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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Darth Krewl

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  1. Favorite's TGH. One of the best sequels to an already excellent opening novel in TEotW. Worse by far, CoT, one of the worst books I've ever read in any series, genre, etc. Though I must say that TWoT feels like a true roller coaster ride to me: the first 6 books were amazing, then books 7-10 were quite forgettable, but fortunately the series picked up speed after KoD and closed with a satisfying –albeit not memorable– finale in AMoL.
  2. Saddest moment for me was seeing Cadsuane, not only survive, but succeed Egwene as Amyrlin. Despite her lofty status as a "legend", the woman was totally useless when the heat was finally turned on. She couldn't even defeat Graendal with Amys and Aviendha's aid. Had it not been for the courage of the latter, I'm sure Graendal would have had the old hag bending knee to her –or worse– in no time. Alas, no such luck. We're talking about a character here that not even the Dragon Reborn cared about, as he made her know all too well during their last conversation. And that's taking into consideration that Rand was very compassionate to all of the people who followed him. IMO, it should've been Moiraine who became the next Amyrlin, w/o second thought.
  3. Not trying to argue here. Since you're just starting to read ASoIaF, I was just trying to explain how the Night's Watch works. But then again, since you've already watched the HBO show, I guess you know that already. At any rate, I believe the prologue to AGot is a bit confusing because I also had trouble understanding who was who and what was going on during my first read. After reading the rest of the series (I've read all 5 books so far, now) and a reread, I understood that Royce IS being an ass, trying to impose his will on Will and Gared, not because he's a nobleman, but simply because he was the lead Ranger. Either way, IMO, the guy's an idiot on the book and the TV show, both lol. Yeah, for TV purposes (it's easier to film with older actors for a longer time, as they don't age as dramatically as young kids), HBO decided to add a few yrs. to Robert Baratheon's rebellion. Thus, every character's a good 4, 5 yrs. older in the show than in the book. Dany, for instance, looks a good 10 yrs. older than in the book lol. I understand how that makes it hard to keep in mind that Jon's that young, yep. He does a lot of growing as the books progress, though. IMO, he's a much better, deeper, all-around character than an Egwene al'Vere in TWoT for instance, based on the fact that both characters share similar story arcs. And we all know how generally disliked Egwene is, so I guess this holds true for Jon as well.
  4. AGoT is slow at the beginning. It takes a while getting to take off, true. But then again, TEotW feels like a ripoff of the TFotR for the first 200-300 pages. Even Jordan admitted having "borrowed" from Tolkien in order to generate more interest among fantasy readers. That's not a good thing either, because it also takes a while for the story to take off and have life of its own. Bottom line: you have to be patient when reading both these series. There is no argument between a nobleman and some soldiers. Waymar Royce is a former noble while Will and Gared are both lowborn men, yes. But they're all sworn brothers of the Night's Watch, thus the 3 are equals (at least on paper). Rank is what determines status and authority within the Night's Watch, not birth. Royce's noble origins have nothing to do with his interaction with Will and Gared. It's the fact that he's the 3 Ranger patrol's leader that comes into play there. Nothing wrong with finding Jon Snow annoying. Just keep in mind that he's a mere 14 yr. old boy, who happens to be in the very undesirable position of having been raised as a nobleman by his father (one of Westeros most powerful overlords) while always being limited by his condition as Ned Stark's bastard. In Westerosi society, that's a lose-lose proposition because a bastard can never aspire to the same things as a legitimate son, so Jon doesn't belong anywhere really, and he knows it. Taking that into consideration, the character's moody, whinny behavior is perfectly natural, IMO.
  5. Funny, because I have nothing against Mr. Jordan's magic system. Quite the contrary, in fact. I was hooked on the first 5, 6 books of his series, precisely because of how much I was enjoying the mysticism of his One Power/True Source. I thought it was very well planned out and executed. Unfortunately, it seems to me like all that promising stuff (such as the back story of the AoL, the mysteries behind the -angreal devices, the Dark One's power and reach, so on and so forth) took a back seat to stuff such as Faile's kidnapping, Egwene's rise to power and her eventual capture, Mat's whole ordeal with Tuon, Elayne's struggle for the throne, endless Aes Sedai bickering and conspiring and the worst (at least for me)...romances between secondary characters (Bryne-Siuan, Tallanvor-Morgase) that I couldn't give a hoot for. So, in a sense, it was precisely the fact that Jordan exchanged magic and wonder for political intrigue, cheap romance and basically trivial stuff, that turned me off. As for the relationships, well...since it is a fantasy universe, the characters will behave in accordance to the author's imagination, of course. In this case, you may be right: Jordan's characters may be perfect for their world. If that's the case, then I can respect that, but that doesn't mean I have to agree or go along with it...hehe...
  6. I agree wholeheartedly with this. Jordan's descriptions of characters' gestures, costumes, locations, epic battles, etc. is unparalleled, IMO. But his characters and interactions are extremely juvenile and, while it's ok at first (since the main characters were naive, innocent kids from a small town in the middle of nowhere, after all), the whole thing gets old after a while. I just didn't see any growth in characters such as Mat, Perrin, Egwene and Elayne. Only exception, IMO, would be Nynaeve...and not by much. I do believe that TWoT's impact is directly related to the age you were when you first started reading. In my case, I was already well into my 30's when a friend recommended the series 3 yrs. ago, so TWoT maybe just failed to make such a big impact on me because of this. As I was reading, the feeling I got was that I had already "been there, done that". Simply because I had read a lot for almost 30 yrs. and I do mean a lot lol. Had I picked up TEotW when it first came out (when I was in my late teens), I'm positive Jordan would've been able to make the impact that others who came before him had on me. Sorry to hear about your financial situation. I hope you can get your hands on ADwD asap, because it is worth it, believe me. Is it the best book in the series? Hmm...no, not really. But to me, it was a vast improvement over AFfC. Then again, that's because none of my fave characters (Jon, Tyrion, Dany) appeared on that book and there's plenty of them in ADwD. That's all I'm gonna say about it hehe... To me, there's 2 major struggles going on in the ASoIaF universe: humans vs. the Others, yes and also the continuous game for the Iron Throne. IMO, this is what makes ASoIaF such an interesting read. It's not your typical Hero's Quest/Journey, where this young man from a poor, small town has to topple this villainous dictatorship/empire, but a realistic conflict where you have honor vs. deviousness, love vs. greed, etc. and, while there's no clear line between good and bad, everyone has their own views on right and wrong. Just like in real life. Yes, my point was that it wouldn't be fair going into any of these 2 series comparing them. There's similarities, sure, but IMO, the main thing is that both are great reads and we're better off enjoying each on their own and for what they are.
  7. Well, to be frank, I don't like to compare both series because, even though they're both considered "epic fantasy" (and somehow, get thrown together too often) to me, ASoIaF and TWoT are as different as night and day. It's not about Martin being better than Jordan or vice-versa. Like I said before, I turned to ASoIaF because TWoT got to a point where didn't like the direction Jordan took after the first 5, 6 books. It was seeing characters that I liked (Moiraine, Lanfear, Thom, Loial, Logain) taking a back seat or disappear altogether, whilst characters I disliked greatly (Nynaeve, Egwene, Elayne, Cadsuane) took on much more prominent roles, that drove me away from what, to that point, had been one of the best series I had ever read. That, in addition to the whole plot diverging from Tarmon Gaidon (which I thought was supposed to be the whole point) and becoming an endless series of events involving third parties and cultures (such as Faile's kidnapping, Elayne's struggles for the Throne of Andor, the Seanchan invasion, etc.) that had no relevance to the main point. It was not the appearance of these situations/cultures/characters that bothered me. It was the way Fades, Trollocs, Tinkers and other parties, clearly established as important factors early on, took a backseat to them. I just didn't find these newcomers/new situation as interesting as the parties they replaced in those middle/late books. Curious. See, in my case, I'm not looking for the classic Hero's Journey, so I'm perfectly fine with ASoIaF not having such a character (though that's debatable, depending on what GRRM has planned for Jon and/or Dany). It was precisely the fact that no one is safe that lured me in, in part precisely because I never felt any sense of danger for any major character in TWoT. I have to care about characters in order to get into a story and I just didn't feel like I cared enough about Rand and co., simply because, as I was reading, I knew they will win. And to me, it's mind boggling to see how, after 14, 800-1000 page books, no major character has died. Very predictable and unappealing for my taste. I guess this depends entirely on personal preference and what you may be in the mood for as a reader. If you're looking for a more classic approach on High Fantasy or Sword and Sorcery, then I guess it's safe to say that TWoT is as good as it comes. It's just that TWoT became too juvenile and predictable for me. As for characters to latch on to in ASoIaF, well again, I'd say that's a matter of personal taste. I respect your opinion of course, but in this case, Robb wasn't even a POV character and I never really got into him. But, I'd say there's plenty of interesting characters who are still around (Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Arya, Bran, Jaime) to keep most readers happy. Again, I was neither comparing the 2 series nor calling one better than the other (that's a matter of personal taste. Both have their qualities and flaws, of course. ASoIaF just happens to be more appealing to me, perhaps because of my age, the life I've lived or simply my taste). In short, I gave both these series the same, fair chance. And, while I loved them both at the beginning, as I kept on reading, while ASoIaF kept going in a direction I liked, TWoT went completely the opposite way. Doesn't have anything to do with Jordan or Martin's quality, imagination, prose, etc. It's just a matter of personal preference. All I was saying was that the best way to approach these books is by not comparing and just enjoying them for the very different and excellent kind of entertainment that each provides. Else, I believe the experience won't be as good as it can be. EDIT: to correct spelling.
  8. Hey there, My case is completely different to yours. Though I started reading TWoT long before I found ASoIaF, I started reading the latter precisely because I didn't like the direction Jordan had taken with his work, after book 6 or 7 in TWoT, and I decided to look elsewhere to fill my "reading gap". This wasn't because of comparisons between the 2 series. It's just the fact that ASoIaF was more in line with my personal preferences. I simply prefer Martin's story, situations and characters, (the latter above all) much more than Jordan's. Maybe it's because I started reading both series when I was already well into my 30's and I had no preconceptions either way. Besides, maybe because of my age at the time I started reading both series, I found Martin's grittier, much more realistic story, world and characters much more pleasing than Jordan's. At any rate, I think one can enjoy both series, just as long as you keep comparisons between the 2 at bay. To me, these 2 are just as different as...well, as fire and ice and I think that'd be doing a disservice to 2 outstanding writers, both of whom have created amazing stories and worlds.
  9. I understand how authors will develop their vision and defend or justify the reasons behind it, because it works for them. After all, the story is theirs and they have the right to tell it as they see fit. Just like it's the reader's right to decide whether you like their work or not. That said, this doesn't mean readers have to agree or go along with the author's justification/explanation, even when provided, only because the author has his/her reasons. The important thing is if those reasons work or not for each reader. In this case...well, let's face it. After 13 books, the ineptness of the Forsaken is reaching laughable, cartoon-like levels, reminiscent of Wiley Coyote's failed efforts to catch the Road Runner. In other words, I just don't see any good reason to justify the Forsaken's ineptness. Could be there is one valid justification out there, but I seriously doubt it.
  10. This and this. Except that for me, books 1-6 were excellent and then, the series went downhill till TGS, perhaps. Also, the ASoIaF bloodbath part lol. I love that series, precisely because of its unpredictability. You never know who just might bite the dust when you turn the page. Oh, and the Aes Sedai of the Third Age. How the Forsaken haven't been able to wipe out these bickering, useless, primitive, ignorant, arrogant, obnoxious hags is beyond me...except that the Forsaken haven't proven to be the best villains in the history of fantasy either, of course. So, I guess I'll add the incredible lameness of the bad guys to this list.
  11. Not true. Not by a long shot. There's plenty of stories where the bad guys do win. Aside from the ones already mentioned here, I would add "Brave New World" and I'd dare say that in "A Song of Ice and Fire"... Then again, that's why currently, George R.R. Martin's is the best fantasy series out there by far and wide. At least, IMO. Concerning TWoT...well, I think the series is a bit on the juvenile side. I mean, let's face it, RJ was an outstanding writer (and Sanderson's no slouch himself, though I prefer his own books over his 2 TWoT efforts; the Mistborn Trilogy, especially), but the series is filled with just about any cliché you'll ever find in fantasy. That said, I think RJ was able to make excellent use of all of these all-too-clichéd motifs and elements. I do admit that the series doesn't really offer much in the way of "grayness", shocking, unexpected developments, nor does it present the best villains out there. After 13 books, we're still waiting to see the death of one major "good guy". Nuff said, me thinks. I really like these books and will continue collecting them till the story's done (though, IMO, they're only good for one read each) but, I certainly don't consider them the "be all, end all" of all things fantasy. Let alone, the standard in the genre. To me, TWoT is just good, clean fun to read whilst I wait for superior works (such as Martin's ASOIAF or Joe Abercrombie's, for instance) to fall into my lap.
  12. Yes, at least 3/4 of the story in ADwD runs parallel with AFfC and yes, most plot lines end up in cliffhangers that many didn't find to satisfying, but the book still presents some major events and surprises for the reader that I never found in CoT or in most of books 7-11 in the WoT series for that matter. I don't find the timeline in TWoT screwy, but I do admit that those 4 books mentioned above are a detour from the first 6 books and not the best books in the series; especially CoT, which seems to be the low point (for the majority, at least) in an otherwise excellent fantasy series. I would say that's not true for ADwD (in that case, I would say that dubious honor should go to AFfC). IMO, ADwD is not only vastly superior to CoT; it's much better than any TWoT book between LoC and TGS.
  13. Every single Aes Sedai of the Third Age, except for Moiraine (and only from the middle of TSR on), and led by Cadsuane.
  14. Just finished reading A Dance with Dragons and I'm currently doing a reread of the A Song of Ice and Fire series. I just realized I had forgotten lots of stuff while reading the latest installment.
  15. 1. Neo Anderson, The Matrix (ringbearer) 2. Yoda, Star Wars 3. Gandalf, TLotR 4. Aragorn aka Strider aka King Elessar, TLotR 5. Obi-Wan Kenobi, SW 6. Barristan Selmy, ASoIaF 7. Jon Snow, ASoIaF 8. Batman (he qualifies, I hope) 9. Chewbacca, SW 10.Lan Mandragoran, TWoT I'd never take Rand al'Thor on this quest (I can hear Lews Therin's voice telling him, "they wantsss it, preciousss! We mussst kill them all, my preciousss, my luv!).
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