Least Favorite Character

[Kahsm]

[...]

first i want to say that iam wih you on this point but

maybe peopel feel insecure or becomes nervous with a female character with a little edge and who also have immense powers

 

As one of the more ardent defenders of Egwene, maybe this will mean something to you coming from me. I don't believe for a second people's hate is about sexism (settle down randsc! it's alright!). I mean Egwene starts out somewhat meek, Nynaeve is the one who you'd think would draw the most ire if it were about gender roles.

 

It starts because she's driven and passionate and not a self-deprecating whiny baby who complains and shrinks away from everything that happens to her. Egwene takes what's delt to her and makes the best of it. But to some it seems you're not a "well rounded" or "flushed out" character, or you don't have a personality of your own, unless you're a whiny little stuck up baby who spends the whole books saying, "but I don't want to be a Lord!". I personally don't see how being blind to the reality of your situation is a commendable trait, but others seem to require it in their favourite characters.

 

After that it's pure confirmation bias. I hate her, therefore everything she does is wrong/bad/stuck up. There are plenty examples, but the best example I remember is the complaint about how she's so dispassionate and doesn't care about all the death in Cairhien while she's on the boat with Elayne. The text clearly says the exact opposite, but don't let that stop people looking for reasons to hate Egwene.

 

 

“I can ignore it because I do not want to think of what the people are going through, because I cannot do anything about it, and because we have to reach Tear. Because what we’re hunting is in Tear.” She was surprised at her own vehemence. I can't do anything about it. And the Black Ajah is in Tear

 

Since you wanted to pull the sexism card, I'll refute it with my personal thoughts Note: I cannot speak for all those who dislike her, just myself.

 

Eggy is disliked not because she's a strong female leader, but because she it a huge hypocrite. She basically spends the first few books learning how AS act and treat the world and how they push people away by acting so arrogantly, while maintaining they know what's best even when they're proven wrong. She sees this, she dislikes it, and wants to make a stand against it. When she finally gets the power to do something about it, she falls right back into what she hated about the AS, only now she sees it differently because she's in charge, and therefore she must be right. I also dislike her idea that Rand is something that needs to be "dealt" with. he's still a friend, as far as I know and heck Ny treats him better nowadays.

I don't remember Egwene ever "hating" the Aes Sedai. She does admit flaws and has changed many things since becoming Amyrlin. I don't see how you think such an institution can be turned around instantly. The compact between the other female channelers will change things drastically over time and that was all Egwene's plan. The fact Egwene saw the benefits of the other female cultures and knew she wanted those things for the Aes Sedai speaks against exactly what you claim, that she has fallen into the old Aes Sedai ways. It's simply not true.

 

I get that you want her to stand on a soapbox and talk about how shitty they all are and point out all their flaws and put down commandments to change everything that's wrong with them. But that's totally ridiculous, particularly because there is still the Hall to deal with. She's not an empress, and even if she was, I think Tuon would have trouble turning all of seanchan around when it comes to leashing if she tried to make a single decree, and she _IS_ an empress.

[Vardar]

I don't remember Egwene ever "hating" the Aes Sedai. She does admit flaws and has changed many things since becoming Amyrlin. I don't see how you think such an institution can be turned around instantly. The compact between the other female channelers will change things drastically over time and that was all Egwene's plan. The fact Egwene saw the benefits of the other female cultures and knew she wanted those things for the Aes Sedai speaks against exactly what you claim, that she has fallen into the old Aes Sedai ways. It's simply not true.

 

I get that you want her to stand on a soapbox and talk about how shitty they all are and point out all their flaws and put down commandments to change everything that's wrong with them. But that's totally ridiculous, particularly because there is still the Hall to deal with. She's not an empress, and even if she was, I think Tuon would have trouble turning all of seanchan around when it comes to leashing if she tried to make a single decree, and she _IS_ an empress.

 

Hating what they do and how they do it, not hating them. Had to reread my statement to make sure I didn't say that. It's not ridiculous, I want her to make moves into that direction, the direction she seems to be heading, as far as I can tell, is AS rule the world by the might of our power, what other people think be damned.

 

As to the Tuon quote, she'll have trouble, but the very foundations of their empire is built on that fact. The foundations of the AS should be, servants of all right? Not,we rule the world behind the scenes because we have the "Might" to do so and are always right. So two different situations. Although most of Tuon's issues will be people tyring to kill her and all other Suldam, not accepting that Suldam can channel. (I think).

 

And even with the Hall, Eggy has a chance to move towards change, she isn't, in my eyes. She is moving towards healing the rifts in the Ajah however, points to her for that. Also, what "flaws" has she changed? Accepting older channelers wasn't one of the flaws I mentioned.

[Suttree]

, I want her to make moves into that direction, the direction she seems to be heading, as far as I can tell, is AS rule the world by the might of our power, what other people think be damned.

 

This really should be moved to an Egwene thread if it continues. The fact is she has called them fools and already done more to reform the WT than any Amrylin in centuries(admitted that doesn't mean as much as it should). She quite clearly says they must change and has been working to bring that about.

 

ToM

The world as it was cannot be ours any longer," Egwene said softly, not wanting the Wise Ones to overhear. "Was it ever? The Black Tower bonds Aes Sedai, the Aiel no longer rever us, the Windfinders have hidden their best channeled from us for centuries and are becoming increasingly belligerent. If we try to hold too tightly to all of this, we will become tyrants or fools, depending on how successful we are. I accept neither title."

 

That directly contradicts your assertion. That is all I will post here, if people wish to discuss let's resurrect a Eggy/as thread.

[Kahsm]

If accepting everyone no matter their age or strength or previous failures!, partnering with other channelers while allowing them to remain distinct, accepting male channelers including personally letting Logain go to Rand, and letting Aes Sedai retire more publicly instead of the current culture of slinking away into obscurity isn't enough, we can assume there will be changes regarding marriage and families, since she's obviously big on that stuff. And you can be certain that some of those marriages and families will be with non channelers, which will certainly create more links between Aes Sedai and the "outside world". How Egwene deals with Elayne as queen will also be important in that respect and we've yet to see a real clash there to judge that.

 

And I'm sure I missed some of her major future-focused reforms. Obviously she can't just decree that they'll no longer insist they're right even when proven wrong. That's simply a culture shift that will take a long time to make. And I don't remember where Egwene has been blatantly party to that behaviour.Just because you as the reader knows something doesn't mean other characters have been given enough evidence to get over their plausibility filter. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, as they say.

 

Suttree is likely correct, but that's what admins are for right? Move away.

[Vardar]

If accepting everyone no matter their age or strength or previous failures!, partnering with other channelers while allowing them to remain distinct, accepting male channelers including personally letting Logain go to Rand, and letting Aes Sedai retire more publicly instead of the current culture of slinking away into obscurity isn't enough, we can assume there will be changes regarding marriage and families, since she's obviously big on that stuff. And you can be certain that some of those marriages and families will be with non channelers, which will certainly create more links between Aes Sedai and the "outside world". How Egwene deals with Elayne as queen will also be important in that respect and we've yet to see a real clash there to judge that.

 

And I'm sure I missed some of her major future-focused reforms. Obviously she can't just decree that they'll no longer insist they're right even when proven wrong. That's simply a culture shift that will take a long time to make. And I don't remember where Egwene has been blatantly party to that behaviour.Just because you as the reader knows something doesn't mean other characters have been given enough evidence to get over their plausibility filter. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, as they say.

 

Suttree is likely correct, but that's what admins are for right? Move away.

 

Her telling Rand that she would not let him break the seals (Although I'll admit this may have occured for a reason on Rand's side, but she still blindly believed she was right without digging further information).

Her Blaming Rand for Asha'men bonding AS, and her refussal to accept that it can occur. (That one really pissed me off actually).

 

Just to name 2, Anyway if you want to debate Eggy hate, that's fine we can go to another thread, however I had no intention of debating Eggy and why I hate her. I merely explained to another poster why I disliked her and why it wasn't sexism. You choose to grab my opinion and tell me how I was wrong...

[b3arz3rg3r]

Number one is probably Eggy for me. She's far too ambitious for my tastes. Calling her power hungry would be doing her a disservice, but let's say she has always desired control and she can't stand not having it. Also she's too much of a chameleon and I dislike that.

 

Number two is probably Gawyn because he's just such a douche. That guy just can't think for himself and he's just badly written in my opinion especially when BS turned him into some superblademaster all of a sudden. Galad has always been far more interesting imo, even though he was clearly written in a way to make us dislike him in the beginning.

 

Next Elayne though that may be because I just hated the Succession plotline. I detest how inconsistent she is. One day we are supposed to believe she is quickly becoming a great queen and the next she does the most idiotic thing possible.

[Vardar]

Number one is probably Eggy for me. She's far too ambitious for my tastes. Calling her power hungry would be doing her a disservice, but let's say she has always desired control and she can't stand not having it. Also she's too much of a chameleon and I dislike that.

 

Number two is probably Gawyn because he's just such a douche. That guy just can't think for himself and he's just badly written in my opinion especially when BS turned him into some superblademaster all of a sudden. Galad has always been far more interesting imo, even though he was clearly written in a way to make us dislike him in the beginning.

 

Next Elayne though that may be because I just hated the Succession plotline. I detest how inconsistent she is. One day we are supposed to believe she is quickly becoming a great queen and the next she does the most idiotic thing possible.

 

When I picture Galad in my head, I imagine Twilight Vampires and sparkling. Just from how the females view him...

[SuperFade]

Number two is probably Gawyn because he's just such a douche. That guy just can't think for himself and he's just badly written in my opinion especially when BS turned him into some superblademaster all of a sudden. Galad has always been far more interesting imo, even though he was clearly written in a way to make us dislike him in the beginning.

 

It's not really fair to blame Sanderson for this. Gawyn was slicing his way through Aiel like butter long before RJ passed away.

[b3arz3rg3r]

Number one is probably Eggy for me. She's far too ambitious for my tastes. Calling her power hungry would be doing her a disservice, but let's say she has always desired control and she can't stand not having it. Also she's too much of a chameleon and I dislike that.

 

Number two is probably Gawyn because he's just such a douche. That guy just can't think for himself and he's just badly written in my opinion especially when BS turned him into some superblademaster all of a sudden. Galad has always been far more interesting imo, even though he was clearly written in a way to make us dislike him in the beginning.

 

Next Elayne though that may be because I just hated the Succession plotline. I detest how inconsistent she is. One day we are supposed to believe she is quickly becoming a great queen and the next she does the most idiotic thing possible.

 

When I picture Galad in my head, I imagine Twilight Vampires and sparkling. Just from how the females view him...

 

He may sparkle like one of the Twilight Vamps, but you've got to admire the man for the strength of his convictions and his will to follow through no matter what. He's really the opposite of Gawyn in that regard who has always looked for the next master to follow so he doesn't have to think for himself. First Elayne, then Elaida and now Egwene. Funny thing, he has always traded down, hasn't he? XD

For me the only really bad thing about Galad is that he's far too serious for real life. On the list of un-funniest people in the WOT-verse he's number one right in front of Perrin, who probably needs five minutes to analyze a joke before he can laugh, and Rand, whom I still haven't forgiven for those bad jokes he made in FOH I believe it was.

 

Number two is probably Gawyn because he's just such a douche. That guy just can't think for himself and he's just badly written in my opinion especially when BS turned him into some superblademaster all of a sudden. Galad has always been far more interesting imo, even though he was clearly written in a way to make us dislike him in the beginning.

 

It's not really fair to blame Sanderson for this. Gawyn was slicing his way through Aiel like butter long before RJ passed away.

 

Perrin did much of the same only with his axe and yet it never put me off him like it did with Gawyn in the last few books. Perhaps BS is just more blatant about it where Gawyn is concerned, I dunno, it just stuck me as wrong.

[shortkut]

Elayne by far for me. She has turned from a useless sap to someone who is only thinking about how she can use her friends and situations to her advantage.

[Vardar]

He may sparkle like one of the Twilight Vamps, but you've got to admire the man for the strength of his convictions and his will to follow through no matter what. He's really the opposite of Gawyn in that regard who has always looked for the next master to follow so he doesn't have to think for himself. First Elayne, then Elaida and now Egwene. Funny thing, he has always traded down, hasn't he? XD

For me the only really bad thing about Galad is that he's far too serious for real life. On the list of un-funniest people in the WOT-verse he's number one right in front of Perrin, who probably needs five minutes to analyze a joke before he can laugh, and Rand, whom I still haven't forgiven for those bad jokes he made in FOH I believe it was.

 

Eggy is a trade up from Elaida, however his choosing to follow her is another reason to dislike him. Blind trust is a serious failing of his. OMG, Elaida is now the seat, SHE CAN'T BE WRONG, DEFEND HER HONOR, TO ARMS!!!

 

I mean really? Think a little big numbnuts! (Gawyn not you)

 

Galad is too serious, but I don't dislike that. Have we ever seen him make a joke? At least Perrin jokes some. And wait man, Rand's tree joke was HILARIOUS!

[Gristle]

I have always found Nynaeve frustrating as well, but mostly in the first 6-8 books. She's grown on me lately, mostly because she's grown up quite a bit herself. Characters that are adamantly dishonest about themselves are annoying to me. I read a note from BS regarding a re-read he was doing, and he discussed that she was one of his fav. characters because of the courage and tenacity she displays in tracking and protecting the Two Rivers gang. I agree with this, but her consistent self-delusion is infuriating.

Curious that you seem rather more well disposed to Mat, when he displays the same characteristic that you dislike in Nynaeve.

 

You're absolutely correct - he's as bad if not worse than her. I enjoy his POVs more, mostly because of his humor, but they are both incredibly self deluded (and whiny about it) on a regular basis.

[Eӧl]

Gawyn is the worst for me. He is a complete idiot with how he does things.

 

I actually kind of liked how he defended Elaida at first and killed Hammar. We as readers knew it was bad, but to Gawyn it was right. New Amrylin properly raised...and some rebels trying to overthrow her. He chooses what he sees as the right side. After that thought he is just flat out stupid. He kills one of the men he most respects to keep Siuan in prison, then lets Siuan go free when he blames her for everything that has happened to his sister and Egwene? That doesn't make sense.

 

Then when he hears about how "Rand killed his mother." He automatically believes it. Well whatever, people believe stupid things.

The first thing here though is this: he hears his mother is dead and his reaction is "I MUST KILL RAND!!" not "Holy shit, I'm really depressed because the woman who single handedly raised me is now dead and I haven't spoken to her in a year or said how much I loved her." Granted, maybe he is angry and that beats out his sadness but we NEVER see him depressed because he is thinking about how his mother died.

Next point about his mother dying is what he does about it. He now knows that he will be Captain-General and First Prince and that Elayne is still very young to be Queen and will need his help. His place is now in Caemlyn with his sister to make sure there is a peaceful transition, or if Rand really is a murderous tyrant in control of the city then he should get there to start the rebellion. Instead he continues to follow the White Tower for Light knows what reason.

I believe it would have made the book vastly better if Gawyn had went and done something in Andor. Started a rebellion, talked to Rand and found out he was a good guy, band together a bunch of nobles to put political pressure on Rand, I don't know what exactly. Just something. Instead he does nothing. He gets some cool kills when fighting the Aiel and we get to find out how great of a commander he is because he leads the Younglings against Gareth Bryne and avoids getting caught.

 

The next thing is when he actually gets to Cairhien and talks to Egwene. She is pretty close to Rand, smart enough to know if he is lying, and would understand him pretty well because she grew up with him. So she tells him that Rand did not kill Morgase. Gawyn refuses to believe her. He kill a personal friend and mentor then let Siuan go free cause of his love for Elayne and Egwene, but he refuses to trust her word? This is just idiotic again. Double for that because he also doesn't agree with her siding with the rebels. He is willing to do anything for Egwene except the things that she wants him to do...mainly trusting her opinion on things she knows more about than him.

 

Now for the next year or so we have Gawyn running around in the east and near Tar Valon. He completely abandons his nation and sister in order to follow the orders of a woman he suspects is trying to kill him. Even if he believed that Elaida was a kind woman who was doing what was best for the Aes Sedai he still should have left to go do his duty in Andor. Especially because Egwene up and left somewhere so he doesn't have loving her as an excuse for staying out there. This is just silly. Get back to Andor.

 

Then when he finally decides to leave the Younglings he wounds a bunch of people for really no reason and acts like an arrogant little prick towards Bryne. The wounding soldiers is really unforgivable because it is unnecessary and stupid. Why should that soldier believe you are who you say you are and take you to the general of the army? However, I do not mind him acting badly towards Bryne. He has been through a lot and it is understandable. All of the past events are catching up to him and he isn't thinking straight. He even corrects himself in his head and decides he needs to stop being so rash. Bravo, good moment for you Gawyn. But then he thinks that he needs to save Egwene when she says she doesn't need to be saved and isn't letting anyone else save her. She has an army of fifty thousand men and a few hundred Aes Sedai and one of the great captains. She's got enough help if she needs it. She doesn't want or need you. But you know who does? ELAYNE. Ya know, that sister of yours you swore to protect with your last breath and the person who is trying to get Andor back on stable footing. She sure could use Gawyn's help right now. But we don't even see him spare a thought for her let alone actually consider going and helping.

 

Next we have a commendable action by Gawyn. Him and Siuan go get Egwene from the tower. The tower gets attacked by Seanchan, Egwene can't channel and is pretty much imprisoned, she is pulled from the Dream and doesn't return...well things are pretty serious. It is understandable that Siuan and Gawyn have decided it is time to get Egwene out of their before she is killed or enslaved by the Seanchan. And then he follows this up with another smart reaction. After being verbally abused multiple times by Egwene he gives up and goes back to Andor. Finally.

 

But of course he once again abandons his duties in favor of becoming Egwene's lackey. Going and saving her life is good. But I do not believe he has any place becoming her Warder. His duty is in Andor and with Elayne and using his considerable military knowledge to help with the last battle, not running errands for Egwene.

 

That is a list of all of Gawyn's stupid actions. But the other reason I hate him is because of his wasted potential as a character. he started off in the first three books as a great character. A character that loved his honor, family, and nation but still a good guy that could hang out with commoners and enjoy a joke or two. He seemed pretty cool. He was also very good with the sword and presumably a great tactician. He could have done so much in this series, especially with the whole Succession thing in Andor. But instead all of his "deeds" could have been done by a nameless Warder or soldier. He basically leads around a bunch of teenagers in little skirmishes with various foes. The only important part of his POV's was for the reader to see what he was thinking. Well we could have found out his thoughts while he was doing something important that helped the series progress.

 

Sorry for the long post. I also know many of you will disagree with a lot of it lol.

[muddasssir]

nope bro Amen to see some common sense for a change, you have been very articulate in describing all the shortcomings of this character.

[ironisles]

nope bro Amen to see some common sense for a change, you have been very articulate in describing all the shortcomings of this character.

 

I concur.. my thoughts pretty much exactly on Gawyn. Now character(s) I hate? I hate all the stupid petty scheming selfish idiotic nobles..no matter where they come from most of them are all the same.

[Zewe]

Faile + post-Faile Perrin, hands down.

[Kahsm]

..

Her telling Rand that she would not let him break the seals (Although I'll admit this may have occured for a reason on Rand's side, but she still blindly believed she was right without digging further information).

Her Blaming Rand for Asha'men bonding AS, and her refussal to accept that it can occur. (That one really pissed me off actually).

 

Just to name 2, Anyway if you want to debate Eggy hate, that's fine we can go to another thread, however I had no intention of debating Eggy and why I hate her. I merely explained to another poster why I disliked her and why it wasn't sexism. You choose to grab my opinion and tell me how I was wrong...

 

Because your opinion is based on faulty premises and therefore is faulty itself. For example, claiming Egwene not wanting the seals broken is an example how she has turned into your negatively-stereotyped Aes Sedai . But you actually said, "maintaining they know what's best even when they're proven wrong". Rand not only offered no proof, he didn't offer anything in the way of an explanation! She's going with what is otherwise a Randland (if not a whole world) cultural consensus -- you don't F***ing break the seals!

 

And I'll even give you the Asha'man one, despite her obvious and logical worries that they're still mad and now "in control" of Aes Sedai. But one example of possible petulance and hypocrisy hardly proves your claim that she's maintaining or enforcing Aes Sedai bad habits, is a hypocrate in general, yadda yadda. If anything, it just speaks against claims of "mary sue"-ness. Things do not always go her way. But either way, I, and Suttree, have given numerous, specific, examples of why your reason for disliking her is based on faulty premises and therefore completely meaningless.

 

It's not really fair to blame Sanderson for this. Gawyn was slicing his way through Aiel like butter long before RJ passed away.

Perrin did much of the same only with his axe and yet it never put me off him like it did with Gawyn in the last few books. Perhaps BS is just more blatant about it where Gawyn is concerned, I dunno, it just stuck me as wrong.

 

Because blademaster fights are long and wordy, and Perrin's fights are just SLASH SLASH SLASH all whitecloaks/aiel are dead. So it's less noticeable. The difference is Gawyn practices and takes sword fighting and combat seriously. Perrin hates his weapon, hates using it, and I don't think we've ever seen him consider practicing except when Lan shows him how to not hurt himself in book 1? So it should bug you a lot more.

[Maleshub]

Regarding Gawyn, who happens to be on my very short list of least-liked characters, we have to see his failings through Min's vision. The Tower split and his fighting against Siuan's warders hurt him inside, deep down. He is not rational. And even before his debacle on behalf of Elaida, he was impulsive and passionate. Gawyn is a walking emotional wreck. Maybe his relationship with Egwene will restore some balance in his life, and reinstate some common sense in his brains!

 

My favorite Elayne scene so far is how she puts him in place during their boat ride in the Royal Palace. She was masterful in that scene.

[muddasssir]

I guess if we are going to I am going to start an Egwene bashing thread so we can stop trashing other discussions.

[Vardar]

Because your opinion is based on faulty premises and therefore is faulty itself. For example, claiming Egwene not wanting the seals broken is an example how she has turned into your negatively-stereotyped Aes Sedai . But you actually said, "maintaining they know what's best even when they're proven wrong". Rand not only offered no proof, he didn't offer anything in the way of an explanation! She's going with what is otherwise a Randland (if not a whole world) cultural consensus -- you don't F***ing break the seals!

 

Did she offer him the chance to explain? Did she ask him? Did she even stop and think, that besides the fact that it's a cultural consensus, this is the man who MADE the seals and thus knows what he is doing? No, no she didn't. (She may have asked him, I don't recall perfectly, I haven't read that scene in a while, correct that part if I'm wrong). So regardless, if she initiated a little discussion, Hey Rand, what would happen when you break the seals? Oh nothing, he'll be more free to touch the world, but just like the 100 years during the war of power, it's not like he's coming out right now. Oh well thanks good sir, I appreciate that.

 

And I'll even give you the Asha'man one, despite her obvious and logical worries that they're still mad and now "in control" of Aes Sedai. But one example of possible petulance and hypocrisy hardly proves your claim that she's maintaining or enforcing Aes Sedai bad habits, is a hypocrate in general, yadda yadda. If anything, it just speaks against claims of "mary sue"-ness. Things do not always go her way. But either way, I, and Suttree, have given numerous, specific, examples of why your reason for disliking her is based on faulty premises and therefore completely meaningless.

 

Umm. In this thread? SInce we've been discussing thing? Really? My reason? Are you confusing me with someone? Have I even discussed my dislike of her much in this thread? (Maybe again I'm wrong again and it was a while ago or something but I doubt it).

 

The Logain thing isn't really a change in Official policy. She refused to be privy to murder, which most sisters would agree with, and thus set him free. Her insistence that Ny stay in the tower after officially passing her test (I agree with the testing her portion) and I',m glad Ny stood up to her. Your calling her concerns Logical show your bias in your opinion of her. Again, I was providing examples to some one else, as to why my opinion of her is not based on sexism. If you need more examples I'll point others out. Do you have a specific number you'd like? Let me know and I'll get back to it. As to your numerous examples, you're provided 2 and Sutt provided 1 since you started speaking to me. And in fact, they were just examples of her doing "good" nothing stating my dislike of her is meaningless. (Kinda harsh don't ya think).

 

Are you sure you're not confusing me with someone, I think you are.

[Suttree]

Because your opinion is based on faulty premises and therefore is faulty itself. For example, claiming Egwene not wanting the seals broken is an example how she has turned into your negatively-stereotyped Aes Sedai . But you actually said, "maintaining they know what's best even when they're proven wrong". Rand not only offered no proof, he didn't offer anything in the way of an explanation! She's going with what is otherwise a Randland (if not a whole world) cultural consensus -- you don't F***ing break the seals!

 

Did she offer him the chance to explain? Did she ask him? Did she even stop and think, that besides the fact that it's a cultural consensus, this is the man who MADE the seals and thus knows what he is doing? .

 

But he doesn't no what he's doing, he has admitted as much an is hoping Min finds the answers for him.

 

As for Eggy she did ask him and implored him to plan. At that point Rand refused and gave a flippant response. He antagonized her on purpose and it is Egwenes duty to question a seemingly mad act until it is explained.

 

I guess if we are going to I am going to start an Egwene bashing thread so we can stop trashing other discussions.

 

Why would you feel the need to start one? There are hundreds to choose from already.

[Suttree]

Please delete

[Vardar]

But he doesn't no what he's doing, he has admitted as much an is hoping Min finds the answers for him.

 

As for Eggy she did ask him and implored him to plan. At that point Rand refused and gave a flippant response. He antagonized her on purpose and it is Egwenes duty to question a seemingly mad act until it is explained.

 

He does know he has to remove the old. That's not exactly not knowing what he's doing. He wants Min to find the why for him, but he knows what needs to be done with the current seals.

 

I'll admit he wanted her to react the way that she did, to get the world leaders together. However to believe that something is Mad just because you can't instantly figure it out goes far towards pointing out my opinion of her. While Rand doesn't know everything, he knows a hell of a lot more than Eggy, she should understand that on a basic level at least.

 

Ny has returned by this time correct? So she knows he's no longer mad. Why the hell was he still shielded anyway? He's a friend, the Dragon Reborn (Fated to save the world) and she admits he could have broken through if he wanted. At that point, what's the point of keeping him shielded? (Another gripe with her).

[Suttree]

But he doesn't no what he's doing, he has admitted as much an is hoping Min finds the answers for him.

 

As for Eggy she did ask him and implored him to plan. At that point Rand refused and gave a flippant response. He antagonized her on purpose and it is Egwenes duty to question a seemingly mad act until it is explained.

 

He does know he has to remove the old. That's not exactly not knowing what he's doing. He wants Min to find the why for him, but he knows what needs to be done with the current seals.

 

I'll admit he wanted her to react the way that she did, to get the world leaders together. However to believe that something is Mad just because you can't instantly figure it out goes far towards pointing out my opinion of her. While Rand doesn't know everything, he knows a hell of a lot more than Eggy, she should understand that on a basic level at least.

 

Ny has returned by this time correct? So she knows he's no longer mad. Why the hell was he still shielded anyway? He's a friend, the Dragon Reborn (Fated to save the world) and she admits he could have broken through if he wanted. At that point, what's the point of keeping him shielded? (Another gripe with her).

 

Nope. At this point Rand had just come of the mountain. She thinks he could be mad because by all reports he is! Nyn has not seen him post VoG. So a seeming mad man, one who by all accounts has been commiting increasingly dangerous acts shows up and says I'm going to break the seals and refuses to say why or plan and you expect anyone to realistically be ok with that? It goes against what every person in world thinks aside from A select few. Even much later when Nyn does know the truth she is still unsure of Rands course and concedes Eggy could be right. No we know that isn't correct but you need to look at this from an in world perspective, not a reader we know Jesus Rand will make everything ok despite not knowing how to seal the bore perspective.

[SuperFade]

Suttree, Vardamus, Kael et al.

 

Please stop. We've had this debate so many times before, and nobody ever changes their opinions no matter how many quotes people sling around. I don't mean to be a backseat mod, but there are topics for this sort of debate, and this isn't one of them.