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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Gordar

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About Gordar

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    Sharan farmer
  • Birthday 08/16/1981
  1. Impossible. Rand may think it'd be the best sollution, but if the DO could be killed (or wasn't somehow necessary) the creator wouldn't have just locked him away outside the pattern. This either means the DO is equal to the creator, in which case I doubt Rand will ever have the power to kill him, as Rand himself isn't even close to the power the creator must have posessed when he created the world/universe, or, the DO is necessary, which would eventually mean the end of everything if the DO ever got killed, since I don't think the creator implemented a plan B (linear time) in case his plan A (circular time) failed. If the creator had done that, he might have skipped plan A altogether, or we would have seen that outcome ages ago (keep in mind that the DO getting access to the world & him being resealed has already happened countless times).
  2. Don't worry, we'll get another chance to panic in about 400 years from now. :) http://2012quest.com/mayan-calendar/new-research-shows-mayan-calendar-ends/
  3. @mbeuhner Mat's situation does raise an interesting question which I should have asked in my last post. I'm not even going to bother trying to deny your source, as I'm pretty sure a 18th century noble knows more about English/common law than I do, but I'm going to assume the linked chapter & the quoted apply to common people. Since you know which sources to check, I'm going to ask you if you can find something relating to princesses. Does a princess that marries a foreign prince/king still owe allegiance to her father? It'd be rather silly considering the fact that they might end up in enemy territory if their husbands declare war on the princess' fathers. I'm asking this because Mat's situation is more similar to that of a princess (and an independence fighter, but I'll get to that below) than that of a commoner. Even though I'd like to know, I don't think that it really matters, since military strength practically nullifies the law(s) in question, otherwise George Washington, Thomas Jefferson & many of the other founding fathers would still be considered subjects of the king of England, even after they had won their war of independence (they were all born in the king's dominion, even if they were born on American soil, that American soil was still part of the king's dominion). Unless I'm mistaken (& honestly, I could be, cause I really don't know that much of the aftermath of the American revolution) they were no longer considered to be subjects of the English king. If Elayne presses her claim on the prince of Ravens, she could end up pissing off Tuon & that might not be such a good idea, especially since she currently doesn't even have a capital.
  4. Because they didn't have citizens & nationalities like they do right now in the 17th and first half of the 18th century either & the people in the 3rd age WOT universe don't have the technology to implement something like that or to check it. Also, I'm not sure it's supposed to be similar to the 17th and 18th century, more like the 15th and 16th century. Guns are just being invented, people don't sail around the world yet (besides the Seanchan & Atha'an Miere, but the last don't build colonies & don't intend to conquer), Kings and queens still rely on nobles actually governing estates, & I could probably enter a few more things that generally don't apply to the 17th and 18th century, if I really tried to find them in the books. Anyway, like I already said, the idea of nationality, although growing, didn't really exist in the 17th and first half of the 18th century either amongst commoners. The American and French revolution are essentially what gave the common masses the idea that they belonged to something bigger than a lord, lady or a piece of farmland. All of that is fine and dandy, but without a proper system of civil servants to keep check on everyone, to register everyone's birth, parents, etc. the entire idea is nice, but meaningless. You could essentially decide to be American on one day & be British or French (if you spoke the language) the next. You see, it's like money. I urge you to grab your wallet and pull out a bill. How much do you hold? $5.=? $10.=? (assuming you're from the US) I can only guess. How much is it worth? This I CAN answer. Only as much as you and the person you give it to believe it's worth. Essentially, you're holding a piece of paper worth slightly more than a piece of toilet paper. Sure, there's all kinds of fancy and expensive protective measures on the bill, but if you add the cost of the machinery and the cost of implementing it on the bill and divide that by the amount of bills printed each day, you might be surprised about how little an actual dollar bill is worth. Bills are only worth anything as long as both parties believe it's worth anything. If you don't believe it's worth anything, you won't give it to a salesperson to pay for anything. If the salesperson doesn't believe it's worth anything, he or she simply won't accept it. The same applies to a nationality before they were registered. Towns and cities were small scale & probably reasonably registerable. Land was also relatively easy, as a local lord or lady kept check on who rented the land. Besides that, it's all a matter of belief. If Mat believes he is a subject, he's a subject, as long as Elayne believes the same thing. If not, then it simply becomes uncheckable and it simply becomes a am, am not or do, do not match. Fun, but on the bigger scale meaningless.
  5. I find this quote intriguing. I have always been uneasy with the idea that the Dark One's influence is a definitive aspect of any Age on the Wheel. The Dark One is outside the Pattern, opposed to it, seeking it's destruction. The Wheel will of course respond and attempt to adapt to any of the Dark One's incursions, that's part of its design. However, I can't help but prefer the idea that the Pattern the Wheel is trying to weave doesn't require the Dark One at all, and in fact, isn't intended to include him. The Dark One may only have a window during Ages in which the manipulation of the Pattern/matter/energy/spacetime makes a breach in his "prison" possible, but is his involvement a guarantee every turning? This quote implies that the world may have been heading towards a catastrophic, civilization-destroying war at the end of that Age, Dark One or no. This would be a war in which both factions would wield devastating power through channeling. Perhaps the Dark One isn't needed at all, perhaps the design of the ending of that Age is simply that it ends in such a war. We don't know the origin of this quote. Is this RJ? Is this Brandon, but in response to RJ's notes? Or is it 100% Brandon's invention? Even if we ever got it confirmed that this was RJ's idea, all we can do is speculate. But this quote does open the door to a new possibility -- one I like a good deal better than the idea that the Wheel causes the Dark One's involvement. I wonder if Brandon would ever answer any questions about this. Not even questions about whether he wrote it, but whether the Wheel intends the Bore or something similar to be created, or is merely ready to respond to such events happening. When I first generated this idea at work, it all came together so much more eloquently. I hope I've explained myself well. I do believe the DO is a necessary part. Not as a creature/entity that should be able to influence the world every time the AOL ends, but more as a (unreliable) failsafe if the AOL isn't ending the way it was originally intended. Kind of like a ta'veren who pulls threads of the pattern into a certain direction if they stray too much. Sure, the AOL was far from perfect (the idea that it was has always kind of bugged me, as I do not believe perfection is possible), but even with it's flaws, it's not certain there would have been a downfall as big as the downfall we've had when the DO became free & indirectly broke the world. The difference between a ta'veren and the DO is that ta'veren are still part of the pattern and the pattern essentially decides who/what/where/when the ta'veren are & do, while the DO cannot be influenced by the pattern itself once it has gained access to the world/universe. The sad thing is, we don't know enough about the ages to be able to say what was, will be & what is supposed to be. We know, or at least assume that the 1st age is our age, but what about the 7th age, 6th, age, 5th age and 4th age? We've seen tidbits of the 4th age, but it doesn't really give us a big picture of what it was like. Even our knowledge of the 2nd age is very limited. We don't know if the 3rd age has progressed the way it was supposed to progress or if it's a mere caricature of what the 3rd age is supposed to be. Until we know, it's impossible to say if de DO is essential or not & our opinions are merely based on our own views on the world & the ages. I think it's obvious that my view of the world the story takes place in differs slightly from your (Agitel's) view of the world. Does this mean I believe the DO is freed every 2nd age? No, there might not be a need every 2nd age. Heck, as far as we know he might have been given access to the world at the end of the 4th age or other ages in different cycles, or he might not have been given access at all during some cycles. I prefer to think of him as the red emergency button. You don't press it when there's no need and when a machine is doing it's routine the need to press the button may arise at different moments or during some cycles of the machine's routine, not at all, if the machine is well calibrated. Still, it's an essential part of the machinery. Now imagine the red emergency button doesn't just cut power, but instead releases a 'nasty' gnome that removes whatever is messing with the machine. The gnome sadly doesn't stop there. Oh no, he tries to pull the entire machine apart. It's the employees' job to recapture the gnome & place him back into his box (or wherever it is he resides). In the WOT universe, the DO is the nasty gnome, the pattern and/or wheel of time itself the machine and the people the employees. Unlike the machine, the pattern is capable of pressing the red emergency button itself. I agree with you that the impression is given that the AOL bubble would have burst eventually, but we don't know if it would have been enough of a catastrophe to cause such a decline in culture & civilization. Sorry for this off topic post.
  6. A piece of advice. Write your theory on notepad, wordpad, Mircosoft Word or whatever offline program you have at your disposal. Save your theory, then copy the text & paste it here on this board. It'll limit the time you'll have to spend online & even if your browser fails, all you have to do is try to paste it again.
  7. This thread makes no sense at all >.<. The OP uses the modern concept of citizenship in a medieval/renaissance world. Even though citizenship existed, it cannot be compared to modern citizenship. 1. Citizenship only applied to people living in a city (bourgeoisie (French and can be translated into english as middle class) or bürger (German and is translated into citizen))
  8. Nice Tylee discussion, but we don't even know what Perrin is being helped with. As far as we know someone might have decided to help Perrin with his tent, even though Perrin believes he can do it by himself or with the people already helping him, while at the same time others in Perrin's camp could use the person's help a lot more. If this is the case, it might be any female or even any non-human male character (I can only think of Loial, trollocs and animals though & I doubt trollocs and animals will tell Perrin they're fond of him)
  9. I don't think the damane issue will be resolved by the end of aMoL. I do believe that the Seanchan will stop trying to leash the marath-damane in Randland after a failed 2nd attack on the WT. Mat will probably try to convince Tuon that they have enough damane to defend themselves against any possible attack from the marath-damane. I might also be persuaded to believe that the Aiel damane are freed, if someone could give me a decent scenario, cause my own scenarios are crappy at best and would be rather illogical. The reason I believe the wise ones might be an exception has to do with the fact that unlike most other channelers, the power of the wise ones is limited by the power of the clan chiefs and that the wise ones aren't a group that consists solely of channelers. The non-channeleres amongst the wise ones limit the power of the channelers ever further. Something similar applies to the Sea Folk windfinders, but the difference between the Sea Folk and the Aiel is that the Aiel wouldn't be afraid to talk to the Seanchan & that they might even be able to negotiate on nearly equal terms (they've got a very strong force). They are aware of what will happen if the future as they know it isn't changed, which might give them even more incentive to negotiate with the Seanchan. Besides that, I don't think we'll see many changes concerning the damane. Will Tuon channel before the end? I doubt it. Tuon doesn't even know how to & she'd probably have to be thought by another channeler before she could even channel a drop of water or a small flame. Even if she wanted to learn, which I personally doubt, it'd take more time than she currently has, assuming she could find a safe spot in ebou Dar & someone willing to teach her. Will Tuon take an oath on the oath rod? No. Egwene might like it, but not if the oath meant she (Tuon) would have to serve Rand. The quote clearly states he 'shall bind the nine moons to serve him'. If we take the binding literally, then we should take the serve him part literally as well. If we don't take the binding literally, then she's already bound to Rand, through Mat & she also serves him, once again, through Mat. I don't think the empress will leave Ebou Dar, unless it's to return to Seanchan, after a large army has already reconquered parts of it. She certainly isn't going to walk around in enemy territory now that she's empress. She doesn't even have an heir yet. I doubt anyone in the possession of a binder is gonna go to Ebou Dar to force her to take an oath. I don't honestly believe anyone oin Randland thinks of taking such an action, and even if he or she did, that person would quickly come to the conclusion that it'd be suicide. Besides, it'd be useless if Tuon hasn't managed to touch the source yet.
  10. I can see something like you just wrote happening, in one of the outriggers, but not in aMoL. The same applies to Tuon suddenly having a change of heart about channelers. I can accept that she'll let the channelers not within her territory uncollared after the second attack on the WT (which I believe will end in a big failure, at least according to Tuon), but she'd also forbid them from entering her country. Those channelers who are already collared will stay collared, probably for the rest of their lives. It's like slavery in real life. Trans-Atlantic slave trade has been banned in the US since 1808 but in 1850 the Fugitive Slave Act was passed, which allowed southern slave owners to retrieve their escaped slaves, even if they fled to northern states. There was a war between 1861 and 65 (I think anyone who lives in the US knows that at least as well & probably even better than I do) & slavery was officially abolished. Still, in 1963 Martin Luther King Jr. felt the need to have his 'I have a dream' speech. If everything had been ok by then mr. King probably wouldn't have felt the need to hold his speech. Like I already said, I can imagine that Tuon will allow Aes Sedai to walk around uncollared, as long as they stay out of her Empire, but I don't think we'll see many more changes in this last book. This might fit perfectly with Aviendha's vision. The same applies to Berelain. Until the last battle has been fought & won, Tear, or any other nation will have other things on their minds than invading Mayene. I wouldn't even be surprised if Tear loses a lot of it's forces during the battle, since they don't really have much experience when it comes to fighting darkspawn and AFAIK they don't have outstanding generals either. So I assume that Mayene will be safe for years to come & there'd be no need for Berelain to swear fealty to Tuon. I can foresee a few scenarios that might happen in an outrigger, assuming that one will be written. 1. Berelain swears to Tuon & nobody else. Tuon will have to appease the other High Blood in some way, otherwise it'll lead to jealousy & that wouldn't be a very healthy situation for Berelain or Tuon (advancing someone in such a way will offend the other High Blood & if Galgan can send assassins without repercussion then I think it's safe to say the other high blood might send (more skilled) assassins as well.) 2. Berelain becomes like all the other members of the High Blood. She might have a chance to survive, it wouldn't be much better than having to deal with Tear. 3. The bald statements are made out of spite (I have to admit I read the Dutch versions of the books up until ToM, so I'd first have to find the Dutch quotes & then I'd have to find the corresponding english quotes on the internet) & the foreshadowing is a red herring. or it means something entirely different. There's simply too little time left to add these things. I've read (on this board) that the LB alone will take 180 pages, then there's Merrilor & the preparation for the last battle (if there's still time for that) & probably a whole lot of things I'm currently not even thinking about. Long story made short: Even though it is possible that Berelain will join the Seanchan or will at least swear fealty to Tuon in the future, I don't think it'll happen in aMoL.
  11. Does it really matter if Berelain is one of Hawkwing's descendants or not? If she made a claim for the throne, no matter if her claim was true or not, or even if she tried to raise her own position within the Seanchan Empire too fast, she'd simply end up dead. She'd be seen as competition & the blood have ways of dealing with potential dangers. Tuon herself killed her own siblings because they were a threat, so I really don't think she'd allow another to become a real threat to her position. Keep in mind that Tyrn sur Paendrag Mashera was the son of Laiwynde & that Laiwynde was born in FY 964, while Luthair Paendrag Mondwin was born in FY 967. This means that Berelain's claims are better than Fortuona or any of her ancestor's claim, if her ancestors were truly descended from Laiwynde (assuming the eldest child inherited & not the eldest son). Berelain will only be accepted and/or tolerated as long as she doesn't acquire too much power within the Seanchan Empire. As soon as she does, she becomes a threat, even to Fortuona herself.
  12. Probably Rand. I don't think we'll get a POV from one of the 3 Asha'man that are currently with Ituralde & we know Rodel himself hasn't used anything that nobody else should know about. I've checked the list of ter'angreal on the wiki, but none of them seem to be particularly useful or Rand has never been close to them & cannot possibly posess them. The sa'angreal used by men (that we know of) are difficult to hide or inaccessible without the proper ter'angreal. Which leaves us with an angreal or the previously mentioned dagger. Aviendha found out about the dagger in KoD & then gave the dagger back to Elayne. Elayne hasn't seen Rand between KoD & the fields of Merrilor (as far as I remember anyway), so it's unlikely that it's in Rand's posession. The fat man angreal could still be an option. Still, if the POV is from someone serving the shadow, it could be anything. Someone talking to Olver, Arlen Nalaam or Androl. Loial Someone to Alanna Dunno, maybe Mat is sent out to the WT in order to demand its surrender along with a rather large army that includes Sul'dam & damane, instead tries to find a diplomatic sollution, is initially ignored or treated like crap in his opinion, until he points out that there's a relatively large army at his disposal that also has channelers amongst them. He propably wouldn't intend to use the army, just create a shock effect so that the Aes Sedai will get off their high horses, but it'll have exactly the opposite effect & eventually it'll lead to a full scale battle, which he cannot stop. The light preserve us part would be said when the Aes Sedai notice(s) the amount of channelers amongst the enemy army, just before all hell breaks loose. Since Mat's diplomatic aproach hasn't been very successful & since Tuon said exactly the same thing when Mat proposed to go to Tar Valon, knowing how Mat thinks about Damane & not believing he'd be successful, Mat becomes pissed & starts scowling. This probably isn't going to happen, but it'd fit nicely with the quote from day 11. Since it's nearly impossible to place these quotes into context, anything is possible. Galad accidently stumbling across a group of Trollocs that just left the ways to attack place X. Well, if traveling is no longer an option & skimming isn't really an option for large armies either, it's the only remaining option if you quickly want to move from place A to B. (see below) - - Someone talking to a Hero of the Horn. Don't know if it's Birgitte talking to one of her colleagues or if someone is talking to Birgitte. See day 5 Olver to Talmanes. Seriously though, this could be any dominant woman to any male in WOT & we've got a fair share of dominant women in this series. Ways. We've only seen one way until now, the dreamspike. The forsaken fought during the war of power & maybe they know weaves that'll destroy the person trying to create a gate at the moment of it's creation, thus collapsing the gate & eliminating an enemy at the same time. I do not know if such weaves would affect their own gates, but considering the last battle is going to happen soon, I think they'll command their armies & most of them cannot travel through a gateway anyway. Maybe Mat says something to an Aes Sedai. Cadsuane talking to one of the forsaken or a dreadlord, who's trying to scare Cadsuane by showing his/her power/skills. Cadsuane is not impressed. Don't know why a forsaken wouldn't simply (try to) kill Cadsuane, though...
  13. There's returning to the light & there's 'returning to the light'. The first option means you actually try to redeem yourself, while the 2nd option means you've abandoned/betrayed the DO. The 1st option seems nearly impossible to me, but the 2nd option might be possible (very unlikely, but still) if Cyndane manages to acquire her cour'souva box thingy. Here's how it'd go (please keep in mind that I'm not RJ or BS & that my writing skills are crappy at best): Moridin: Soon it'll all end. Cyndane: Yeah yeah, soon you'll rule the newly created world. Moridin: Uhm no. Soon it'll simply all end. Cyndane: What do you mean? Moridin: You don't actually think the Great Lord of the Dark is going to bother recreating a world, do you? Cyndane: Well, yes, that's exactly what I and every other chosen for that matter, thought. Moridin: I'm not sorry to say this at all, but you're wrong! Cyndane: Keeping that & your writings in mind (Analysis of Perceived Meaning, Reality and the Absence of Meaning, The Disassembly of Reason & probably other books as well) I think I finally figured out why you joined the DO. Moridin: Yup, oh, by the way, it's the Great Lord of the Dark, not the Dark One. I guess I'll have to punish you again. Some time later.... Cyndane: I hope that tea party Moridin is having with Demandred will last some time. Hmm, look there, Isn't that my cour'souva laying on the table over there? It is! This is starting to resemble some old EA (Electronic Arts, they'll acquire the rights to make the ... quest games in the very distant future, at least in this reality) holographic game like King's Quest MCLXII which I used to play back in the Age of Legends. Unusual thing laying around on tables & stuff, you only see that in those games. Better use this opportunity while I still can. A while later, somewhere in the blight, Cyndane happily hops southwards. Cyndane; Hmm... now what? I can't just join those weaklings trying to stop Moridin & Co., they'll balefire me as soon as I tell them who I am. Besides, I want power, more power, even more power, yummy, power. Let's hide in the bushes for a moment. *enter private Cyndane moment here* Some time later Cyndane: Where was I? Power! I want it, need it, crave it, etc. etc.. But I certainly won't get it from those fools who think they stand a chance against the DO & I don't think I can return to the DO either, having betrayed him & everything. Do I hear a sound over there? Alanna walks on stage. Cyndane: Hey you there. Aren't you one of those unimportant, nearly unnoticable 3rd age darkfriends? You know, the kind that gives you a dirty feeling just looking at them? Alanna: Yup, I'm Alanna Mosvani, but you can call me Alanna Sedai of the Green/Black Ajah. (merely an idea, not a theory or anything like that, there are different scenario's where Cyndane might meet light serving Alanna alone, but most would require much more writing from my part) Cyndane: I'll call you whatever I... Did you just say Alanna Mosvani? The Alanna Sedai that holds Lews Therin's bond? I think I remember Moghedien saying something along those lines. Alanna: You know Moghedien?!? Cyndane: Well yes, I am one of the Chosen after all. Let's hope Moridin hasn't made it public knowledge yet that I've run away... Alanna: What can i do for you, great mistress? Cyndane: Pass his bond to me. Alanna: Who'se bond? Cyndane: Lews Therin... I mean Rand's bond. Alanna: Okay. (this dialogue would be slightly different if Alanna serves the light) Cyndane: Teehee, now that I have Lews Therin's bond, the light can no longer kill me without risking their precious dragon! Bwahahaha! Now I'm off to Shara, the Isle of the Madmen or Seanchan. Well, let's skip Seanchan, I'm not sure I'd like those a'dam. WAIT! If the DO wins, carving a little kingdom for myself won't be very useful... Drats and double drats & now I actually have to help those fools sealing the bore. They'll probably need some duct tape. It's a good thing I never go anywhere without it. to be continued (but not by me) Maybe she'll survive & flee, maybe she won't. Considering the fact that Rand has been bonded by multiple women, the effect of one of them dying might not be as extreme as it usually is.
  14. I too believe that the world will be destroyed, but I don't think it'll involve a free DO. The destruction of the world is just a small part of the pattern & thus of the wheel. The wheel & pattern never really end, but just like a human life ends, so could the world's life. The soul will be reborn in a new body, just like a human soul. It will probably require some cataclysmic event, but with technology already being reinvented at the end of the age we know as the 3rd age, it's not too far fetched to assume that by the end of the 6th age people actually might have the technology to destroy the world.
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