. So to me - I'm ok with Elayne being queen, I just hated the 75 chapters about her saying she didnt need Rand to be Queen and this and that need to be done. If I gave my youngest kid the biggest room in the house - thats my prerogative. I do what i wanna do. Its my prerogative. The older kids may whine and bitch and attack the youngest, but I will step in and lay down the law. My youngest kid shouldnt have to bribe the neighbors or his cousins for help.

 

Weird analogy but im so infuriated i cant think straight after banging my head on the desk.

[CauthonsLuck]

Any moment when a someone (usually girl(they're all crazy)) thinks Rand has no idea what he's doing.

[Damer Sedai]

If I had to pick a couple infuriating moments it would probably be Egwene's method of "teaching" Nyn in the dangers of Tar when she was scared it would be found out she didn't have permission to be there. Also Rand not listening to Bashere/Dashiva and taking his victory home in the Damona Campaign. His arrogance and ignoring the power problems caused the deaths of a large number of his own men.

 

I totally cosign these two. RJ's structure of the scene in the Damona campaign demonstrating Rand's hubris was fantastic, and the first time reading these chapters you can feel the impending catastrophe coming; Rand's battle plans slowly coming to a halt, recklessly pushing forward, allowing a carefully placed Weiramon "blunder" (looking so much more clever in hindsight now knowing Weiramons allegiences) to nearly result in the death of the Dragon Reborn, and ignoring the dangers of channeling despite having it pushed in his face, and using Callandor to try and win the battle himself in frustration.

 

I always wondered though: how much of the catastrophe was due to the strangeness around Ebou Dar and how much was using Callendor without a Circle + a woman leading? I always though it was more a Callendor problem than anything, given the info learned from Cadsuane at the end of ACoS would be robbed of its narrative impact otherwise (compared to say, the Choeden Kal used in the same scenario)

 

The biggest for me, anytime Tuon, Renna, Seta or any of the Sul'dam interact with the Damane I see red. Treating sentient beings like animals and denying them basic rights... it is such a black mark on the culture that I hav a hard time relating to any of Tuon's good points. I even hated seeing this stuff happen to Elaida, who is the worst non darkfirend character in the series. I think the most frustrating scene in KoD is when the three Aes Sedai confront Tuon, and despite their previous experiences, they are easily collared again - all three. Aes Sedai panicking, Tuon expecting to keep them as damane despite agreeing to be a prisoner... its really kind of sad when Mat is the only adult in the room. I am even annoyed with Mat, who just ignores the elephant in the room (the damane) with his conversations with his future wife - Burn my soul, his sister is training to be Aes sedai, why doesnt this all creep him out more?

 

As an extension, the complete lack of any real response to the Seanchan problem by the Aes Sedai in general I just find mind boggling, and frustrating to boot. Egwene alone seems to be the only sane person in the room, a veritable Cassandra warning of the danger and no one listening. I know there are a lot of reason why, but to see sisters sitting in the Salidar camp or in the White Tower practicing logic and cracking nuts and ignoring the biggest threat to the white tower since the Breaking... just makes me shake my head.

 

Is it wrong of me to want to see the Seanchan and Tuon get smacked down in some major way, or even squirm a bit, before they join the rest of the good guys in the Last Battle? sometimes I think for me AMOL will be made or broken based on how Seanchan problem is handled, last battle or no last battle.

[rettus]

Infuriating lets see, Elaida,

The part of the book where one of the girls kicks mat in between his legs.

Elayne and her whole "Min said i will have kids and therefore i can do whatever i want and put myself in whatever danger i want too."

The whole Faile being angry at Perrin and going out of her way to make him miserable.

The other Aes Sedai when the don't acknowledge Nynave and Elayne as full sisters even though they acknowledge Eggy as amyrilin.

[Kudzu]

Infuriating lets see, Elaida,

The part of the book where one of the girls kicks mat in between his legs.

Elayne and her whole "Min said i will have kids and therefore i can do whatever i want and put myself in whatever danger i want too."

The whole Faile being angry at Perrin and going out of her way to make him miserable.

The other Aes Sedai when the don't acknowledge Nynave and Elayne as full sisters even though they acknowledge Eggy as amyrilin.

 

I actually see this the other way around. It annoys me that they claim to be Aes Sedai even though they're clearly not (well Nynaeve is now after completing the test and swearing in ToM). Even if we acknowledge Egwene as Amyrlin, since when does the Amyrlin have the power to raise someone Aes Sedai without them completing the test and swearing on the oath rod? It bothers me that no-one ever questions her authority to do so. I can fully understand how a "real" Aes Sedai would not want to acknowledge them.

[batcaver]

Wow, there are so many. I mean some are the good kind, the way a book ought to rile you up, but some are real head scratchers.

 

1. Probably my biggest annoyance - when, as in the middle section of the series, much larger portions of the books are paid to minor side plots of ultimately little consequence while leaving the main plot by the wayside. This includes when major characters do important things "offscreen" while much attention is being paid to minor characters doing very minor things. Some of this did have a positive effect in so far as it made the WOT world more vivid and intricate but man, I remember it REALLY pissing me off back in the day when I would wait years for a book to come out and my favorite characters were barely in it.

 

2. I find it hard to believe that so many relationships have lasted through the books or have even been formed at all given that the general standard in WOT is to be utterly uncompromising and often downright hostile toward the person one has affection for. Mostly it's the women who are depicted in such an inhospitable way, though the men have occasional moments as well. In particular Siuan, Faile, Egwene and above all Tuon come to mind. Why anyone would consider marrying any of these people I cannot imagine, and at times it's made whole parts of the books difficult to swallow.

 

3. With some notable exceptions, the Forsaken have been kind of disappointing. I remember getting really excited about them in the beginning of the series, reading about them in the glossary and waiting for them to show up. Then most of them showed up just to die immediately and most of the rest have only stayed alive by doing nothing but having lots of tea parties.

 

4. The Seanchan in general just get under my skin. I don't want to go overboard about it, but Egwene seems to be the only one who ever expresses the appropriate level of outrage about the collared damane. Mat's attitude about it with Tuon is very abstruse to me, almost as if it's an afterthought that he'll address with her at some later day, after they get hitched. Really? Even after he saved the collared Aes Sedai? I'd have thought it would be a first order of business deal breaker.

 

5. The naming of characters after random fans in TOM seemed kind of...weird. Silly. Not something I'd think Jordan would have really been into.

 

I better stop there. WOT sure has some awesome moments, but there's been plenty of crazy of years too. Kudos on the thread idea, it was kinda fun to reflect.

[zerachiel76]

1. Rescuing Faile

2. Rescuing Egwene

3. Egwene's rise to power. I didnt have to read every other paragraph that she needed to drink that stupid tea.

4. Moggy turned into a complete lame ass chosen. She kicked ass until Moridin got her soul.

5. Rand and Min basically humping every chance they get. I dont get how he thought he and Avi should have married, but suddenly doesnt respect min the same way?

6. anything of Elayne being queen.

 

I really did like the one scene where Elayne threatened sort of, to have Perrin beheaded, and Perrin snorts that Rand wouldnt appreciate that. I think we need more scenes like that - where everyone realized that Mat and Perrin are pretty darn important people and Rand has a big stick.

 

I mean really - at one point Rand needs to put Elayne in her place and tell her - "Hey, i set up Andor and Carhein for you, just take the damn crowns...we dont need three books worth of your damn succession plans."

 

Absolutely agree, with your second post as well and the line about the crown being no bauble to be accepted from a man. Has she forgotten that in book one there was protests against her Mother's rule and some people were saying it was about time Andor had a King? Apparently she has, I'm no believer in the divine right of Kings/Queens.

[Mulk]

I don't have one particular plot point that got on my nerves. My complaint was more general. That moment in POD at which it became painfully and crystal clear to me that RJ had no idea how to get from where he was to where he was going. I held out hope through COS. After POD, I went on hiatus for a while, because I knew I'd be lucky if I got the end of the story within a decade. I was only short by four years and change. :P I remember thinking "I've put up with eight years of arms crossing under breasts and looking down noses and general 'the other sex is stupid and not to be trusted' for -this-?"

 

Don't get me wrong, I still love the story, which is why I came back to it. I openly wondered whether he was being paid by the word at many points, though.

[Suttree]

Absolutely agree, with your second post as well and the line about the crown being no bauble to be accepted from a man. Has she forgotten that in book one there was protests against her Mother's rule and some people were saying it was about time Andor had a King? Apparently she has, I'm no believer in the divine right of Kings/Queens.

 

The great thing about Andor is there is freedom to speak out politically. In book 1 Whitecloacks were causing trouble because of her invovlment with the WT. Nevertheless Morgase was a popular Queen until Rahvin used compulsion on her. You can't take her actions after that as a statement on her rule.

 

Once again Rand liberated the country and was regent, he never conquered it as he did the others. The sentiment from both the public and nobels was extremely anti-DR on the throne and they wanted him out of Andor. If Elayne had tried to accept it from Rand she would never had garnered the needed votes and he made things more difficult by announcing his intentions. Bashere himself lays out the reasons why Elayne had to do it on her own.

[thisguy]

Absolutely agree, with your second post as well and the line about the crown being no bauble to be accepted from a man. Has she forgotten that in book one there was protests against her Mother's rule and some people were saying it was about time Andor had a King? Apparently she has, I'm no believer in the divine right of Kings/Queens.

 

The great thing about Andor is there is freedom to speak out politically. In book 1 Whitecloacks were causing trouble because of her invovlment with the WT. Nevertheless Morgase was a popular Queen until Rahvin used compulsion on her. You can't take her actions after that as a statement on her rule.

 

Once again Rand liberated the country and was regent, he never conquered it as he did the others. The sentiment from both the public and nobels was extremely anti-DR on the throne and they wanted him out of Andor. If Elayne had tried to accept it from Rand she would never had garnered the needed votes and he made things more difficult by announcing his intentions. Bashere himself lays out the reasons why Elayne had to do it on her own.

 

I agree with this. That's the entire point. However, I can see how it gets annoying. As someone else said, waiting for main plots to proceed and having to read through long sideplots can get annoying. I actually didn't mind, and sometimes liked, the Caemlynn scenes.

However, I did find it to drag on a bit too long, but it wasn't the only thing. Perrin's indecision about leading and his axe/hammer - wolf/man thing went on too long for me. And, I really like Perrin.

 

It's a hugely long story. Someone else mentioned how great characters and character plots get forgotten about - I agree - again, it's a hugely long story. It's bound to happen.

[Maleshub]

Perrin's refusal to help the people of So Harbor .... all the needed to do was let the Aes Sedai have a couple of hours in the town to see if they could help. And it wouldn't have hindered him at all.

 

Perrin cutting off the hand of the captured Shaido .... That was just so manic, brutal, and cruel. Just gave me the chills.

 

Rand mass extermination of Natrin's Barrow .... And his threat to destroy the borderlanders for "slighting him." He was more Demandred in that scene than LTT.

[Apple Scruff]

Perrin's refusal to help the people of So Harbor .... all the needed to do was let the Aes Sedai have a couple of hours in the town to see if they could help. And it wouldn't have hindered him at all.

 

Perrin cutting off the hand of the captured Shaido .... That was just so manic, brutal, and cruel. Just gave me chills.

 

What it boils down to is how awful this whole plotline was. Not a good love story, not a good attitude for one of your heros. "Nothing matters but Faile" is not ok as an approach to life in general, but especially with TG coming and the world falling apart.

 

Could this cost Perrin a legacy as a Hero of the Horn?

[avernite]

Rand mass extermination of Natrin's Barrow ....

 

I'll be honest, to me that was awesome both in writing and in the tactic employed. I mean, how many died to bring down Sammael? To defeat Rahvin? Better to kill the effectively walking dead than those who still have a life ahead.

 

But maybe I just have stronger evil tendencies than I know :)

[thisguy]

Rand mass extermination of Natrin's Barrow ....

 

I'll be honest, to me that was awesome both in writing and in the tactic employed. I mean, how many died to bring down Sammael? To defeat Rahvin? Better to kill the effectively walking dead than those who still have a life ahead.

 

But maybe I just have stronger evil tendencies than I know :)

 

I agree.

[Rayquaza1090]

About 90% of CoT. The series is great, but that book in particular...

[Suttree]

I'll be honest, to me that was awesome both in writing and in the tactic employed. I mean, how many died to bring down Sammael? To defeat Rahvin? Better to kill the effectively walking dead than those who still have a life ahead.

 

We are told Graendal is the most skilled person alive at compulsion. It's use can range from a sledge hammer all the way down to the lightest touch(Semi tells us Graendal was quite good at this). Many of peope at Natrins Barrow would have been able to live a totally normal life, they most certainly were not all "walking dead". Worst part is it didn't even accomplish his objective. It was lucky he caught any of the forsaken in that strike.

[Andrew the Asha'Man]

My least favorite part is i feel like only i wouldn't like and that was when Aginor(sp dont have books with me) and Rand fight. The cord that connected Him to the sky that rand had to slice to finish him off. Maybe i just didn't understand that fully or what but that is the only forsaken fight (that i can remember) that happens like that

[thisguy]

I'll be honest, to me that was awesome both in writing and in the tactic employed. I mean, how many died to bring down Sammael? To defeat Rahvin? Better to kill the effectively walking dead than those who still have a life ahead.

 

We are told Graendal is the most skilled person alive at compulsion. It's use can range from a sledge hammer all the way down to the lightest touch(Semi tells us Graendal was quite good at this). Many of peope at Natrins Barrow would have been able to live a totally normal life, they most certainly were not all "walking dead". Worst part is it didn't even accomplish his objective. It was lucky he caught any of the forsaken in that strike.

 

That may be true. What I mean is, what you say about compulsion is true, whether any of the people there could be saved is questionable. Whatever he did achieve from doing this was accidental but he did end up ruining Graendal's plans and, later, when he cast off the darkness he was able to help the Domani without interference from Graendal.

[thisguy]

My least favorite part is i feel like only i wouldn't like and that was when Aginor(sp dont have books with me) and Rand fight. The cord that connected Him to the sky that rand had to slice to finish him off. Maybe i just didn't understand that fully or what but that is the only forsaken fight (that i can remember) that happens like that

 

In the Eye of the World? I feel like - and can most certainly be wrong - RJ was still figuring certain things out in that book. I mentioned it yesterday, but Moiraine's use of a staff to focus her power is never used by her again. In fact, it's never used by any AS again in the series. And, when you look at how weaving evolved after, it never once came up.

[driedraspberry]

Rand mass extermination of Natrin's Barrow ....

 

I'll be honest, to me that was awesome both in writing and in the tactic employed. I mean, how many died to bring down Sammael? To defeat Rahvin? Better to kill the effectively walking dead than those who still have a life ahead.

 

But maybe I just have stronger evil tendencies than I know :)

 

I actually loved that Rand was put in a place to make such a difficult decision. It's a war with the shadow, sunshine and rainbows don't apply.

 

Same goes for Perrin. Considering all the violence and trauma he's been through, of course that Shaido purposely rousing him would lead to a terrible instinctive act of violence. It was probably my favorite scene in that particular plot. One of my favorite Perrin moments. Another one would be Mat ordering the kill on Renna. I loved their respective horror in the aftermaths of those acts.

 

Scenes where characters do "bad" things/make mistakes don't bother me. It's only when the context supports those actions/thoughts/views and they're not considered problematic by anyone is when I get infuriated.

[Whizbang]

I personally liked the bit at Natrin's Barrow. Yeah, a bunch of innocents died, which is bad, but I liked the portrayal of Dark-Rand. I especially liked this quote:

“How do you fight someone smarter than yourself?” Rand whispered. “The answer is simple. You make her think that you are sitting down across the table from her, ready to play her game. Then you punch her in the face as hard as you can.”

 

Things are spinning out of control. He needs to reduce the amount of opponents as much as possible, as soon as possible. He only has vague ideas as to who/where the other enemies are, and limited opportunities to take advantage of. Graendal sitting all smug in her fortress was too good to pass up. He could have sent in an army of AS, AM, and soldiers, but she would have a counter for that and would escape. He couldn't risk letting her escape, even at the cost of innocent lives.

 

I wonder how far back he burned Delena/Aran'gar's thread? If Rhavin went back a couple hours, how much would CK Balefire send someone back? A few days? Weeks? Months? Back to before they were freed from the prison at SG?