How could Nynaeve know this?

[Zhipp]

After Nynaeve completed her Aes Sedai test, the Sitters told her to swear never to use Balefire again. She told them she knew no other way to destroy darkhounds. How did she even know to use Balefire against them in the first place? Maybe I'm forgetting something, but she's never faced darkhounds before, has she?

[Luckers]

Nope. I guess we have to presume Rand told her... he did speak of it to Taim, so there is a precedent.

[sleepinghour]

After Nynaeve completed her Aes Sedai test, the Sitters told her to swear never to use Balefire again. She told them she knew no other way to destroy darkhounds. How did she even know to use Balefire against them in the first place? Maybe I'm forgetting something, but she's never faced darkhounds before, has she?

Edit: Sorry, I misread your question. I thought you were asking how Nynaeve knew the balefire weave. It's possible Egwene told her about Darkhounds after the attack in the Waste.

[David Selig]

Maybe Lan told her - he knew from Moiraine balefire should be used to kill Darkhounds.

[Luckers]

Maybe Lan told her - he knew from Moiraine balefire should be used to kill Darkhounds.

 

Actually Moiraine and Lan did not know this, for all that Moiraine used balefire to kill the Pack that was hunting them in tDR. Indeed Lan killed a Darkhound with his sword, and as such had every reason to believe other methods were reliable.

 

Neither of them knew of Darkhounds that took balefire to kill--indeed, so far as we know, only Rand has encountered this type of Darkhound.

 

Check out my thread on Darkhounds: The Wild Hunt; Darkhound Anomalies and the CoT Super Pack

[Zhipp]

Thanks for the replies. I was a little confused, heh. But I guess it is possible she was told "off screen".

[Superhal]

Nynaeve has the ability to use a weave after seeing it once (explained by having a strict teacher while she was a wisdom.) She could have seen the weaves on numerous occasions. It seems like for all the prohibitions against it, they use it 2-3 times per book.

 

Also, the ter'angreal used for AS testing (even the accepted one) shows possible futures. In one of the possible futures, they could know weaves they don't know in the present.

[Kahsm]

I'm going to put forth a CRAZY idea here and suggest that, people might actually learn things at the WT. Obviously they don't teach balefire, but they would teach that nothing else works. Ergo, balefire.

[Superhal]

I'm going to put forth a CRAZY idea here and suggest that, people might actually learn things at the WT. Obviously they don't teach balefire, but they would teach that nothing else works. Ergo, balefire.

 

Or, like in Harry Potter, the teachers have to demonstrate the "forbidden spells" so students know not to do them.

[Stitch]

She used Balefire against the Fades when her Egwene and Elayne were captured on their way to the stone of tear

 

Also remember that when travelling through the ring to become an accepted (not so certain for the aes sedai test), that memories and knowledge were available to her (memories of that life became HER dominant memories making it harder for her to remember it was JUST a test) perhaps the knowledge of what dark hounds were and their strengths + weaknesses came from there.... dont know

[Luckers]

I'm going to put forth a CRAZY idea here and suggest that, people might actually learn things at the WT. Obviously they don't teach balefire, but they would teach that nothing else works. Ergo, balefire.

 

This knowledge is not known in the White Tower.

[WhiskyJack]

Nyenaeve was NOT taught the weave for Balefire. Just like Rand, she could do by "instinct" or something. As Stitch said, she balefired the Fade in tDR.

 

Not sure about Darkhounds though. Well balefire works on everything that is part of the pattern.

[BananaOnDrugs]

If I remember correctly she tried to kill them with fire and lightning in the ter'angreal but it didn't work and since that's pretty much all of an Aes Sedai's arsenal against non-channelers nothing else she knew of could work.

EDIT:I guess she could have tried some air ropes but they wouldn't be killed so w/e. Besides she said only SURE way to kill them...

So she knew how to kill them by simple trial and error.

[Didgya]

Simple answer is just a story error. Or maybe a part was written where Nynaeve learned or was told of balefire and darkhounds and it was edited out or just never made it in the book.

[Sharaman]

Nyn worked out balefire by instinct in TDR, killing a fade. We know that once she's done a weave / seen a weave, she knows it perfectly.

Moiraine worked balefire out from descriptions/ first principles.

Cadsuane recognised the male version on sight in ACoS (she may already have known the female weaves but there's no evidence of that).

 

It's not so difficult to know what it is, I think.

It's a "forbidden weave", not apparently a very, very complex weave - strong channelers can do it fairly easily.

 

Perrin was present in TDR when Moiraine used balefire on Darkhounds, after explaining that he would find them tough to kill through archery.

Perrin then spent time with Nynaeve offscreen in TSR at Tear.

It's possible that he would have described the incident - he's not under any AS omerta and Nyn would certainly have asked him and Mat what they'd been upto.

[Luckers]

Perrin knew Lan killed one with a sword, and he himself killed one, as you mentioned, so this doesn't explain Nynaeve's certainty.

 

The easiest explanation is Rand told Nynaeve off screen (he's the only one that knows about the T2 style Darkhounds that require balefire to kill, though Taim does as well now, as Rand told him).

[Kahsm]

I'm going to put forth a CRAZY idea here and suggest that, people might actually learn things at the WT. Obviously they don't teach balefire, but they would teach that nothing else works. Ergo, balefire.

 

This knowledge is not known in the White Tower.

 

I'm going to assume Warders are taught about Shadowspawn. So they would obviously teach ways to deal with darkhounds. As stated, she would known what doesn't work.

[Hybrid]

I'm going to put forth a CRAZY idea here and suggest that, people might actually learn things at the WT. Obviously they don't teach balefire, but they would teach that nothing else works. Ergo, balefire.

 

This knowledge is not known in the White Tower.

 

I'm going to assume Warders are taught about Shadowspawn. So they would obviously teach ways to deal with darkhounds. As stated, she would known what doesn't work.

 

Wrong.

 

Luckers already pointed this out, but:

 

As far as the White Tower knows, there is only one kind of Darkhound: the weaker version seen in TDR. Lan kills one with his sword, and Perrin kills one with his bow. No balefire required. In fact, Lan actually tells Perrin he can kill one with his bow. Yes, these Darkhounds are difficult to kill through mundane means, but it isn't impossible, because they don't have the T-1000 powers of reformation.

 

The new, stronger Darkhounds had only been encountered (in a battle) by Rand. The only logical explanation, beyond author error, is that Rand mentioned it to Nynaeve offscreen.

[DemandredFO]

Verin could have told her, after all she is a DF and a brown too.

[MatBloodyCauthon]

If I remember correctly she tried to kill them with fire and lightning in the ter'angreal but it didn't work and since that's pretty much all of an Aes Sedai's arsenal against non-channelers nothing else she knew of could work.

EDIT:I guess she could have tried some air ropes but they wouldn't be killed so w/e. Besides she said only SURE way to kill them...

So she knew how to kill them by simple trial and error.

I agree with this actually thats what I was going to say but you saved me from typing it out lol it was simple trial and error because she did use fire and lightning obviously. here's a question for you though why is it that thats the AS main arsenal how come they havent ever thought of using ice like Rand did in Marodon and what Semirage was talkin about pulling the blood from their bodies. that should work with just about everything to lol except maybe the gholem but mat's plan worked pretty good with that little buger

[jsbrads]

Uh, when was a Darkhound killed by Perrin or Lan?

They can't be killed with normal means, that's why they are hard to kill.

Perrin with his bow slowed them down when he hit one with a bow hard enough that it had to reform or whatever.

[balefireruinssteaks]

It's likely that some Aes Sedai know how to create balefire, but are restricted by tradition of the Tower. Different Aes Sedai have stated that some traditions are as strong as oaths. Balefire was put aside during the War of Power, so we can assume that no living Aes Sedai, or even Cadsuane's teachers did not necessarily have people teaching or using balefire. However, Aes Sedai seem to recognize it as soon as they see it. Cadsuane recognizes it, the Sitters recognize it in Nynaeve's testing, and even Egwene figured out what it was when Nynaeve used it on the Myrdraal.

 

Aviendha describes balefire as "a fearsome thing" by its descriptions from the Aiel, so we can assume that there is enough writing that Aes Sedai either know enough of it to recognize it on sight...or some Aes Sedai have secretly (as Moiraine did) worked out how to make balefire.

 

As far as destroying Darkhounds "only by balefire" it seems to me that the theory of Rand talking to Nynaeve about Darkhounds is the only one that really holds up. Nynaeve didn't learn about Darkhounds in the White Tower, and she has not fought any herself. Although Lan may have mentioned them, he would have mentioned that he killed them with his sword...so for her to learn about them and learn that only balefire kills them makes it seem like she spoke to Rand about the upgraded Darkhounds, and just assumed that all Darkhounds are to be killed with balefire.

[Luckers]

Uh, when was a Darkhound killed by Perrin or Lan?

They can't be killed with normal means, that's why they are hard to kill.

Perrin with his bow slowed them down when he hit one with a bow hard enough that it had to reform or whatever.

 

No, Perrin killed it. It went down and did not get up, and Moiraine's balefire went no where near it. Lan kills one off screen--when Moiraine goes to find out whats up with Sammael in Illian, Perrin finds darkhound tracks, and Lan persues it and kills it before it could kill Moiraine--Moiraine states that 'one of Sammael's darkhounds is dead, and Sammael would know that would mean a gaiden, and soon he would go looking for that gaiden's Aes Sedai'... and when Moiraine chastises Lan for following he replies that if he hadn't Moiraine would be dead, so yeah, Lan killed the Darkhound that was following Moiraine.

 

Terminator 2 Darkhounds have only been seen once, in Rhuidean, and only Rand saw them. Normal Darkhounds are hard to kill with a sword, but not impossible.

[Tud]

Well, she has certainly encountered it before..Remember that when she was told by Lan what happened to her boat in POD (I think), she instantly knew what it was and how it worked. not to mention that she knew who'd most likely used it..So, she must have been told off-screen prior to that time.

 

tud

[Hybrid]

Well, she has certainly encountered it before..Remember that when she was told by Lan what happened to her boat in POD (I think), she instantly knew what it was and how it worked. not to mention that she knew who'd most likely used it..So, she must have been told off-screen prior to that time.

 

tud

 

I think you're misunderstanding the argument here. It's based on her explanation that balefire was the only way to kill Darkhounds, not her knowledge of balefire.

 

To add to your post, Nynaeve absolutely knew balefire -- or at least she knew the weave, since she rediscovered it in TDR. I don't think she knew the effect of balefire at that time, so as you stated, she probably learned that off-screen.