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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Chapter 11


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And further down the spiral we go. i almost wish this thread would get locked. It has gone so far from the original topic, that to me it is really not worth reading anymore. This was to be a good discussion about chapter 11 not the fact if mat got raped by tylin, and what the defination of what rape is. And thats what the last 2 pages of posts have really been about.

 

I'm really sorry about this.

 

I felt the same way about the thread back on page one or two, to be honest with you. Really sorry that it has happened and although this post protracts it even further I'm sorry about it. I too almost wish it would be locked and two threads set up, one for actual discussion of the relevant text another for bitching - be it at each other or BS.

 

You could contact the mods and ask them to move/delete the unwanted posts.

 

The mods were making a number of the posts Rocky is referring to ;)

 

What does it mean to "make a number"?

 

The mods were keeping a tally of some sort?

 

Who are the mods you're referring to? Am I doing something wrong here that I aught to know about?

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And further down the spiral we go. i almost wish this thread would get locked. It has gone so far from the original topic, that to me it is really not worth reading anymore. This was to be a good discussion about chapter 11 not the fact if mat got raped by tylin, and what the defination of what rape is. And thats what the last 2 pages of posts have really been about.

 

I'm really sorry about this.

 

I felt the same way about the thread back on page one or two, to be honest with you. Really sorry that it has happened and although this post protracts it even further I'm sorry about it. I too almost wish it would be locked and two threads set up, one for actual discussion of the relevant text another for bitching - be it at each other or BS.

 

You could contact the mods and ask them to move/delete the unwanted posts.

 

The mods were making a number of the posts Rocky is referring to ;)

 

What does it mean to "make a number"?

 

The mods were keeping a tally of some sort?

 

Who are the mods you're referring to? Am I doing something wrong here that I aught to know about?

 

 

The mods were posting aswell. And i think it has somethign to do with keeping it along the pg13 rules of the forum thats all

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Ah, I see, fair enough. That was something I touched upon earlier when I stated that this is a book that RJ knew would be read by young people anyway and I didn't break any karma sutra pg 13 rules or anything. In Scotland you get sex education in primary five, which is about 8 or 9 years old anyway so I think was within the bounds of anatomical discussion as opposed to full on sexy bubbles territory. Possibly I said a naughty word, happens from time to time as although I don't use swear words maliciously I sometimes do as part of my vernacular.

 

Anyway, I must say it is a little bit weird feeling having someone post that they know the mods are watching you! The walls have ears and all that is fair enough but to have actually communicated with a wall (so to speak) and then relayed that onto the forum is, eh, different! Ha, well.

 

So the general consensus (so far) seems to be that a duel will take at least days, probably weeks and possibly months to be approved? I honestly read that section and thought that the difference would be that duels would have to be conducted at business hours, so no more 4 am outside the pub duels! I thought the Seanchan would be fairly quick with their governance.

 

What do you think then, no Galgan V Mat duel on the horizon? That was my initial thought: Mat would challenge Galgan to a duel. Galgsy would have to say yes because he is most likely as prideful as anyone else in WoT and a blademaster to boot. Plus Mat has only got one eye and no heron marked blade to worry about.

 

Possibly Tuon would intercede and state that Mat is Prince of The Ravens, the husband of the Empress, may she live forever, and most certainly not to be duelled with. Or Mat would plain kill Galgan and in doing so win the respect of Ebu Dar and the low-bloods.

Edited by Rocky_Outcrop
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Ah, I see, fair enough. That was something I touched upon earlier when I stated that this is a book that RJ knew would be read by young people anyway and I didn't break any karma sutra pg 13 rules or anything. In Scotland you get sex education in primary five, which is about 8 or 9 years old anyway so I think was within the bounds of anatomical discussion as opposed to full on sexy bubbles territory. Possibly I said a naughty word, happens from time to time as although I don't use swear words maliciously I sometimes do as part of my vernacular.

 

Anyway, I must say it is a little bit weird feeling having someone post that they know the mods are watching you! The walls have ears and all that is fair enough but to have actually communicated with a wall (so to speak) and then relayed that onto the forum is, eh, different! Ha, well.

 

So the general consensus (so far) seems to be that a duel will take at least days, probably weeks and possibly months to be approved? I honestly read that section and thought that the difference would be that duels would have to be conducted at business hours, so no more 4 am outside the pub duels! I thought the Seanchan would be fairly quick with their governance.

 

What do you think then, no Galgan V Mat duel on the horizon? That was my initial thoughts too, Mat would challenge Galgan to a duel. Galgsy would have to say yes because he is most likely as prideful as anyone else in WoT and a blademaster to boot. Plus Mat has only got one eye and no heron marked blade to worry about.

 

Possibly Tuon would intercede and state that Mat is Prince of The Ravens, the husband of the Empress, may she live forever, and most certainly not to be duelled with. Or Mat would plain kill Galgan and in doing so win the respect of Ebu Dar and the low-bloods.

 

Yea it's a weeks dealio. Nobility will have different rules and therefore may get it done quicker, no telling.

 

And ahhh, Scottland, that explains some. In the US, it's grade 6 or 5, depending on the state, however you can opt out of it. However (Oddly enough) PG 13 means you don't discuss it at all, generally speaking. This country is Odd.

Edited by Vardarmus
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I didn't mean they are counting anything. Just that certain mods such as Yoniy0 and Luckers were making posts concerning the quality of writing that you didn't feel had a place in this thread. Was just pointint that out in response to FSM. Meant to be funny more than anytihing so no worries!

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Not to encourage this discussion, but y'all know your mental and physical reaction to something aren't necessarily the same, right?

 

Ever laughed out loud at a funeral?

 

Women have been known to experience la petite morte during a rape, it's a physical reaction, it doesn't mean they like it. The shame of rape is compounded for many women because this is misunderstood.

 

It also explains how a woman can rape a man. His body responds without his brain's consent.

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Not to encourage this discussion, but y'all know your mental and physical reaction to something aren't necessarily the same, right?

 

Ever laughed out loud at a funeral?

 

Women have been known to experience la petite morte during a rape, it's a physical reaction, it doesn't mean they like it. The shame of rape is compounded for many women because this is misunderstood.

 

It also explains how a woman can rape a man. His body responds without his brain's consent.

 

I'm pretty sure everyone except one guy gets that.

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Not to encourage this discussion, but y'all know your mental and physical reaction to something aren't necessarily the same, right?

 

Ever laughed out loud at a funeral?

 

Women have been known to experience la petite morte during a rape, it's a physical reaction, it doesn't mean they like it. The shame of rape is compounded for many women because this is misunderstood.

 

It also explains how a woman can rape a man. His body responds without his brain's consent.

 

I'm pretty sure everyone except one guy gets that.

who is the lucky guy i would love to make him an acquaintance.
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OK good point, well explained. You're probably right. It's a shame then that this is the best possible result.

 

No it's not the best possible result, if you don't like the content of this thread then stop posting to it and start a new one with a specific title.

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Wow. I think the tangent that this thread has gone off on is a testament to how disapointing this aMoL excerpt was.

 

I am also amazed that people do not understand that a man can be raped by a woman. Physiological consent and psychological consent are not the same thing.

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I didn't mean they are counting anything.

No, just having trouble to sift through everything. And... I think this is the time to wrap up the rape discussion. We've said what there was to say, now move on.

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Wow. I think the tangent that this thread has gone off on is a testament to how disapointing this aMoL excerpt was.

 

I am also amazed that people do not understand that a man can be raped by a woman. Physiological consent and psychological consent are not the same thing.

 

On Topic:

 

I really hope the Petra thing won't just be dropped. I mean, that's kinda huge in my eyes. So I wonder if that means Valen will return!!!! With his mighty colorful capes of awesomeness!

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Wow. I think the tangent that this thread has gone off on is a testament to how disapointing this aMoL excerpt was.

 

I am also amazed that people do not understand that a man can be raped by a woman. Physiological consent and psychological consent are not the same thing.

 

On Topic:

 

I really hope the Petra thing won't just be dropped. I mean, that's kinda huge in my eyes. So I wonder if that means Valen will return!!!! With his mighty colorful capes of awesomeness!

 

Actually, I think it bodes poorly for dear old Valan, or at least for our chances of seeing him. I mean, if his traveling menagerie is in Ebou Dar and doing well, why is Petra working a gate? If the circus is not in town, then Petra must have left it for some reason. Considering the gold Mat gave to him and Clarine before he left, it is an odd turn of events.

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Wow. I think the tangent that this thread has gone off on is a testament to how disapointing this aMoL excerpt was.

 

I am also amazed that people do not understand that a man can be raped by a woman. Physiological consent and psychological consent are not the same thing.

 

On Topic:

 

I really hope the Petra thing won't just be dropped. I mean, that's kinda huge in my eyes. So I wonder if that means Valen will return!!!! With his mighty colorful capes of awesomeness!

 

Actually, I think it bodes poorly for dear old Valan, or at least for our chances of seeing him. I mean, if his traveling menagerie is in Ebou Dar and doing well, why is Petra working a gate? If the circus is not in town, then Petra must have left it for some reason. Considering the gold Mat gave to him and Clarine before he left, it is an odd turn of events.

 

I remember the good ole circus master saying how he wanted to get enough canvas to cover the whole show. Maybee thats what happend and they are now set up in EbuDar, and Petra was just sick of the way things were. Or someone knew that Tuon was with the circus and the Seanchan took them all and Petra is the only one left.

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I was thinking that Petra could be useful if Mat needs to get out of town and Petra's working one of the gates. Since Mat didn't speak to Petra we don't yet know where his loyalties lie. Working for the Seachan is just another job, maybe, so Mat might be able to get out by bribing him or just simply because they know each other.

 

That is if Mat isn't there to assume his role of Prince of the Ravens, in which case he wouldn't have to get out.

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I'm interested in seeing how Rand, nynaeve and Egwene took the news of Mat's marriage and I'm also interested in seeing how he convinced them to let him go alone.

 

He only needs to convince Rand and that could have been as easy as "Trust me".

 

Lol that's true

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When the three Seanchan soldiers tried to get into Luca's circus without paying, all the men in the menagerie came to help the money taker, including Petra. When the Seanchan Standardbearer came to diffuse the situation and punish the three, she tried recruiting the men there.

 

A ripple of head-shaking ran through the assembled men, and some, seeing that no trouble was likely now, began slipping away. Petra was one of those.

..........

Performing paid better than soldiering, and you avoided the risk of people sticking swords in you.

Mat had slipped a fat purse to Petra and Clarine, too, but that was friendship, to help them buy their inn a little sooner.

 

So they save every penny in hopes of buying an inn, and for some reason Petra is no longer working for the menagerie and has taken a lower paying job as a soldier in Ebou Dar, despite his usual non-violent nature. I wonder what the story is here? Did Luca's circus get disbanded, or did he and the Anhills have some kind of falling out? I got the feeling that soldiering is one of the last professions he'd choose, if he had a choice. Perhaps they consider performers property in Seanchan and had no liking for becoming da'covale.

 

He could end up being helpful to Mat in some way while he's in Ebou Dar. At the very least he's got some part to play, or he wouldn't have been mentioned.

 

 

 

Wacky theory: Luca has been raised to the Blood due to his aid in hiding Tuon from would-be killers, and one of the Blood cannot run a circus because it's not socially acceptable.

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When the three Seanchan soldiers tried to get into Luca's circus without paying, all the men in the menagerie came to help the money taker, including Petra. When the Seanchan Standardbearer came to diffuse the situation and punish the three, she tried recruiting the men there.

 

A ripple of head-shaking ran through the assembled men, and some, seeing that no trouble was likely now, began slipping away. Petra was one of those.

..........

Performing paid better than soldiering, and you avoided the risk of people sticking swords in you.

Mat had slipped a fat purse to Petra and Clarine, too, but that was friendship, to help them buy their inn a little sooner.

 

So they save every penny in hopes of buying an inn, and for some reason Petra is no longer working for the menagerie and has taken a lower paying job as a soldier in Ebou Dar, despite his usual non-violent nature. I wonder what the story is here? Did Luca's circus get disbanded, or did he and the Anhills have some kind of falling out? I got the feeling that soldiering is one of the last professions he'd choose, if he had a choice. Perhaps they consider performers property in Seanchan and had no liking for becoming da'covale.

 

He could end up being helpful to Mat in some way while he's in Ebou Dar. At the very least he's got some part to play, or he wouldn't have been mentioned.

 

 

 

Wacky theory: Luca has been raised to the Blood due to his aid in hiding Tuon from would-be killers, and one of the Blood cannot run a circus because it's not socially acceptable.

Personally, I think that's a really great theory.

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Great excerpt. Overall, Brandon has done an amazing job.

 

I agree that Sanderson does not have Mat down. Too much fake exaggeration at times, however Mat is the most complex character to write and I don't think any other author could write Mat to sound like RJ's Mat.

 

I think Soreila and the Aiel are a bit off, but very minor. As for the rest of the characters, they are bang on.

 

Wow, it is not until Chapter 11 is when Mat pretty much catches up to Rand/Perrin at the end of book 12.

 

What I am dissapointed is that the Kindle/digital version will not be released Jan 8th. Time to come to the 21st century, the digital age.

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What I am dissapointed is that the Kindle/digital version will not be released Jan 8th. Time to come to the 21st century, the digital age.

Ah, yes, we talked about that quite a lot someplace else. If you guys want to talk about it some more, I don't see a reason why you shouldn't, but please open a new thread for that and let this one deal with the excerpt in question. Thanks!

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I can't believe after 4+ pages of reading no one brought up Petra as being a Seanchan guard at the gate when Mat enters the city. Were he and his wife spies? We've seen what a great refuge Valan Luca's show has been to nearly all the main characters. And if not, then it means that Luca reversed course and went right back through all the towns and places he and the show had already been through at a distinct lack of a draw. (after all, how many times are you going to the circus in a year?) I agree that the identification was way off. Should have been more like, "It was Petra! Petra, of all people! How under the light had the man and his wife gone from wanting an Inn to being in Ebou Dar?"

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I can't believe after 4+ pages of reading no one brought up Petra as being a Seanchan guard at the gate when Mat enters the city. Were he and his wife spies? We've seen what a great refuge Valan Luca's show has been to nearly all the main characters. And if not, then it means that Luca reversed course and went right back through all the towns and places he and the show had already been through at a distinct lack of a draw. (after all, how many times are you going to the circus in a year?) I agree that the identification was way off. Should have been more like, "It was Petra! Petra, of all people! How under the light had the man and his wife gone from wanting an Inn to being in Ebou Dar?"

 

I agree....but your gripe is an actual plot point that may well be explained. If there is no sufficient explanation that is important enough to do justice to this little detail then you are absolutely correct - this is another thing destroyed by BS. I'm holding my breath and hoping though.

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