Spoilers! Chapter One - Eastwards the Winds Blew is up on Tor

[Barid Bel Medar]

They had obviously arranged it beforehand, Elayne knew Egwene was coming, they knew the need for secrecy because they are two powerful leaders.

 

Obviously it had been arranged so nobody would go near the side of the tent that the Gateway was opened to.

 

She did send a letter, and received one back - most likely confirming it was alright to Travel into her tent at that moment. It's really no big deal.

[Hopefire]

 

I agree, Egwene probably had it planned.

 

Which reminds me, proper protocol for meeting the AS is to kiss her ring. Rand skipped out on that in TOM, I wonder if an awkward protocol moment will occur in AMOL regarding that between Rand and Egwene.

[Randommer]

I wonder what's become of Olver?

I was wondering that too. I'm guessing there's going to be some sort of scene where Mat gets the news that Caemlyn's been taken and freaks out looking for him. I'm also guessing that he's okay, since the Mat we got in Chapter 11 did not seem like a post-dead-Olver Mat.

 

 

Whew, finished the prologue and first chapter and this is the first chance I've had to come on here in a while. So, I apologise in advance for venting about a few things...

 

1. Okay, seriously, the under-reaction. So much under-reaction. "Oh, I'm going to be a dad? And everyone's been waiting to see me freak out for like five books? Yes, it was surprising to learn about moments ago in some way I'm not going to go into. I'd much rather reminisce about Two Rivers stories I've heard before." Or we have Elayne: "Oh, Caemlyn's fallen? That city I rule? Well, sheep's hide of an obscure curse!" Rand: *shrugs* "Hey, this could be a good thing." Which brings me to...

 

2. What the heck is up with Rand? I mean, Jesus Rand annoyed me no end, but it seems to have gotten to the point now where I just don't know what I'm reading with him. And it doesn't seem like BS knows what he's writing with him either. In the same chapter we have, "The person he became when he wore the mantle of the Dragon Reborn...that wasn’t simply an act, wasn’t simply a mask. It was who he was. He had not changed, he had not transformed. He had merely accepted." And then, "Rand had to be something more, for a little time yet. He had to be a symbol, a force that everyone could rely upon. That was terribly tiring. Not all of it was physical fatigue, but instead something deeper. Being what people needed was wearing on him, grinding as surely as a river cut at a mountain. In the end, the river would always win... ...He felt the mantle of the Dragon Reborn harden upon him." In the same damn chapter. What sort of... I don't even know. The book simply can't go on with its main character being that inconsistent. We have him ranging from Dark Rand cynicism thinking about Caemlyn to totally asinine thinking about Demandred, and back to Jesus at other times. I never subscribed to Terez's theory that Rand is still in the nuthouse, but now I really do hope that's true. Otherwise...gah. BS couldn't possibly be this lazy, could he? I'm really hoping Rand's still insane

 

3. Anyway, other than that, the whole Rand/Egwene thing here was intriguing. It seems like Egwene's less militant about her side than we thought, and Rand's more. Can't make heads or tails of Rand's plans here, actually. "We shall see. Tomorrow," sounds kind of ominous. It really does seem like he's set himself against her on purpose. Perrin was trying to get him to explain his reasoning to her properly, and he just did not seem interested. To me, it seems almost like he's planning on trying to replace her as Amyrlin or something. Anyone any less ridiculous theories?

[b3arz3rg3r]

I agree, Egwene probably had it planned.

 

Which reminds me, proper protocol for meeting the AS is to kiss her ring. Rand skipped out on that in TOM, I wonder if an awkward protocol moment will occur in AMOL regarding that between Rand and Egwene.

 

There is no proper protocol for the DR. If he kisses her Ring does she have to kiss his brands? As DR he isn't subject to the authority of the AS

[yoniy0]

Which reminds me, proper protocol for meeting the AS is to kiss her ring. Rand skipped out on that in TOM, I wonder if an awkward protocol moment will occur in AMOL regarding that between Rand and Egwene.

There was no Amyrlin when Rand was AS, and I very much doubt the Tower would recognize him as an initiate either way. So no, the protocol doesn't apply to him.

 

Egwene's less militant about her side than we thought, and Rand's more.

In a nutshell. It's getting tiring, this need for one character to behave less wisely (not to say "lose his marbles") for the other to impress us.

[Rocky_Outcrop]

@randomer Could you please explain in an articulate manner what the problem is in you #2?

 

I see you quote the book and you state that there is a conflict but you're not clear on the conflict.

 

Cheers

[XXX]

I agree, Egwene probably had it planned.

 

Which reminds me, proper protocol for meeting the AS is to kiss her ring. Rand skipped out on that in TOM, I wonder if an awkward protocol moment will occur in AMOL regarding that between Rand and Egwene.

 

Rand is the Dragon. A lightly higher pay grade than an Amyrlin.

[sfgiantsfanmike]

I agree, Egwene probably had it planned.

 

Which reminds me, proper protocol for meeting the AS is to kiss her ring. Rand skipped out on that in TOM, I wonder if an awkward protocol moment will occur in AMOL regarding that between Rand and Egwene.

 

Rand is the Dragon. A lightly higher pay grade than an Amyrlin.

 

If we count Rands time as LTT wouldn't he be considered 'Tamrylin,' the male eqivilent of Amrylin? (spelling on those two words is from memory and likely botched)

[MasterAblar]

I agree, Egwene probably had it planned.

 

Which reminds me, proper protocol for meeting the AS is to kiss her ring. Rand skipped out on that in TOM, I wonder if an awkward protocol moment will occur in AMOL regarding that between Rand and Egwene.

 

Rand is the Dragon. A lightly higher pay grade than an Amyrlin.

 

If we count Rands time as LTT wouldn't he be considered 'Tamrylin,' the male eqivilent of Amrylin? (spelling on those two words is from memory and likely botched)

 

LTT was first amongst servants and wore the ring of Tamrylin. In a way he was the equivalent of the Amrylin, albeit a more important version of the Amrylin considering the WT's ppwer is limited to the Westlands and only allows female channellers. The Dragon, or the Dragon Reborn, though, is different. It has to do with the soul, whereas Amrylin and Tamrylin are just titles. I imagine what XXX47 is saying is that, as far as the pattern is considered, the Dragon is good deal more important than the Amrylin.

[Suttree]

I agree, Egwene probably had it planned.

 

Which reminds me, proper protocol for meeting the AS is to kiss her ring. Rand skipped out on that in TOM, I wonder if an awkward protocol moment will occur in AMOL regarding that between Rand and Egwene.

 

Rand is the Dragon. A lightly higher pay grade than an Amyrlin.

 

If we count Rands time as LTT wouldn't he be considered 'Tamrylin,' the male eqivilent of Amrylin? (spelling on those two words is from memory and likely botched)

 

Tamrylin was the name of the first person to channel. It was not a title.

[Maleshub]

Funny how Rand and Moghedien use the term "little sister" when referring to modern day Aes Sedai. Rand used it when talking to Moiraine; and Moghedien addressed Liandrin with it. If Rand\LTT was first among AoL Aes Sedai, to consider him on the same level as today's Amyrlin is a demotion.

 

One of the nice things to read in chapter one was Rand's commitment to unity. And with Jason's hint that Rand and Egwene stood out in the rest of the book, I think they'll work very well together and lead the Light to victory.

[MasterAblar]

Funny how Rand and Moghedien use the term "little sister" when referring to modern day Aes Sedai. Rand used it when talking to Moiraine; and Moghedien addressed Liandrin with it.

 

I figured that just had to do with the difference in age. Moiraine is like 50, whereas LTT was 400 years old. I imagine there's quite a big difference between Moghedien and Liandrin as well.

[yoniy0]

Or strength?

[joeron bigelow]

I don't need a fan discussion to reach a conclusion on this issue, because the books make it very clear.

 

Not to be a D%%k or anything, but reading this line in itself is hilarious. I asked myself - if the books were very clear, we wouldnt have this forum to discuss it.

 

I am actually one that wants proof the Aiel Killed Laman - which aiel was it? There is no where that it mentions they actually killed him. Sure they loot his body, but did they stab him?

 

Is it too far fetched to think, Laman ran to Tar Valon seeking sanctuary, and got killed by Tam on the mountain while defending the king of illian from a crazed rabid Laman?

[fionwe1987]

There was no Amyrlin when Rand was AS, and I very much doubt the Tower would recognize him as an initiate either way. So no, the protocol doesn't apply to him.

True. Though it would be a genius move on Egwene's part to grant him that title. If he demands it (as he well might, given how he spoke to Cadsuane), and Egwene says, "Yes, this makes sense. I decree that Rand al'Thor is Aes Sedai", she'd have made the cleverest move in forever. She's even set the precedent for this, raising Nynaeve, Elayne, Faolain and Theodrin by decree. In one stroke, she'll ensure that none of the Aes Sedai can interfere with him, AND she'll have made sure that the WT taking in male channelers is not looked at as weird.

In a nutshell. It's getting tiring, this need for one character to behave less wisely (not to say "lose his marbles") for the other to impress us.

Its getting beyond irritating. I wonder if Egwene will start looking stupid again if Brandon feels Rand has to take the center stage in a couple of chapters.

[XXX]

If Rand become AS he has to follow Egwene as his leader. Why would he do that especially when he is going to do things his way.

[Randommer]

@randomer Could you please explain in an articulate manner what the problem is in you #2?

 

I see you quote the book and you state that there is a conflict but you're not clear on the conflict.

 

Cheers

I just thought the quotes were pretty clear.

 

2. What the heck is up with Rand? I mean, Jesus Rand annoyed me no end, but it seems to have gotten to the point now where I just don't know what I'm reading with him. And it doesn't seem like BS knows what he's writing with him either. In the same chapter we have, "The person he became when he wore the mantle of the Dragon Reborn...that wasn’t simply an act, wasn’t simply a mask. It was who he was. He had not changed, he had not transformed. He had merely accepted." And then, "Rand had to be something more, for a little time yet. He had to be a symbol, a force that everyone could rely upon. That was terribly tiring. Not all of it was physical fatigue, but instead something deeper. Being what people needed was wearing on him, grinding as surely as a river cut at a mountain. In the end, the river would always win... ...He felt the mantle of the Dragon Reborn harden upon him." In the same damn chapter. What sort of... I don't even know. The book simply can't go on with its main character being that inconsistent. We have him ranging from Dark Rand cynicism thinking about Caemlyn to totally asinine thinking about Demandred, and back to Jesus at other times. I never subscribed to Terez's theory that Rand is still in the nuthouse, but now I really do hope that's true. Otherwise...gah. BS couldn't possibly be this lazy, could he? I'm really hoping Rand's still insane.

 

In the first quote, Rand clearly says that wearing the mantle of the DR isn't an act or a mask; it's just who he is. In the second quote, he says that he is in fact putting on a tiring mask, and calls the mantle of the DR a pressure.

 

I wasn't really joking about the insane thing, btw. His thoughts seemed to vary drastically between bleakness and zen-ness, in a far more disordered way than they ever did when he was insane before. It could conceivably be a battle between a Moridin mindset and his own. Either that or BS is just very confused about how to write a post VoG Rand's pov, and is struggling clumsily to make him less Jesus-y. Not a fan of either option, tbh.

[Hopefire]

That's not at all a contradiction.

 

Compare to say, Abraham Lincoln. Folksy common sense man was his preferred way of being, but he could also be the stern father of the state, grave minded symbol of America. Neither state was an act or a pretense, but being in the second state was significantly more emotionally draining than the first. You can find similar people throughout history - Churchill and his whimsy and wit in one hand, his defiant and fiery leadership on the other, even Barack Obama has two distinctive modes.

 

It's not putting in a mask. When Obama delivers a speech as POTUS, he's not pretending to be something he isn't, when he sits down to have a beer, he's not pretending to be something he isn't, but he puts on different body language and a different mode of speech suitable to the situation. Rand being the Dragon Reborn isn't Rand pretending to be something he's not, he's not putting on a mask or an act, but he is showing a side of himself fhat's terribly wearisome to maintain. Just look at the photos of any US President at the time they were elected and the time they left office - crushing responsibility can age a person quickly.

 

It's easier fo Rand personally to be Rand al'Thor, having some wine with a friend. And that's part of who he is. But so is being the Dragon. There is no contradiction.

 

 

Rand is definitely aware of his cynicism. His experience in VOG hasn't made him blind to the kind of observations he was able to make while in his personal darkness; I'd argue that VOG has changed nothing in how sees the world, but everything in how he chooses to react to the world.

[pilgram]

I don't need a fan discussion to reach a conclusion on this issue, because the books make it very clear.

 

Not to be a D%%k or anything, but reading this line in itself is hilarious. I asked myself - if the books were very clear, we wouldnt have this forum to discuss it.

 

I am actually one that wants proof the Aiel Killed Laman - which aiel was it? There is no where that it mentions they actually killed him. Sure they loot his body, but did they stab him?

 

Is it too far fetched to think, Laman ran to Tar Valon seeking sanctuary, and got killed by Tam on the mountain while defending the king of illian from a crazed rabid Laman?

 

 

Yes, yes it is.

[Neophyte]

[This post voluntarily removed by the poster]

 

It was not my intent to call any person on this forum "stupid."

[muddasssir]

@hopefire 1+ to you man and what can I say about someone who cannot see that a person has many sides at one time. Do you behave same with your friends, colleagues, neighbors and strangers? Everyone has different facets some come to you more naturally then others. Does it mean that the ones that come to you more naturally are the real ones and others are because you are crazy?

[driedraspberry]

Funny how Rand and Moghedien use the term "little sister" when referring to modern day Aes Sedai. Rand used it when talking to Moiraine; and Moghedien addressed Liandrin with it.

 

I figured that just had to do with the difference in age. Moiraine is like 50, whereas LTT was 400 years old. I imagine there's quite a big difference between Moghedien and Liandrin as well.

 

Perhaps, but from Forsaken's perspective modern AS are "half trained" girls and I imagine, regardless of age, calling them "sister" would feel as wrong to them as it would a modern AS calling an Accepted "sister".

[joeron bigelow]

I don't need a fan discussion to reach a conclusion on this issue, because the books make it very clear.

 

Not to be a D%%k or anything, but reading this line in itself is hilarious. I asked myself - if the books were very clear, we wouldnt have this forum to discuss it.

 

I am actually one that wants proof the Aiel Killed Laman - which aiel was it? There is no where that it mentions they actually killed him. Sure they loot his body, but did they stab him?

 

Is it too far fetched to think, Laman ran to Tar Valon seeking sanctuary, and got killed by Tam on the mountain while defending the king of illian from a crazed rabid Laman?

 

This has been my point all along, Joeron. We don't need a forum to discuss this particular question. Just because some people come here to do it doesn't mean that it is a reasonable line of thinking or that it needs to be done. Some ideas are ridiculous enough that they actually aren't worth considering. It's not worth asking the question "What if this is true?"

 

Even asking the question tries to validate the idea to some extent. It implies that the question is worth asking. And in this case, it simply isn't.

 

But many people do things anyway, even when they're ridiculous.

 

Oh well I guess I must have missed that rule "don't ask stupid questions."

 

It must be nice being such a genius.

[Hopefire]

I don't need a fan discussion to reach a conclusion on this issue, because the books make it very clear.

 

Not to be a D%%k or anything, but reading this line in itself is hilarious. I asked myself - if the books were very clear, we wouldnt have this forum to discuss it.

 

I am actually one that wants proof the Aiel Killed Laman - which aiel was it? There is no where that it mentions they actually killed him. Sure they loot his body, but did they stab him?

 

Is it too far fetched to think, Laman ran to Tar Valon seeking sanctuary, and got killed by Tam on the mountain while defending the king of illian from a crazed rabid Laman?

 

This has been my point all along, Joeron. We don't need a forum to discuss this particular question. Just because some people come here to do it doesn't mean that it is a reasonable line of thinking or that it needs to be done. Some ideas are ridiculous enough that they actually aren't worth considering. It's not worth asking the question "What if this is true?"

 

Even asking the question tries to validate the idea to some extent. It implies that the question is worth asking. And in this case, it simply isn't.

 

But many people do things anyway, even when they're ridiculous.

 

I think that it's more likely that Tam killed Lamon than that the True Power will be used in the Sealing of the Bore. For one, we have an important character in the right place at the right time, and who has shown obvious dislike for Lamon and understanding of the Aiel's reason for the invasion. The other is absolutely wacky, like if Moridin's strategy was to make the Ta'veren effect free the Dark One. But there's no reason that both theories can't be discussed.

[Neophyte]

[This post voluntarily removed by the poster]

 

It was not my intent to call any person on this forum "stupid."