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Who is most likely to turn traitor?


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Like most stories, the last battle portion of the last book is likely gonna go like this: set-up, opening blows, period of confidence, turnabout/betrayal, period of dispair/desperation, dawning of realization/going all-in, climax, aftermath. I may off, RJ and BS may supurise me, but it's very likely that there will be some kind of turnabout or betrayal during the 11th hour. Who on the light side (or that we currently presume to be on the light side) do you think is most likely to cause this betrayal?

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I reckon that Alanna's already switched sides. I can't think of any other reason why she would've left the Stone of Tear and gone to (we think) Arafel.

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The Taim/Taimidin/Gaymidin Asha'man. They're still technically on the Light Side, as far as the characters know.

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Eliminating everybody who is already a known DF but in Rand's camp?

 

1. I suspect Nynaeve. But, she isn't going to betray Rand for the DO, but for Lan. I suspect he's her first real boyfriend.

 

2. Logain is getting more and more suspicious to me as time goes by. In any dramatic film (e.g. Dead Poet's Society, Saturday Night Fever,) the character who gets an emotional push is the one who gets killed. I think this whole Taim vs Logain thing is starting to look too artificial and convenient. Taim is the distraction for Logain's major betrayal, along with Min's viewing.

 

3. Itulrade: there's a theory that everybody whose ever met Graendal has been Compulsed.

 

4. Any Seanchan: according to their prophecies, they will capture Rand, complete the Corenne, destroy the Shadow's forces, and finally release him to fight the DO one-on-one.

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I don't think there will be a betrayal, besides Taim and his forces, but we've seen that coming for a while now, so it shouldn't surprise us (it might surprise some characters in the book though). Besides, they major betrayals already happened 3000 years before the story started.

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Egwene..she had compulsion put on her by Halima asking her to oppose the dragon...only that makes sense in light of her foolish actions.

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Egwene..she had compulsion put on her by Halima asking her to oppose the dragon...only that makes sense in light of her foolish actions.

 

Actions? The only one I see is opposing Rand's plan to break the seals, and even then Rand has hinted that he planned for her to oppose it.

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Egwene..she had compulsion put on her by Halima asking her to oppose the dragon...only that makes sense in light of her foolish actions.

 

Actions? The only one I see is opposing Rand's plan to break the seals, and even then Rand has hinted that he planned for her to oppose it.

 

Please do not feed the trolls.

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Egwene..she had compulsion put on her by Halima asking her to oppose the dragon...only that makes sense in light of her foolish actions.

 

Actions? The only one I see is opposing Rand's plan to break the seals, and even then Rand has hinted that he planned for her to oppose it.

 

Please do not feed the trolls.

Since Halima bought the farm wouldn't her compulsion have ended?

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Egwene..she had compulsion put on her by Halima asking her to oppose the dragon...only that makes sense in light of her foolish actions.

 

Actions? The only one I see is opposing Rand's plan to break the seals, and even then Rand has hinted that he planned for her to oppose it.

 

Please do not feed the trolls.

Since Halima bought the farm wouldn't her compulsion have ended?

 

Hard to say, Morgase is still feeling symptoms long after Rahvin was killed. The trick Rand used at Natrin's Barrow was probably tied to the nature of balefire, not compulsion itself.

Edited by Toy'varen
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Morgase is still feeling symptoms..I find it hard to believe that a Forsaken with as much access to Egwene as Halima would not use compulsion when she was atleast using the OP to make her head hurt.

Edited by XXX47
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Egwene..she had compulsion put on her by Halima asking her to oppose the dragon...only that makes sense in light of her foolish actions.

 

Actions? The only one I see is opposing Rand's plan to break the seals, and even then Rand has hinted that he planned for her to oppose it.

 

Please do not feed the trolls.

 

In some circles, I am a 7th degree black belt der'sul'troll. :)

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Egwene. And that's not trolling, it is a reasonable guess based on, 1. Arthurian legend; and 2. Egwene's comments about betraying him, again and again. Plus the complusion.

 

In reality, I think the chances are 80-20 against, but it would be interesting.

 

If it is Egwene, she will go from being my least favorite character to probably my most favorite.

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Morgase is still feeling symptoms..I find it hard to believe that a Forsaken with as much access to Egwene as Halima would not use compulsion when she was atleast using the OP to make her head hurt.

 

I also hold this view.

 

I also think Bashere will turn out to be a DF, considering Min's viewing of 'something dark' in the images she sees, and suggests that he may die or turn against Rand. (CoT24)

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Matt - evidenced by his comments after travelling through the portal stones.

That is often overlooked, I think.
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Matt - evidenced by his comments after travelling through the portal stones.

That is often overlooked, I think.

 

I think because everyone loves Mat whereas most people hate Egwene so people would prefer it to be Egwene. Though there is the foreshadowing to suggest Egwene as well. Maybe they will both betray Rand in different ways, at different times.

 

In Egwene's case by simply by not agreeing with Rand and going different ways at the FoM would be a betrayal if looked through at the time she was doing the Accepted test but wouldn't be now (at the time she went through the testing she was still very close to Rand and was a long way from being Amyrlin with all the attendant responsibilities that brings). So in Egwene's case this might be what happens something that no longer feels like a betrayal to Egwene the Mother but when looked at much earlier through the eyes of Egwene the novice would have felt like a betrayal.

 

In Mat's case I think it will be a more serious betrayal but other than the portal stones I have no real evidence for it. But it would be cool to see. I'd like to see how all the Mat worshippers take it; whether they blame Sanderson for 'wrecking' Mat or whether they blame Rand and say that he 'deserved' it. Because the way some people worship Mat is just over the top and I would like to see how these people deal with their hero being less than heroic.

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Egwene..she had compulsion put on her by Halima asking her to oppose the dragon...only that makes sense in light of her foolish actions.

 

Actions? The only one I see is opposing Rand's plan to break the seals, and even then Rand has hinted that he planned for her to oppose it.

 

Please do not feed the trolls.

Since Halima bought the farm wouldn't her compulsion have ended?

No. If she had used Compulsion on Egwene, that was months before Rand balefired her. Even with Choedan Kal, he can't erase her actions so far back in the past.

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It's been a while since I read the books, and I'm just at The Shadow Rising on my re-read, so correct me if I'm wrong... But don't the compulsion weaves disappear once the dude who did the compulsion dies? I mean, that's how Rand confirmed Graendal's "death", right?

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Almost everyone. I'm convinced that the nature of what Rand will have to do to defeat the Dark One may be so nuts that almost anyone on the Light side will try to stop him or otherwise prevent it from happening.

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He confirms it by balefiring the person, who laid the compulsion, so hard that he/she never actually placed it in the first place.

 

Compulsion seems to stay in place even after a person is death, as XX47 mentions, Morgase is still under compulsion, but since Rahvin aint around, it's not really "active".

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It's been a while since I read the books, and I'm just at The Shadow Rising on my re-read, so correct me if I'm wrong... But don't the compulsion weaves disappear once the dude who did the compulsion dies? I mean, that's how Rand confirmed Graendal's "death", right?

Balefiring Aran'gar and Delana erased their actions from the last several hours, maybe even a few days (depending on how powerful Rand's balefire was). If they had died in any other way or if the Compulsion has happened earlier than the period erased by the balefire (like in Morgase's case, who still has some traces of Rahvin's Compulsion remaining, despite his death by balefire), it would've remained in place.

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Egwene. And that's not trolling, it is a reasonable guess based on, 1. Arthurian legend; and 2. Egwene's comments about betraying him, again and again. Plus the complusion.

 

In reality, I think the chances are 80-20 against, but it would be interesting.

 

If it is Egwene, she will go from being my least favorite character to probably my most favorite.

 

Mine too.. especially if she gets balefired by Rand in response.

 

If you think about it there is no foretelling which says that Egwene will survive the last battle. Logain is destined for great glory and Mat was/is going to be a part of an outliner series so he will survive.

Edited by XXX47
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I'm curious as to whether it will be a betrayal in the sense of someone will turn out to have been working against Rand, possibly against the light, for a long time, or whether it will be a betrayal in the sense of someone doing the wrong thing for what they believe are the right reasons.

 

I think Perrin would have been a likely candidate- he has as much admitted that if Faile is in danger, he will do anything to protect/ save her. However, I think that, with the long Shaido-capture arc that we've already had, that his thoughts were probably a build up to his alliance with the Seanchan, rather than a sign of his turning to the Dark. I don't see it as likely that we will have another similar storyline again in the final book, it would be repetitive. I suppose the situation could be reversed, and Faile will be put in a position where Perrin is placed in danger. Once again, though, I think its unlikely, mostly because Faile has had very little to do with Rand, less than many of the more minor characters, in fact. I would have thought that the betrayal will be something designed to hit Rand hard, emotionally, or at least attempt to, and of all the main/ major secondary characters, Faile is the least likely.

 

Logain is an interesting one. We've not seen him for a while. It may well be that, as people have suggested, he will turn out not to be the hope of the Asha'man, but a traitor, and another will emerge as a likely leader for post-TG male channelers.

 

Egwene is one of the most likely working from the Arthurian legend parallels. In addition, she has shown that she will oppose Rand if she believes it to be for the greater good, and Aran'gar may well have been laying Compulsion on her during the time she had access to her- in other words, if she is compelled to act against Rand, given that she has already shown she is willing to do so, it may be that her followers do not question her, provided her demands are not too crazy and obviously against the Light, as she will not be acting far out of the ordinary. She has an army, and several female channelers at her disposal. Whilst Rand has given indications that he may not trust her anyway, and whilst they are not particularly close any more, she could cause a good deal of trouble for Rand. I'd put her quite high on the list.

 

Someone mentioned Nynaeve- I don't know, I think this is unlikely- she cares about Rand, as her friend. She has pleaded with Rand to help Lan, but even when he kept saying "Not yet", even implying he might let Lan sacrifice himself, she stayed with Rand to help him, perhaps for his sake, perhaps for the world's sake. I think she would be devastated, I think she would grieve, but I don't think she would betray Rand to the Dark for Lan's sake.

 

Mat, I honestly don't know about... Possibly, but I'm going to leave him off the list for now, until I've had the chance to do some rereading.

 

Overall, Egwene is looking the most likely, though part of me suspects it won't be her that betrays Rand- or at least, not only her.

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