Elayne and Mat's Terangreal

[jsbrads]

suspicious...

we see her get a terangreal she can't study with weaves and next thing you know she has made some imperfect replicas?! how did she study it? how can she know anything about it?

 

I let this slip the first time I read the last book, but I just realized, that this is not a leap of faith, it is the book going illogical. Until now there was a rhyme and reason to all that happened and each person for the most part acted within the laws of the universe. with the the exception of a few things, most of them DO's minions abilities... but at least RJ apologized for it at the beginning of the series when he described the ability of the Fades to travel, and even the forsaken couldn't understand.

 

Explain to me how Elayne did it, or lose any order to the book.

[Xcorpyo001]

suspicious...

we see her get a terangreal she can't study with weaves and next thing you know she has made some imperfect replicas?! how did she study it? how can she know anything about it?

 

I let this slip the first time I read the last book, but I just realized, that this is not a leap of faith, it is the book going illogical. Until now there was a rhyme and reason to all that happened and each person for the most part acted within the laws of the universe. with the the exception of a few things, most of them DO's minions abilities... but at least RJ apologized for it at the beginning of the series when he described the ability of the Fades to travel, and even the forsaken couldn't understand.

 

Explain to me how Elayne did it, or lose any order to the book.

 

 

She did it by magic.

Maybe the terangreal's effect is on the man that wears it, and not on itself.

Or maybe it's activated only when in contact with a person, so she could study/replicate it while it wasn't touching anyone.

[LazyMonk]

There's no description of how Elayne is "studying" objects. Perhaps she's reading residues from the object's creation, meaning, She surrounds the the object with weaves that are not touching it.

 

Myself, I find Aviendha's Talent much more unlikely.

[Sharaman]

We don't know how.

She kept hitting it with different weaves and noted the effects on the weaves and then tried to duplicate those effects?

Or she managed to figure out the alloys used, and the weaves if any, that went into the crystalline structure of the foxhead.

Or she messed around with crystalline structures until she got some of the foxhead's effects?

She's done this before with the a'dam. Experimental lab science and reverse engineering seems to be something she's good at.

But for her unseemly appetites for power and for male attention, Elayne could have been a great scientist.

Just like Meirin, who um shares some of those aforementioned appetites.

[Xcorpyo001]

There's no description of how Elayne is "studying" objects. Perhaps she's reading residues from the object's creation, meaning, She surrounds the the object with weaves that are not touching it.

 

Myself, I find Aviendha's Talent much more unlikely.

 

Which one?

[mackoY-kun]

This is what I understand of the Foxhead Medallion;

- The teranreal disrupts weaves directed "on the wearer", not on the teragreal.

- she can channel if she is the one touching the original. (so she can probably delve it)

- her replicas are flawed, that it does not allow her to channel when touching them.

 

When someone else is wearing it (i.e. Mat), she cannot delve it because the weave will be directed at Mat. But when it is in her possession she can probably direct weaves at it.

[LazyMonk]

Myself, I find Aviendha's Talent much more unlikely.

 

Which one?

ter'angreal 'reading'...She has more than one?

[rcfleming4]

I think Aviendha just has the one Talent.

 

It's just an aspect of the series. Talents are 'rare', but not for the main characters. Weaves can do virtually anything you can think of.

 

Without ta'veren, Talents, and inexplicably discovered weaves where would we be?

[Goldstar]

This is what I understand of the Foxhead Medallion;

- The teranreal disrupts weaves directed "on the wearer", not on the teragreal.

- she can channel if she is the one touching the original. (so she can probably delve it)

- her replicas are flawed, that it does not allow her to channel when touching them.

 

When someone else is wearing it (i.e. Mat), she cannot delve it because the weave will be directed at Mat. But when it is in her possession she can probably direct weaves at it.

Actually, I just finished this part on my re-read of TOM. She cannot touch the medallion directly with her weaves, even when she is holding it.

[Xcorpyo001]

Myself, I find Aviendha's Talent much more unlikely.

 

Which one?

ter'angreal 'reading'...She has more than one?

 

 

Well, she was the first to actually create a gateway instinctively, and to Seachan to boot(without even knowing that place existed).

And 'deleting' the gateway in Ebou Dar and giving Moridin a WTF moment was priceless.

I've read many old posts around here, about Egwene or one of the Salidar wonder girls rediscovering Travelling, but Egwene thought about it after she saw Rand doing it, he also explained the male way to do it, and a Forsaken filled the blanks.

I think Aviendha has a Talent for Travelling(there's an Ashaman in the BT that has a knack for it as well), or at least her Talent is more complex that is seems(creating lost waves, understanding ter'angreal, deconstructing waves, etc).

[DemandredFO]

Besides, Cadsuane has one similar to Mat's, so its obviously possible to replicate it. Elayne just rediscovered how.

[David Selig]

It's explained to a degree at the start of Chapter 23 of ToM. Apparently Elayne used "the senses of her Talent", whatever that means, to study the foxhead, and somehow "she could feel the weaves that had been used to create it".

[Xcorpyo001]

Besides, Cadsuane has one similar to Mat's, so its obviously possible to replicate it. Elayne just rediscovered how.

 

 

I think someone might want to change the title of the thread.

"Mat's, Elayne, and the DF's Terangreal". After all, she already lost one to the DO. But then again, they want a fair fight, so both sides should have the same tech.

She still has problems with production. Her versions aren't as good as the original, thank the Light for that.

[Finnssss22]

Myself, I find Aviendha's Talent much more unlikely.

 

Which one?

ter'angreal 'reading'...She has more than one?

 

Avi has a few talents actually. Reading ter'angreal is one of them but she also has the very rare talent for reading a weave's residue and being able to reproduce that weave, even if she didn't see it "spun".

As someone else noted, she quite possibly could have a talent for Traveling as well.

[Kahsm]

Same way Verin delved the Ogier in the stedding I'd guess.

[MasterAblar]

 

Well, she was the first to actually create a gateway instinctively, and to Seachan to boot(without even knowing that place existed).

 

 

That's just the pattern telling Rand to get a move on and get laid.

[Swithin]

Avi has a few talents actually. Reading ter'angreal is one of them but she also has the very rare talent for reading a weave's residue and being able to reproduce that weave, even if she didn't see it "spun".

 

It's been a while since I've read the relevant section, but wasn't residue-reading implied to be much more common amongst the Aiel Wise Ones than Aes Sedai? Aviendha didn't seem to consider it a Talent at all, more like a specialist skill.

[Mr Ares]

Same way Verin delved the Ogier in the stedding I'd guess.

Verin didn't delve the Ogier in the stedding, she touched him. The symptoms of an absence of the soul can be felt even by non-channelers.

[Sharaman]

Avi has a few talents actually. Reading ter'angreal is one of them but she also has the very rare talent for reading a weave's residue and being able to reproduce that weave, even if she didn't see it "spun".

 

It's been a while since I've read the relevant section, but wasn't residue-reading implied to be much more common amongst the Aiel Wise Ones than Aes Sedai? Aviendha didn't seem to consider it a Talent at all, more like a specialist skill.

Yes. Any woman who's good with needlework etc., can be taught according to Avi. Begs the question why a Maiden of the Spear would be good with a needle, of course.

BTW, this implies the Cadsuane can unpick weaves with a disdainful sniff and a wave of her fingers.

[Turin Turambar]

Does she even ned to wave her fingers?

[Finnssss22]

Avi has a few talents actually. Reading ter'angreal is one of them but she also has the very rare talent for reading a weave's residue and being able to reproduce that weave, even if she didn't see it "spun".

 

It's been a while since I've read the relevant section, but wasn't residue-reading implied to be much more common amongst the Aiel Wise Ones than Aes Sedai? Aviendha didn't seem to consider it a Talent at all, more like a specialist skill.

Yes. Any woman who's good with needlework etc., can be taught according to Avi. Begs the question why a Maiden of the Spear would be good with a needle, of course.

BTW, this implies the Cadsuane can unpick weaves with a disdainful sniff and a wave of her fingers.

 

 

I think you're confusing the residue reading talent with the Aiel Wiseone's practices of "unweaving" weaves.

Two different things.

[Clouded]

Avi has a few talents actually. Reading ter'angreal is one of them but she also has the very rare talent for reading a weave's residue and being able to reproduce that weave, even if she didn't see it "spun".

 

It's been a while since I've read the relevant section, but wasn't residue-reading implied to be much more common amongst the Aiel Wise Ones than Aes Sedai? Aviendha didn't seem to consider it a Talent at all, more like a specialist skill.

Yes. Any woman who's good with needlework etc., can be taught according to Avi. Begs the question why a Maiden of the Spear would be good with a needle, of course.

BTW, this implies the Cadsuane can unpick weaves with a disdainful sniff and a wave of her fingers.

 

I always took the section to mean anyone could be taught to pick apart a weave, just like anyone could pick out embroidery. People just have different levels of skill with it. Here's the passage.

 

“It was necessary,” Aviendha cut in. A babble erupted from the mounted Aes Sedai crowding around her and Vandene, but she glared at them and raised her voice over theirs. “I know the dangers, Vandene Namelle, but it was necessary. Is this another thing you Aes Sedai cannot do? The Wise Ones say any woman can learn, if she is taught, some women more and some less, but any woman, if she can pick out embroidery.” She did not quite sneer. Not quite.

 

 

As for the ability to Read residues, it appears this is a rare talent, even among Wise Ones.

 

Aviendha did not quite include her in the exasperated look she gave the other sisters. “This leaves no residue,” she said patiently. Too patiently. “The residues of a weave this large might be read two days from now.”

 

Merilille snorted, a very strong sound to come from that slight body. “That is a rare Talent, girl. Neither Teslyn nor Joline has it. Or do you Aiel wilders all learn that as well?”

 

“Few can do it,” Aviendha admitted calmly. “But I can.” That produced a different sort of stare, from Elayne as well; it was a very rare Talent. She did not seem to notice. “Do you claim that none of the Shadowsouled can?” she went on. The tightness of her shoulder under Elayne’s hand said she was not so cool as she pretended. “Are you such fools that you leave tracks for your enemies to follow? Any who could read the residues could make a gateway to this spot.”

[rcfleming4]

Oh so Aviendha does have multiple Talents. Both rare, even among Talents. Which are themselves rare. Super.

[jsbrads]

This is what I understand of the Foxhead Medallion;

- The teranreal disrupts weaves directed "on the wearer", not on the teragreal.

- she can channel if she is the one touching the original. (so she can probably delve it)

- her replicas are flawed, that it does not allow her to channel when touching them.

 

When someone else is wearing it (i.e. Mat), she cannot delve it because the weave will be directed at Mat. But when it is in her possession she can probably direct weaves at it.

 

thanks

 

You are right-just reread that section. When Elayne is holding the original, she can channel at others and at the terangreal.

[PoInT]

I thought it only blocked weaves when it touched the wearers skin.

 

I see someone already said that my bad