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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

True Source Creator

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  1. Just finished today. What a book! What a series! First up, the deaths. -Siuan (didn't think she was going to die, but a fitting death) -Bryne (see above) -Gawyn (YES! Demandred is the first Forsaken to kill off a main character. About flippin' time) -Galad (oh wait, no he didn't die...thought he did. Kinda wished he had) -Bela (WTF! NOOOOOOOOO!) -Rhuarc (more surprised he was Compulsed than anything) -Romanda/Lelaine (fitting they both died on the same page) -Birgitte (a bit shocking) -Egwene (biggest surprise death IMO. I rather liked her so it was sudden an unexpected) I'm sure I'm missing a few of the good guys, but the fates of the bad guys and my reactions: -Demandred (never imagined Lan would kill him. Thought it was going to be Mat) -Graendal/Hesalam (liked how the DO just turned her into some ugly witch. Liked even more how her own Compulsion turned against her. A fitting end for her) -Lanfear (the only Forsaken I was genuinely sad to see die. For a while, I was really hoping she was going to help the good guys out. In the final scene with her, despite obvious ploys toward Perrin, I thought something in her was going to help her help Perrin help Rand defeat Moridin, but instead she took a different path and I was upset that she didn't come back to the Light as had been hypothesized by many) -Moghedian (she got by well enough, but it was funny to see her collared in the end) -Taim (booted up to Chosen. Egwene raped him in that fight) -Padan Fain (a bit sudden. He was in the book for like one chapter. As if forgotten the whole time. And in the same chapter he gets killed off like 5 pages later) -Slayer (a bit redudant. I feel like he should have been finished in Towers of Midnight instead) -Alviarin and co (eh, a weird conclusion for them) -Mellar (lol, that "fake Birgitte" you killed was actually the real one...and she killed you right back) -Moridin (fitting I suppose that he should get death and Rand should live) Anyways, Perrin's chapter were the most interesting of the three ta'veren this time around. Mat and Rand were close at second and/or third (probably Mat's were better). Rand, despite being the protagonist, had most of his focus on the DO (obviously) and those were few and far between at times, so we got a lot closer to Perrin and Mat, and I liked that. Egwene was great, especially in her demise. An unexpected but powerful one. Demandred proved to be the most badass of the Forsaken after all. The only one to kill any main characters...and the Sharan plotline. Yes, just yes! He was the most capable of the Forsaken and that makes him the best one of them all. Did the Tinkers find their song after all? Don't really care for that plot regardless, but I'm thinking it had something to do with the Ogiers...maybe? Androl and Pevara taking center stage in the first third of the book. That was interesting and they're probably the best couple in the book. Cadsuane being asked to Amyrlin...might work. Graendal accomplishing something (with taking out the Great Generals) was pretty satisfying. Lanfear played so many heartstrings. I didn't know what side she was on but I was hopeful that it was the Light, just so we could actually have a Forsaken come back to the Light Moiraine's return got the proper reaction it deserved Mat's and Tuon's storyline definitely developed nicely Moghedien being absent for the majority of the novel fit her character very well. Should have known it was her being the spy for the Seanchan. The Dark One seems less bad than imagined. It's like an essence that exists in everyone and in a way it is necessary for balance, like Rand saw when he decided killing Shai'tan would be worse than keeping him alive. Rand's ending is a bit bizarre but rather satisfying for him. A great way to end the series with the whole wind thing. But it was a ending. GREAT!
  2. Thom and Morgasse. We never saw it on screen, but I always picture it as a silent film montage, with Thom wooing Morgasse as her court bard and then a private love develops and Thom watches over Elayne and teaches her stories and plays with her while she's a young infant. And then the tragic turn to the story where Morgasse tosses Thom out on his butt, and the final image of Thom walking solemnly away from the Caemyln Palace on a cloudy day, looking just once over his shoulder at the guards outside the gates.
  3. When did you first know Dashiva was Osan'gar/Aginor? On my initial read through, I didn't really pay much attention to him, especially as the books he's featured in are mostly ACoS, TPoD, and WH, which kind of lost my interest a bit. But in WH we find out Dashiva is really Osan'gar, who was first seen in LoC before Dashiva came to Taim, or Taim to him?, to the Black Tower. And we learn in WH that Osan'gar was really Aginor reincarnated. But now on my second read through, I can see a lot of subtle hints that Dashiva was a Forsaken. In ACoS, we learn that he was pushing Flinn to learn things that most of the Asha'man didn't know how to do, and that's how Flinn (I think it was Flinn) was able to Heal Rand after the Shadar Logoth knife stab wound. Later we hear from Rand's PoV that Dashiva was holding almost as much of the One Power as Rand himself possibly could when Rand awakens from his wounds. And when, in the same chapter, Rand discusses going to attack Sammael that very day, Dashiva seems concerned and the only one unhappy with the plan. So how did you first know Dashiva was a Forsaken, and that he was Osan'gar?
  4. I'm on this one in my re-read too. I have about 250 pages left. Just finished the first chapter where Mat has moved into the Tarasin Palace and is trying to avoid Tylin's frivolous behavior. So far I really like the Mindtrap chapter. It gives us our first description of Moridin, but we receive a viewpoint from Moridin as a watcher who spies on Sammael and Graendal at the meeting with Sevanna and the Shaido a few chapters prior. And I like the scene where Nynaeve and Elayne are first taken to the Kin and Reanne Corley and everyone believes they're not Aes Sedai, and a few chapters later when Nynaeve and Elayne come back with the Aes Sedai from the Tarasin Palace and then the Kin realizes they were wrong and had abused real Aes Sedai.
  5. Well no, not necessarily (to the first part). The original Mazrim Taim may actually have been killed/removed and a proxy of Taim may have been created, really being Asmodean...but no, Asmodean is a goner for good, I'm certain of it. But doesn't mean this Taim is the original Taim.
  6. You know what would be awesome? The first time we see Demandred in AMoL, we get taken immediately back to that day at Shayol Ghul, in a flashback scene where the DO asks if Demandred would unleash balefire for him, then we see bits and pieces, through the italicized flashbacks that have been used sometimes in the books, of Demandred going here and there and everywhere and balefiring things the DO asks, some little snippits of him going to Shayol Ghul and asking if he's done well (hence the laughter), see what he's been up to. That would be great, but unlikely.
  7. To be fair, Elaida did change things a lot too...in a bad way.
  8. Who cares if it's biased? It's meant to be a joke obviously, and bias can intensify a joke.
  9. No one. Shai'tan wins. ...if only they could pull that off, but they don't have the balls for it.
  10. And the lamest. ...and it also doesn't explain why he did something in LoC that warranted the DO to laugh when Demandred inquires if he has done well on his visit to Shayol Ghul at the end of LoC. Laughing because Demandred has established himself as Roedran, king of Murandy? I think not.
  11. Very valid point. ...except obviously Narg is the DO.
  12. I know a lot of you joke about Bela being The Creator. That's great and all, but it's time you get serious for a moment. ...because it's no joke. I appreciate that there are some of you who realize this and are not joking, because it is so obvious. RJ has clearly shown us in the past that Bela is The Creator. Let's take a look. Example one: From Lord of Chaos Chapter 34 Is it a coincidence that you can find the word "Creator" spelled in the same sentence as Bela's name, probably multiple times (but that one there stood out the most obvious to me)? I think not. And obviously Bela's appearance by the statue is a sign that Bela is The Creator, because as we can see, Egwene screams at the sight of it, but Bela is not deterred in the slightest. Bela knew it was there, and only The Creator could have known that. Now brace yourselves. If you have your copy of LoC available, I would definitely recommend turning to Ch 34 and on the same page, you'll find this. Example 2: I know, I was surprised too when I read that. You might have to re-read it a couple times before you see it, because it may look like, in your book, the next words after "after all." are "Even so, she felt a twinge of regret...", but if you're seeing that then you're just not looking hard enough at the fine print. Ok, neigh we are not finished yet. If that impressed you, then you better make sure you're sitting for this one (and honestly, who would be reading this forum standing up anyways?), because this is the most obvious example of RJ's subtlety concerning the true identity of Bela. Example 3: also from LoC Ch 34 (same paragraph) Oh RJ you sly fox you. You see how that was put in there. I made it look larger than it appears in the text, because when you look at it in the book it's actually like size 2 font...but it's obviously not Egwene's thought because she's not The Creator, and the only other being there is Bela, who we could tell was amused by the fact that Egwene thought she didn't exist in TAR. Because Bela exists everywhere. So there you have it. There is no refuting this evidence.
  13. It hasn't been cut. In fact, if you've been reading the series, you'll know it's already been revealed. RJ just makes us rely on context clues rather than coming straight out and saying it. It's like Mat killing Couladin off-screen. Just as that was indirectly occurring, so too is Bela's role as the Creator indirectly mentioned.
  14. In an expansion of my thoughts on Demandred's activities in LoC (which can be seen in the "Where's Waldo...I mean Demandred" thread in the Structured Forum), I have a theory on how the Land of the Mad Men, which has been mentioned outside the books by RJ, may have actually had some play in the books too, and perhaps this could be Demandred's role in LoC (since I feel confident he must have done something during LoC, if off-screen) and could also ratify the "things to the south had Demandred written on them" line. Ok, so when Rand first goes to "the farm" to visit Taim, Taim has gathered a few dozen possible candidates and is training them. A few chapters (about 300 pages) later, Rand returns to "The Black Tower", and Taim has at least 100 men there with most being possible channelers. Then a couple hundred pages later (perhaps weeks? in the story), Taim shows up at Dumai's Wells with 200 or more Asha'man, doubling from just about 2 weeks prior. Where did all these male channelers come from? My theory: the Land of the Mad Men. It's never mentioned in the books, but RJ has mentioned it, and I'm thinking that at least through LoC and before Moridin shows up, Demandred was pulling strings on the BT and especially Taim, so Demandred probably guided Taim to the LotM or searched himself and brought recruits from there.
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