Sanderson Moments

[Agitel]

Speaking of saidared, and th speculations if it's Sanderson or Jordan-discussion...

 

Winters Heart, ch. 2 Taken: "Even when they Perrined him, Faile nearly always received the honorific from the Two Rivers men".

 

Case closed, I say. It doesn't matter who wrote it; Jordan has shown that he could have done it himself.

 

There is no speculation really, that entire Hinterstrap/Verin section is known to be Brandon. As I said above, I don't have a huge problem with that particular sentence even. It is all about the portrayal of Mat and extremely forced humor through that portion of TGS. The "saidared" part is usually mentioned as the highlight of that. It comes down to feel, we never have Saidar used in that way throughout the entire series and it felt very awkward when I read it. Others can disagree, that is fine. Again I just find it hilarious when people brush aside any and all criticism of BS when he has acknowledged the issues and struggling with certain characters.

 

My personal opinion is that I found the Hinterstrap and Verin section awkward, but I've really no complaints over the use of "saidared".

[The Fisher King]

Speaking of saidared, and th speculations if it's Sanderson or Jordan-discussion...

 

Winters Heart, ch. 2 Taken: "Even when they Perrined him, Faile nearly always received the honorific from the Two Rivers men".

 

Case closed, I say. It doesn't matter who wrote it; Jordan has shown that he could have done it himself.

 

There is no speculation really, that entire Hinterstrap/Verin section is known to be Brandon. As I said above, I don't have a huge problem with that particular sentence even. It is all about the portrayal of Mat and extremely forced humor through that portion of TGS. The "saidared" part is usually mentioned as the highlight of that. It comes down to feel, we never have Saidar used in that way throughout the entire series and it felt very awkward when I read it. Others can disagree, that is fine. Again I just find it hilarious when people brush aside any and all criticism of BS when he has acknowledged the issues and struggling with certain characters.

 

My personal opinion is that I found the Hinterstrap and Verin section awkward, but I've really no complaints over the use of "saidared".

 

I have to admit, "Saidered" jumped right off the page at me. And not in a good way.

 

I have seen a lot of good points raised on both sides. Cadsuane is never even mentioned one single time before book seven.- and shes a legend? Huh? Usually, as I'm discussing in the AMOL Forum, I HATE that kind of thing, yet, Cads is one of my favorite characters. Weird, I know.

 

There are also great examples listed of Jordan using phrases such as "Out-Aes Sedaied", "Perrined " and I myself have even mentioned before how in FOH Mat saying "Things are really getting hairy" jolted me in an uncomfortable way.

 

BUT, I guess for me it just comes down to "Feel." Does that reveal a bit of inherent prejudice? Yes. Am I proud of that? No.

 

But "Bloodknives" and "Dreamspikes" and the "Field of Merrilor" and "Sleete" just come off sounding like they are written by a young man who grew up watching Matrix Movies whereas "Fades" and "Callandor" and "Illian" and "Dumai's Wells" and "Gareth" sound to me like they were written by an older, more subtle, layered, seasoned, experienced writer.

 

I'm sorry :(

 

 

Fish

[sleepinghour]

A flash of red cloth, like the blood of a dead rabbit in the snow, moved through the kitchens. Egwene froze as Katerine, wearing a dress with crimson skirts and yellow trim, spotted her. The Red's mouth was thin-lipped, her eyes narrow. Had she seen Egwene and Laras walk off?

 

Laras froze.

Aside from the crazy simile and the word-repetition thing (a trademark), I want to know when Katerine became a Tinker.

I searched the Kindle edition of ToM to see how often everyone "froze" or "paused" and got back 80+ results. It's definitely one of Brandon's writing quirks.

 

I think what bothers me about stuff like this isn't that Brandon wrote something poorly, it's that it should have been caught in the editing process. I hope AMoL doesn't disappoint in that regard.

[Terez]

Right, it's not difficult to do word frequency analysis. Try 'continued' as well. There are more, but I think that one is the worst I think. (It's not like I've searched every word; I just search the ones that stick out as being overused.) The Theoryland premium search is awesome; you can search all the books at once, or search only RJ's books, or only Brandon's books (each book has a check-box).

[a5m]

Mat is certainly no scholar. In fact, Mat is pretty much a country bumpkin that probably gave his parents all sort of problems when it came to reading and writing.

 

He readily admits that he "reads some books sometimes" though we have never actually seen him do so with in the story line. We have seen him read the occasional note. (Like Moraine's letter to Thom.)

His apparent writing is limited to some notes and the back history needed for the raid.

 

I have no problem with Mat attempt at using a "new word" to him in an improper way and Saidered sounds about right for him right along side "out Aes Sedai each other".

[GB]

one of the best Sanderson Moments for me was when Nynaeve was talking to Rand in ToM before she leaves for the WT :p and give him a hug

 

rocks

[NetSlider]

Speaking of saidared, and th speculations if it's Sanderson or Jordan-discussion...

 

Winters Heart, ch. 2 Taken: "Even when they Perrined him, Faile nearly always received the honorific from the Two Rivers men".

 

Case closed, I say. It doesn't matter who wrote it; Jordan has shown that he could have done it himself.

 

There is no speculation really, that entire Hinterstrap/Verin section is known to be Brandon. As I said above, I don't have a huge problem with that particular sentence even. It is all about the portrayal of Mat and extremely forced humor through that portion of TGS. The "saidared" part is usually mentioned as the highlight of that. It comes down to feel, we never have Saidar used in that way throughout the entire series and it felt very awkward when I read it. Others can disagree, that is fine. Again I just find it hilarious when people brush aside any and all criticism of BS when he has acknowledged the issues and struggling with certain characters.

 

My personal opinion is that I found the Hinterstrap and Verin section awkward, but I've really no complaints over the use of "saidared".

 

I have to admit, "Saidered" jumped right off the page at me. And not in a good way.

 

I have seen a lot of good points raised on both sides. Cadsuane is never even mentioned one single time before book seven.- and shes a legend? Huh? Usually, as I'm discussing in the AMOL Forum, I HATE that kind of thing, yet, Cads is one of my favorite characters. Weird, I know.

 

There are also great examples listed of Jordan using phrases such as "Out-Aes Sedaied", "Perrined " and I myself have even mentioned before how in FOH Mat saying "Things are really getting hairy" jolted me in an uncomfortable way.

 

BUT, I guess for me it just comes down to "Feel." Does that reveal a bit of inherent prejudice? Yes. Am I proud of that? No.

 

But "Bloodknives" and "Dreamspikes" and the "Field of Merrilor" and "Sleete" just come off sounding like they are written by a young man who grew up watching Matrix Movies whereas "Fades" and "Callandor" and "Illian" and "Dumai's Wells" and "Gareth" sound to me like they were written by an older, more subtle, layered, seasoned, experienced writer.

 

I'm sorry :(

 

 

Fish

 

Well, "saidared" was def something to encounter. It sounds even weirder on audiobooks I think. But when it comes to Mat, come on, things really did get pretty hairy after that.

[Guest PiotrekS]

Mat is certainly no scholar. In fact, Mat is pretty much a country bumpkin that probably gave his parents all sort of problems when it came to reading and writing.

 

He readily admits that he "reads some books sometimes" though we have never actually seen him do so with in the story line. We have seen him read the occasional note. (Like Moraine's letter to Thom.)

His apparent writing is limited to some notes and the back history needed for the raid.

 

I have no problem with Mat attempt at using a "new word" to him in an improper way and Saidered sounds about right for him right along side "out Aes Sedai each other".

 

That makes me recall Mat's letter to Elayne as another very Brandon moment...And considering that it wasn't the first Mat's letter that we've seen and the first one was nothing like that..

 

Things like that should have been caught and corrected in the editing process.

[sleepinghour]

one of the best Sanderson Moments for me was when Nynaeve was talking to Rand in ToM before she leaves for the WT :p and give him a hug

 

rocks

I liked that scene too. I saw someone complain it was out of character for Nynaeve to hug Rand, but she also did that in TEotW when everyone met up in Caemlyn.

[Feral]

Every time I see "blast" or "blasted". I think Semirhage uses it at one point? I mean seriously, a Forsaken saying "blasted"? It really annoys me to be honest. I know it sounds silly but it seems sort of disrespectful to me. It's not exactly hard to use bloody or flaming or whatever instead is it? So why not do it?

[Ala Rubra]

Every time I see "blast" or "blasted". I think Semirhage uses it at one point? I mean seriously, a Forsaken saying "blasted"? It really annoys me to be honest. I know it sounds silly but it seems sort of disrespectful to me. It's not exactly hard to use bloody or flaming or whatever instead is it? So why not do it?

 

I believe Cadsuane also used "blackened" sometime in tGS in her thoughts. It was very strange, I must admit.

[Alric]

I've noticed several "jarring" expressions in RJ's books on this reread. It's not that they're that bad, but I (subjectively) just don't think they fit. Since I'm not up to Brandon's books yet I can't speak for the frequency, but its not a new thing at least.

[Kahsm]

Mat is certainly no scholar. In fact, Mat is pretty much a country bumpkin that probably gave his parents all sort of problems when it came to reading and writing.

 

He readily admits that he "reads some books sometimes" though we have never actually seen him do so with in the story line. We have seen him read the occasional note. (Like Moraine's letter to Thom.)

His apparent writing is limited to some notes and the back history needed for the raid.

 

I have no problem with Mat attempt at using a "new word" to him in an improper way and Saidered sounds about right for him right along side "out Aes Sedai each other".

 

That makes me recall Mat's letter to Elayne as another very Brandon moment...And considering that it wasn't the first Mat's letter that we've seen and the first one was nothing like that..

 

Things like that should have been caught and corrected in the editing process.

 

Perhaps then Brandon was fixing an RJ wrong. As a5m points out, why shouldn't he be linguistically challenged?

[Agitel]

Mat is certainly no scholar. In fact, Mat is pretty much a country bumpkin that probably gave his parents all sort of problems when it came to reading and writing.

 

He readily admits that he "reads some books sometimes" though we have never actually seen him do so with in the story line. We have seen him read the occasional note. (Like Moraine's letter to Thom.)

His apparent writing is limited to some notes and the back history needed for the raid.

 

I have no problem with Mat attempt at using a "new word" to him in an improper way and Saidered sounds about right for him right along side "out Aes Sedai each other".

 

That makes me recall Mat's letter to Elayne as another very Brandon moment...And considering that it wasn't the first Mat's letter that we've seen and the first one was nothing like that..

 

Things like that should have been caught and corrected in the editing process.

 

Perhaps then Brandon was fixing an RJ wrong. As a5m points out, why shouldn't he be linguistically challenged?

 

Mat has the memories and tactical and linguistic education of all the men he has memories of; he's able to slip in and out of different dialects of the Old Tongue, and many of his memories include times when the Common Tongue was in wide use as well. Now, that's not to say Mat has to adopt the manner of writing or speaking of those memories, but the education in how to write should be there.

[MrMatrim]

The one which really jarred me out of the story was in TGS, in the last Mat chapter, where he thinks about the "devil bench". I don't think the word "devil" has EVER been used in the WoT until that point. Devils, demons, etc. just don't seem to fit into the WoT mythos to me.

[Ala Rubra]

Mat is certainly no scholar. In fact, Mat is pretty much a country bumpkin that probably gave his parents all sort of problems when it came to reading and writing.

 

He readily admits that he "reads some books sometimes" though we have never actually seen him do so with in the story line. We have seen him read the occasional note. (Like Moraine's letter to Thom.)

His apparent writing is limited to some notes and the back history needed for the raid.

 

I have no problem with Mat attempt at using a "new word" to him in an improper way and Saidered sounds about right for him right along side "out Aes Sedai each other".

 

That makes me recall Mat's letter to Elayne as another very Brandon moment...And considering that it wasn't the first Mat's letter that we've seen and the first one was nothing like that..

 

Things like that should have been caught and corrected in the editing process.

 

Perhaps then Brandon was fixing an RJ wrong. As a5m points out, why shouldn't he be linguistically challenged?

 

Mat has the memories and tactical and linguistic education of all the men he has memories of; he's able to slip in and out of different dialects of the Old Tongue, and many of his memories include times when the Common Tongue was in wide use as well. Now, that's not to say Mat has to adopt the manner of writing or speaking of those memories, but the education in how to write should be there.

 

Am I the only one who remembers Mat specifically saying that he wasn't going to take the time to rewrite the letter with the correct spelling? If I am, am I somehow misremembering that scene...

 

It was clearly supposed to be a rough draft that Mat sent because he was tired of Thom's mocking.

[The Fisher King]

The one which really jarred me out of the story was in TGS, in the last Mat chapter, where he thinks about the "devil bench". I don't think the word "devil" has EVER been used in the WoT until that point. Devils, demons, etc. just don't seem to fit into the WoT mythos to me.

 

That got me, too :(

 

 

Fish

[Terez]

Yeah, but he didn't need two drafts for the letter in ACOS.

 

I have to admit, that letter made me lol, despite it being a little OOC.

[The Fisher King]

I just thought of this is another thread but it fits here, and it REALLY bugged me:

 

 

EVERY character over the age of 30 repeatedly referring to EVERYONE ELSE as "Son."

 

I seem to remember the guy in Chapter One, Tam, Rodel and Gareth being among the most heinous offenders.

 

 

Fish

[LeeM.Erickson]

Even Morgase uses "son" to Galad, but to be fair he IS her stepson

[Manscher]

Didn't Tam refer to Perrin as "Son" back in TSR? or did he use the term "Lad" back then?

[Luzburg]

Was the letter not due to Mat wanting the reader to think it was from some idiot, but that the intended target would get straight away that it was Mat taking the piss?

 

I've not read it in a while but that is what I recall.

 

 

Also there is not that much difference. I think if you were not looking for it and it just said Robert Jordan on the cover you wouldn't see half as many of these things.

[Luckers]

The one which really jarred me out of the story was in TGS, in the last Mat chapter, where he thinks about the "devil bench". I don't think the word "devil" has EVER been used in the WoT until that point. Devils, demons, etc. just don't seem to fit into the WoT mythos to me.

 

This bugged me a little too, because RJ used these words as the basis of the Trolloc tribes.

 

Ahf'frait = Afrit

Al'ghol = Ghoul

Bhan'sheen = Banshee

Dha'vol = Devil

Dhai'mon = Demon

Dhjin'nen = Djin

Ghar'gael = Gargoyle

Ghob'hlin = Goblin

Gho'hlem = Golem

Ghraem'lan = Gremlin

Ko'bal = Kobold

Kno'mon = Gnome

 

I mean it's plausible they were named after the myths... but yeah it strikes wrong with me.

[The Fisher King]

The one which really jarred me out of the story was in TGS, in the last Mat chapter, where he thinks about the "devil bench". I don't think the word "devil" has EVER been used in the WoT until that point. Devils, demons, etc. just don't seem to fit into the WoT mythos to me.

 

This bugged me a little too, because RJ used these words as the basis of the Trolloc tribes.

 

Ahf'frait = Afrit

Al'ghol = Ghoul

Bhan'sheen = Banshee

Dha'vol = Devil

Dhai'mon = Demon

Dhjin'nen = Djin

Ghar'gael = Gargoyle

Ghob'hlin = Goblin

Gho'hlem = Golem

Ghraem'lan = Gremlin

Ko'bal = Kobold

Kno'mon = Gnome

 

I mean it's plausible they were named after the myths... but yeah it strikes wrong with me.

 

Wow, I have to admit I am surprised, but "devil" was used twice just in TEOTW alone. Chapters 18 and 26.

 

 

Fish

[Suttree]

The one which really jarred me out of the story was in TGS, in the last Mat chapter, where he thinks about the "devil bench". I don't think the word "devil" has EVER been used in the WoT until that point. Devils, demons, etc. just don't seem to fit into the WoT mythos to me.

 

This bugged me a little too, because RJ used these words as the basis of the Trolloc tribes.

 

Ahf'frait = Afrit

Al'ghol = Ghoul

Bhan'sheen = Banshee

Dha'vol = Devil

Dhai'mon = Demon

Dhjin'nen = Djin

Ghar'gael = Gargoyle

Ghob'hlin = Goblin

Gho'hlem = Golem

Ghraem'lan = Gremlin

Ko'bal = Kobold

Kno'mon = Gnome

 

I mean it's plausible they were named after the myths... but yeah it strikes wrong with me.

 

Wow, I have to admit I am surprised, but "devil" was used twice just in TEOTW alone. Chapters 18 and 26.

 

 

Fish

 

It was only used in tEoTW, there is twice a mention of the wind whipping up "dustdevils". Ideal Seek doesn't show any others...