Chapter 1 "Apples First"

[Random Man]

Rand is now completely in-sync (I hope) with his purpose and his role as ta'veren, so his ability to fix what the DO has screwed up in the Pattern is no longer being "blocked" by his darkness. Simply put, Rand is now fully functioning as a ta'veren for the Pattern to use as it desires because he A) No longer has the taint effecting him and B) No longer has his other issues (making him Dark Rand) effecting him (I assume).

 

I guess my point was that the apple-miracle doesn't really fit the mode of ta'veren. The ta'veren effect doesn't cause things to happen that NEVER happen, it just causes extremely unlikely (but still possible) things to happen. An apple tree blossoming twice in the same year simply does not happen (except with some rare breeds, which is why I brought up the Carolina Red Junes, but these trees are clearly not that species). Almen Bunt thought to himself, "Apple trees didn’t blossom twice," not "Apple trees almost never blossom twice." So if this is ta'veren, its a form we've not seen before, and it would need a new type of explanation. Jordan did explicitly say that ta'veren is not Old Tongue for Deus Ex Machina ... and its use has been sort of creeping in that direction, which I don't like. Assigning this miracle to ta'veren influence would step right over that line, in my opinion.

I'm sure you're right, though, that some form of clarification will be forthcoming. I just hope its a good one. It will probably be in relation to the "light-warping" around Rand, as opposed to the "dark-warping" we saw in TGS, rather than ta'veren though, in my opinion. And something in relation to time-space ... thats got to be coming, too much of what is happening seems to be related to the flow of time.

 

(As a side note ... Rand seems totally in-sync with the Pattern now, but, given the comments in the reviews I've read, that doesn't seem likely to last, at least, not without getting really complicated. Which is good ... as cruel as it is to Rand, its too early for him to be settled ... there is at least a book and a half's worth of conflict left. What we may see ... and what would be really, really dangerous, is a Rand that swings back and forth from Dark Rand of the Shadowtwists to Saint Rand of the Glowylight, sort an ultra manic depressive ... now THAT could be bad.)

 

 

Thats a valid point. A ta'veren shouldn't be able to do something that could never happen.

One problem with that is that it actually could happen, and there's even an example of it happening. The Nym was able to make things grow instantly. It's the rapid acceleration of the particular chemical reactions that make up a process that already exists in nature. You don't have to step outside the Pattern. It's not molten steel coming out of a man's mouth or polar bears appearing on Mt. Kilamanjaro. Obviously there is some serious Pattern-manipulation going on with the Nym and the Eye of the World, but it wasn't exactly outside of it. But I do think there's more to it than the ta'veren effects we've already seen. I think it's the magnification of the Ta'veren influence on the Pattern as the Pattern becomes more and more unstable. In the end I think the three will literally be holding the Pattern together with only their threads.

[Slick Mongoose]

Presumably Rand knows the song, now he has access to past memories. Can it be sung without singing, as it were? Or replicated with the power?

[Elend]

Am I the only one that thinks Rand will be sealing the Bore by using the inherent thread twisting capabilities of ta'veren to redirect the pattern to completely seal it, as if it never were?

 

I mean, he seems to be developing conscious control over it. I think that we may be seeing this now. Perhaps he'll need to die to manipulate on such a large scale. But I kinda like the idea.

[Tom Sawyer]

Am I the only one that thinks Rand will be sealing the Bore by using the inherent thread twisting capabilities of ta'veren to redirect the pattern to completely seal it, as if it never were?

 

I mean, he seems to be developing conscious control over it. I think that we may be seeing this now. Perhaps he'll need to die to manipulate on such a large scale. But I kinda like the idea.

 

I think so too. As LTT said when Rand was asking him about sealing the Bore, "We had to touch him with something" and since that something was saidin, the DO was able to taint it. RJ has said that if the female Aes Sedai had joined in, saidar would have been tainted as well, so it can't be that. I'd thought it would be the TP, but using the DO's power to seal the DO in doesn't make a lot of sense and goes against the plotline of how evil the TP is.

 

The "three becoming one" thing could easily be the three ta'veren coming together and warping the fabric of the Pattern to seal the DO out of it and have it continue without him being part of it (until the next time some dumb girl comes along and bores into his prison).

[Lisa Campbell]

Am I the only one that thinks Rand will be sealing the Bore by using the inherent thread twisting capabilities of ta'veren to redirect the pattern to completely seal it, as if it never were?

 

I mean, he seems to be developing conscious control over it. I think that we may be seeing this now. Perhaps he'll need to die to manipulate on such a large scale. But I kinda like the idea.

 

 

I've written before about sealing the bore before and how I don't think it will be another patch this time round. Rand has to break the seals and create the prison anew according to Herid Fel and Min has discovered that through Fel's extensive library. Also she had a viewing about it. The original prison that Mierin drilled into was at the Collum Daan. It was a sphere hovering above a lake and Shayol Ghul sounds more like the inside of a volcano to me. Except for the water, that sounds a lot like the imagery when Rand was cleansing Saidin at Shadar Logoth. Which is why I think the new prison will be there. Rand has already sealed away the taint there, which you could argue is another manifestation of the DO in a way, and Shadar Haran could be too. I still think that in order to step into the pattern, the DO will need a body. There is foreshadowing of this when the DO possesses Ishamael to drive the Fades and Trollocs into Shadar Logoth as if "it was HIM".

 

Not sure about the taveren powers increasing as I think that's just too weird. I think this is some new power (sort of the opposite to SH's dark powers). I think it far more likely that the Creator is taking a direct hand now because of Rand's epiphany and zen mood, maybe starting to inhabit Rand's body or has forged a spiritual link or whatever. Sure this power could wax and wane according to Rand's moods as has been speculated. After all, who else but the Creator could imprison the DO?

 

(on another vein: if my quote thing above doesn't work can someone tell me how to do that. Stupid question I know but I'm new and clicked the button then copied and pasted)

[mossman87]

Am I the only one that thinks Rand will be sealing the Bore by using the inherent thread twisting capabilities of ta'veren to redirect the pattern to completely seal it, as if it never were?

 

I mean, he seems to be developing conscious control over it. I think that we may be seeing this now. Perhaps he'll need to die to manipulate on such a large scale. But I kinda like the idea.

 

 

I've written before about sealing the bore before and how I don't think it will be another patch this time round. Rand has to break the seals and create the prison anew according to Herid Fel and Min has discovered that through Fel's extensive library. Also she had a viewing about it. The original prison that Mierin drilled into was at the Collum Daan. It was a sphere hovering above a lake and Shayol Ghul sounds more like the inside of a volcano to me. Except for the water, that sounds a lot like the imagery when Rand was cleansing Saidin at Shadar Logoth. Which is why I think the new prison will be there. Rand has already sealed away the taint there, which you could argue is another manifestation of the DO in a way, and Shadar Haran could be too. I still think that in order to step into the pattern, the DO will need a body. There is foreshadowing of this when the DO possesses Ishamael to drive the Fades and Trollocs into Shadar Logoth as if "it was HIM".

 

Not sure about the taveren powers increasing as I think that's just too weird. I think this is some new power (sort of the opposite to SH's dark powers). I think it far more likely that the Creator is taking a direct hand now because of Rand's epiphany and zen mood, maybe starting to inhabit Rand's body or has forged a spiritual link or whatever. Sure this power could wax and wane according to Rand's moods as has been speculated. After all, who else but the Creator could imprison the DO?

 

(on another vein: if my quote thing above doesn't work can someone tell me how to do that. Stupid question I know but I'm new and clicked the button then copied and pasted)

 

 

The Pattern was thinnest where they drilled into it. The Prison, or wherever the DO is, is everywhere at the same time if that makes sense. The Collum Daan has nothing to do with anything except it was at the location where the Pattern was thinnest to be able to feel a new source of Power. Now we don't know WHY it was thinnest there, but theoretically you could have drilled through the Pattern anywhere it was thin and reached the True Power (DO). The next Second Age the Bore might be drilled in a whole different location for example. I can dig up quotes if you'd like.

 

Grabbed this one just for completeness-sake, or something.

 

Week 8 Question: When a person that can channel is shielded, where is the shield placed? Is it placed around the whole body of the person or around the head of the channeler where they sense saidin/saidar? If you are shielded from the One Power, are you also shielded from the True Power? What happens if someone in a circle is shielded? Can a Warder feel that his Aes Sedai is shielded?

Robert Jordan Answers: A shield exists both as a barrier around the entire person and as a single point along with everything in between. . (In a way, this is like the Bore, which does not actually exist as Shayol Ghul. The Bore exists everywhere, but Shayol Ghul is the place where it can best be detected. Which is not to say that there is any connection between the Bore and a shield. Both simply exist in different states simultaneously.) Someone who is shielded and trying to get past the shield can "feel" their way along its inner "surface" hunting for weaknesses, such as the points that indicate where the shield is being maintained or has been tied off. Shielding against the One Power will indeed stop someone from reaching for the True Power. It isn't possible to shield one person out of a circle since, in effect, the circle has become a single person for the purpose of channeling. You would have to shield the entire circle, which would require either a circle of your own or a pretty hefty sa'angreal. A Warder cannot feel that his Aes Sedai has been shielded, though he would be aware of any agitation on her part. But this would tell him no more than that she was agitated.

 

 

Really it sounds more like the DO isn't in a prison as much as he's kept outside of the Pattern, or Patterns if there's multiple. But that's just me speculating.

 

Edit: I guess what I'm getting at is the Pattern needs to be stronger "all-over", not just at Shayol Ghul, and it needs the Order and Strength of the people to keep it strong. The Bore definitely needs sealed, but the whole Pattern needs Order brought back to it or the DO will just get in through other spots as it continues thinning from all the Chaos that's going around.

[Lisa Campbell]

True however I also think it was physically there. What about the rain of black fire when Mierin drilled into it. Seems pretty physical and IIRC people were running for their lives.

 

The prison itself could be some type of vacuole thing which would physically be there while holding the DO outside the pattern.

[shadow walker]

I am pretty sure he is going to set Egwene straight, in the regards that he will tell Egwene that they have to join the towers together but it will have to be done his way, she wont like it but the only other option he will give her is to let him and his armies and ashaman and aes sadai he currently has march alone to TG because she could not agree to his terms.

[Impressive Bosom]

Rand is now completely in-sync (I hope) with his purpose and his role as ta'veren, so his ability to fix what the DO has screwed up in the Pattern is no longer being "blocked" by his darkness. Simply put, Rand is now fully functioning as a ta'veren for the Pattern to use as it desires because he A) No longer has the taint effecting him and B) No longer has his other issues (making him Dark Rand) effecting him (I assume).

 

I guess my point was that the apple-miracle doesn't really fit the mode of ta'veren. The ta'veren effect doesn't cause things to happen that NEVER happen, it just causes extremely unlikely (but still possible) things to happen. An apple tree blossoming twice in the same year simply does not happen (except with some rare breeds, which is why I brought up the Carolina Red Junes, but these trees are clearly not that species). Almen Bunt thought to himself, "Apple trees didn’t blossom twice," not "Apple trees almost never blossom twice." So if this is ta'veren, its a form we've not seen before, and it would need a new type of explanation. Jordan did explicitly say that ta'veren is not Old Tongue for Deus Ex Machina ... and its use has been sort of creeping in that direction, which I don't like. Assigning this miracle to ta'veren influence would step right over that line, in my opinion.

I'm sure you're right, though, that some form of clarification will be forthcoming. I just hope its a good one. It will probably be in relation to the "light-warping" around Rand, as opposed to the "dark-warping" we saw in TGS, rather than ta'veren though, in my opinion. And something in relation to time-space ... thats got to be coming, too much of what is happening seems to be related to the flow of time.

 

(As a side note ... Rand seems totally in-sync with the Pattern now, but, given the comments in the reviews I've read, that doesn't seem likely to last, at least, not without getting really complicated. Which is good ... as cruel as it is to Rand, its too early for him to be settled ... there is at least a book and a half's worth of conflict left. What we may see ... and what would be really, really dangerous, is a Rand that swings back and forth from Dark Rand of the Shadowtwists to Saint Rand of the Glowylight, sort an ultra manic depressive ... now THAT could be bad.)

 

 

Thats a valid point. A ta'veren shouldn't be able to do something that could never happen.

Well, yes and no. Think about it this way - things that are utterly unnatural are already happening as a result of the DO's touch, whether its apples all shriveling up, rotting and falling at once, worms in the potatoes despite green growth above or thousands of insects suddenly pouring out of a man's body. Rand's purpose is to serve as a counter to the Dark One, so within that scope I would think he was capable of pretty much anything so long as it was a 'return to form' after the DO's touch had unnaturally corrupted it, even if that return to form is a rather extreme pendulum swing the other way to serve as a counter-balance (hundreds of apples instead of dozens).

 

However, this theory (and rand's own words in chapter 1) does seem to contradict the idea that the world (and specifically the food grown) was rotting as a result of some sickness within Rand's (The Dragon's) body or soul rather than as the direct result of a deliberate machination by the DO. Rand's comment that his presence should be able to hold off the effects of DO's touch certainly makes it appear as if the problem has been the DO all along rather than the Dragon's 'sickness'.

[Impressive Bosom]

The Pattern was thinnest where they drilled into it. The Prison, or wherever the DO is, is everywhere at the same time if that makes sense. The Collum Daan has nothing to do with anything except it was at the location where the Pattern was thinnest to be able to feel a new source of Power. Now we don't know WHY it was thinnest there, but theoretically you could have drilled through the Pattern anywhere it was thin and reached the True Power (DO). The next Second Age the Bore might be drilled in a whole different location for example. I can dig up quotes if you'd like.

 

My guess would be that the Patern was made weakest there as the Collum Daan was the place where the most magical research had been done, the more deliberate and calculated stretching, straining, warping and unraveling of the pattern had been done for a very long time.

[mossman87]

The Pattern was thinnest where they drilled into it. The Prison, or wherever the DO is, is everywhere at the same time if that makes sense. The Collum Daan has nothing to do with anything except it was at the location where the Pattern was thinnest to be able to feel a new source of Power. Now we don't know WHY it was thinnest there, but theoretically you could have drilled through the Pattern anywhere it was thin and reached the True Power (DO). The next Second Age the Bore might be drilled in a whole different location for example. I can dig up quotes if you'd like.

 

My guess would be that the Patern was made weakest there as the Collum Daan was the place where the most magical research had been done, the more deliberate and calculated stretching, straining, warping and unraveling of the pattern had been done for a very long time.

 

Yeah, that makes good sense. At first I was thinking since Shayol Ghul used to be this paradise getaway that the people in AOL started losing focus having no cause to rally against, stagnated, and let their creature comforts or whatever get the better of them there. Kind of like, "What happens in Vegas, Stays in Vegas." sex, drugs, and debauchery, but I like your idea better.

[Bastor]

Things Rand can say that could make Egwene angry. That they need to break the seals on the prison of the Darn One. That she needs to be more understanding of Gawyn.That he's going to marry 3 women .

 

I can't see Egwene the Amrylin being upset at any of those. Egwene from EotW might, but not Egwene the Amrylin.

 

Instead how about

Saidin has been cleansed and you must accept men into the white tower

You will accept a truce with the Seanchan

We must remove the three oaths from all Aes Sedai

Did you know Messana is your Mistress of Novices?

Are you seriously trying to tell me that you have the slightest idea of what might piss off a woman? An Aes Sedai?... Don't get cocky.

[TreeJoe]

There is substantial precedent for apples growing to not only fill the tree beyond what naturally occurs, but to grow in such a way that disease and insects don't bother them.

 

The precedent is when the Song was sung by man, Ogier, and Nym-dancing and their combined energies yielded a crop that resisted blight & disease & infestation. Similarly, when Ogier do Sung Wood they turn living trees into things like quarterstaffs and beds. This is not what would naturally occur through the Pattern, and is not done through channeling: these are individual affects on nature through their own inherent power.

 

That Rand has these powers now is cool in many ways, and not unprecedented. If the Dark One can twist the Pattern to create abominations (men turning into brimstone-smelling trees, spouting out molten rock, etc.), I see no reason that Rand, as the creator's champion, cannot exert rightness.

 

Also, remember the Nym's famous line, which is paraphrased here as, "All things must grow in their appointed time. But the Creator will not mind if I give a little help."....speaks alot to what is possible outside of the One Power.

 

....

 

P.s. I agree that the Bore itself is probably a hole in the Pattern, rather than a hole in a Prison, and that Rand, Mat, and Perrin are going to help re-forge the Pattern to wholeness. Also, love the idea that chaos thins the Pattern. That fits perfectly into two things:

 

1. The Dark One spreading Chaos

2. Herid Fel and the "belief and order give strength"

[NetSlider]

Things Rand can say that could make Egwene angry. That they need to break the seals on the prison of the Darn One. That she needs to be more understanding of Gawyn.That he's going to marry 3 women .

 

I can't see Egwene the Amrylin being upset at any of those. Egwene from EotW might, but not Egwene the Amrylin.

 

Instead how about

Saidin has been cleansed and you must accept men into the white tower

You will accept a truce with the Seanchan

We must remove the three oaths from all Aes Sedai

Did you know Messana is your Mistress of Novices?

Are you seriously trying to tell me that you have the slightest idea of what might piss off a woman? An Aes Sedai?... Don't get cocky.

 

LMAO

[Noreallyjustsomeguy]

The precedent is when the Song was sung by man, Ogier, and Nym-dancing and their combined energies yielded a crop that resisted blight & disease & infestation.

 

That's great and all, but Rand is not "man, Ogier, and Nym." If he gets the powers of all three combined somehow, I want more of an explanation than "I had a fuzzy moment atop Dragonmount" ...

 

Besides, the apple trees re-blossoming did not follow the pattern of the Green Man's growing assistance. When the Green Man helped, he just accelerated and purified natural processes. But when Rand did his thing, the apple trees themselves did not grow an extra year's growth, there is no description of shedding leaves and then new ones sprouting. (And the old apples on the ground did not disintegrate naturally, they "melted away, like wax before a flame.") Rand's effect seemed to make it as if the apples had never gone bad or fallen in the first place, as if the Dark One had never touched the place at all. It is as if Rand undid the Dark One's damage, rather than repairing it. That is quite different from the descriptions of food-growing in the Age of Legends.

 

If the Dark One can twist the Pattern to create abominations (men turning into brimstone-smelling trees, spouting out molten rock, etc.), I see no reason that Rand, as the creator's champion, cannot exert rightness.

 

Also, remember the Nym's famous line, which is paraphrased here as, "All things must grow in their appointed time. But the Creator will not mind if I give a little help."....speaks alot to what is possible outside of the One Power

 

Obviously it is possible. Rand did it. But I'm going to need more of an explanation that "he exerted righteousness." If he just has equivalent power to the Creator, because he came to a good realization on the mountain top ... thats more than a little thin, for me.

 

Well, yes and no. Think about it this way - things that are utterly unnatural are already happening as a result of the DO's touch, whether its apples all shriveling up, rotting and falling at once, worms in the potatoes despite green growth above or thousands of insects suddenly pouring out of a man's body. Rand's purpose is to serve as a counter to the Dark One, so within that scope I would think he was capable of pretty much anything so long as it was a 'return to form' after the DO's touch had unnaturally corrupted it, even if that return to form is a rather extreme pendulum swing the other way to serve as a counter-balance (hundreds of apples instead of dozens).

 

Actually, all the effects like "apples all shriveling up, rotting and falling at once, worms in the potatoes despite green growth above or thousands of insects suddenly pouring out of a man's body" aren't unnatural, they are simply time-accelerated natural effects. Those kinds of things would happen if the fabric (the Pattern?) of space-time (woven by the Wheel?) came apart, that is, if time could move independently, or at least, out of sync with space. If time can pass more quickly for an apple than for the tree it is on, then it is perfectly natural for the apple to shrivel and fall off while the tree is unaffected. There are plenty of insects that can and do consume human flesh, they simply take time to spawn, grow, and eat. Normally that means that a live human's immune/digestive system will deal with the eggs/larvae by killing and expelling them, but if time moves faster for the insects, well, then thousands could appear and eat the human from the inside through otherwise natural processes. Each instance of the decay, rot, and changes attributed to the Dark One can be explained through the manipulation of the flow of time (even, unfortunately, that ridiculous interlude in Hinderstrap).

 

So, if Rand's new ability of unknown (as yet) origin really is the ability to undo the Dark One's touch as if it had never happened, then with sufficient backing, it could conceivably undo the Bore. It seems to operate very much like the opposite of balefire (which would fit one of the basic Wheel of Time themes, balance, since until now balefire has been very much an unbalanced force). He can apparently localize the effect, so that you won't have the consequences of wide-spread paradox ... or maybe thats the cost of his victory. Undoing the Bore would have an incredible paradox effect, if the ripples aren't contained somehow. Still, this is way out into speculation land ...

[Silver]

Hmm,I'm tending toward a Hindersnap type event. The DO was exerting pressure and warping the pattern. When Rand comes across it, he breaks the DO's effect and the pattern reverts itself. The extra, unnatural number of apples is from the pattern rubber-banding away the negative into the positive (whereas normal pattern is as a neutral state).

[mossman87]

Aginor made himself 3,000 years younger with the pool of Saidin in a few seconds. When you wield the power that runs the universe, and then have intimate knowledge of using said power to do certain things, anything is possible.

 

I'm not sure what you're really looking for, everything in the world, including pebbles, have a thread in the Pattern. Rand can manipulate them. You want more of an explanation? How about waiting for more than just Chapter 1 of a full book before asking for it?

[Stevros]

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they will wait 1 week after chapter 1 then release chapter 2. Please be there tomorrow...

[Cyf]

I look at it like this. The Dark One's touch is a film over everything. When Rand does his thing (probably IMO because he's finally accepted who he is, truly accepted it -- LTT in his head was a sign of not doing so plus stress and other stuff), he destroys the film in the area. His very presence asserts what the Pattern /meant/ to be there.

 

As for why there's so many apples? I'm sure the DO's touch has been around, blighting crops for a while, even if not nearly as bad. It all hit at 'once' as it were.

 

Just my view.

[Owayn The Traveller]

Hey what was up with tor releasing chapter 1 after orbit?

I got the email and I was like 'yes another bite of the apple', forgive the pun.

Okay I did read it again but was disappointed. Bad tor and after the disgrace of the prologue, hello people outside America like the book, I might just boycott the new book.

Yeah right!

Where was Rand for the potato blight the bleedin' blighter!

[Morsker]

I don't think the Collum Daan is at the same place as Shayol Ghul. Demandred thinks Shayol Ghul used to be an idyllic resort, and the scene with the Collum Daan in TSR (edit: TSR, not TGS) is a more urban area.

[Noreallyjustsomeguy]

Aginor made himself 3,000 years younger with the pool of Saidin in a few seconds. When you wield the power that runs the universe, and then have intimate knowledge of using said power to do certain things, anything is possible.

 

I'm not sure what you're really looking for, everything in the world, including pebbles, have a thread in the Pattern. Rand can manipulate them. You want more of an explanation? How about waiting for more than just Chapter 1 of a full book before asking for it?

 

Rand cannot just "manipulate threads" in the way that you are talking about. That would amount to complete control over every aspect of existence. The ta'veren effect suspends or alters chance for the purposes of shifting the Pattern back into alignment over time. No observed ta'veren effect accounts for the apple-miracle. It has been stated repeatedly, by every character who speaks on the subject as well as the author outside of the books, that the ta'veren effect does not produce impossible results, only highly unlikely ones.

 

As for wanting an explanation ... am I not allowed to express a desire? I didn't say "I'm boycotting these books forever because the answer isn't here right now." -doorslam- I said that I hope an explanation is forthcoming, and if it doesn't show up, then I'll be very disappointed. I expressed a sequential conditional desire. I didn't throw down some sort of ultimatum gauntlet.

[Phariah]

ok here is how i see it. Rand is the strongest Taveren ever. events happen around him, yet they balance out. the good does not out way the bad. someone dies someones life is saved. the DO has placed his hand on the pattern and altered it. Rand's presence merely suspended the touch an altered to create a balance to the advanced decay, an advanced production.

 

it fits in with what we know of taveren, and has been remarked before that Rand is a focus for the pattern and he brings balance. i don't see anything wrong with it or extra ordinary.

[Cyf]

Rand cannot just "manipulate threads" in the way that you are talking about. That would amount to complete control over every aspect of existence. The ta'veren effect suspends or alters chance for the purposes of shifting the Pattern back into alignment over time. No observed ta'veren effect accounts for the apple-miracle. It has been stated repeatedly, by every character who speaks on the subject as well as the author outside of the books, that the ta'veren effect does not produce impossible results, only highly unlikely ones.

 

The *ta'veren* effect doesn't. Pretty much no one knows what the *Dragon* effect does. There has to be more to the Dragon than just being a ta'veren, even the strongest ever. He's pretty much unique, as far as we know. I think this is linked to that, really. Ta'veren is a facet, but only a facet. I really do think he has the ability to manipulate threads -- the way they are supposed to be, /or/ if he falls, the way he wants, ripping reality if he goes too far and releasing the Dark One. Thus why the DO doesn't just kill him. It'll end up another world like the 'Mirrors' world where the Shadow won but the DO isn't free.

[jdbond]

True however I also think it was physically there. What about the rain of black fire when Mierin drilled into it. Seems pretty physical and IIRC people were running for their lives.

 

The prison itself could be some type of vacuole thing which would physically be there while holding the DO outside the pattern.

 

 

Pattern itself is Dark one's prison and destroying it (stopping the wheel of time) is only way for DO to be truly free. Moridin knows this.