What are some Big Things you only noticed after a bunch of Re-Reads???

[The Fisher King]

Topic Title: What are some Big Things you only noticed after a bunch of Re-Reads???

 

Topic Description: Ever go DUH!! - bc U first caught something on like your fourth read?

 

 

Fish Speak:

 

 

Good to see you DMers! Thanks for the well wishes while the family and I have been dealing with some 'Life' stuff. I have read TOM (though no TOM spoilers follow, of course) and I am working on my review of TOM (and TGS, since I didn't do one last year) as well as a post on some of the newer prophecies introduced in the last 2 books. I've loved and appreciated all the cool stuff done here regarding TOM - Signing Reports have ROCKED! I hope everyone is doing super-well! ... One hint: My review of TOM is titled: Beautiful Disaster ;-)

 

*Ok. Onward:*

 

Arguably my favorite aspect of WOT has always been the depth - and the fact that it holds up so well to numerous rereads. I believe it holds up so well to multiple rereads (Aside from it just being bloody AWESOME, of course, lol) is partly because of that depth, and partly because Jordan was a MASTER (imo) of hiding little nuggest of great importance within a long Stream-Of-Conciousness rant or within a page of description about a vase, lol. It makes re-reads feel like 'Treasure Hunts' to me.

 

What are some things you ONLY picked up on after several re-reads....either things that you were like ''DUH! - I can't BELIEVE I never caught that before!'' ... or maybe just things you thought were cool when you finally figured it out?

 

Let me share a few personal examples:

 

 

1 Can you believe that I JUST *RECENTLY* caught on that the M'Hael has been using frakkin COMPULSION probably since book 8, 9 or 10???

 

2 Ok, in my defense for this one, I was young and innocent when I first read The Great Hunt many moons ago, but I finally realized just what it was The Gray Fox found so funny when, in TGH, Rand related to him that those nobllewomen were ''missing their husbands'' lol!

 

3 Do you guys know how LONG it took me to figure out that ''or very stupid'' was what Moiraine Sedai meant to follow her ''very brave'' remark to Mat in FOH, lol??? ... Yes, thats me: a bit slow on the uptake still.

 

4 I *STILL* don't understand what Elayne and Nynaeve's 'Master Plan' was in terms of how they were trying to use Mat to get the bargain they wanted with the Sea Folk back at Tylin's palace after obtaining the Bowl of the Winds??? - They just wanted to watch him Bully them and see if his being a Ta'veren did something beneficial??? - Not the greatest plan, lol.

 

5 How long it took me to figure out that Cadsuane's 'Hair Thingies' were actually a bunch of Wells ... told you: sloooooow am I, lol.

 

6 What Verin ''finally being sure of Cadsuane'' really meant...MAN, Verin was HARD-CORE!!!

 

 

...Well, those are a few of mine. In my defense I will say that I called Asmo's killer since Day One and I also called Mat's ashandarei about a certain something too ;)

 

Of course, these two probably do not offset all my MASSIVELY WRONGO theories over the years!

 

 

But I suspect I'll carry on ;-)

 

 

Ok - Your Turn! :)

 

 

...Fish

 

''I have another man to kill first."- Thom Merrilin; a gleeman and one-time court bard...known by some as 'The Gray Fox' - according to Moiraine Damodred; an Aes Sedai of the Blue Ajah.

[Sid]

It took me a few times to notice that Tuon is actually mentioned by name as early as The Great Hunt.

 

I don't know how I missed that Asmodean was responsible for Couladin's dragon markings, but I never realized that until I saw someone mention it on an online forum.

 

Siuan's 'too young Sitters' puzzle went waaay over my head until I saw it spelled out in the FAQ, which had a kick-ass summary of what it all meant (and I think it turned out to be completely correct on every count 2 whole books before the in-story reveal).

 

I know I wasn't alone in being completely confused by Verin's true intentions, but after TGS 39 I reread all her scenes and it made a lot more sense.

 

I have to admit that every reread I see about a half dozen things I never noticed before. I'm having trouble thinking of them to mention, though. Obviously way more than I posted here.

 

As for what Nyneave and Elayne were up to at the end of ACoS with Mat, I had to think about it for awhile because I was looking at it the same way Mat was, and he was really confused. The girls were insightful enough to see that their previous dealings with the Sea Folk were disastrous and that they were completely out of their league, so they kept their mouths shut (for once) and had Mat's Ta'veren-ness work things out. They knew he wanted to leave ASAP, so by doing nothing they knew he would do something, and it turned out far better than it probably would have otherwise.

 

 

It's nice to see you back posting, Fish.

[jwillis7]

that in tSR when verin askes perrin when he is going to give up the hammer, that she is asking when Tarmon Gai'don is going to be

 

and how do we know Taim is using compulsion.... I's slower than you, it is just a few months ago that i got the sword in the stone Arthur reference....

[moratcorlm]

1 Can you believe that I JUST *RECENTLY* caught on that the M'Hael has been using frakkin COMPULSION probably since book 8, 9 or 10???

Do you have a quote for that?

How long it took me to figure out that Cadsuane's 'Hair Thingies' were actually a bunch of Wells

They aren't.

[pghrob]

1 Can you believe that I JUST *RECENTLY* caught on that the M'Hael has been using frakkin COMPULSION probably since book 8, 9 or 10???

Do you have a quote for that?

How long it took me to figure out that Cadsuane's 'Hair Thingies' were actually a bunch of Wells

They aren't.

Taim taught all the Asha'man compulsion. It is brought to light when the Asha'man capture the WT Aes Sedai. I don't have the books here with me, but it was to the effect of: "Sorry Aes Sedai, this is how I was taught." He kissed her and she was unable to resist him.

 

Caddy's 'Hair Thingies" are not "just" wells. We know that there is one that can tell when a man wields the one power.

[moratcorlm]

Yes, but "the M'Hael has been using Compulsion" seems to suggest that Taim has actually, well, been using Compulsion, and probably more than just the relatively minor form used with the Aes Sedai bonds (which Taim doesn't hold). Not to mention that it's not clear where the orders are coming from for either the bonding or the Compelling aspect, since Logain tells his followers one thing and Rand something entirely different, or that Taim was the one who taught the Compulsion aspect of the weave. The Warder bond itself was invented by one of Logain's partisans, and it seems possible that the kiss originated with that part rather than the other.

[randsc]

In retrospect, it makes perfect sense that Mat would be the Dark One, but I didn't really pick up the clues until I read the last book.

[NetSlider]

When Perrin meet Alias (sp) and tell his and Egy's story he says that they did not go to Saldea's capital to see the king b/c "their parents will look there first". Well, Saldea has a queen, not a king.

[dovien]

Sure but Perrin and Egwene don't know that.

[capuga]

It took me several re-reads to notice that Noal and Jain Farstrider had the same last name and were likely the same person. This was before the book where Noal talks about being Jain's cousin, but I still felt a little silly I didn't notice it earlier.

[OptimusPrime]

I picked up on "Moiraine sent me" but I didnt think it was an outright lie.

[blazetheearth]

Yes, but "the M'Hael has been using Compulsion" seems to suggest that Taim has actually, well, been using Compulsion, and probably more than just the relatively minor form used with the Aes Sedai bonds (which Taim doesn't hold). Not to mention that it's not clear where the orders are coming from for either the bonding or the Compelling aspect, since Logain tells his followers one thing and Rand something entirely different, or that Taim was the one who taught the Compulsion aspect of the weave. The Warder bond itself was invented by one of Logain's partisans, and it seems possible that the kiss originated with that part rather than the other.

 

When Taim taunts Bashere in LoC saying, "I hope you allowed them to serve you, that's all they are really good for now. They really shouldn't have tried to attack me under a flag of truce." I had originally thought that this referred to Taim using Compulsion on them, but there was a question about it either in a Tor Question of the Week or a booksigning, and RJ denied it. He said that Taim had basically erased their minds instead, turning them into idiots. The AM Bond that is performed by Logain and Co was discovered by Jur Grady, not Taim.

 

The most recent "DUH" moment I have had was in a re-read of TGS, when Graendal tells us that Asha'man are patrolling around Moridin's Fortress in the Blight. I had simply read them as normal guards before, and completely missed her pointing out that none of Moridin's black-uniformed guards don't sweat, despite the heat that deep in the Blight.

[The Fisher King]

HEY EVER E. BOD E. !!! (((Waves))) ... Thanks for all the RE-Plies ... I really enjoyed readings them. And, I sorry - DEEPLY sorry - that I are slower than Rand Al Thor when Cairhien Babes is chatting him up about their husbands being away in getting back to yall! ... Life can blow and Life can go but either way you gotta row!

 

Ok, I just wanted to make a few comments to each of you specifically:

 

1: Jwillis: Check out Ishadar's post below. Way too better explanation than I could giv.

 

2: Sid: Did I say ''Thanks''?

 

3: Moratcorim: Book 12 confirms what I'm saying regarding this. If I conveyed that Cadsuane Melhaidrin's ''Hair Thingys'' (Paralis Ter' angreal) were JUST Wells, then I apologize for my poor phrasing.

 

4: Mark: I picked it up - but then I actually BELIEVED RJ when he said Noal was NOT Jain. I was so naive...

 

5: Drekka Mort: Good see you! I totally WAY missed Verin's Lie. I just thought that Moiraine figured that Verin must have misunderstood her.

 

6: Ishadar: GREAT Post!!!

 

7: Dovien Gleeman: VERY true!

 

8: randsc: LOL!!!

 

9: pghrob: See what I said to Moratcorim ;)

 

10: Netslider: Well, if Tenobia gets breathed on the wrong way a blacksmith's daddy-in-law gets named ''Mr King'' ;)

 

 

- Fish

 

 

Why Im Thankful To 2010: Getting to hear the phrase ''At the end of the day'' 6 Brazillion times and words like ''Trending'' - ''Fail'' - Epic'' - ''Ownage'' and ''FTW'' (Or is that last one an actual 'word'?) ... Also Im thankful that my suspicions about Graendal were right alll along...That she IS hotter than Halima, Berelain and Lanfear.

 

WAR The Gray Fox!!!

[White_star]

Rand's channeling sickness/reactions in TEOTW. It took me THREE rereads before I put what Moraine was telling Nynaeve to why Rand was acting weird and feeling ill. lol! Light I hope I wasn't the only one.

[The Fisher King]

Whitestar - LOL! I thought I mentioned that just above in my post earlier today. But you were NOT alone. I didn't really start to understand ''Rand/Channeling'' until TGH - LOL!!!

 

 

- Fish

[sfgiantsfanmike]

Rand's channeling sickness/reactions in TEOTW. It took me THREE rereads before I put what Moraine was telling Nynaeve to why Rand was acting weird and feeling ill. lol! Light I hope I wasn't the only one.

 

I remember missing that my first read through! On my second I was thinking, "wait a tick... RJ really just did foreshadow that perfectly!"

 

So many I could probably share... if I could remember. I do remember being surprised about Verin being what she was. I mean, Verin? Really? I hope to catch all the little signs this read through.

[The Fisher King]

Hey sfgiantsfanmike: I was DEFINITELY on the ''Somethings Up With Verin'' bandwagon from early on, but I never truly thought she was BA.

 

 

- Fish

 

Why Im Thankful To 2010: Getting to hear the phrase ''At the end of the day'' 6 Brazillion times and words like ''Trending'' - ''Fail'' - Epic'' - ''Ownage'' and ''FTW'' (Or is that last one an actual 'word'?) ... Also Im thankful that my suspicions about Graendal were right alll along...That she IS hotter than Halima, Berelain and Lanfear.

 

''I have another man to kill first."- Thom Merrilin; a gleeman and one-time court bard...known by some as 'The Gray Fox' - according to Moiraine Damodred; an Aes Sedai of the Blue Ajah.

 

 

WAR The Gray Fox!!!

[Suttree]

4: Mark: I picked it up - but then I actually BELIEVED RJ when he said Noal was NOT Jain. I was so naive...

 

Would you mind providing the quote. I have never heard that RJ mentioned that and would like to check it out. Thanks Fish!

[yoniy0]

For what it's worth, I never put Moiraine admission that she hasn't sent Verin together with what Verin flat out said. It was Terez that finally opened my eyes to that one, not a full year ago, I believe. Also, I think I had to read the FAQ to get why Rand was attacked at the end of TPoD.

One thing I did catch on my own was the airstrike the Seanchan were planning. Definitely not the first time I read KoD, but after a few times I did. It's not the same, though, because I had to wait to see if I was right.

[Exy]

Rand's channeling sickness/reactions in TEOTW. It took me THREE rereads before I put what Moraine was telling Nynaeve to why Rand was acting weird and feeling ill. lol! Light I hope I wasn't the only one.

I totally never noticed that on my own. In fact, I didn't pick up on there being anything to notice. "Oh, huh, Rand's feeling sick. Oh, huh, Rand's having some fun with those Whitecloaks." I only learned about it from the FAQ.

[WTF]

well it wasint till my 4th or 5th Re-Read to pick up on what "pillow friends" ment

[Luckers]

well it wasint till my 4th or 5th Re-Read to pick up on what "pillow friends" ment

 

Friends brought together by an interest in the various type of pillows that exist?

[Dragons_Eggman]

well it wasint till my 4th or 5th Re-Read to pick up on what "pillow friends" ment

 

Friends brought together by an interest in the various type of pillows that exist?

 

lol, you're a droll man Luckers

[Tiinker]

Pillow friends are best friends...arn't they?

[PraySilence]

It took me a re-read to realise the (attempted) capture of Egwene, Nynaeve and Elayne by the Seanchan at Falme was actually a darkfriend plot to draw Rand even more strongly to Falme, where Ishamael would confront him.