Discuss Egwene

[f3llyn]

Just by reading ToM and the actions of new Rand there you can come to the simple conclusion of how good AS in time of AoL would have been.

We don't know anything about how the AoL Aes Sedai were, I don't know where you're getting this information. Just because Rand acts a certain way, just because he is at peace with himself doesn't mean that's how all the Aes Sedai of the Age of Legends were, or that it's even how Lews Therin was. You seem to think they were all super kind benevolent people that would give you the shirt off their back of throw their coat over a puddle of mud so a stranger wouldn't have to get his shoes wet. They weren't. If anything, we have reason to believe that all the Aes Sedai of the AoL were super arrogant and thought very little of those below them. Incidentally, the Aiel were the ones that were closer to your thinking than the Aes Sedai.

 

You're reading waaaay to much into things, or over thinking them. And please please please combine your posts.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Just read through all the posts here, so Ill comment on all.

 

Egwene hatred is a bit much, Ill agree. Alot of it comes from things that the reader knows but she doesnt.

 

Exy is a complete fool however, blindly defending egwene like she was jesus. I smell a feminist here. I understand that some of the hate is unjustified, but seriously, whoever this is needs to get down off the feminist pedestal. NONE of the characters are as great as you think Egwene is.

 

Egwene is like pre VoG Rand. Stubborn and unwilling to admit fault. Thats something she needs to get over, same as Rand needed to overcome it. The reason we as the readers sympathise with Rand in this regard is that he has good reason to be like that. the Aes Sedai put him in a damn box for gods sake. He did haave a right, although it wwent toooo far what with the weight of the world on his shoulders and all.

 

Egwene has the same problem, only without the reason. The only reason she treats Gawyn, Rand and any man disrespectfully is because she wants to be seen as the Amyrlin and all powerful. She thinks she controls the world. Plain and simple. She even admits it to Gaywn. She wants NOONE to see her admit defeat or conceed. She is Aes Sedai to the core. Now anyone but a diehard feminist who hates anything with the word "male" in it can see that the White Tower and Aes Sedai need an attitude check, their society does not work efficiantly. it is based on fear of the OP, thats all. They make 2 mistakes for every 1 victory.

 

The whole point of VoG and Nynaeve in ToM was to re-enforce the point that Rand and the Aes Sedai cannot do what they have been doing. They need to care. Re-read Nynaeve's testing, it says it all.

 

Egwene is your classic Aes Sedai. They have some good points. The main being channeling. And she is commited to fighting the shadow, anyone who says she isnt is a fool. Egwene is definitely one of the "good guys."

 

As to Egwene's reaction to Rand's visit. I dont think anyone should get angry at her. In fact, Egwene haters should enjoy it. Rand played her like a flute. Beside Rand/Lews Therin superman she is a babbling child. Rand wanted her to do exactly what she has done. Bring the nations together to "oppose" his plan while he is off actually doing important stuff. Basically Egwene's blustering about trying to stop him is pointless. He doesnt care if the whole world is against him, he is going to break the seals no matter what. He purposely let Egwene think he was mad so she would gather everyone for war, if not for the reason she thinks.

 

So it was not this point that Egwene failed in. It is her lack of knowledge and foolishness. I have posted in other topics, this is how Egwene will sound.

 

"Rand, you cant break the seals, its mad."

 

"I have to egwene, must clear the rubble. I remember as Lews Therin I did it wrong last time. I plan to do it right now."

 

"No you cant, your mad."

 

"well, what should I do?"

 

"Not break the seals. Its mad. I am the Amyrlin."

 

"You have any better ideas"

 

"No... But I am Amyrlin."

 

The main mistake Egwene made was not at least setting ONE brown sister to study the DO and seals. She herself was focused on other things, Mesaana was a fair "distraction" you cant blame her. But as soon as Rand left, she should ahve gathered a group of Browns and said "find a way to beat the DO without breaking the seals." Or something.

 

She condemned Elaida for trying to control Rand, yet she is gathering the whole world against him, and she has no clue as to how they can beat the DO. Its flawed logic, plain and simple, wether u hate her or not.

 

I could go on and on about her foolish mistakes, her discrimination, hypocracy and bitch of a personality, but its all been said.

 

The point is that while Egwene is far from a terrible person. She IS good, no matter how many mistakes and pigheaded moments she has. She is a 19 year old girl, forced to become one of the most influential ruler in the world, she is doing a great job of it if you look at the situation. THe Shadow is sowing Chaos, the pattern is unravelling, Aes Sedai are still alive (jkz) and the world is in general dissaray.

 

However, on the other side of the coin, Egwene believes she is allmighty because she has become the Amyrlin. Just because she is doing a decent job, she now thinks shhe is some kind of infallable genius who is always right. Much like Rand did pre VoG. She just needs to remember she is human and makes mistakes. She needs to stop trying to force people to respect and obey her and actually get on with the job.

 

She wonders why Gawyn disobeyed her? Of course he did. She was too busy trying to MAKE him obey her that she was blinded to the fact that he may be correct (which he was). A fact that nearly got her killed.

 

She needs to learn that she does not need to browbeat everyone into respect and obeyance. She just needs to do her best and work hard, then people will respect and obey her more.

[Ltsegarra]

Just to throw this in the discussion..don't forget Egwene was the only one Aes Sedai to be able to me Rand on "equal footing" and talk in his presences...the other Aes Sedai felt the incredible awe or whatever pressing down on them..sorta immoblizing them. Rand knew he was going to piss off Egwene going into the discussions...I think this move by Rand forces Egwene's hand unconsciously to gather the few threads that Rand himself can't see to directly namely the kinswoman, the wind finders, the Aiel and the ashaman.

Due to time Rand can no longer hold anyones hand, he needs to maximize his army effectively through his earliest companions namely Mat, Perrin, and yes Egwene. He's basically using her pride against her...since she "knows" best.

[babuada]

Egwene is like pre VoG Rand. Stubborn and unwilling to admit fault. Thats something she needs to get over, same as Rand needed to overcome it. The reason we as the readers sympathise with Rand in this regard is that he has good reason to be like that. the Aes Sedai put him in a damn box for gods sake. He did haave a right, although it wwent toooo far what with the weight of the world on his shoulders and all.

 

Egwene has the same problem, only without the reason. The only reason she treats Gawyn, Rand and any man disrespectfully is because she wants to be seen as the Amyrlin and all powerful. She thinks she controls the world. Plain and simple. She even admits it to Gaywn. She wants NOONE to see her admit defeat or conceed. She is Aes Sedai to the core. Now anyone but a diehard feminist who hates anything with the word "male" in it can see that the White Tower and Aes Sedai need an attitude check, their society does not work efficiantly. it is based on fear of the OP, thats all. They make 2 mistakes for every 1 victory.

 

The whole point of VoG and Nynaeve in ToM was to re-enforce the point that Rand and the Aes Sedai cannot do what they have been doing. They need to care. Re-read Nynaeve's testing, it says it all.

 

Egwene is your classic Aes Sedai. They have some good points. The main being channeling. And she is commited to fighting the shadow, anyone who says she isnt is a fool. Egwene is definitely one of the "good guys."

Completely agree to you. These pretend AS think only about power. We need chanelers like Nynaeve.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Egwene is like pre VoG Rand. Stubborn and unwilling to admit fault. Thats something she needs to get over, same as Rand needed to overcome it. The reason we as the readers sympathise with Rand in this regard is that he has good reason to be like that. the Aes Sedai put him in a damn box for gods sake. He did haave a right, although it wwent toooo far what with the weight of the world on his shoulders and all.

 

Egwene has the same problem, only without the reason. The only reason she treats Gawyn, Rand and any man disrespectfully is because she wants to be seen as the Amyrlin and all powerful. She thinks she controls the world. Plain and simple. She even admits it to Gaywn. She wants NOONE to see her admit defeat or conceed. She is Aes Sedai to the core. Now anyone but a diehard feminist who hates anything with the word "male" in it can see that the White Tower and Aes Sedai need an attitude check, their society does not work efficiantly. it is based on fear of the OP, thats all. They make 2 mistakes for every 1 victory.

 

The whole point of VoG and Nynaeve in ToM was to re-enforce the point that Rand and the Aes Sedai cannot do what they have been doing. They need to care. Re-read Nynaeve's testing, it says it all.

 

Egwene is your classic Aes Sedai. They have some good points. The main being channeling. And she is commited to fighting the shadow, anyone who says she isnt is a fool. Egwene is definitely one of the "good guys."

Completely agree to you. These pretend AS think only about power. We need chanelers like Nynaeve.

 

exactly, Nyneave and Rand (dare I say even Cadsuane) are the only 3 true Aes Sedai.

 

Just because the Forsaken are the "bad guys" it doesnt mean they arent right when they say the current "Aes Sedai" are a joke.

 

Dont get me wrong, they have managed 3000 years of turmoil, and they are by no means stupid nor evil. Its just that they are not as good as they think they are. Too cut off from the world. Egwene has the right idea when she wants to pool together ALL the channelers resources. Each can benifit from one another. Trying to force them under the White Tower's control is another matter, but the principle is good.

 

So yeah, Egwene is like any Aes Sedai, and its disappointing, because she could be so much more. However, i dont think she deserves the rabid hate some people have for her.

[babuada]

Just to throw this in the discussion..don't forget Egwene was the only one Aes Sedai to be able to me Rand on "equal footing" and talk in his presences...the other Aes Sedai felt the incredible awe or whatever pressing down on them..sorta immoblizing them. Rand knew he was going to piss off Egwene going into the discussions...I think this move by Rand forces Egwene's hand unconsciously to gather the few threads that Rand himself can't see to directly namely the kinswoman, the wind finders, the Aiel and the ashaman.

Due to time Rand can no longer hold anyones hand, he needs to maximize his army effectively through his earliest companions namely Mat, Perrin, and yes Egwene. He's basically using her pride against her...since she "knows" best.

Completely agree. And Rand was using his Taveren effect on her to completely lead her through this discussion. Remember the comment- "I didn't allow them other options":)

[Jaglover]

Why do the Windfinders or the Wise Ones need to work with her? Why do they need to be connected to the White Tower? This is part of her, and to a lesser extent the other Aes Sedai arrogance. She manipulates the Wise Ones, women she admittedly respects, and yet she manipulates them to get what she wants because she thinks she (and to a lesser extent the other Aes Sedai) knows best. This part of the book really bugged me. In ToM Egwene really has no redeeming qualities that I see, other than she bungled into killing one of the Forsaken, and she didn't even technically do that.

 

All female channelers are under dire threat from the Seanchen even if the last battle is won. It makes perfect sense to ally themselves and share all their knowledge and resources.

 

I disliked many of Egwenes personal actions in this book but can find little fault with the professional actions we see (I hope she is doing allot more to prepare for the last battle than is onscreen).

[Zagorac]

Amen Kahlika!!(evrything you've said so far) Babuada- Why is Rand so perfect?!! I beg of you explain this to me!? And just one more thing. When Egwene negotiated with Wise Ones and WindFinders she is hoping that the WT will take the lead. But NOT because they SHOULD take the lead but because she hopes that they are going to prove themselves the best. which is a completely different thing. Read carefully and you'll see I'm right

[dwn]

Egwene's meeting with Rand was quite public, and she asked for the Hall to convene in an hour to discuss the situation. Although it's never shown, it's highly likely Aes Sedai are devoting quite a bit of effort to the question of the seals.

 

Along those same lines, Egwene notes that the Seanchan almost definitely have travelling. It's certain that she has women working on how to defend against another attack, and a battle plan ready to repel one--likely a retooling of the one the SAS had ready to repel Sammael. A Seanchan attack will likely find itself facing about 100 full strength circles (~500 Aes Sedai and ~1000 novices).

 

Like a few other things in ToM, much of the build up to FoM doesn't make much sense except as a means to build dramatic tension.

 

-- dwn

[Zentari]

Egwene's meeting with Rand was quite public, and she asked for the Hall to convene in an hour to discuss the situation. Although it's never shown, it's highly likely Aes Sedai are devoting quite a bit of effort to the question of the seals.

 

Along those same lines, Egwene notes that the Seanchan almost definitely have travelling. It's certain that she has women working on how to defend against another attack, and a battle plan ready to repel one--likely a retooling of the one the SAS had ready to repel Sammael. A Seanchan attack will likely find itself facing about 100 full strength circles (~500 Aes Sedai and ~1000 novices).

 

^Please direct me to the part where these things are given even a slight mention in the book. No , the "it's only sensible " reply does not count for confirmation.

[Hopefire]

exactly, Nyneave and Rand (dare I say even Cadsuane) are the only 3 true Aes Sedai.

 

In my opinion, you should add Moiraine and Veren to that list. As Rand put it, Moiraine cared. Veren's actions speak for themselves.

 

 

 

Egwene hatred is a bit much, Ill agree. Alot of it comes from things that the reader knows but she doesnt.

 

Heh. The point at which I really lost respect for Egwene as a person and came to love her as a character occurred in the Fires of Heaven. Egwene browbeats Nynaeve and asserts herself as Nynaeve's superior, after Nynaeve admits to having lied. Meanwhile, Egwene is sneaking around behind the Wise Ones and does no small amount of worrying that Nynaeve might potentially talk to the Wise Ones and inadvertently find out that Egwene's been up to a lot that she shouldn't. It wasn't a matter of Egwene making assumptions, or not having the full information - it was Egwene making sure others didn't have the full information so that she could come out ahead of her friend.

 

It was so two-faced and catty and human, it was brilliant.

[dwn]

Egwene's meeting with Rand was quite public, and she asked for the Hall to convene in an hour to discuss the situation. Although it's never shown, it's highly likely Aes Sedai are devoting quite a bit of effort to the question of the seals.

 

Along those same lines, Egwene notes that the Seanchan almost definitely have travelling. It's certain that she has women working on how to defend against another attack, and a battle plan ready to repel one--likely a retooling of the one the SAS had ready to repel Sammael. A Seanchan attack will likely find itself facing about 100 full strength circles (~500 Aes Sedai and ~1000 novices).

 

^Please direct me to the part where these things are given even a slight mention in the book. No , the "it's only sensible " reply does not count for confirmation.

 

The suggestive passages:

 

"We need to discuss his words. The Hall of the Tower will reconvene in one hour's time for discussion." That conversation would be Sealed to the Hall.

 

-- ToM, The Amyrlin's Anger, p. 85

 

"Though, it occurs to me that we'll have to move the room with the ter'angreal. And keep the location secret and constantly warded. It won't be long before every sister with sufficient power knows the weave for Traveling, and I wouldn't put it past many of them--including those I trust--to 'borrow' angreal now and again.

 

-- TGS, To Be Forged Again, p. 725

 

She hesitated. Chances were good that the Seanchan had Traveling now.

 

-- ToM, A Call to Stand, p. 427

 

"... If that weren't enough, we have another common foe--one who would see Aes Sedai, Windfinders and Wise Ones alike destroyed."

 

-- ToM, An Invitation, p. 563

 

 

These clearly suggest that Egwene, and those around her, are considering Rand's course of action and the Seanchan threat (and Traveling in general), even if we aren't actually shown anything specific.

 

-- dwn

[David Selig]

 

Heh. The point at which I really lost respect for Egwene as a person and came to love her as a character occurred in the Fires of Heaven. Egwene browbeats Nynaeve and asserts herself as Nynaeve's superior, after Nynaeve admits to having lied. Meanwhile, Egwene is sneaking around behind the Wise Ones and does no small amount of worrying that Nynaeve might potentially talk to the Wise Ones and inadvertently find out that Egwene's been up to a lot that she shouldn't. It wasn't a matter of Egwene making assumptions, or not having the full information - it was Egwene making sure others didn't have the full information so that she could come out ahead of her friend.

 

It was so two-faced and catty and human, it was brilliant.

Yeah, this is the point where I lost respect for her as a person too. Not only did she browbeat Nynaeve and enjoyed it immensely, but she summoned two brutes in TAR who physically assaulted Nynaeve, scared her out of her mind and left her with a few scars. All that so she can get the upper hand in their relationship and to cover for her own lie to Wise Ones. The height of hypocrisy was that she claimed she did it to teach Nynaeve about the dangers of TAR, yet at the same time she herself numerous times ignored all warning by her own teachers about the same dangers.

[anotherfingolfin]

Egwene's meeting with Rand was quite public, and she asked for the Hall to convene in an hour to discuss the situation. Although it's never shown, it's highly likely Aes Sedai are devoting quite a bit of effort to the question of the seals.

 

Along those same lines, Egwene notes that the Seanchan almost definitely have travelling. It's certain that she has women working on how to defend against another attack, and a battle plan ready to repel one--likely a retooling of the one the SAS had ready to repel Sammael. A Seanchan attack will likely find itself facing about 100 full strength circles (~500 Aes Sedai and ~1000 novices).

 

^Please direct me to the part where these things are given even a slight mention in the book. No , the "it's only sensible " reply does not count for confirmation.

 

The suggestive passages:

 

"We need to discuss his words. The Hall of the Tower will reconvene in one hour's time for discussion." That conversation would be Sealed to the Hall.

 

-- ToM, The Amyrlin's Anger, p. 85

 

"Though, it occurs to me that we'll have to move the room with the ter'angreal. And keep the location secret and constantly warded. It won't be long before every sister with sufficient power knows the weave for Traveling, and I wouldn't put it past many of them--including those I trust--to 'borrow' angreal now and again.

 

-- TGS, To Be Forged Again, p. 725

 

She hesitated. Chances were good that the Seanchan had Traveling now.

 

-- ToM, A Call to Stand, p. 427

 

"... If that weren't enough, we have another common foe--one who would see Aes Sedai, Windfinders and Wise Ones alike destroyed."

 

-- ToM, An Invitation, p. 563

 

 

These clearly suggest that Egwene, and those around her, are considering Rand's course of action and the Seanchan threat (and Traveling in general), even if we aren't actually shown anything specific.

 

-- dwn

 

i really don't think there has been anything substantial to indicate Egwene having given enough thought on a sensible counter plan, or anything to do with the seals. really, it's a real stretch, given what we have seen so far.

the seanchan question, however, is much, much more likely, and in all probability, something HAS been done in this regard.

[syon]

i guess i wil be repeating what already has been said, but still:

 

@Zagorac

 

Rand aint perfect (dont think anyone said that, nobody is), but along the books you can see what drove him to make his mistakes and you saw him change after reaching the "limit"... i like his character becouse you could see some reason for the way he acted, even on actions from TGS wich werent correct, we know how he reached the point of acting so erratically.

 

---//---

 

About egwene, on this arc she makes good decisions/proves she has what it takes to be a good armlyn... trying to get all channelers together, "finish" masena stop the "distrust" in the WT, and i like the way she does them. (shes the head of the AS "organization", even if its for the good of all of channelers... its normal that she would try to make them the head of the trio, thats the way it works in the real world.. ppl try to get the most benefict if possible). And yes, we dont know what they discussed on that meeting after the encounter of her+Rand.. it does make some sense not to think much happened since we dont have any indication about it later.

What bothers me are the way she acted on certain ocasions:

- with gawin

- the comments about nyevere, it seems that egwene thinks that Rand just cant be right about this... hes obviusly mad, and theres no other option than him being ta'veren for nyevere to "take his side"

- with perin, shes more experienced then others in TAR (like she said to elayne and nyevere) but still... i just cant understand that she tied him up right away, even if it was to protect him... cmon, the world doesnt turn around her... maybe theres a reason for him being there.

- about the situation of ashaman bonding aes sedai (not sure if its a valid point here, since it seems its a general thought and not just hers), they were sent there to do something bad about them (guess it was to atack them? kill them?).. but well, how could men even think on doing something against the aes sedai? should just have stayed there and get killed or gentled.

- and others wich i cant remenber at the moment/not sure enouth about them to post.. where she seems to believe that she just cant be wrong.

 

Well, characters arent suposed to be perfect.. she aint, like someone said in a previus post... i dont like her personality/way of thinking sometimes... but i like her as a character. Just dont like the fact that some ppl seem to think the only reason not to like egwene is becouse they like rand or becouse she disagrees with him.

 

sry about some typos (mostly with names) and some syntax problems... havent writen much in english for a long time.

cumps

[Elan Tedronai]

rand al thor browbeats ppl. yeah so what he's the dragon reborn. Egwene does the same, 'Oh my God, how dare she?! She's horrible peraon blah blah blah'

 

There is no doubt there is a correlation between al thor fanboys and egwene haters just by looking at the posters here.

[FossMaNo1]

She wonders why Gawyn disobeyed her? Of course he did. She was too busy trying to MAKE him obey her that she was blinded to the fact that he may be correct (which he was). A fact that nearly got her killed.

 

She needs to learn that she does not need to browbeat everyone into respect and obeyance. She just needs to do her best and work hard, then people will respect and obey her more.

 

I love the irony. To wield Saidar (the female half of the OP), the wielder must submit to it to master it. To wield Sadin (the male half of the OP), the wielder must grapple with it and assert control. Yet, in the end it is now Rand (male) who is submitting to the will of the Pattern in order to control it, while Egwene (female) is grappling with it and trying to assert control.

 

It would be interesting if the access method of Saidar and Saidin were reversed post-LB...

[Durinax]

rand al thor browbeats ppl. yeah so what he's the dragon reborn. Egwene does the same, 'Oh my God, how dare she?! She's horrible peraon blah blah blah'

 

There is no doubt there is a correlation between al thor fanboys and egwene haters just by looking at the posters here.

there is a correlation. As for the comparison between the two, rand is much more acceptable because we dont see him beating his friends down until they obey him no matter what. Whereas Egwene browbeats other people to cover her own behind so that she doesnt get busted. that is the main difference between why one it is accepted and why it isnt accepted from the other. Not to mention that rand does feel regretful that he has to use people in his efforts to get to the post season game. Egwene once again does not show any remorse that I can recall offhand about using people or pushing them to their limits in order to get what she wants (most glarign example is nyns AS test, which almost killed her by being much harsher than usual).

[Hopefire]

rand al thor browbeats ppl. yeah so what he's the dragon reborn. Egwene does the same, 'Oh my God, how dare she?! She's horrible peraon blah blah blah'

 

There is no doubt there is a correlation between al thor fanboys and egwene haters just by looking at the posters here.

there is a correlation. As for the comparison between the two, rand is much more acceptable because we dont see him beating his friends down until they obey him no matter what. Whereas Egwene browbeats other people to cover her own behind so that she doesnt get busted. that is the main difference between why one it is accepted and why it isnt accepted from the other. Not to mention that rand does feel regretful that he has to use people in his efforts to get to the post season game. Egwene once again does not show any remorse that I can recall offhand about using people or pushing them to their limits in order to get what she wants (most glarign example is nyns AS test, which almost killed her by being much harsher than usual).

 

Nynaeve: who has defeated a Forsaken one-on-one, who has healed severing, who has healed the madness of the Taint, who helped cleanse the male half of the One Power, who is one of the most valued councilors of the Dragon, needs to be tested. And she needs to be tested by a test that can and does kill people. And it's a test that Egwene will not take herself, as the rules say that she's already Aes Sedai by virtue of her position.

 

Nynaeve is already Aes Sedai by Egwene's decree; moreover, her actions speak for themselves. She didn't need to take the test.

 

 

Rand is a different case and different character than Egwene. Rand went evil, as much so as any of the Forsaken. To call him a sociopath as he was towards the Gathering Storm is to make his condition seem less dangerous for everyone involved than it actually was. Rand used the Dark One's own power, Rand used balefire on hundreds of innocent people to try to kill one of the Forsaken (and got one, but not the one he intended), he abandoned Bandar Eban, he put a person into a position to be taken by one of the Forsaken, he's horribly mismanaged the Black Tower, among other crimes and major errors. He's typically been rude, arrogant, threatening, his actions either motivated by anger if outside the Void or by callous expediency if inside the Void and too often inside or outside the Void he's been cruel. Also, he almost killed his father, and then almost destroyed the entire world. He has his own faults, and they're not Egwene's faults.

 

Egwene isn't evil. Her faults are far more petty. She's somewhat sexist, she's hypocritical, she doesn't look at the big picture, she's quick to make assumptions and slow to look for confirmation to see if her assumptions are actually grounded in reality, and she suffers from a lack of intellectual curiosity.

 

Rand has been cured of his major faults for the most part; for example, he's still lagging on trying to correct his mistakes regarding the Black Tower, and he really should visit Elayne; she deserves to see him, and he has no excuse for not visiting. He also hasn't contacted Perrin or Mat. For all that, his biggest characters flaws have been reset. Meanwhile, Egwene's flaws as a person became even more apparent in ToM. The upside is that both characters were great reading, though I'm glad I didn't have to sit through an entire series of ZenRand; it's a nice change of pace, but it's not interesting enough to hang a series on.

[randsc]

rand al thor browbeats ppl. yeah so what he's the dragon reborn. Egwene does the same, 'Oh my God, how dare she?! She's horrible peraon blah blah blah'

 

There is no doubt there is a correlation between al thor fanboys and egwene haters just by looking at the posters here.

 

 

That really is the best you can do, eh?

[DemandredFO]

I hope Nyneave unbinds herself in MoL because she stands against Egwene anyway. Even while Rand is turning into Darth Rand from LoC on, he still feels regret at what he feels he must do. As far as I can remember Egwene only expresses regret once and that for Emond's Field. She never regrets abusing Nyneave to cover her illegal entry into TAR. Egwene had potential, she has the training to be a real AS like Nyneave but she needs a massive slice of humble pie. She doesn't even have the bad excuse of a perceived immortality viewing for her bad behaviour. Nyneave is great, Elayne can become great, seems the head of the female servants of all is the only one who is failing the test. She is also derelict in preparing the AS for TG; fireballs, lightning and exploding stones aren't going to stop Dreadlords. Egwene needs to remove the oaths because Nyneave most likely would've been killed or captured by Moghedien in SR if she was oathbound then. No one barring Rand and Moraine(somehow) knows what the living Foresaken look like and they are all human. Maybe Rand can find a binder

[babuada]

rand al thor browbeats ppl. yeah so what he's the dragon reborn. Egwene does the same, 'Oh my God, how dare she?! She's horrible peraon blah blah blah'

 

There is no doubt there is a correlation between al thor fanboys and egwene haters just by looking at the posters here.

We are talking about Rand2.0 here. So, before you post I hope you read ToM and do a version upgrade LOL

[babuada]

Rand has been cured of his major faults for the most part; for example, he's still lagging on trying to correct his mistakes regarding the Black Tower, and he really should visit Elayne; she deserves to see him, and he has no excuse for not visiting. He also hasn't contacted Perrin or Mat. For all that, his biggest characters flaws have been reset. Meanwhile, Egwene's flaws as a person became even more apparent in ToM. The upside is that both characters were great reading, though I'm glad I didn't have to sit through an entire series of ZenRand; it's a nice change of pace, but it's not interesting enough to hang a series on.

In fact the path that changed him finally to Rand2.0 is the juice of this story. Without this it would have been fake. In his own words- "On the contrary. I am who I have become because of that pressure, Cadsuane. Metal cannot be shaped without the blows of the hammer"

[Darth Krewl]

She is also derelict in preparing the AS for TG; fireballs, lightning and exploding stones aren't going to stop Dreadlords.

 

Excellent point. The Seanchan attack on the White Tower made it quite clear that Aes Sedai are nowhere close to playing in the Majors, except for Nynaeve, Egwene herself and a few others, including Nynaeve, Moiraine, Cadsuane, Siuan and Elayne.

 

The rest were a bunch of bumbling idiots, incapable, not only to fight to save their own lives, but to organize themselves and handle a crisis with the kind of self-control and poise that you'd expect from the women with the faces that look like "masks of serenity".

 

At this point, Aes Sedai have been proven to be anything but ready to face any of the overwhelming challenges facing them (the imminent Seanchan attack on the tower and/or Tarmon Gai'don). So, I'm sure Egwene will be humbled, alright. It'll be either peacefully, at Rand's hands during their upcoming confrontation, or when the Seanchan attack the Tower. But either way, everything seems to indicate that she's headed for one very rude and humbling awakening.

 

Oh, and I was forgetting about the big lesson Perrin gave the girl in Tel'aran'rhiod, making her feel (and I quote her) "like a novice" all over again. So, not even Egwene's as ready to face the upcoming challenges as Nynaeve, for instance.

[Barid Bel Medar]

exactly, Nyneave and Rand (dare I say even Cadsuane) are the only 3 true Aes Sedai.

 

In my opinion, you should add Moiraine and Veren to that list. As Rand put it, Moiraine cared. Veren's actions speak for themselves.

 

 

God, I cant forget Moiraine, she is the ultimate

 

Verin was awesome with what she did, but she was still the new Aes Sedai to the core. She was as bad as all of the others in that regard, although as we now know, she actually had a reason, unlike the others.

 

 

As for Elan Tedronai, your posts are worthless. I dont mind some defence of Egwene, I do a bit myself, but seriously. "Your all Rand fanboys so shut up" is just silly. Come up with a vaild point before making comments.

 

Also, to the more resent posts, it is true, most here are talking about the new Jesus Rand. Everyone knows his faults, and Egwene is a pre-VoG Rand (albiet without the evil).

 

The point is, Rand has had his epiphany, he has overcome his shortcommings. Something Egwene refuses to do to date. And she doesnt THINK she needs to change. Rand had a reason. He was insane, he is the DR, saviour of the world, and everyone was trying to manipulate him (cue - Aes Sedai capture etc..) so his stubborness and browbeating was understandable, if as undesireable as Egwene's state. but she is sane.

 

I think what most are trying to say is that she needs a serious VoG epiphany, until then, she is seriously flawed. (And not to play the "fanboy" as so eloquently put, just as Rand was seriously flawed until VoG)