How come Rahvin doesnt recognize Mat

[Mighty Chin]

In The Dragon Reborn when Mat meets Queen Morgase; Rahvin is there as well. The Dark One knows what the three Two Rivers boys looks like now as evidenced in The Great Hunt at the Darkfriend meeting. If a Myrdrrall knows what they look like and shows it to the room full of Darkfriends wouldn't it stand to reason that one if not all of the Forsaken would also know what they look like?

 

It seems odd to me.

[blazetheearth]

I understand where you are coming from with this, and really the only way I can explain it is by pointing out that the Forsaken are not known for freely sharing information among themselves, and you have to remember that it was Ishy/Ba'alzamon that held that DF meeting and passed on the information to Bors and the rest. Rahvin had only been free for less than a year and all 3 ta'veren disappeared for 4 months during part of that (via Portal Stone) when Mat met him. No reason to think that Ishy would have passed on the info because he didn't want to share power. Also we see in TFoH that Rahvin considers Ishy "half-mad and less than half-human". Another time it is remarked that the other Forsaken thinks that Ishy believes that "he is the Great Lord". All the more reason for Ishy not to pass on to the other Forsaken the information he knows.

 

Best reasoning I can come up with.

Edited December 4, 2010 by Ishadar

[Feral]

Well from a general point of view recognising faces you've only seen once can be harder than you'd think. Also, when it comes to people we're not familiar with we tend to judge by things like hair and beards (if male). And of course these two things can change quite a bit fairly quickly.

[mb]

Dark One? It might have been Ishamael or that first myrddraal (which was in Two Rivers) that first new what the 3 taveren looked like. Certainly Ishamael was the first of the Forsaken.

Lanfear was next (Great Hunt).

 

Rahvin probably had too little time to find out on his own.

Also the first 2 were able to like find taveren; Rahvin I take was not able.

[moratcorlm]

“Perrin Aybara and Mat Cauthon,” Semirhage murmured, inspecting the two shapes. “So that is what they look like. Who knows, Moridin. If you had shared this with us before now, they might already have been dead.”

[Androl]

“Perrin Aybara and Mat Cauthon,” Semirhage murmured, inspecting the two shapes. “So that is what they look like. Who knows, Moridin. If you had shared this with us before now, they might already have been dead.”

The DO's minions just never cease to amaze me with their ineptitude. Unfortunately, it is a significant trait of the Light side as well. And that is not even including Elida.

[Mighty Chin]

Ahhhhh thx for that

[Glexn]

In one of the later books (I can't remember which, maybe Winter's Heart or Knife of Dreams) the Forsaken are talking about killing Rand, but Moridin says no. "If you want to kill someone, kill these two." He then shows the Forsaken Mat and Perrin. One of the Forsaken comments, "If you had shared this with us earlier..."

[mb]

In one of the later books (I can't remember which, maybe Winter's Heart or Knife of Dreams) the Forsaken are talking about killing Rand, but Moridin says no. "If you want to kill someone, kill these two." He then shows the Forsaken Mat and Perrin. One of the Forsaken comments, "If you had shared this with us earlier..."

Another poster quoted a part of that scene.

Knife of Dreams Chapter 3.

 

 

Sammael, if I remember correctly, was the 4th Forsaken to figure out Mat's appearance. Crown of Swords right after (or during) the visit to that Whitecloak Darkfriend.

 

Semirhage was the 5th Forsaken that seen Mat. Winter's Heart

 

The rest of the alive Forsaken found out through the above mentioned meeting.

[moratcorlm]

Ishamael and Lanfear certainly knew. Aginor and Balthamel did as well, and Aran'gar seemed to show she remembered when she ran across Mat in Salidar. Asmodean, of course. It's possible but somewhat unlikely that Mesaana knew. The rest did not. Sammael did not see Mat in Ebou Dar, or at any rate is not shown doing it, though he later gives the gholam instructions specific enough to identify him.

[Kaznen]

When Rahvin and Mat "met" in tDR Rahvin asked his name and Mat got a funny feeling in the back of his head and gave some name he made up, he even avoided talking about TR. If Mat said his name was Mat Cauthorn he wouldn't have left the palace alive.

[Demiandre]

He said Thom Grinswell. From Carysford IIRC.

 

Isn't it Carridin who recognize Mat through the window and say it to Sammael? Just before Mili Skane enters? Or something like that, it's a bit fuzzy

[nsmallw]

 

“Perrin Aybara and Mat Cauthon,” Semirhage murmured, inspecting the two shapes. “So that is what they look like. Who knows, Moridin. If you had shared this with us before now, they might already have been dead.”

Thanks for this reference . I am re-reading TDR now and wondered why Rahvin didn't recognize Mat.

[Orderofolde]

He said Thom Grinswell. From Carysford IIRC.

 

Isn't it Carridin who recognize Mat through the window and say it to Sammael? Just before Mili Skane enters? Or something like that, it's a bit fuzzy

Mili is there and he looks out the window and time seems to freeze, and poof the forsaken is there as if summoned by the sighting of Mat.  Noel was the old man Mat speaks with outside as well.  He was also previously at the race track following Mili or maybe Mat.  When time resumes Carridin is standing elsewhere and Mili sort of does a doubletake wondering how in the middle of their conversation he went from one spot to clear across the room.

[Finnssss22]

 

 

“Perrin Aybara and Mat Cauthon,” Semirhage murmured, inspecting the two shapes. “So that is what they look like. Who knows, Moridin. If you had shared this with us before now, they might already have been dead.”

Thanks for this reference . I am re-reading TDR now and wondered why Rahvin didn't recognize Mat.

 

 

And for similar reasons Semirhage didn't recognize Mat or his name in WH when they met face to face. They didn't call him Mat Cauthon in the palace, he was referred to among the Seanchan as Tylin's Toy.

 

One of my favourite minor scenes btw

 

 

 

WH-17: 

It was not the presence of Suroth or the strangers that jerked him to a halt though.The Dice had stopped. Landing with a thunder that made his skull ring. That had never happened before. 

He stood there waiting for one of the Forsaken to leap out of the flames in the marble fireplace or the Earth to swallow the Palace beneath him.

[Sabio]

I think it mostly comes down to the forsaken aren't really great for sharing information with each other, and IShy was pretty insane by then.

[jack of shadows]

communication breakdown doesn't stop with the forsaken,

it's the biggest problem in the wheel of time,our heroes,

were not big on sharing information either!

[thehumantrashcan]

communication breakdown doesn't stop with the forsaken,

it's the biggest problem in the wheel of time,our heroes,

were not big on sharing information either!

One of the aspects of the story that annoyed me so much and one of the reasons I kept turning the page.

[mb]

the Light side seemed to have good reasons for most information they withheld.

 

Dark side; the Forsaken seemed to be not the only ones.

[Dreamer783]

Everyone has secrets but the forsaken hold back almost everything so they might have the upper hand or a slight advantage.