Who were the male dreadlords at Maradon?

[MichaelOfTheWhite]

I don't have an exact quote but I have the impression of there being about six male dreadlords in the shadow's army. They destroyed the wall so that troops could enter Maradon.

 

Are these dreadlords asha'man sent by Taim to support Moridin or Demandred's armies? I can't recall there being much mention of what sort of 'missions' the asha'man are sent on - how else would Taim explain away their absence from the BT?

 

Logain has taken about half the asha'man out of the BT (by my estimation; although there might be many more than that in the BT now that Taim has been recruiting as many as he can since Logain left). Could some of Logain's men be supporting the shadows' armies?

[Terez]

We don't really have any idea who they were, but who says Taim has to explain anyone's absence from the Black Tower? Men go out on recruiting missions all the time. But it seems likely they have been training some men off-site, hence men like Kash who show up and are already at their full potential (or near to it).

[spoke]

We don't really have any idea who they were, but who says Taim has to explain anyone's absence from the Black Tower? Men go out on recruiting missions all the time. But it seems likely they have been training some men off-site, hence men like Kash who show up and are already at their full potential (or near to it).

 

unless of course Kash is really a forsaken in disguise (Demandred or Dashava reborn again).

[MasterAblar]

We don't really have any idea who they were, but who says Taim has to explain anyone's absence from the Black Tower? Men go out on recruiting missions all the time. But it seems likely they have been training some men off-site, hence men like Kash who show up and are already at their full potential (or near to it).

 

I agree, I think it's probably men who have been trained off-site. No reason to take risks.

[MichaelOfTheWhite]

So it's safe to assume that they work with (or are otherwise involved with) the ones at Moridin's fortress?

[MasterAblar]

So it's safe to assume that they work with (or are otherwise involved with) the ones at Moridin's fortress?

 

I suppose, they work for the shadow that's for sure. Which forsaken exactly is hard to say.

[Terez]

We don't really have any idea who they were, but who says Taim has to explain anyone's absence from the Black Tower? Men go out on recruiting missions all the time. But it seems likely they have been training some men off-site, hence men like Kash who show up and are already at their full potential (or near to it).

 

unless of course Kash is really a forsaken in disguise (Demandred or Dashava reborn again).

We know he's not Demandred because Brandon said Demandred wasn't in TOM. We know he's not Osan'ginor because of Egwene's dream indicating that there are only six Forsaken left - Moridin, Demandred, Graendal, Mesaana, Moghedien, and Cyndane.

[threadnecromancer]

We don't really have any idea who they were, but who says Taim has to explain anyone's absence from the Black Tower? Men go out on recruiting missions all the time. But it seems likely they have been training some men off-site, hence men like Kash who show up and are already at their full potential (or near to it).

 

unless of course Kash is really a forsaken in disguise (Demandred or Dashava reborn again).

We know he's not Demandred because Brandon said Demandred wasn't in TOM. We know he's not Osan'ginor because of Egwene's dream indicating that there are only six Forsaken left - Moridin, Demandred, Graendal, Mesaana, Moghedien, and Cyndane.

Was Kash actually in TOM? I thought he was merely briefly mentioned, still I think it is more likely that Kash is a Sharaman.

[cgk84]

I've been going on the assumption that a portion of them would just be regular Darkfriends, like the sort that tried to kill Rand and co. in the first 3 books, who manifested the power while young and brought north for "training". There were Dreadlords during the Trolloc Wars if I remember right and so there must always have been a steady flow of male Darkfriend channellers from the civilised nations who head to the Blight.

[capuga]

I've been going on the assumption that a portion of them would just be regular Darkfriends, like the sort that tried to kill Rand and co. in the first 3 books, who manifested the power while young and brought north for "training". There were Dreadlords during the Trolloc Wars if I remember right and so there must always have been a steady flow of male Darkfriend channellers from the civilised nations who head to the Blight.

 

While I don't actually disagree with what you're saying here, I'll point out that the term Dreadlord applies to both males and females. So we're not sure that there actually were any male channelers during the Trolloc Wars - all the Dreadlord could have been female.

[threadnecromancer]

I've been going on the assumption that a portion of them would just be regular Darkfriends, like the sort that tried to kill Rand and co. in the first 3 books, who manifested the power while young and brought north for "training". There were Dreadlords during the Trolloc Wars if I remember right and so there must always have been a steady flow of male Darkfriend channellers from the civilised nations who head to the Blight.

 

While I don't actually disagree with what you're saying here, I'll point out that the term Dreadlord applies to both males and females. So we're not sure that there actually were any male channelers during the Trolloc Wars - all the Dreadlord could have been female.

I think that RJ said that "yes the women were called Dreadlords too" which indicates fairly clearly that there were at least some male Dreadlords.

[Hopefire]

I've been going on the assumption that a portion of them would just be regular Darkfriends, like the sort that tried to kill Rand and co. in the first 3 books, who manifested the power while young and brought north for "training". There were Dreadlords during the Trolloc Wars if I remember right and so there must always have been a steady flow of male Darkfriend channellers from the civilised nations who head to the Blight.

 

While I don't actually disagree with what you're saying here, I'll point out that the term Dreadlord applies to both males and females. So we're not sure that there actually were any male channelers during the Trolloc Wars - all the Dreadlord could have been female.

Plus, all those Black Ajah members running from the White Tower had to go somewhere...

 

For those that joined up for reasons like Sheriam did, apparently just to get ahead in the pecking order, suddenly having to work with Fades and worse must be a shock to the system. I can't imagine that too many of the Black Ajah, used to manipulation and deception, are altogether happy in their current circumstances - I doubt the average Fade is easy to intimidate by the Black Ajah.

[Barid Bel Medar]

To cover all bases, there are a few possibilties.

 

1. Taim sent them, he is a darkfriend, leader of the Black Tower. He is in a position to do so. (a no, brainer)

 

2. Moridin. He has his servant Black Coats at his fortress, known ties with some Asha'man. He is the one that has been building the armies in the Blight (according to Graendal).

 

3. Demandred. Known ties to the Black Tower/Ashaman. We have no idea what he is up to. So bringing these Dreadlords is as good as any theory i suppose.

 

4. Moggy/Cyndane. For the simple reason that they are both working for Moridin, who seems to be controlling the armies of trollocs out of the Blight (again, according to Graendal tGS prologue) and said to be "rallying Darkfriends".

 

5. Male Aiel channelers, or the red-veils that are seen in the epilogue. Not a popular one, but still a possibility.

[Barid Bel Medar]

We don't really have any idea who they were, but who says Taim has to explain anyone's absence from the Black Tower? Men go out on recruiting missions all the time. But it seems likely they have been training some men off-site, hence men like Kash who show up and are already at their full potential (or near to it).

 

unless of course Kash is really a forsaken in disguise (Demandred or Dashava reborn again).

We know he's not Demandred because Brandon said Demandred wasn't in TOM. We know he's not Osan'ginor because of Egwene's dream indicating that there are only six Forsaken left - Moridin, Demandred, Graendal, Mesaana, Moghedien, and Cyndane.

Was Kash actually in TOM? I thought he was merely briefly mentioned, still I think it is more likely that Kash is a Sharaman.

 

You are correct. Technically, it could be Demandred, since he wasnt actually in ToM, he was merely mentioned. However, there is no evidence really to support this theory, and I dont see why it should be Demandred really.

[Guest deadguydrew]

I don't think they were anyone (or any group) in particular. They were just their to show that the Dreadlords had returned and were active once more. If I had to hazard a guess that they were a named group, I would say that they were some of Taim's flunkies if only because they never engaged the rest of the Ashaman directly afterward (they wouldn't want to let the world or their comrades know that they are working for the dark).

[Muad Cheade]

It seems that the Shadow is currently limiting the roles of their channelers perhaps in order to focus more on the Black Tower.

[DocBean]

I think it was pretty obvious that the channelers were Ashamen.

From the very moment a man learns to channel Taim is teaching him how to blow up rocks.

I think it's pretty obvious who's behind the wall explosion.

 

 

What did they say, that there were like six of them?

My guess is there were probably some sisters linked to them as well.

 

"Just like practice guys. Concentrate right there!" [boom!]

[Guest redzimmer]

I suspect they are akin the sharpened-tooth Aiel encountered at the end of TOM. Could be these Aiel male channelers who go to the Blight are caught in a circle of channellers and Fades, who it has often been said can turn a channeller to the DO.

[Nooska]

I suspect they are akin the sharpened-tooth Aiel encountered at the end of TOM. Could be these Aiel male channelers who go to the Blight are caught in a circle of channellers and Fades, who it has often been said can turn a channeller to the DO.

Those are not the channelers you ar elooking for.

Also, they are not Aiel.

[haloun]

thank you nooska, they are NOT aiel. as for the male channelers i would assume that they are taim toadies. doing his shadow stuff, the same with the one in the perrin fight.

[MikeRiley]

I was under the impression that the channelers at Maradon were incredibly weak. It took them a long time to actually cause the damage and they did nothing else afterward. That meant to me that it was probably the not-aiel we see at the end of the book. Had they been Asha'man then Maradon would have been leveled in a pretty short time. Also remember that there were channelers working the portal stones in the Perrin plot too. It has the feel to me of a lot of weak channelers trained to do one thing.

[Lord D]

I was under the impression that the channelers at Maradon were incredibly weak. It took them a long time to actually cause the damage and they did nothing else afterward. That meant to me that it was probably the not-aiel we see at the end of the book. Had they been Asha'man then Maradon would have been leveled in a pretty short time. Also remember that there were channelers working the portal stones in the Perrin plot too. It has the feel to me of a lot of weak channelers trained to do one thing.

Maybe they're elements of Dem's army. If Dem's army is from the LoM, channelers there would be untrained and would mostly die pretty quickly given the madness and the cannibalistic society.

[Ogrelin]

I was under the impression that the channelers at Maradon were incredibly weak. It took them a long time to actually cause the damage and they did nothing else afterward. That meant to me that it was probably the not-aiel we see at the end of the book. Had they been Asha'man then Maradon would have been leveled in a pretty short time. Also remember that there were channelers working the portal stones in the Perrin plot too. It has the feel to me of a lot of weak channelers trained to do one thing.

 

They were pretty far away imho, doesn't that make it abit harder?

[Orderofolde]

We don't really have any idea who they were, but who says Taim has to explain anyone's absence from the Black Tower? Men go out on recruiting missions all the time. But it seems likely they have been training some men off-site, hence men like Kash who show up and are already at their full potential (or near to it).

There's a big problem with that. Both Perrin's Ashaman and Rodel Ituralde's outside of Maradon reported that they sensed one while the portal stones were being worked, and "weak" channeling. This goes against earlier rules and whatnot in the series that "Only the Strongest Aes Sedai in the Age of Legends could use them" (The Great Hunt). It took Lanfear to move her, Rand, Loial, and Hurin into the pale version of the other-Randland. It was also established that the portal stones were from an Age before the Age of Legends, and even in the Age of Legends, very little was known about them, perhaps only a little more than the one book whose few pages Loial knew of or the scraps of the book Selene/Lanfear claimed to have read. This goes against it being the Ashaman logically for two reasons. Taim's Ashamen are strong channelers, and the portal stones require massive channeling to work but twice we see reports of weak channeling bringing endless-seeming hordes of Trollocks and Fades, the channelers popping "in and out."

 

What's going on? Surely this isn't an oversight on Brandon's part. Is some close near-Randland otherworld Shadow army fleeing utter defeat and throwing their lot in with our Randland? We've gone from the blight retreating to coming on fast and with fury despite Rand defeating massive armies in Tarwin's Gap, outside the Manor House, all the raiding parties in the Waste, elsewhere (can't remember if it was in the Stone in Tear or in Cairhien), Caemlyn. The defeat of the Trollocks by Banner General Tylee just outside of the city returning from the Perrin Alliance. Not to mention Rand BF'ing more Chosen. Now they are being double-fisted into Arafel, Saldea, Caemlyn, Gealhdan (sp?), etc in such masses.

 

I think Rand should venture and collect other armies of light from almost-defeat in other near-realms and those not so near. Bring forth the massive armies of Malkier, Manetheren, Coremanda, Aridhol, and the others of the Pact of the Ten Nations, and a few White-Tower loads of Aes Sedai into the bargain. Would there happen to be a portal stone at the Field of Merrilor, by chance?

[DocBean]

We don't really have any idea who they were, but who says Taim has to explain anyone's absence from the Black Tower? Men go out on recruiting missions all the time. But it seems likely they have been training some men off-site, hence men like Kash who show up and are already at their full potential (or near to it).

There's a big problem with that. Both Perrin's Ashaman and Rodel Ituralde's outside of Maradon reported that they sensed one while the portal stones were being worked, and "weak" channeling. This goes against earlier rules and whatnot in the series that "Only the Strongest Aes Sedai in the Age of Legends could use them" (The Great Hunt). It took Lanfear to move her, Rand, Loial, and Hurin into the pale version of the other-Randland. It was also established that the portal stones were from an Age before the Age of Legends, and even in the Age of Legends, very little was known about them, perhaps only a little more than the one book whose few pages Loial knew of or the scraps of the book Selene/Lanfear claimed to have read. This goes against it being the Ashaman logically for two reasons. Taim's Ashamen are strong channelers, and the portal stones require massive channeling to work but twice we see reports of weak channeling bringing endless-seeming hordes of Trollocks and Fades, the channelers popping "in and out."

 

What's going on? Surely this isn't an oversight on Brandon's part. Is some close near-Randland otherworld Shadow army fleeing utter defeat and throwing their lot in with our Randland? We've gone from the blight retreating to coming on fast and with fury despite Rand defeating massive armies in Tarwin's Gap, outside the Manor House, all the raiding parties in the Waste, elsewhere (can't remember if it was in the Stone in Tear or in Cairhien), Caemlyn. The defeat of the Trollocks by Banner General Tylee just outside of the city returning from the Perrin Alliance. Not to mention Rand BF'ing more Chosen. Now they are being double-fisted into Arafel, Saldea, Caemlyn, Gealhdan (sp?), etc in such masses.

 

I think Rand should venture and collect other armies of light from almost-defeat in other near-realms and those not so near. Bring forth the massive armies of Malkier, Manetheren, Coremanda, Aridhol, and the others of the Pact of the Ten Nations, and a few White-Tower loads of Aes Sedai into the bargain. Would there happen to be a portal stone at the Field of Merrilor, by chance?

 

 

That's a good catch. I never thought about the weak channeling working the portal stones. I just thought portal stones were being used to explain where all of these millions of trollocs are coming from.

There is no way they could reproduce so quickly or live so well in the blight, so portal stones is a great way to bring countless into Randland.

 

We already know of one mirror world that was taken over by shadowspawn, so it's an easy explaination.

However, why a weak channeler? Maybe it's a weak male bonded with a strong female, and that's why the ashamen only felt a weak channeler. Maybe Grendal needed some help from an ashamen for some reason.

 

I was really disappointed that we didn't see how Perrin's group won that fight. I thought we'd see a nice Ashamen fight.