The Wild Hunt

[Luckers]

The Wild Hunt; Darkhound Anomalies

 

The Normal Darkhound

 

In the Dragon Reborn we get introduced to Darkhounds for the first time. Whilst difficult to kill, Lan manages to do so with a sword [tDR;43, Shadowbrothers], and Perrin with a bow [tDR; 44, Hunted]. They normally operate in packs of ten or twelve [CoT; 7, A Blacksmiths Puzzel], and this amount is cited as a limit by Masuri. Two packs loosed near each other will invariably turn on each other [tDR; 44, Hunted], which may also be the reason for the normal size limit on packs.

 

If we can take Masuri, Lan and Moiraine's knowledge as indicative that the above is the norm for Darkhounds, then we have two anomalous occurences within the series.

 

Anomalous Darkhounds

 

Die-Hard Darkhounds

 

In [tFoH; 6, Gateways] Rand encounters Darkhounds that won't die for anything short of balefire.

 

In the blink of an eye the sword form called Whirlwind on the Mountain became The Wind Blows Over the Wall became Unfolding the Fan. Great black heads flew apart from black bodies, their dripping teeth, like burnished steel, still bared as they bounced across the floor. He was already stepping from the mosaic as the dark forms collapsed in twitching, bleeding heaps. Laughing to himself, he let the sword go, though he held on to saidin, to the raging Power, the sweetness and the taint. Contempt slid along the' outside of the Void. Dogs. Shadowspawn, certainly, but still just... Laughter died.

 

Slowly, the dead dogs and their heads were melting, settling into pools of liquid shadow that quivered slightly, as if alive. Their blood, fanned across the' floor, trembled. Suddenly the smaller pools flowed across the floor in viscous streams to merge with the larger, 'which oozed away from 'the mosaic to mound higher and higher, until the three huge black dogs stood there once more, slavering and snarling as they gathered massive haunches under them.

 

So, despite the fact that Moiraine states Lan managed to kill one with his blade in tDR, these simply go Terminator Two on Rand's ass until he employs some balefire.

 

The Super Pack

 

In [CoT; 7 Blacksmith's Puzzel] a pack of Darkhounds circles Perrin's camp. Masuri states: "A second rarity: there may have been as many as fifty in this pack. Ten or twelve is the usual limit. A useful maxim: two rarities combined call for close attention.”

 

Masuri's first rarity was the Darkhounds being so far south, but with TG coming it's not surprising that the Shadow is moving outside its normal fields. She is correct, however, in that we know have two rarities. And, setting aside whether Masuri is a darkfriend or not, she is right that this is a rarity. Even within the course of the series the three packs we've encountered--the ones Rand destroyed in tDR, the ones Moiraine destroyed in tDR, and the ones who attacked Rhuidean--have fit within the number limits. Elyas also agrees: "A big pack. Bigger than anything I’ve ever seen or heard of."

 

Where Do These Strange Darkhounds Come From?

 

Masuri states that "Over the years, I have crossed the paths of seven packs, five of them twice and two others three times." She goes on to say that she has never encountered this pack before. Elyas makes it clear that the number seven is impressive.

 

“She said she’s crossed the paths of seven packs, and this isn’t one she’s seen before.”

 

“Seven,” Elyas murmured in surprise. “Even an Aes Sedai would have to go some to do that.

 

So, if Masuri, despite considerable effort, had never encountered these Darkhounds before, and they are displaying strange new behaviour, might one suggest that they are in fact new? Elyas describes the way Darkhounds are made...

 

“They were wolves, once. The souls of wolves, anyway, caught and twisted by the Shadow. That was the core used to make Darkhounds, the Shadowbrothers. I think that’s why the wolves have to be at the Last Battle. Or maybe Darkhounds were made because wolves will be there, to fight them. The Pattern makes Sovarra lace look like a piece of string, sometimes. Anyway, it was a long time ago, during the Trolloc Wars as near as I can make out, and the War of the Shadow before that. Wolves have long memories. What a wolf knows is never really forgotten while other wolves remain alive. They avoid talking about Darkhounds, though, and they avoid Darkhounds, too. A hundred wolves could die trying to kill one Shadowbrother. Worse, if they fail, the Darkhound can eat the souls of those that aren’t quite dead yet, and in a year or so, there’d be a new pack of Shadowbrothers that didn’t remember ever being wolves.

 

Yet does this answer the question of the oddities? After all, all Darkhounds were made new once. Did they just lose their extra abilities to survive beheadings and work in larger packs over the years? I draw your attention to something specific Elyas said: "They were wolves, once. The souls of wolves, anyway, caught and twisted by the Shadow. That was the core used to make Darkhounds, the Shadowbrothers."... "it was a long time ago, during the Trolloc Wars as near as I can make out, and the War of the Shadow before that."

 

Now originally I thought he was referring to the way Darkhounds bite wolves and then they turn--now I no longer think so. He speaks casually of a wolves dying to Darkhounds--it is a thing that could happen any time should wolves and Darkhounds cross. But the capturing of Wolves by the Shadow, the intentional twisting--that he cites with a timeframe. The Trolloc Wars, and before in the War of the Shadow.

 

I think that part was speaking of the original twisting. The method of making Darkhounds that was employed to make the very first Darkhounds--after all they can't all have been turned by a Darkhound bite. We know the Wolf came before the chicken in this stage. There must have been a first. And if there could be one, why not many?

 

Consider Masuri's comments on the number of Darkhound packs.

 

“Some ancient writers say there are only seven packs, others say nine, or thirteen, or some other number they believed had special significance, but during the Trolloc Wars, Sorelana Alsahhan wrote of ‘the hundred packs the Shadow’s hounds that hunt the night,’ and even earlier, Ivonell Bharatiya supposedly wrote of ‘hounds born of the Shadow, in numbers like unto the nightmares of mankind.’ Though in truth, Ivonell herself may be apocryphal.

 

[CoT; 7, Blacksmiths Puzzle]

 

Isn't it curious that the time in which Masuri cites their being far more Darkhounds, is also a time Elyas specifically states as being one in which Wolves were caught by the Shadow and turned.

 

My Explanation

 

Here is what I suggest. The Normal Darkhounds--the ones that Lan, Moiraine, Elyas and Masuri know of, the ones who die by normal blades and run in packs of ten--these are converted Darkhounds. Wolves bitten by Darkhounds and turned to the Shadow in that manner. The New Darkhounds are the Pure Darkhounds. The ones turned intentionally by the Shadow using the original technique. These Pure Darkhounds are clearly stronger, capable of surviving more. They also seem more intelligent, able to work in larger numbers.

 

One may wonder what other restrictions they are not faced with. For instance, would water turn them back, as it does their converted counter-parts? Another thought--just how large might a pack get?

 

The Wild Hunt

 

People speak several times of the Wild Hunt, a hunt of Darkhounds led by the Dark One. Each time they seem to doubt the normal Darkhound packs as fulfilling it.

 

“Are you telling me Nieda was right?” Zarine demanded in a shaky voice. “Old Grim is really riding with the Wild Hunt? Light! I always thought it was just a story.”

 

“Don’t be a complete fool, girl,” Lan said harshly. “If the Dark One were free, we’d all be worse than dead by now.” He peered off down the street, the way the tracks went. “But Darkhounds are real enough. Almost as dangerous as Myrddraal, and harder to kill.”

 

Even Darkhounds, though if they're really the Wild Hunt, at least the Dark One isn't free to ride behind them. They're bad enough anyway.

 

Curiously, the Wolves name the Last Battle 'The Last Hunt'. I would put forward that the Wild Hunt is not a myth, is not any of the Darkhounds we've seen before--but that it is something that is coming. A Hunt of ‘hounds born of the Shadow, in numbers like unto the nightmares of mankind.’ The CoT Super Pack is just the beginning.

 

A Memory of Light, and Darkhounds

 

I would have said CoT was a better title to resonate the entrance of the Wild Hunt--though I suppose it could be said that the Super Pack are the beginning--but setting that aside, one may notice that one of the worst times to meet the Wild Hunt is 'the time just after sunset'... when light has just become memory?

 

The CoT Super Pack; Who Are They Hunting?

 

I figure I should at least touch on this--but I got no clue. The frequently suggested Fain seems problematic to me--it makes little sense for Darkhounds to hunt a man who travels by Waygate, and besides, Slayers been tasked with his death--and in addition Fain's been nowhere near that area. The Darkhounds' prey has been evading them for some time, yes, but the trajectory of these Darkhounds indicates they've been nowhere near him--there is a difference between 'evading', and simply being elsewhere.

 

Still he is the strongest candidate. Fortuona and Mat make no sense--they were missing only days before Perrin encountered the Darkhounds. Nowhere near long enough to establish the sense of frustration Masuri states they feel. I can't think of anyone else in the area that might be said to be 'evading the shadow'.

 

One suggestion might be: what if the Darkhounds are seeking something other than a person? We know Demandred was looking for the Seals at that point, and that if you backtrack the Darkhounds course from Perrin it might lead very near to Caemlyn, and at about the same time Bashere' tent was raided. From there the Darkhounds seek out Perrin, circle his camp three times (obviously looking for something), and not finding it, move on.

 

It's possible they've been tasked to look near each of Rand's trusted allies and search therein for the Seals. Bashere's camp (and Cairhein) made a Darkhound attack implausible, so others are tasked with finding the seals. One may ask, for instance, how did the Shadow identify Bashere and Dobraine? Maybe the Darkhounds could sniff out the Seal present, and alerted the Shadow. From there Perrin's camp was checked, and proved not to have a seal, so they move on. Frustrated. Toward Mat's last known location.

[Barid Bel Medar]

mmm, it is interesting, i like the idea of the "pure" darkhounds. Seems to fit.

 

I got no idea who they were hunting either. No idea at all.

 

oh,

 

 

In [tDR; 6, Gateways] Rand encounters Darkhounds that won't die for anything short of balefire.

 

Should be FoH

[haloun]

here is another thought, no one really knows what the shadar logoth taint is except that it was a weapon of the shadow turned against the shadow, could the super hounds actually be led by fain? just a thought he was a powerful darkfriend before and now he has a knack for turning darkfriends to his own twisted war, which seems to be against both the dragon reborn and the shadow. anyways just a thought.

[Duskfire]

They could be hunting Rand. He has been all over the place establishing false leads and whatnot; I imagine the Darkhounds would find that hard to follow. He was in Tear for quite awhile which is the problem and they were headed south which isn't really a direct route to tear at all. But its still possibly Rand.

 

But yeah, Fain is the best choice. Slayer is obviously not having much lucky in dealing with Fain, so they send a bunch of darkhounds instead. The idea also has its flaws, but Fain and Rand are the only ones who fit really.

 

How fast do Darkhounds move? I looked around but couldnt find any indications as to whether they run all day and night, or only just at night (I probably missed it though.)

[Kal Logan]

I wonder if they are following other wolf packs and turning them into DHs

[Lisa Campbell]

Maybe the "pure" darkhounds and extra strength/resilience comes from being sacrified in TAR by Slayer? So maybe they are hunting Fain seeing as that is what Slayer has been charged with.

[NetSlider]

I think that "the souls of wolves" are the wolves from TAR and in some way they are pulled out from TAR and "reshaped" into Darkhounds.

[Durinax]

maybe the super strong ones are ones who have been converting others, and in the process making themselves stronger

[Zyntras]

afaik, the 'normal darkhounds' were hard to kill, too.

 

Perrin +bow => hound died but was obliterated by balefire shortly afterwards, so it would have been possible for it to *stand up again*

 

lans kill => was offscreen => perhaps moirain minibalefired the remains, or they ran very fast before it stood up again ^^

[The Fisher King]

Luckers: You point out two things that interest me here:

 

 

1 Your supposition that the pack may have been hunting a something as opposed to a someone.

 

2 Your observation that the pack did indeed circle Perrins camp three times.

 

 

These two points lead me to the question:

 

 

Is there any object that we know of in Perrin's camp that would be of interest to the Shadow?

 

 

 

Fish

[Lynchgrinch]

I'm LOVING the "pure" darkhound idea , Luckers. It seems to fit realy well.

 

As for what the MegaDHPack (i'm calling it that from now on BTW ) were hunting. i've no idea.

 

If it were something as mundaine as Rand or Fain i think we would have found out by now. I mean everyone is hunting someone or other, it would just be some other hunt to mull over. I recon it's something bigger and better than that.

 

Maby the idea about "sniffing" out the DO's seals is right? Or maby it's some other object? don't ask me what though.

[a5m]

I was under the impression that they circled Perin's camp once and moved on. Where do we get three times from?

[Jillain Sanche]

So' date=' if Masuri, despite considerable effort, had never encountered these Darkhounds before, and they are displaying strange new behaviour, might one suggest that they are in fact new? Elyas describes the way Darkhounds are made...

 

“They were wolves, once. The souls of wolves, anyway, caught and twisted by the Shadow. That was the core used to make Darkhounds, the Shadowbrothers. I think that’s why the wolves have to be at the Last Battle. Or maybe Darkhounds were made because wolves will be there, to fight them. The Pattern makes Sovarra lace look like a piece of string, sometimes. Anyway, it was a long time ago, during the Trolloc Wars as near as I can make out, and the War of the Shadow before that. Wolves have long memories. What a wolf knows is never really forgotten while other wolves remain alive. They avoid talking about Darkhounds, though, and they avoid Darkhounds, too. A hundred wolves could die trying to kill one Shadowbrother. Worse, if they fail, the Darkhound can eat the souls of those that aren’t quite dead yet, and in a year or so, there’d be a new pack of Shadowbrothers that didn’t remember ever being wolves.

 

And there have been a lot of wolves killed recently, whether in the flesh or TAR, as Perrin could not find them, was that around the Two Rivers(?) when he was last there. The Slayer character is apparently working with one of the Forsaken to create new packs of Darkhounds?

[Xader]

So' date=' if Masuri, despite considerable effort, had never encountered these Darkhounds before, and they are displaying strange new behaviour, might one suggest that they are in fact new? Elyas describes the way Darkhounds are made...

 

“They were wolves, once. The souls of wolves, anyway, caught and twisted by the Shadow. That was the core used to make Darkhounds, the Shadowbrothers. I think that’s why the wolves have to be at the Last Battle. Or maybe Darkhounds were made because wolves will be there, to fight them. The Pattern makes Sovarra lace look like a piece of string, sometimes. Anyway, it was a long time ago, during the Trolloc Wars as near as I can make out, and the War of the Shadow before that. Wolves have long memories. What a wolf knows is never really forgotten while other wolves remain alive. They avoid talking about Darkhounds, though, and they avoid Darkhounds, too. A hundred wolves could die trying to kill one Shadowbrother. Worse, if they fail, the Darkhound can eat the souls of those that aren’t quite dead yet, and in a year or so, there’d be a new pack of Shadowbrothers that didn’t remember ever being wolves.

 

And there have been a lot of wolves killed recently, whether in the flesh or TAR, as Perrin could not find them, was that around the Two Rivers(?) when he was last there. The Slayer character is apparently working with one of the Forsaken to create new packs of Darkhounds?

 

Good point.

 

I had always attributed it to Slayer's love of...well...slaying.

 

But a "harvest" of sorts certainly seems plausible.

 

BUT candidate perhaps? Didn't Slayer first appear in TSR?

[Durinax]

in the Two rivers slayer was hunting wolves in the dream causing the area to be deserted by them

[Ozzie_aiel]

The large pack may have been smaller once, but has increased its size with every wolf it's come across and killed. Do we know if fallen wolves join the pack that turned them?

 

My money is that they were hunting Fain, who was last seen in Far Madding and could've left going east.

 

As for the different kinds of Darkhounds, a simpler explanation could be they were 'enhanced' somehow by one of the Chosen. And we don't know if any other weave would've worked, Rand went from slicing and dicing straight to Balefire. It is possible that a fireball, of freezing them would work just as well.

[Kal11]

Nice post Luckers. I think Fain being the target of their search has merit although I would not say it is certain by any means. Given that Slayer seems connected to the process of making and possibly controlling Darkhounds (which makes sense given that he is Perrin's main nemesis throughout the story) they could very well be at his disposal and sent in search of Fain. Slayer has a number of tasks and targets however so it is far from conclusive in that respect.

 

Another point in favor of it possibly being Fain is the size of the pack. We have no clue just how powerful he really is or what he is capable of doing exactly, he is the wildcard character. He has been at large for quite awhile now and steadily growing in power, for all we know the Shadow may have grown afraid of him or his potential by this point in the story and is trying to send an overwhelming force of DHs after him. As we saw when they went after Rand and Mat in TFOH they moved in an assassin style and did not attack openly, preferring stealth to overwhelming numbers. Who else would warrant such a large scale pack besides Rand who is well out of the league of DHs by this point?

[Hopefire]

Personally, I think that the simplest explanation is that the improved Darkhounds are to Darkhounds what Fades are to Trollocs. Not quite the same mechanism, but similar, with the darkness coming out stronger and causing it to be something different than the standard model.

[jahnfriederik]

Seems more likely that this is one of the internal inconsistencies that must result from a series of books this large. Maybe they were originally meant to be killed only by balefire (I think gholems would be too, excepting Mat's talisman and the can't-pass-through-gateways + falling-forever trick).

 

The twisting wolves into darkhounds sounds an awful lot like a tip of the hat to, if you will (or just pure ripping off of) Tolkien's own "shadowspawn". Trollocs and fades are a corrupted form of humans; darkhounds of wolves; orcs of elves*; trolls of ents.

 

*Apparently Tolkien changed his mind a bit about this one. See here.

[herid]

Seems more likely that this is one of the internal inconsistencies that must result from a series of books this large. Maybe they were originally meant to be killed only by balefire (I think gholems would be too, excepting Mat's talisman and the can't-pass-through-gateways + falling-forever trick).

They are not internal inconsistencies. At least they are "officially" new kinds of darkhounds according to BS.

 

 

Jonathan Ruholl on Twitter - 17 January 2011

Some friends and I are making a tournament bracket for monsters (194 total). We have three Darkhounds vs a Myrddraal. Thoughts?

Brandon

New or old Darkhounds?

Felix

Huh? Is there a meaningful difference between new or old Darkhounds?5

Brandon

:)

 

The best theory on the subject I've seen is that the new darkhounds are being created by Slayer in TAR somehow. They have definite similarities with TAR creations and Slayer has been killing a lot of wolves in TAR. It could be for sport but it could also be for other goals. I'm also quite sure that the packs that showed up near Perrin in CoT were hunting Fain. There is no other target that makes sense and Slayer has been tasked with killing Fain since TSR which by his own account was the reason he showed up in the Two Rivers. It's also mentioned in WH, Ch 13 that he is still on the job of killing Fain.

[Durinax]

if they where hunting wolves, they could have sensed the wolves scent on perrins mind, causing them confusion so they circled and decided he wasnt their prey so they continued on.

 

this also nicely explains why there are so many wolves in tar when perrin sees VoG

[Skeeve the Great]

I like much more simplier explanations.

 

I don't consider DH to be different types. We've never actually seen the ones that Perrin and Lan "killed" dead. We've seen Moiraine killed DH with balefire, the same technique Rand used. For all we know, the resurrected ones were the same that attacked Rand later.

 

So, in short, there is no super DH types. It's all the same. The only new twist is the size of the new pack. Which I explain as the several packs jumbled together for the same task. We know that Slayer was busy killing wolves, so maybe there much more packs created lately and the Shadow just don't have that much tasks to do for them or the task is so super important that the Shadow allocated several packs to it.

[herid]

I like much more simplier explanations.

 

I don't consider DH to be different types. We've never actually seen the ones that Perrin and Lan "killed" dead. We've seen Moiraine killed DH with balefire, the same technique Rand used. For all we know, the resurrected ones were the same that attacked Rand later.

 

So, in short, there is no super DH types. It's all the same. The only new twist is the size of the new pack. Which I explain as the several packs jumbled together for the same task. We know that Slayer was busy killing wolves, so maybe there much more packs created lately and the Shadow just don't have that much tasks to do for them or the task is so super important that the Shadow allocated several packs to it.

the quote by BS I gave above confirms that the new darkhounds are really new and different from the old ones.

[Didgya]

The large pack may have been smaller once, but has increased its size with every wolf it's come across and killed. Do we know if fallen wolves join the pack that turned them?

 

My money is that they were hunting Fain, who was last seen in Far Madding and could've left going east.

 

As for the different kinds of Darkhounds, a simpler explanation could be they were 'enhanced' somehow by one of the Chosen. And we don't know if any other weave would've worked, Rand went from slicing and dicing straight to Balefire. It is possible that a fireball, of freezing them would work just as well.

 

Wheel of Time is the best thing in the world....NOT ;)

 

 

My wife was having some fun with my computer please ignore

[mb]

small packs being wolves that were turned, big packs being pure darkhound; I would guess not necessarily so with either.

 

possibilities for either type of pack::

-wolves that were turned

-their descendants

-pure darkhound

-combination of any of the above

 

Unless either author commented, the packs composition would be anybody's guess.