Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Ataxia]

I didn't know where to ask this, but this thread made sense.

 

When their channeler kicks the bucket, the Warder goes crazy and ends up getting themselves killed. Is it possible that side effect could be healed? I know they can be saved by being bonded again but it doesnt always work. When Nynaeve is talking to Daigian , she offers to find a way to heal the emotional damage of the bond. Has there been any speculation or answers from RJ or BS? I always thought it was pretty unfair to the warder. She cries while he rushes off and gets killed.

 

 

I guess I just picture something happening to Myrelle and Nynaeve saving Lan with some healing. But then again, if she bonded Lan I think he would be saved.

 

Edit- Nynaeve could also save Rand with the healing if something happens to one of his women. IE, Alanna.

 

[Auld Manriva]

At that time Rand thought Alviarin might really be a supporter of his. Note the *might*... So he was possibly just making an observation or explaining why he was being more or less civil. I don't recall the exact events.

 

BUT ... Neither Rand nor Eggy or anyone else had an inkling at the time Alviarin or Galina were Black.

 

 

[Sharaman]

Somebody posted a questiona about Rand interaction with the Black Ajah.

 

Just wondering if anyone else notice how when he meets the embassy from Elaida he says Galina is one of Alviarin's friends. So he might have suspected she was BA, what do u think?

Rand didn't know Alviarin was BA, just that she had written a puzzling letter to him, mentioning friends. He asked Moiraine if AS could lie in writing and Moiraine shook her head "no" so he was very curious what Alvi meant. Of course, we know that Alvi is CEO of the BA and can lie.

He noticed that Galina reacted with surprise and answered before she could help herself when he asked "How's Alviarin?" when the embassy first arrived. So he concluded (correctly) there was a connection between the two women.

 

About Myrelle, she's in the Black Tower with the Rebel embassy that has gone there to bond 47 (?) Ashaman as warders at Rand's invite. Her bond with Lan can't be transferred because she and Nyn have not been in the same place, (apart from any reluctance she may have). The Myrelle-Lan connect could be important since Lan would react if Myrelle is harmed/ dead (also vice-versa) and we have seen no signs of that, so far. Myrelle went to the BT before Lan was plonked onto World's End.

 

 

 

[thewalrus777]

I didn't know where to ask this, but this thread made sense.

 

When their channeler kicks the bucket, the Warder goes crazy and ends up getting themselves killed. Is it possible that side effect could be healed? I know they can be saved by being bonded again but it doesnt always work. When Nynaeve is talking to Daigian , she offers to find a way to heal the emotional damage of the bond. Has there been any speculation or answers from RJ or BS? I always thought it was pretty unfair to the warder. She cries while he rushes off and gets killed.

 

 

I guess I just picture something happening to Myrelle and Nynaeve saving Lan with some healing. But then again, if she bonded Lan I think he would be saved.

 

Edit- Nynaeve could also save Rand with the healing if something happens to one of his women. IE, Alanna.

 

I would imagine that it could be healed. If stilling/gentling can be healed, that most certainly could be healed as well. We just don't know if they'll ever put it in the books.

 

Rand wouldn't need to be healed if Alanna were to kick the bucket. Why? He has a seperate warder bond with his 3 ladies. There wouldn't need to be an worry because he's still bonded. I remember when Alanna slapped Rand for being bonded by someone else. That's if I remember correctly. He then proceeded to tell her to never come in his presence ever again.

[Sharaman]

Rand never forbade Alanna to come into his presence. She's hot and LTT enjoys looking at her! RaT's been giving her assignments, which keep her at a distance because he's scared that the Chosen will get after her if they figure out there's a link between them.

 

[thewalrus777]

Rand never forbade Alanna to come into his presence. She's hot and LTT enjoys looking at her! RaT's been giving her assignments, which keep her at a distance because he's scared that the Chosen will get after her if they figure out there's a link between them.

 

 

Thanks for the reminder. I now remeber when she slapped the hell outta him. He then proceeded to go off on her for bonding him against his will, which broke a major Tower law. That whole scene was nuts.

[witsd]

Rand wouldn't need to be healed if Alanna were to kick the bucket. Why? He has a seperate warder bond with his 3 ladies. There wouldn't need to be an worry because he's still bonded.

Is there even any evidence that the warder bond (when broken) does affect men who can channel in the same way as a normal warder?

 

I know we've had a few channelling bondees die (such as Eben), but I can't think of any bonders kicking the bucket and leaving their other half alive...

 

Am I forgetting something?

[thewalrus777]

Rand wouldn't need to be healed if Alanna were to kick the bucket. Why? He has a seperate warder bond with his 3 ladies. There wouldn't need to be an worry because he's still bonded.

Is there even any evidence that the warder bond (when broken) does affect men who can channel in the same way as a normal warder?

 

I know we've had a few channelling bondees die (such as Eben), but I can't think of any bonders kicking the bucket and leaving their other half alive...

 

Am I forgetting something?

We haven't really seen any evidence regarding the Warder bond with men who can channel. It's my understanding that the Warder bond works the same for all men, regardless wether they channel or not.

[witsd]

We haven't really seen any evidence regarding the Warder bond with men who can channel. It's my understanding that the Warder bond works the same for all men, regardless wether they channel or not.

Well we know that those that can channel can't be 'forced' through the bond – Alanna tried on Rand and completely failed. Also, we know that only channellers can mask their bond – Avi can, Min and Birgitte can't.

 

So there are certainly some differences when the bondee can channel.

[thewalrus777]

We haven't really seen any evidence regarding the Warder bond with men who can channel. It's my understanding that the Warder bond works the same for all men, regardless wether they channel or not.

Well we know that those that can channel can't be 'forced' through the bond – Alanna tried on Rand and completely failed. Also, we know that only channellers can mask their bond – Avi can, Min and Birgitte can't.

 

So there are certainly some differences when the bondee can channel.

 

I was just meaning in regards to the "death of" side effects. I know that channelers have differing abilities in the bond than non-channelers.

[yoniy0]

We haven't really seen any evidence regarding the Warder bond with men who can channel. It's my understanding that the Warder bond works the same for all men, regardless wether they channel or not.

Well we know that those that can channel can't be 'forced' through the bond Alanna tried on Rand and completely failed. Also, we know that only channellers can mask their bond Avi can, Min and Birgitte can't.

 

So there are certainly some differences when the bondee can channel.

 

I don't see what the masking have to do with changes that occur for channeling bondees (Rand can, Birgitte can't, and both bonds work the same way in that regard - the bonder can mask the bond. As long as he/she can channel themselves, that is).

One other thing - consider that we only saw Alanna trying to control Rand WHILE he was actively channeling. I saw it discussed somewhere that this fact might have been key, i.e. that it isn't his ability to channel that was at work there.

 

EDIT: BTW my guess is he would feel the death rage thingy, because we know that while a bond does help healing a man of that, it isn't enough to heal it on its own. I'll admit, we only know that's true for after-the-fact bonding, but my feeling is that that's the rule.

[lillcheese]

We haven't really seen any evidence regarding the Warder bond with men who can channel. It's my understanding that the Warder bond works the same for all men, regardless wether they channel or not.

Well we know that those that can channel can't be 'forced' through the bond – Alanna tried on Rand and completely failed. Also, we know that only channellers can mask their bond – Avi can, Min and Birgitte can't.

 

So there are certainly some differences when the bondee can channel.

 

I don't see what the masking have to do with changes that occur for channeling bondees (Rand can, Birgitte can't, and both bonds work the same way in that regard - the bonder can mask the bond. As long as he/she can channel themselves, that is).

One other thing - consider that we only saw Alanna trying to control Rand WHILE he was actively channeling. I saw it discussed somewhere that this fact might have been key, i.e. that it isn't his ability to channel that was at work there.

 

I seem to recall Rand thinking about how the handkerchief trick didn't work for him or Min. He thought that might be why Avi was avoiding him, because he had failed to mask what he was doing with Min. 

[yoniy0]

I seem to recall Rand thinking about how the handkerchief trick didn't work for him or Min. He thought that might be why Avi was avoiding him, because he had failed to mask what he was doing with Min. 

 

Well, we know Min can't mask her bond with Rand, but as I explained above, that's irrelevant. As to Rand and Aviendha, I don't remember anything of the sort, but even if that were so, that's immaterial as well - Rand is the bondee and Aviendha the bonder, so of course he can't mask the bond with her.

[yoniy0]

The Myrelle-Lan connect could be important since Lan would react if Myrelle is harmed/ dead (also vice-versa) and we have seen no signs of that, so far. Myrelle went to the BT before Lan was plonked onto World's End.

 

That's an interesting point, one I haven't considered before (I get tired trying to follow the timelines). Could you elaborate on the exact time difference there?

Also, we know that she's not dead (which is good, I was kind of worried about them), but we can't be sure she's not harmed. They're very far apart, and he probably doesn't feel anything more than a general direction (Elayne almost didn't feel Rand loosing an arm, and they were closer I think, or at least about the same distance).

[deathgate]

About Myrelle, she's in the Black Tower with the Rebel embassy that has gone there to bond 47 (?) Ashaman as warders at Rand's invite. Her bond with Lan can't be transferred because she and Nyn have not been in the same place, (apart from any reluctance she may have).

 

That could lead to Nynaeve being around when the Black Tower is attacked if Myrelle is killed so the bond can be passed.

[Sharaman]

The Myrelle-Lan connect could be important since Lan would react if Myrelle is harmed/ dead (also vice-versa) and we have seen no signs of that, so far. Myrelle went to the BT before Lan was plonked onto World's End.

 

That's an interesting point, one I haven't considered before (I get tired trying to follow the timelines). Could you elaborate on the exact time difference there?

Also, we know that she's not dead (which is good, I was kind of worried about them), but we can't be sure she's not harmed. They're very far apart, and he probably doesn't feel anything more than a general direction (Elayne almost didn't feel Rand loosing an arm, and they were closer I think, or at least about the same distance).

Actually difficult to be certain. According to the sevenspokes.com site timelines

The proposal to bond Ashaman is passed around Egwene's 8-9th day in captivity. We don't know if they leave immediately for BT.  

Lan leaves for Saldaea a day or so later.

No, he wouldn't feel minor injury or distress, only the bond snapping if she dies/ is stilled.

Pevara and Co, arrive a few days after the proposal is made to the rebels.

When Egwene is freed, she is disturbed to learn that there has been no word from the BT delegation.

 

[lillcheese]

I seem to recall Rand thinking about how the handkerchief trick didn't work for him or Min. He thought that might be why Avi was avoiding him, because he had failed to mask what he was doing with Min. 

 

Well, we know Min can't mask her bond with Rand, but as I explained above, that's irrelevant. As to Rand and Aviendha, I don't remember anything of the sort, but even if that were so, that's immaterial as well - Rand is the bondee and Aviendha the bonder, so of course he can't mask the bond with her.

 

I see your point, but that reminded me of Elyas.  Couldn't he mask his bond? 

[SI]

Isn;t the sa'angreal that is more powerful than callendor the ring of the tamyrlin? Or am I mixing something up?

 

My questions: Was it ever figured out why taim uses the term "so-called aiel", and how he learned to ignore the heat?

[lordofsoup]

I think ignoring the heat is just something that all channelers can learn, but it doesnot have anything to do with strength in the Power. 

 

I dont know about the first one, do you have to situation Taim does it?

[SI]

It is something anyone can learn but I find it suspicious that taim knows it already.

 

The aiel quote comes from LoC, I think it was something about rand needing his own army in case the so called aiel desert him.

 

 

[lordofsoup]

Well im just digging this out of someother threads that i have been reading, so these are not my ideas. 

 

Some people believe that Taim may have been upgraded to status of Chosen by the DO.  If he was someone would have given him a crash course in history so he could learn a little more about what he was dealing with. 

 

Others that he is Demandred's pawn, and Demandred may have taught him some history.

 

He would have heard if he was trying hard enough to find out the history of the Aiel, that they followed the Way of the Leaf before they became Aiel and it is his own thought that is coincedentially the same as many of hte Chosen's.

[Morsmordre]

Shaidar Haran first appears in LoC. Demandred meets him at SG and then the two Gars have a pleasant chat with him.

An earlier beta version has a conversation with Carridin in TGH.

Lots of discussion of him, and his strange powers, and his rather unusual sense of humour.

 

 

Wrong, Shaidar Haran firstly appears in EotW, in Beirlon.

[Sharaman]

Demandred's connection with the BT is puzzling. He doesn't recognise Flinn and he's not very familiar with the uniform.

But he does give orders to Ashaman to kill Rand. So he does sort of stay in touch.

 

Taim obviously has scholarly acquaintance with the Old Tongue and a strong knowledge of history.

He calls himself M'Hael and he quotes the "Lords of Chaos" statement.

He knows about the lost art of Travel, which he recognises when Rand shows the weave.

He also does refer to the "so-called Aiel", which is a statement that sounds straight out of the AoL.

A historical scholar might not think of Aiel that way even if he knows the origins of the Aiel, which very few people actually did until Rand reveals it.

We don't have much idea of what Taim did prior to proclaiming himself Dragon Reborn. We know he's from Saldaea and he had been channeling saidin for quite a while without going apparently insane. He may have been a student of history or old languages. He is obviously a man of some learning.

 

There is another odd statement he makes once when he claims that he is useless with a sword or other physical weapons when he argues with Rand about teaching weapons to Ashaman. As a Borderlander, this is very strange since even cobblers etc, are taught the use of weapons in the Borderlands (Narishma who was a cobbler, explains that he would be able to beat 3 out of 4 Southern soldiers due to his militia training).

[OptimusPrime]

Also, at one point Rand said something like "if theres any trouble between the Ashaman and Aes Sedai, I'll come looking for you." and Taim said somthing like "So if Demandred makes a move, I get the blame?"

 

Exact wording is way off, but does anyone else remember that? If it actually exists, it is before Rand is captured by the Aes Sedai

[Vermillion]

I think Taim is a unheard of Chosen reborn and has taint induced memories like Rand or is one of the current ones.  His knowledge and sayings are too close.