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Experienced (11/16)

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  1. Loved Perrin and Lanfear's interactions all the way through. She was great in this book. And the way he killed her was just so brutal and ironic. Finally someone remembered that she's evil. I do agree with the person who said that he seemed weirdly unworried about Faile at times, though. I would say that BS was avoiding that particular melodrama on purpose, but I sort of thought the same thing about Min with Rand, so...eh.
  2. Sorry, wacky theory I must post somewhere before I forget: What if Nakomi is Rand in disguise? When Avi encountered her, she seemed to be doing Rand's new Pattern-bending stuff, and we haven't seen anyone else who can do that. A lot of the stuff she said made it sound like she was from a different time ('I am far from my roof, and yet not far at all. Perhaps it is far from me'), and if there was ever a canditate for time-travel, it would seem to be Rand now, having stepped outside of time and the Pattern and seemingly gained some weird understandings while there. He would be concerned enough about the fate of the Aiel to do it, and Avi may tell him about her trip at some point. He would also be concerned enough about his own survival post-TG to turn up at Shayol Ghul. This is probably wrong, but at the same time, Rand is now weirdly the best candidate from 'known' things. Anything else would have to be something completely new, and I really don't think she's the Creator. Just doesn't fit with the 'I WILL TAKE NO PART' philosophy. I had thought she was a Jenn Aiel of some sort or Verin at a stretch, but I don't see the Jenn Aiel turning up at Shayol Ghul and Verin's dead.
  3. The debate about the whole 'world without DO = no evil' thing... Well that was never how I understood the WoT world. I always assumed like most readers that the characters were capable of being evil in their own right, like regular people, and the DO was just an external force. But then, that was never really explained and it has been discussed here before. So, it turns out that no, the DO is actually just all evil ever, including human evil. Well, alright then. By that definition, the DO is actually an integral part of the Pattern, since the Pattern is both good and evil and tries to balance them, so...uhm? Okay, I suppose. What that seems to be saying is that the world the Creator wanted to make, free of the DO, would have been awful. Unless he purposefully stuck the DO in there to keep things interesting. Beyond that, I agree with everyone who's said that Rand is sort of a #### dad, and pretty #### to his own dad, too. I remember reading Avi's future vision thing, and thinking that Rand had to be dead because his kids had never seen him. It just seemed very out of character for a post-VoG Rand to do that, though granted I don't think RJ would ever have gone as Jesus-y with him as BS did. And it does make sense that Rand can't hang out with his kids; he has to go into hiding, he can't take kids with him, and it might put them in danger if anyone knew he was alive (and you can't really trust young kids to keep secrets like that). The jarring thing about it was that it didn't occur to him. He was like 'which one would I pick? Nah, can't choose; I'm such an asshole lol' and I was there 'dude, your kids?' Really? Not a bit of contemplation about how he'd be sad he couldn't be with them? Or a thought about how he'd let Tam know he was alive soon, considering the guy has now literally lost everyone? Pfeh. I know he was meant to be all delirious about still existing and whatnot, but still. Pfeh.
  4. Whew just finished! That took longer than I thought, but I wanted to read it properly. I don't quite know how I feel right now...
  5. Oh I'd completely forgotten about all that time stuff. I always sort of had a theory that Rand or someone would figure out how to use the OP to turn the wheel of time backwards, considering the OP is the force that drives it. I have no real evidence for that theory, but then that is the point of this thread. It is interesting that time stuff might come into it in some way, though.
  6. In terms of the Finns being more like the Aos Sídhe, that's not exactly true. The Finns are more like the later versions such as Shakespearean and Victorian fairies, with the iron and music thing and stuff. The Aes Sedai are very much based on the older versions, down to the Warders and all. That's not to say the White Tower doesn't draw a whole lot from the Catholic Church, because it does, but there's a whole lot of Aos Sídhe there too if you read the stories. In terms of what that might mean for their fate, tbh I was of the mind that we won't know what happens to them anyway. I think that RJ planned to leave that as one of his open-ended things; 'the Great Battle done, but the world not done with battle' and all. The Aos Sídhe thing just makes me a bit more sure that it won't end well, because the story really is very similar. With the pronounciation, I assumed it was sheega because the word later morphed into síoga, which would be odd if the dh hadn't originally been pronounced with the usual g sound. But I don't think I ever heard it pronounced in real life, and if I did it was probably in Irish class and I was probably asleep
  7. Oh, I was talking about the ToM epilogue...and now I'm confused. Eh, doesn't really matter. Agreed. I'm sort of hoping though that the second chapter was slow-moving at least partly because they knew it was going to be pre-released, and tbh a lot did happen in the first chapter. Too much, imo. Hopefully the pacing evens out over the rest of the book; that much speeding up and sudden braking would make a person ill.
  8. So, I've been reading a lot of mythology lately, and I was reminded of the parallels between the Aes Sedai and the Aos Sídhe (ace sheega) of Irish myth. They were what came to be known as the fairies, and another name for them was the Tuatha Dé Danann (tooha day danan), which is clearly related to the travelling folks' name of Tuatha'an, though the why of that is a bit more confusing. But if the AS-fairy parallels are a big thing, then it does not look good for that future Aviendha saw. The story goes: There were different sorts of people who came to Ireland in groups: some were regular folk, some were giants; it's sort of vague. One day, the Tuatha Dé Danann (people of the goddess Danu) show up in boats in a conjured mist. They were all magic and immortal and stuff. They have a few wars with the other groups. Then the regular people turn up (aka the Spanish, for some reason), and go to war with all the other groups. Eventually it comes down to the Tuatha and the regular people, and the regular people win, forcing the Aos Sídhe (people of the mounds) from the earth and underground to another realm, where time moves differently, etc. When those who aren't elevated to god status turn up in later stories, it's often as visitors to dreams, and they're often women (there are men too, but their roles in stories are different). They excel in inciting opposing sides to war, or getting mortals, and particularly men, wrapped up in otherworld plots. Some are nice, and some are not. They almost never seem to kill directly. Clearly, RJ drew heavily on the Aos Sídhe stories in creating the Aes Sedai. But the fate of the Aos Sídhe sounds eerily like the future Avi saw for Aes Sedai and Aiel. A group of invaders comes from overseas and goes to war with them, eventually defeating them and driving them to extinction (or possibly to some other world?) before becoming the land's rulers. If RJ's using his 'myths get confused' thing as a source for a mix-up between the Tuatha'an and the related Aiel, then it might bode ill for them as well (though there are other possibilities for that parallel). Thoughts?
  9. Destroying a Waygate is incredibly difficult. I don't mind the issue of having the Shadow overcome guards or wardings or the removal of the Avendesora leaves, I just dislike the cheap way it was handled. We needed to see the Shadow struggle to overcome whatever protections were in place, not just be told 'oh yeah, we did that and they did this, and NOW THERE'S TROLLOCS EVERYWHERE'. It's more the violations of show don't tell than the way of it that I struggle with. But then I suppose, if they'd shown them trying to break out of the waygate or whatever, there wouldn't have been such a shock factor with the NOW THERE'S TROLLOCS EVERYWHERE, and I quite enjoyed that at the time. Rather underwhelming after that, but the shock was...shocking at least.
  10. I agree with Fish's train of thought; I'm actually quite...depressed at how negative this thread has gotten. I mean, I could write an essay about the numerous ways the last few books have irked me as a fan, and as a fiction nerd who just can't understand how some of the more major fumblings could have happened. But...it still saddens me to think that so many of us might buy this last book with a bad taste in our mouths, expecting to have to overlook a whole lot of flaws. It's certainly not what RJ would have wanted, and it's such a shame for such a great series and a book that so many have waited so long for. So, come on everyone. Happy thoughts. HAPPY THOUGHTS.
  11. I was referring to the most recent reread; TGS was a while ago at this point. Also, defend BS's work all you want, but people are perfectly entitled to ciriticise his work and keep reading it. I'm a WoT fan and will remain so, but that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to criticise Sanderson. I mention it if I like something and I mention it if I don't like something. He's a professional writer, and I'm sure he's used to criticism being part of the gig.
  12. This is interesting. I was quite unhappy with some of the first chapter (not all of it, but I had some major qualms), but most other people seemed to think it was good. The view seems to have changed with this chapter; I wonder how much of that has to do with the audio format. That was definitely...slow. I found myself thinking, "Wow twenty minutes have passed; what's happened exactly?" Anyway, with the actual content, mistakes and all, I had the same problem I usually do with BS's WoT stuff, which is mainly the lack of effort. He quit his reread somewhere in TSR I think, and it really shows. I mean, it's uncommon to not reread your own books before continuing with a series, let alone someone else's, and let alone with a vast series like WoT. The mistakes are where it shows most evidently, but it effects the characterization and everything too. Considering the great opportunity BS was given with WoT, and the huge impact it's had on his career, it just seems...poor repayment. If he wasn't going to commit to it properly, he should have told them to give the task to someone else. With all the inconsistencies that we the fans have no problem seeing immediately...it just doesn't seem like he's as familiar with the series as you would hope. And I'm not sure how the editing team doesn't catch the more straightforward mistakes at least. Makes you wonder how many are in there originally I suppose. Sorry, rant over; I just find the whole thing odd. I can't help but feel that something we enjoy is being treated with extreme cynicism.
  13. Huh I'd completely forgotten about that Kari thing. That is interesting. I see no reason why it couldn't be her - the fact that heroes of the horn and wolves' souls end up in TAR shows that souls can exist there. I'd say it's just that others' souls don't normally go there, rather than that they can't. It's not exactly clear what Rand does in the end either; he may have just set her free rather can killed her, judging by the strange phrase 'a blade of light, a blade of the Light'. Maybe it only hurt Shadowspawn; it doesn't really sound like balefire. Does it even hit Kari? Either that, or she might have just been glad to be free anyway. Or it could have been Ishy or someone who was posing as her messing with Rand's head more. As to Rand himself, I always sort of thought that the HotH must have been somehow immune to being held by the DO, or the others rescue them or something. Otherwise there must have been a few times in the past when he could have nabbed some of them. For instance didn't Birgitte die in the War of Power? Or do we just know she was around then?
  14. Red hair isn't very common in places like Ireland or Scotland either; it's just pretty rare everywhere (though the archaeology nerd in me must point out that 'Celtic' is a broad term for related cultures and languages that existed in Western and Central Europe rather than an actual people). The fact that the Aiel have a rare trait in such abundance, as well as their height, points to them having a very geographically or socially isolated AoL heritage. RJ was aware of this too, since he never mentions the Tuatha'an having more red or fair hair than average or being very tall, presumably due to more mixing with other peoples. The other weird thing about that is that the Aiel were such a closed and homogenous group in the utopian AoL, a time when race didn't seem to matter. They're the only seperate cultural/racial group we know of from the time, and their strictness about their inherited duties to the Aes Sedai seems very odd in a time that valued freedom of choice, etc. Nobody else seemed to be born into a job like that. Definitely something odd there, imo. As to the Aiel not evolving to desert conditions, 3000 years actually would be enough time for pigment changes to at least begin, going by paleontological and genetic evidence of human settlement in different climates. They don't fully understand how pigment changes occur, beyond 'fast and easily'; they've found evidence in mice that colouration chemicals might be passed on very readily, suggesting that how tanned a human mother is at time of gestation might influence the baby's melanin production, which would certainly explain a lot for human evolution. Or it could be that colouration is just such a naturally varied thing that different environments produce changes to the average of a population surprisingly quickly. But anyway, this is all fairly new thinking and the odds of RJ knowing about it at the time are slim, so it's probably irrelevant lol.
  15. It seems like the general consensus is 'possible but unlikely', which is sort of the conclusion I came to about it. Honestly, I don't really expect it to play a part in AMoL or anything; the only real foreshadowing I can think of to do with it would be the times Lews Therin thought about how he'd 'let the world burn to hear her laugh again' or whatever. So I don't think it's very likely; it would just be a pretty cool twist.
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