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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Darth Krewl

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  1. Favorite's TGH. One of the best sequels to an already excellent opening novel in TEotW. Worse by far, CoT, one of the worst books I've ever read in any series, genre, etc. Though I must say that TWoT feels like a true roller coaster ride to me: the first 6 books were amazing, then books 7-10 were quite forgettable, but fortunately the series picked up speed after KoD and closed with a satisfying –albeit not memorable– finale in AMoL.
  2. Saddest moment for me was seeing Cadsuane, not only survive, but succeed Egwene as Amyrlin. Despite her lofty status as a "legend", the woman was totally useless when the heat was finally turned on. She couldn't even defeat Graendal with Amys and Aviendha's aid. Had it not been for the courage of the latter, I'm sure Graendal would have had the old hag bending knee to her –or worse– in no time. Alas, no such luck. We're talking about a character here that not even the Dragon Reborn cared about, as he made her know all too well during their last conversation. And that's taking into consideration that Rand was very compassionate to all of the people who followed him. IMO, it should've been Moiraine who became the next Amyrlin, w/o second thought.
  3. I understand how authors will develop their vision and defend or justify the reasons behind it, because it works for them. After all, the story is theirs and they have the right to tell it as they see fit. Just like it's the reader's right to decide whether you like their work or not. That said, this doesn't mean readers have to agree or go along with the author's justification/explanation, even when provided, only because the author has his/her reasons. The important thing is if those reasons work or not for each reader. In this case...well, let's face it. After 13 books, the ineptness of the Forsaken is reaching laughable, cartoon-like levels, reminiscent of Wiley Coyote's failed efforts to catch the Road Runner. In other words, I just don't see any good reason to justify the Forsaken's ineptness. Could be there is one valid justification out there, but I seriously doubt it.
  4. This and this. Except that for me, books 1-6 were excellent and then, the series went downhill till TGS, perhaps. Also, the ASoIaF bloodbath part lol. I love that series, precisely because of its unpredictability. You never know who just might bite the dust when you turn the page. Oh, and the Aes Sedai of the Third Age. How the Forsaken haven't been able to wipe out these bickering, useless, primitive, ignorant, arrogant, obnoxious hags is beyond me...except that the Forsaken haven't proven to be the best villains in the history of fantasy either, of course. So, I guess I'll add the incredible lameness of the bad guys to this list.
  5. Not true. Not by a long shot. There's plenty of stories where the bad guys do win. Aside from the ones already mentioned here, I would add "Brave New World" and I'd dare say that in "A Song of Ice and Fire"... Then again, that's why currently, George R.R. Martin's is the best fantasy series out there by far and wide. At least, IMO. Concerning TWoT...well, I think the series is a bit on the juvenile side. I mean, let's face it, RJ was an outstanding writer (and Sanderson's no slouch himself, though I prefer his own books over his 2 TWoT efforts; the Mistborn Trilogy, especially), but the series is filled with just about any cliché you'll ever find in fantasy. That said, I think RJ was able to make excellent use of all of these all-too-clichéd motifs and elements. I do admit that the series doesn't really offer much in the way of "grayness", shocking, unexpected developments, nor does it present the best villains out there. After 13 books, we're still waiting to see the death of one major "good guy". Nuff said, me thinks. I really like these books and will continue collecting them till the story's done (though, IMO, they're only good for one read each) but, I certainly don't consider them the "be all, end all" of all things fantasy. Let alone, the standard in the genre. To me, TWoT is just good, clean fun to read whilst I wait for superior works (such as Martin's ASOIAF or Joe Abercrombie's, for instance) to fall into my lap.
  6. Yes, at least 3/4 of the story in ADwD runs parallel with AFfC and yes, most plot lines end up in cliffhangers that many didn't find to satisfying, but the book still presents some major events and surprises for the reader that I never found in CoT or in most of books 7-11 in the WoT series for that matter. I don't find the timeline in TWoT screwy, but I do admit that those 4 books mentioned above are a detour from the first 6 books and not the best books in the series; especially CoT, which seems to be the low point (for the majority, at least) in an otherwise excellent fantasy series. I would say that's not true for ADwD (in that case, I would say that dubious honor should go to AFfC). IMO, ADwD is not only vastly superior to CoT; it's much better than any TWoT book between LoC and TGS.
  7. Every single Aes Sedai of the Third Age, except for Moiraine (and only from the middle of TSR on), and led by Cadsuane.
  8. Exactly. I was introduced to TWoT by a friend in late '08, so I didn't have to wait for any volumes, other than the last 2 books. And while I loved books 1-6, I didn't hate books 7-11, but I didn't like the direction Jordan decided to take at that point. I didn't like it one bit, in fact. I had decided to give up the series midway through KoD, shortly before TGS was released in fact, but my friend insisted that I read it, claiming that the series had picked up the pace. Since I trust this guy's criteria and he knew about the issues I had with the previous 4 books, I decided to finish KoD and move on to TGS, which was very good and then, ToM, which I thought was excellent. But, as a whole, I'd have to say that 1: the series did drop off significantly right after that amazing battle at Dumai's Wells and 2: CoT is the weakest link in the chain, IMO.
  9. Yes, that's a valid interpretation, even if I strongly disagree with it. It would seem like most of Cadsuane's apologists always use the "granny approach" excuse to justify the woman's insufferable nature. But, fact of the matter is that, not only is she completely unrelated to Rand, but he didn't even want her around at all in the first place. The only reason he put up with her was because of Min's viewing. Putting up with one's granny is one thing. Putting up with a meddlesome, arrogant and bossy/bitchy stranger is a completely different animal altogether. Rand is no mere 21 yr. old and he's made that clear to the old hag not once, but twice already. His physical age became irrelevant when he unlocked all of the memories from his past life and integrated them. That makes him far superior to every single Light Side channeler by a landslide, which is why he took exception to the old hag calling him "boy" (and treating him as such) all the time and understandably so. Therefore, Cadsuane's line proves her obstinacy and arrogance, as she clearly can't bring herself to admitting that she's ages behind this "21 yr. old runt". Sad but true for her, unfortunately. Protecting him? Now that is something Cadsuane took upon herself, as no one named her protector to the Dragon Reborn. Just one of countless attributions that this woman has taken upon herself w/o having anyone assign her to it. One only has to look at the way Moiraine ended up realizing that her arrogance and self-conceit had done far more harm than good, to know that Cadsuane's every single move has hindered far more than helped her with Rand, as she has made every single mistake Moiraine did and has even come up with a few new blunders of her own. Affection for him? Affection is demonstrated, perhaps not through words but feelings and thoughts, at least. And I've yet to read one single Cadsuane PoV where she acknowledges feeling any affection for al'Thor even vaguely. So, I'd say that's open to personal interpretation and again, I strongly disagree. She's a stern teacher, alright. And a meddlesome one, as well, since Rand never took her as his mentor/teacher, the way Perrin did with Hopper, Frodo with Gandalf or Luke with Yoda and Kenobi. Again, all Rand did was accept to let the woman hang around him because of Min's viewing. And the girl's literal words were that he had "something important" to learn from Cadsuane, not that she was going to teach him anymore than that. For as Moiraine would say, a female channeler couldn't teach a male anymore than a bird can teach a fish how to swim or a fish teach a bird how to fly. Cadsuane may be thinking about Rand and feeling proud of him, granted. Alas, that is also a selfish feeling because, again, she imposed herself on Rand as teacher and mentor. He never wanted her there in the first place, so if she feels any pride, that is due to seeing her obstinate insistence paying off...for her.
  10. Agreed. But in this case, since Aes Sedai are not public officials, then I would say that the comparison between them and judges, cops, etc. is quite inaccurate. Well, IDK if I'm an idiot or not hah hah! But I do know that we can only agree to disagree, concerning the respect Aes Sedai may/may not deserve, indeed. Well, like I said in the quote I've highlighted in bold above, Aes Sedai may not use their powers to inflict damage on others, but then again, they don't really go out of their way to discourage anyone from believing that, do they now? Not to mention that they can always use their Warders as another way to, again, circumvent their oaths. Just like Joline tried to do with Mat. And I don't suggest anyone is stupid, but in a world where only a few can read and write, I believe it's pretty safe to assume just how ignorant the majority of the population would be. Hence, I seriously doubt that most Westlanders would even know the three oaths taken by Aes Sedai. I believe that saying, "the truth an Aes Sedai tells you isn't often the truth you will hear" (paraphrasing) applies perfectly well in this case. The fault for this falls exclusively on the shoulders of the Aes Sedai, as they haven't done anything to improve on their public image as perceived by the majority. And I'm not even referring to Elaida (I rarely discuss her, because I know how people tend to use her as a cop out to defend ;-)). I'm talking about the way the majority of the Emond's Fielders felt about Moiraine, since that was the way most of us were introduced to this bunch of wannabe Aes Sedai of the Third Age. Just for the record, I never said Mat was afraid of any Aes Sedai, as the quote above clearly proves. I only said that his attitude changed when he got the fox medallion because no Aes Sedai could bully him into doing their bidding. Excuse me, but those 2 old sisters Adeleas and the other one (can't remember her name) spent a good amount of time hurling things at Mat with the Power, just to see why he wasn't affected by it. If the poor kid had taken it off once, chances are one of those two old hags would've cracked his skull open with a stone or something. Now, that is a radical change in attitude, because they went from an assuming posture (thinking that their precious power could work on anyone) to becoming curious about their abilities not working with the Cauthon kid. And Mat was more than glad to let them try and fail time and again. That also constitutes a major change in attitude and behavior. So, I guess this is subject to perception and understanding of what does constitute major or radical changes in attitude and behavior. First, you say I'm not an idiot and then, you try to treat me like one? lol! First off, I've never discussed Mat's actions in that particular thread, because I was discussing or debating Aes Sedai actions. But, if you want to know my opinion about that then sure, Mat was abusive as well. Though, he hadn't gone seeking for those women to ask for their help and they were certainly not defenseless, since their Warders were there with them. Completely different scenarios, IMO, that don't even deserve being mentioned in the same sentence together. With all due respect, this has got nothing to do with the subject at hand, which is if Aes Sedai deserve respect or not. I've never said that Aes Sedai don't have the right to use every mean at their disposal to defend themselves (the way we all do) and I have never assumed anything, because I'm all about facts, not speculation. So, I'm not even gonna bother going there. IMO, this thread has already been derailed enough as it is (we should keep in mind that it's about Egwene, not the Aes Sedai as a whole). Only for certain specific purposes. As Morgase's adviser, for instance, Elaida couldn't dispatch justice in Andor. That was the Queen's duty, regardless on how much her AS adviser may/may not influence her behind closed doors. Far as state and social affairs are concerned, not even a "good queen's man" such as that good old farmer, Almen Bunt, would suffer Aes Sedai intervention in their country. Aes Sedai may be seen under a better light in Andor or Shienar, for instance, but I assure you that the people would go up in arms in any nation in the Westlands, if Tar Valon overextended the duties granted to them by the rulers. Hence, Tower Law does not apply outside its jurisdiction, except for Tower business and special concessions. Are you talking about modern day Vatican? Or, about medieval times Vatican? Because that's where Jordan drew his inspiration from; ancient, not recent history and back then, the Vatican had its nose down everyone's throats in Europe. As for Tower Law applying, again, either you're thinking me an idiot or we're not communicating clearly. Either way, I'm a practical person, Kahlika. I'm not trying to dissect every single move made by an Aes Sedai that may or may not constitute an actual breach. I've just been saying all along that Aes Sedai are not public servants of any kind in their continent and, if they were, they'd be terrible at it, simply because all they do, they do it with the best interests of the White Tower at heart and not those of the people. That's precisely the reason why nobody likes to see AS interfere with the affairs of their country; because they never do what is best for the people...unless it also is in the best interests of the Tower. Seems pretty clear to me, actually.
  11. The quote above, which I found on another post, clearly indicates just what an intolerable selfish and arrogant ass this woman is. Rand will always be a foolish boy, despite the fact that he's way ahead of Cadsuane in every possible way now? If he were half the "foolish boy" that she makes him out to be, Rand wouldn't have been able, not only to survive but to succeed, for so long. This comment clearly indicates that the woman's extremely jealous of Rand because his mere presence means she's not the top honcho anymore. There's someone much more powerful, knowledgeable and experience around and her ego (as in selfish pride) simply cannot bear it. The second part I've highlighted in bold clearly demonstrates that, while Cadsuane is extremely overconfident and has made one of the biggest mistakes in the series (letting Semirhage escape and get the male Domination Band on her watch) her swollen ego totally blinds and renders her incapable of seeing her own mistakes. She's throwing rocks when living in a glass skyscraper. Her pride over Rand is not based on the guy's accomplishments, but on the fact that the old hag actually feels proud to see how her self-appointed task to "lead" and "guide" the "foolish boy" (as if she had really done anything big in this sense) seems to have worked. Cadsuane's not a little prideful and is not just a bit arrogant. Pride is one of the biggest traits of ego and everything that derives from ego is selfish. Hence the synonym "egotistical" and Cadsuane's extremely self-centered and ego-based, hence egotistical and arrogant to the extreme.
  12. First of all, to discuss this properly, we'd have to establish the social and cultural ideological differences between countries. Because I'm certain we're not from the same country (I don't even think we share the same native tongue) and the perception of certain public officials who deserve "respect" in your homeland may not be the same as those which apply to my country. This varies from place to place, just like "respect" for the Aes Sedai is not the same in Andor as it is in Amadicia, for instance, not to mention the Seanchan continent, of course. In this sense, it's clear that what Aes Sedai inspire in the people of their continent is not respect, but fear of their special powers. And they are more than happy to circumvent their oaths in order to make people suspect that, should they not do as Aes Sedai demand, they could use their occult abilities to get either retribution or what they wanted all along. Abuse of power is abuse of power everywhere. And, while it may inspire awe, that doesn't equate to respect but rather, fear, as I said before. Just look at Mat and his radical change in attitude and behavior when he found out that his medallion made him safe from typical Aes Sedai bullying and how frustrated that made, well, basically every single damn Aes Sedai that was around him after that. That's exactly how everyone would behave around Aes Sedai if, like Mat, they were certain that these women couldn't do anything against them. That's pretty obvious in the books. And lastly, Aes Sedai are not public officials lol! Hence, they wouldn't even deserve the respect any judge, cop, doctor, so on and so forth would. The comparison in itself is completely inappropriate. Tower Law doesn't apply to all the territories of the Westlands. That's an attribution that the Aes Sedai of the Third Age have just taken for granted in very arbitrary fashion. Tar Valon is no public institution by any means, but an actual independent, sovereign and autonomous state similar to the Vatican (especially in medieval times, precisely, as Jordan himself said that he used convents and such as inspiration for the Tower's laws, ways and traditions). Therefore, the White Tower has no power over any other independent, sovereign and autonomous state, unless granted to them for certain purposes, such as in Andor, for instance. And even there, Elaida's role as adviser and councilor to Queen Morgase was limited to certain parameters. It's very simple to establish where the White Tower's jurisdiction starts and where it ends. Unless, you wish to take back your claim on Aes Sedai being "public servants", that is. Because if I can't hope to make my argument about jurisdiction stand, then the same principle applies to your argument about Aes Sedai being public servants. They certainly were such during the AoL, but not anymore.
  13. Where do you get that greed's the key to the A'dam working or not? Any female channeler who gets leashed is forced to do the Sul'dam's bidding or gets punished through the A'dam. Every single one of them, regardless of personality traits. Besides, the Dragon Reborn is prophesied to fight the Dark One, not to teach anyone anything and the key to the whole thing is balance through unity and belief. Greed has got nothing to do with anything.
  14. From an insider's PoV? Sure. I agree with everything you've said. But Borderlanders are not insiders. I'm sure they all must have heard rumor and hearsay of Rand's deeds (prophecies fulfilled) but again, the way communication tends to be all but missing in the Randland (and how infuriatingly stubborn everyone happens to be, even when told things straight to their faces), I don't see them knowing as much as insiders. Remember, the Seanchan didn't even believe Trollocs to be real, till that woman general of theirs ran into a Fistful of them in TGS. So IMO, it's easy to imply that the Borderland rules were not 100% aware of Rand's exploits and that they needed some kind of confirmation. Especially, since they had a rather obscure and minor Prophecy of their own that they needed to see fulfilled. Stupid? Sure. Stubborn? Clearly. Impractical? Absolutely. Again, communication is all but missing throughout this series: Elayne didn't know that Mat and Perrin were Ta'veren, also part of the Prophecies and that they were fulfilling them as much as Rand...and the girl has been around them far, far more than the Borderland rulers had ever been around Rand! Egwene still thinks that she has to get Rand under some kind of control, even after having lectured Elaida on how the Dragon had to be free to fulfill all the Prophecies...and she still opposes him, even after witnessing first-hand Rand's effect on those around him. Cadsuane still calls him a "child", even after personally witnessing some of Rand's most stunning feats and she still thinks she knows better than him, that she has to guide him into the Last Battle. And that's when the stupid hag doesn't even know the proper name (and arguably, the proper functioning at 100%) of all those little angreal devices she's been wearing on her head. She should know by now that Rand's experience and knowledge in general are clearly light years ahead of anything she might have learned in her time. After reading all of the above in the books, I'd say Randlanders in general --and not only Borderlanders-- are...Randlanders ;-) *Edit for spelling corrections.
  15. Yup, that's exactly what Rand's been planning to do. Good to see I'm not the only one who has seen this coming.
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