Rand's relationship with Egwene

USURP888 · May 23, 2011

I was doing a reread of TOM and on Chapter 51 - A testing on page 749 I noticed this passage when Rand was talking to Min on route to Far Madding:

"What difference?"

He smiled. "This time I was raised better."

Min found herself smiling as well.

"You know me, Min. Well, I promise you, I feel more like myself now that I have in months. I feel more like myself than I ever did as Lews Therin, if that makes any kind of sense. It's because of Tam, because of the people around me. You, Perrin, Nynaeve, Mat, Aviendha, Elayne, Moiraine..."

Egwene is noticeably absent in the people Rand lists. It cannot be because of proximity, Moiraine has been gone a long time and Rand has not had contact with Mat, Perrin and Elayne for nearly as long, Even Aviendha has not been in contact with Rand much since she went with Mat to Salidar, but still he lists all of them as a good influence on him save Egwene.

So does anyone else thinks that Rand does not consider Egwene as a friend anymore?

Barid Bel Medar · May 23, 2011

He cant.

Considering what happened earlier, she is NOT a friend to him. At least she doesnt think so.

Not knocking Egwene, but she was always out for herself. Brandon and RJ have both said it, nothing new. Sure, she was worried for Rand and such early on, but she never really cared the way the others do. Rand and Egwene's relationship was never really that close. As we see in EotW and tGH, they think they are betrothed or were to be married, but they didnt have much of a real relationship.

Mat and Perrin were always his friends. Nynaeve has done heaps for him, from being wisdom plus the other stuff when she was with him. His three women always loved him and supported him. Moiraine basically lives and dies for him. Tam is his father in all but blood.

She didnt really have a good effect on him. Not like all of the others. I mean, lets be honest, half of the time in the first books they are fighting and the other half not talking. She didnt teach him, and she was never close like Mat and Perrin.

However, I think he still considers her a friend of sorts. She was a part of his life. She just didnt impact is as much as the others have. She is kind of like the other two rivers folk. Master Luhhan etc.. They are friends and get along, but not made that impact that those few do.

Edited May 23, 2011 by Barid Bel Medar

May 23, 2011

They aren't friends and, in fact, never have been. Even when they thought they would marry they didn't know each other very well and at least Rand didn't really feel comfortable around Egwene.

Nevertheless, they remember that they once thought they were friends or even more, so that will probably help them to reach an agreement of some sort. But Rand definitely doesn't consider Egwene to be one of the persons that he either owes something - Moiraine, Nynaeve,Lan - or that he trusts. And it is definitely justified IMHO.

Himiko · May 23, 2011

"What difference?"

He smiled. "This time I was raised better."

Min found herself smiling as well.

"You know me, Min. Well, I promise you, I feel more like myself now that I have in months. I feel more like myself than I ever did as Lews Therin, if that makes any kind of sense. It's because of Tam, because of the people around me. You, Perrin, Nynaeve, Mat, Aviendha, Elayne, Moiraine..."

Egwene is noticeably absent in the people Rand lists. It cannot be because of proximity, Moiraine has been gone a long time and Rand has not had contact with Mat, Perrin and Elayne for nearly as long, Even Aviendha has not been in contact with Rand much since she went with Mat to Salidar, but still he lists all of them as a good influence on him save Egwene.

To be fair, though he hasn't seen Elayne and Aviendha in a long time, he is apparently in love with them, and is linked to them by the Warder bond, so you could argue they are still influencing each other, despite not seeing each other. Nynaeve was the only Aes Sedai Rand allowed near him during TGS, and he knows that she cares for him and wants him to survive. And Perrin and Mat were his best friends growing up.

That said, I agree, I don't think they are friends anymore, if they ever were friends in the strictest sense. A lot of their earlier interactions seemed based on the idea that they had been betrothed, and one day they would be married, when they realise that they aren't actually in love and "break it off", so to speak, they don't seem to have a lot to do with each other. I don't think they hate each other, far from it, I'd say they're probably closer than they are to the "rest of the Emond's Field people", in a sense, as they've been through more together. I'm still not sure whether they will end up coming to blows- verbal or otherwise- at the Fields of Merrilor, however. I think their relationship has become more like rival colleagues than anything. Powerful forces for the light, with the same overall aim, but they don't agree on how to get there.

I think from Rand's part- he doesn't go to Egwene because she is Egwene, his childhood sweetheart, and friend from his hometown. He goes to her because she is the Amyrlin Seat, powerful politician, and leader of one of the largest groups of female channelers in the Westlands. I suspect he is tricking her into arriving at the fields, either because he suspects his ta'veren nature will force the White Tower and their associated forces to his side, or because he wants an excuse to bring all the leaders together for some other purpose. Either way, he doesn't trust her to tell her the whole of his plans, if I'm correct. In addition, when he asks Nynaeve to link with him, because he will need two female channelers to link with, that he trusts implicitly, he mentions Avi and Elayne, but doesn't mention Egwene, even in passing. Now, you might argue there are plenty of reasons for this, but bear in mind, a) Rand wants female and male channelers working together, and what better way to symbolise that than sealing/destroying the Dark One alongside the most powerful and iconic (politically speaking) Aes Sedai, the Amyrlin Seat herself? b) Egwene is Elayne's equal in power, and as such is, behind Nynaeve, one of the most powerful female channelers of the age, and c) Aside from Nynaeve, Egwene is the female channeler who has known Rand well since long before he manifested his powers. And yet, he never once mentions her as someone he trusts.

As far as Egwene's POV goes, she is the Amyrlin Seat, and seems to have bought into the AS way of thought pretty thoroughly- in her mind, Rand needs to be controlled/ guided by the Tower. Additionally, as far as she knows, he is a madman. And, of course, he has brought male channelers together, and allowed them to bond AS, which seems to be taken as a great insult to AS as a whole. Last but not least, he is a man, and Egwene seems to be one of the more sexist characters in the series, I don't think she believes Rand is capable of fulfilling his destiny alone- even when Nynaeve sees the benefits of Rand's plan, Egwene believes its simply due to Rand's ta'veren nature. She doesn't dislike Rand, but as BS has said, Egwene sees goals rather than people, I imagine she thinks Rand will die in the Last Battle, and as such, she sets aside the fact that they were once close, to do what she feels needs to be done. I also think that, since Egwene is a very typical AS, in the sense that AS and the White Tower come first for her, Rand's actions- setting up the Black Tower, letting them bond AS, forcing AS to swear oaths to him, probably comes across as more hostile towards the WT than they were intended.

Either way, whether you like or dislike either character, I don't think they hate each other, but I don't think either of them trust the other, for different reasons. I don't think Egwene had such an impact on him as a person as he was growing up, and I don't think she's had much impact on him as a person over the series. They aren't friends. They are allies of the Light, they will, in all probability, both play important parts in the Last Battle, but assuming they both survive it, I don't see them being friends. I don't even see them being overly sad if the other dies in the Last Battle, not since Rand's List o' Women ceased to be.

May 23, 2011

"What difference?"

He smiled. "This time I was raised better."

Min found herself smiling as well.

"You know me, Min. Well, I promise you, I feel more like myself now that I have in months. I feel more like myself than I ever did as Lews Therin, if that makes any kind of sense. It's because of Tam, because of the people around me. You, Perrin, Nynaeve, Mat, Aviendha, Elayne, Moiraine..."

Egwene is noticeably absent in the people Rand lists. It cannot be because of proximity, Moiraine has been gone a long time and Rand has not had contact with Mat, Perrin and Elayne for nearly as long, Even Aviendha has not been in contact with Rand much since she went with Mat to Salidar, but still he lists all of them as a good influence on him save Egwene.

To be fair, though he hasn't seen Elayne and Aviendha in a long time, he is apparently in love with them, and is linked to them by the Warder bond, so you could argue they are still influencing each other, despite not seeing each other. Nynaeve was the only Aes Sedai Rand allowed near him during TGS, and he knows that she cares for him and wants him to survive. And Perrin and Mat were his best friends growing up.

That said, I agree, I don't think they are friends anymore, if they ever were friends in the strictest sense. A lot of their earlier interactions seemed based on the idea that they had been betrothed, and one day they would be married, when they realise that they aren't actually in love and "break it off", so to speak, they don't seem to have a lot to do with each other. I don't think they hate each other, far from it, I'd say they're probably closer than they are to the "rest of the Emond's Field people", in a sense, as they've been through more together. I'm still not sure whether they will end up coming to blows- verbal or otherwise- at the Fields of Merrilor, however. I think their relationship has become more like rival colleagues than anything. Powerful forces for the light, with the same overall aim, but they don't agree on how to get there.

I think from Rand's part- he doesn't go to Egwene because she is Egwene, his childhood sweetheart, and friend from his hometown. He goes to her because she is the Amyrlin Seat, powerful politician, and leader of one of the largest groups of female channelers in the Westlands. I suspect he is tricking her into arriving at the fields, either because he suspects his ta'veren nature will force the White Tower and their associated forces to his side, or because he wants an excuse to bring all the leaders together for some other purpose. Either way, he doesn't trust her to tell her the whole of his plans, if I'm correct. In addition, when he asks Nynaeve to link with him, because he will need two female channelers to link with, that he trusts implicitly, he mentions Avi and Elayne, but doesn't mention Egwene, even in passing. Now, you might argue there are plenty of reasons for this, but bear in mind, a) Rand wants female and male channelers working together, and what better way to symbolise that than sealing/destroying the Dark One alongside the most powerful and iconic (politically speaking) Aes Sedai, the Amyrlin Seat herself? b) Egwene is Elayne's equal in power, and as such is, behind Nynaeve, one of the most powerful female channelers of the age, and c) Aside from Nynaeve, Egwene is the female channeler who has known Rand well since long before he manifested his powers. And yet, he never once mentions her as someone he trusts.

As far as Egwene's POV goes, she is the Amyrlin Seat, and seems to have bought into the AS way of thought pretty thoroughly- in her mind, Rand needs to be controlled/ guided by the Tower. Additionally, as far as she knows, he is a madman. And, of course, he has brought male channelers together, and allowed them to bond AS, which seems to be taken as a great insult to AS as a whole. Last but not least, he is a man, and Egwene seems to be one of the more sexist characters in the series, I don't think she believes Rand is capable of fulfilling his destiny alone- even when Nynaeve sees the benefits of Rand's plan, Egwene believes its simply due to Rand's ta'veren nature. She doesn't dislike Rand, but as BS has said, Egwene sees goals rather than people, I imagine she thinks Rand will die in the Last Battle, and as such, she sets aside the fact that they were once close, to do what she feels needs to be done. I also think that, since Egwene is a very typical AS, in the sense that AS and the White Tower come first for her, Rand's actions- setting up the Black Tower, letting them bond AS, forcing AS to swear oaths to him, probably comes across as more hostile towards the WT than they were intended.

Either way, whether you like or dislike either character, I don't think they hate each other, but I don't think either of them trust the other, for different reasons. I don't think Egwene had such an impact on him as a person as he was growing up, and I don't think she's had much impact on him as a person over the series. They aren't friends. They are allies of the Light, they will, in all probability, both play important parts in the Last Battle, but assuming they both survive it, I don't see them being friends. I don't even see them being overly sad if the other dies in the Last Battle, not since Rand's List o' Women ceased to be.

Very good analysis, I completely agree.

Their whole relationship has been wierd from the start. They were kind of betrohed, kind of loved each other - but the betrothal wasn't ever formally entered and their conversations always seemed...How to put it, they cared for each other but didn't really know, understand or appreciate the other person. It seems unlikely they even once talked sincerely about their plans, dreams, opinions etc.

To Egwene's credit, she has tried to overcome the knee-jerk reaction to the fact that Rand could channel, but her subsequent actions unfortunately nullified this positive effort. When she told him she didn't love him - if I recall, very soon after his whole world was turned upside down- I disliked it very much. It was like your fiance discovers she's got this terrible sickness and you suddenly discover you don't love her any more, when you should have instead waited and helped her to get through the initial shock.

David Selig · May 23, 2011

When she told him she didn't love him - if I recall, very soon after his whole world was turned upside down- I disliked it very much. It was like your fiance discovers she's got this terrible sickness and you suddenly discover you don't love her any more, when you should have instead waited and helped her to get through the initial shock.

To be fair to Egwene, she told Rand she didn't love him in TSR, almost a year after Rand discovered he could channel and several months after Falme. There was really no reason to keep up the charade of a "relationship" between them, especially with Elayne waiting in the wings, so to speak.

Besides, at first Egwene was quite supportive of him even though she knew he could channel and didn't know he was the DR. Hiding him from the Amyrlin in Fal Dara, etc.

I think part of the problem is that RJ did a pretty poor job of establishing their friendship and "almost engaged" status in TEOTW. They barely interact throughout the novel.

Elvira_Sedai · May 23, 2011

I think that only one true simple FM friendship shown in WoT is Birgitte and Mat , the other ones are guiding or alliance . Egwene and Rand relations are both guidance and alliance , they never discuss their inner problems each other , what is mean friendship , imho .

USURP888 · May 23, 2011

I think that only one true simple FM friendship shown in WoT is Birgitte and Mat , the other ones are guiding or alliance . Egwene and Rand relations are both guidance and alliance , they never discuss their inner problems each other , what is mean friendship , imho .

I agree completely about the Mat and Birgitte relationship. I love their scenes together especially their first meeting in Mat's hotel when Mat figured out who she actually is.

Regarding Egwene and Rand, I felt they were friends in mind at least but never really took to that to heart.

May 23, 2011

When she told him she didn't love him - if I recall, very soon after his whole world was turned upside down- I disliked it very much. It was like your fiance discovers she's got this terrible sickness and you suddenly discover you don't love her any more, when you should have instead waited and helped her to get through the initial shock.

To be fair to Egwene, she told Rand she didn't love him in TSR, almost a year after Rand discovered he could channel and several months after Falme. There was really no reason to keep up the charade of a "relationship" between them, especially with Elayne waiting in the wings, so to speak.

Besides, at first Egwene was quite supportive of him even though she knew he could channel and didn't know he was the DR. Hiding him from the Amyrlin in Fal Dara, etc.

I think part of the problem is that RJ did a pretty poor job of establishing their friendship and "almost engaged" status in TEOTW. They barely interact throughout the novel.

You're right, maybe my reaction was a little overblown. I didn't realise it was almost a year(really?wow...).

randsc · May 23, 2011

To paraphrase Kissinger, Egwene doesn't have friends, she has interests.

sleepinghour · May 23, 2011

So does anyone else thinks that Rand does not consider Egwene as a friend anymore?

I think it's pretty clear there's a growing distance between them that started long before Egwene became Amyrlin. Until TSR, she was very devoted to him, which showed in her Accepted test: every single scenario involved her being forced to betray or abandon him.

However, once Egwene became an apprentice to the Wise Ones, she immediately sided with them—and Moiraine—against Rand. She was aware of, but didn't object to the Wise Ones spying on his dreams and Moiraine eavesdropping on Rand with the Power. She even attempted to spy on his dreams herself. When Moiraine lost her temper and struck Rand with a flow of Air, Egwene attempted to cover up whom it had been. When Nynaeve told Egwene about seeing Forsaken in T'A'R, Egwene went to Moiraine with the information, not Rand. And so on.

Rand even comments on this when Mat was getting ready to leave before the battle in FoH:

Rand's nod could have been understanding. Maybe it was. "I'd forget saying goodbye to Egwene, were I you. I am no longer certain how much of what I tell her I might as well be telling Moiraine, or the Wise Ones, or both."
"I reached that conclusion a long time ago. She's left Emond's Field further behind than either of us. And regrets it less."

"Maybe," Rand said sadly. "The Light shine on you, Mat," he added, sticking out his hand, "and send you smooth roads, fair weather and pleasant company until we meet again."

That said, I think she's still someone he cares about. They grew up together, and at one point—no more than two or three years ago in the story—Egwene was the second most important person in his life after Tam.

He turned toward the door to the Hall of the Tower. "What kind of Amyrlin is she?"
Why ask me? He couldn't know of the closeness between Siuan and Egwene. "She's an incredible one," Siuan said. "One of the greatest we've had, for all the fact that she's only held the Seat a short time."

He smiled again. "I should have expected nothing less. Strange, but I feel that seeing her again will hurt, though that is one wound that has well and truly healed. I can still remember the pain of it, I suppose."

His comment to Siuan in ToM could be interpreted in more than one way: is he referring to breaking up with Egwene or the deterioration of their friendship? This is a scene I really wish we could have gotten Rand's POV of.

When he meets Egwene, Rand treats her with a great deal of respect (far more than he gave the Borderland rulers), taking care not to damage her standing with the Hall. Still, I can't help but wonder if Rand's comment to Nynaeve later—"don't let them ruin you"—was because he thought that's what becoming Aes Sedai had done to Egwene. Her omission from the aforementioned list of people important to him was also quite telling, as was the fact that he chose to manipulate her rather than simply ask her to gather the world's armies for him.

As for Egwene:

"You're troubled by him, Egwene. More than usual, I mean. I can tell. Why?"
"I have reason to be, Elayne. The eyes-and-ears report very troubling rumors. Only rumors, I hope, but if they aren't..." She was very much the Amyrlin Seat now, a short slender young woman who seemed strong as steel and tall as a mountain. Determination filled her dark eyes and set her jaw. "I know you love him. I love him, too. But I am not trying to Heal the White Tower just so he can chain Aes Sedai like damane. Sleep well and have pleasant dreams, Elayne. Pleasant dreams are more valuable than people realize." And with that, she was gone, back to the waking world.

I think Egwene meant what she said—she still cares about Rand in her own way—but her tendency to assume the worst of him (like Rand having used Compulsion on the sworn Aes Sedai) excludes the possibility of any real friendship.

Edited May 23, 2011 by sleepinghour

b3arz3rg3r · May 23, 2011

I think it's right to say that for Rand Egwene is a typical ex-girlfriend. She never really was his friend, she was a former love interest, although I suspect a large part of Rand's feelings for her came from his strong sense of duty. Back in the TR he liked her and she was good looking and since it was kind of expected for them to marry he started to care for her more deeply because that's the duty of a good husband.

That's why he sees her as an old flame, he still carries the memories of his feelings for her, and that makes her more than just an acquaintance, she's someone he respects, but the lack of trust he has for her prevents him from regarding her as a friend.

As for Egwene, she doesn't share the same sort of sentimentality and unlike Rand who has just relearned to put the actual people first and not abstract concepts like institutions or nations for Egwene puts the good of the abstract before the good of the people. That's why her view of him is a lot harsher than his of her.

Edited May 23, 2011 by b3arz3rg3r

solarz · May 27, 2011

I think that only one true simple FM friendship shown in WoT is Birgitte and Mat , the other ones are guiding or alliance . Egwene and Rand relations are both guidance and alliance , they never discuss their inner problems each other , what is mean friendship , imho .

I think Moiraine and Lan are an example of true friendship as well. Yes, they were allies, and yes Lan took orders from Moiraine. But they obviously cared for each other above and beyond the calls of duty. It might not be as apparent for Moiraine, but remember what she did when she knew that she was going to die...

Elan Tedronai · May 28, 2011

rand and egwene spent the entire series away from each other and people are questioning if they are close buddies?

what the hell is going on here?!

White_star · May 28, 2011

It's apparent, to me anyway, that they had special feelings for each other in the beginning, at least until Falme. I don't know if I would call it "love" but it can be seen in the little things they did and said. He worrying about her as they left EF, running to her side after they crossed the river, feeling like he's loosing her when she starts talking to Moiraine. How they worried about each other personally before adding the others to their thoughts after they were all separated @ SL. Her reaction to Mat's 'Else' comment. She saying she would make him her warder. She trying to reassure Rand she only danced w/ Aram. Her jealousy of the Fal Dara girls interest in him. He trying to remain loyal to her as Selene tries to tempt him. All this says IMO that they had feelings for each other, but that's just my interpretation.

I also suspect they may have at the very least "experimented" w/ each other as far as kissing goes. Elayne could not have been his first real kiss cause he was not bashful about it at all, only worried about propriety of the situation, and there is only one person he would have done that with.

Of course this is all out the window now as Min saw it would be.

b3arz3rg3r and sleepinghour both said it well

When she said to his face that she loved him like a brother in TSR she may have felt like

but since she has never demonstrate it,

is more applicable even if a bit too extreme Edited May 29, 2011 by White_star

Apple13 · May 28, 2011

I never thought their relationship was really that much "friends", even when they were engaged, they weren't that close. It says in the books somewhere that Egwene had kind of a crush on Rand when they were younger, and the engagement was just made by her mother talking to Tam about it.

They seem to have a relationship based more on "respect" than friendship since they see each other as the Dragon Reborn and the Amyrlin.

USURP888 · May 30, 2011

rand and egwene spent the entire series away from each other and people are questioning if they are close buddies?

what the hell is going on here?!

The WOT series is 20 years old and people are still posting on forums talking about it.

What the hell is going on here?! /s

Lujen · June 6, 2011

I think he didn't add her on purpose. He obviously doesn't trust her and really has no reason to.

He proved his distrust when it becomes clear that he manipulated her into gathering a resistance against him.

He obviously knew that she would go against him and would refuse to work with him.

Edited June 6, 2011 by Lujen

Hopefire · June 7, 2011

I think he didn't add her on purpose. He obviously doesn't trust her and really has no reason to.

He proved his distrust when it becomes clear that he manipulated her into gathering a resistance against him.

He obviously knew that she would go against him and would refuse to work with him.

I don't really see that as mistrust so much as awareness. For example, I think that Rand trusts Elayne, but is also aware that when it comes down to it, Elayne will put Andor ahead of him. He's fine with that, and he respects her for it. He's similar to that himself in a lot of ways. Along those lines, he's aware that Egwene will put the White Tower ahead of him, and he's aware (and somewhat bemused I think) by an awareness that she'll naturally oppose him, like saidin and saidar.

Feral · June 7, 2011

Eh I don't think they were ever what I'd call friends really. I mean I never got the impresion that they spoke that much before they ran away from the Two Rivers.

DemandredFO · June 7, 2011

Rand and Egwene were together from EoTW to the beginning of tGH, some the end of tGH and tSR and most of FoH. I think the biggest diffence is that the other wanted to help Rand, but Egwene only wants to help her.

Kahsm · June 7, 2011

"You're troubled by him, Egwene. More than usual, I mean. I can tell. Why?"
"I have reason to be, Elayne. The eyes-and-ears report very troubling rumors. Only rumors, I hope, but if they aren't..." She was very much the Amyrlin Seat now, a short slender young woman who seemed strong as steel and tall as a mountain. Determination filled her dark eyes and set her jaw. "I know you love him. I love him, too. But I am not trying to Heal the White Tower just so he can chain Aes Sedai like damane. Sleep well and have pleasant dreams, Elayne. Pleasant dreams are more valuable than people realize." And with that, she was gone, back to the waking world.

I think Egwene meant what she said—she still cares about Rand in her own way—but her tendency to assume the worst of him (like Rand having used Compulsion on the sworn Aes Sedai) excludes the possibility of any real friendship.

Another Egwene trashing thread? "They're not friends cause Egwene is selfish and broke his heart QQ." Everyone knew they wern't getting married, including Rand. And you skipped over the KEY part in this quote:

"I have reason to be, Elayne. The eyes-and-ears report very troubling rumors. Only rumors, I hope, but if they aren't..." She was very much the Amyrlin Seat now

People complain about Perrin ditching his duties and admitting that he'd let the pattern fall to shreds in his fight to save Faile, but Egwene focusing on her significantly more important duties is somehow a bad thing. She didn't say Rand would leash Aes Sedai, she said she wasn't going to allow him to, based on the rumors she was hearing. If her eyes-and-ears were telling her things and she just ignored them she would be a terrible leader.

David Selig · June 7, 2011

But in the same chapter Egwene received a full report from Elayne that Rand was still in love with Elayne, mostly sane and had no problems remaining a friend of Nynaeve even after he learned she's a full Aes Sedai. This obviously makes the rumours of him leashing Aes Sedai extremely unlikely. Besides given that Elayne and Egwene share all info they have, Egwene must know at this point that Rand sent the captured damane and sul'dam to Caemlyn instead of keeping them with himself or in the Black tower, which also makes the rumours of Rand leashing Aes Sedai even more unlikely.

Edited June 7, 2011 by David Selig

Puny · June 7, 2011

"You're troubled by him, Egwene. More than usual, I mean. I can tell. Why?"
"I have reason to be, Elayne. The eyes-and-ears report very troubling rumors. Only rumors, I hope, but if they aren't..." She was very much the Amyrlin Seat now, a short slender young woman who seemed strong as steel and tall as a mountain. Determination filled her dark eyes and set her jaw. "I know you love him. I love him, too. But I am not trying to Heal the White Tower just so he can chain Aes Sedai like damane. Sleep well and have pleasant dreams, Elayne. Pleasant dreams are more valuable than people realize." And with that, she was gone, back to the waking world.

I think Egwene meant what she said—she still cares about Rand in her own way—but her tendency to assume the worst of him (like Rand having used Compulsion on the sworn Aes Sedai) excludes the possibility of any real friendship.

Another Egwene trashing thread? "They're not friends cause Egwene is selfish and broke his heart QQ." Everyone knew they wern't getting married, including Rand. And you skipped over the KEY part in this quote:

"I have reason to be, Elayne. The eyes-and-ears report very troubling rumors. Only rumors, I hope, but if they aren't..." She was very much the Amyrlin Seat now

People complain about Perrin ditching his duties and admitting that he'd let the pattern fall to shreds in his fight to save Faile, but Egwene focusing on her significantly more important duties is somehow a bad thing. She didn't say Rand would leash Aes Sedai, she said she wasn't going to allow him to, based on the rumors she was hearing. If her eyes-and-ears were telling her things and she just ignored them she would be a terrible leader.

If I hear another critiscm of Egwene as Egwene bashing I´m gonna ... I dk, tie their hands and tickle them until they beg for mercy!

Sure it´s her job to be annoying... I mean Amyrlin, and ofc she is to listen to her eyes-and-ears. But she detests that he is to chain Aes Sedai as damane, which he hasn´t (Aes Sedai has sworn, some willingly, some by ta´veren effect and some by Compelling) but she is willing to put a chain on all women who can channel tying them to the Tower. Admirable as that may be, she doesn´t even consider IF all those channeling women want a connection to the Tower or if that´s a good thing. (which I dont think, sure the numbers of AS are gonna increase, but in an enviroment like that most AS are gonna think the same, and evolution and change comes from people thinking different, and doing views differently and experimenting which the Kin, Aiel women) She and the AS is like the frakking Pope with rules and traditions, although in her favor, she is more willing to change then the actual Pope.

sleepinghour · June 7, 2011

"You're troubled by him, Egwene. More than usual, I mean. I can tell. Why?"
"I have reason to be, Elayne. The eyes-and-ears report very troubling rumors. Only rumors, I hope, but if they aren't..." She was very much the Amyrlin Seat now, a short slender young woman who seemed strong as steel and tall as a mountain. Determination filled her dark eyes and set her jaw. "I know you love him. I love him, too. But I am not trying to Heal the White Tower just so he can chain Aes Sedai like damane. Sleep well and have pleasant dreams, Elayne. Pleasant dreams are more valuable than people realize." And with that, she was gone, back to the waking world.

I think Egwene meant what she said—she still cares about Rand in her own way—but her tendency to assume the worst of him (like Rand having used Compulsion on the sworn Aes Sedai) excludes the possibility of any real friendship.

Another Egwene trashing thread? "They're not friends cause Egwene is selfish and broke his heart QQ." Everyone knew they wern't getting married, including Rand. And you skipped over the KEY part in this quote:

"I have reason to be, Elayne. The eyes-and-ears report very troubling rumors. Only rumors, I hope, but if they aren't..." She was very much the Amyrlin Seat now

People complain about Perrin ditching his duties and admitting that he'd let the pattern fall to shreds in his fight to save Faile, but Egwene focusing on her significantly more important duties is somehow a bad thing. She didn't say Rand would leash Aes Sedai, she said she wasn't going to allow him to, based on the rumors she was hearing. If her eyes-and-ears were telling her things and she just ignored them she would be a terrible leader.

All right, let's look at another quote from CoT, shall we?

There were Aes Sedai in Cairhien, and they seemed to be following the orders of the Dragon Reborn. Worse were the names that trickled out. Some were women who had been in Salidar, among the first to resist Elaida, while others were women known to be loyal to Elaida. No one had mentioned Compulsion aloud that Egwene knew of, but they had to be thinking it. [...]

"Siuan, if you see a way to make use of this, I wish you'd tell me. I don't even want to think about using the fact that Rand may have Compelled sisters. I don't want to think about the possibility that he could have." Neither about the possibility that he knew such a repulsive weave, or that he could lay that weave on anyone. [...]

Maybe Rand was in company with a Black sister [Cadsuane], or had been. Maybe he had used Compulsion on Aes Sedai. Bad enough on anyone, but somehow worse used on Aes Sedai, more ominous. What was dared against Aes Sedai was ten times, a hundred times, as likely to be used against those who could not defend themselves. Eventually they would have to deal with him, somehow. She had grown up with Rand, yet she could not allow that to influence her. He was the Dragon Reborn, now, the hope of the world and at the same time maybe the single greatest threat the world faced. Maybe? The Seanchan could not do as much damage as the Dragon Reborn. And she was going to use the possibility that he had Compelled sisters. The Amyrlin Seat really was a different woman from that innkeeper's daughter.

Egwene knows Rand is an incredibly strong ta'veren, but this possibility does not even cross her mind. Instead she only thinks about the possibility that Rand might have used Compulsion on the Aes Sedai. So I stand by my previous statement: Egwene's tendency to assume the worst of him excludes the possibility of any real friendship.

Rand's relationship with Egwene

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