Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[mb]

 

Rand & Min like rabbits; which book & chapter and which scene?

 

Rand & Aviendha in snow, I recall them only walking/running around in that scene; not anything sexual.

 

Perrin & Faile; their first scenes after Shadow Rising seem to indicate that they just traveled around after their wedding.

Yeah, you DEFINITELY need to learn to read between the lines.  RJ is never explicit, he never writes "and then they banged it out," haha.

 

Different readers could interpret scenes differently.

 

Rand & Aviendha; from re-reading the scene, the only sexual thing they did was kissing.

Rand & Min; all I recall of them in mid series was them visiting various people.

 

 

 

Perrin & Faile; their first scenes after Shadow Rising seem to indicate that they just traveled around after their wedding.

after plenty of intim

From re-reading several Perrin & Faile scenes in Lord of Chaos, I still think that they only traveled around during the time of Fires of Heaven.

[jedman67]

 

 

Rand & Min like rabbits; which book & chapter and which scene?

 

Rand & Aviendha in snow, I recall them only walking/running around in that scene; not anything sexual.

 

Perrin & Faile; their first scenes after Shadow Rising seem to indicate that they just traveled around after their wedding.

Yeah, you DEFINITELY need to learn to read between the lines.  RJ is never explicit, he never writes "and then they banged it out," haha.

 

Different readers could interpret scenes differently.

 

Rand & Aviendha; from re-reading the scene, the only sexual thing they did was kissing.

Rand & Min; all I recall of them in mid series was them visiting various people.

 

 

 

Perrin & Faile; their first scenes after Shadow Rising seem to indicate that they just traveled around after their wedding.

after plenty of intim

From re-reading several Perrin & Faile scenes in Lord of Chaos, I still think that they only traveled around during the time of Fires of Heaven.

 

rand and min first started getting together after coulevere hanged herself. rand has a pov shortly after where he remembers "forcing himself" on her, and min basically tells him that he's an idiot for not realizing that she wanted to sleep with him - that it was consensual.

 

The only scene where its implied that perrin and faile were together was the night of their wedding and when she led the watch hill people to fight off the trollocs, it says that perrin grabbed failed and hurried her into the inn.

 

for the rest? well, perrin is married, so for what reason would they not sleep together (except in carhain, when she gets jealous of perrin/berelain).

 

Rand and Aviehenda doing it in the snow, well ya gotta reread that bit.

 

If you personally would rather believe that all the characters were chaste, go ahead (i personally wouldn't mind the sex stuff being trimmed out a bit) but it adds weight and realism to the characters.

[EmperorAllspice]

if everyone in this series thinks that destiny controls everything and they have no choice in what happens to them, why do they even bother trying to stay alive?

 

Also, Mat thinks that he has no choice but to marry Tuon. What if he, say, ran her through with his staff? What would happen? Would he suffer a spontaneous brain anneurysm to keep him from doing so? would he trip so the hit wouldn't connect? A lot of "fated" stuff only happens because they're actively aware that it's fated to happen. But nobody ever seems to bring up the oddness of this, or questions the point of doing anything if their path is apparently etched in stone before they do it.

[clutzyninja]

They don't believe in fate.  Even the Karaethon Cycle is what MAY happen, it doesn't even say for sure that the Dragon will win.  The pattern is a weave, and each thread is a life.  The pattern spins you out a certain way, and if you just coast through life your destiny won't change much.  THat's nothing groundbreaking.  A thread can go astray, though.  It's just that the further you stray from your original direction, the harder you have to struggle against the pattern.

Now CERTAIN things are meant to happen.  Mat DID have to marry Tuon.  As for what would happen if he killed her, well, we all know he never would, so that's a pointless question.

Taveren don't get the same luxury, they're more firmly attached in the pattern, as are the threads that surround them.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Yeah, things aren't all that pre-determined normally. It is only with Ta'veren - exceptionally powerful ones at that - that the Pattern "forces". It seems much more predominant because 1) All of the main characters are either Ta'veren or closely linked with them. 2) it is the Last Battle, which is perhaps the most important conflict of any age, so the Pattern is most strict here.

 

For most people, the Pattern "allows" free reign. Of course, Rand Mat and Perrin (among others who are forced by the Pattern) complain and rue their fate. They all hate it, and this is even a big point in Rand's psychological deterioration. He has similar thoughts about the Pattern and the relative pointlessness of his life.

 

Of course, even then it is one thing to hate it, but another to actually decide to die. And Rand at least comes close to that thought many times. But overall, even knowing that their lives may be pre-determined, they don't want to end it.

 

As for Mat killing Tuon. It is physically possible, but the thing about fate is not that it "prevents" Mat from doing so, it's the fact that Mat's nature won't allow him to do so. He would never kill Tuon - or anyone not a Darkfriend - to escape fate. The Pattern doesn't always "force" people to do things, often it is because of their nature that prophecies etc.. are fulfilled. So it comes true because of who Mat is, not because he was forced to. If he was the type that would kill someone like that, there wouldn't be a prophecy about such a thing. 

 

The Pattern may have guided Mat and Tuon together, but ultimately it happened because Mat and Tuon both assented. It's kind of like the Pattern was their parents introducing them to each other trying to get them to marry, but in the end it was them who actually did it. (the ceremony on Mat's part was a bit weird, but he ended up wanting to marry her). 

 

So the Pattern doesn't necessarily always force people against their will. Prophecies and viewings often come to pass because the person willingly chooses the path.

 

The Pattern DOES sometimes put people in situations against their will, but instead of them being forced to comply, you could say that they are put in the situations because the Pattern "knows" (figuratively) that they will act how it wants them to. 

 

Even then, it is not infallible. Sometimes the Pattern "fails" and people go against what they are supposed to do, so the Pattern has to "try again". 

 

(Note, the Pattern isn't actually sentient, but it's easiest to describe that way. The Pattern doesn't "think", it just weaves the most probable solutions, like a computer. If it gets it wrong, it weaves the next plan to fix the error in the system.) 

[EmperorAllspice]

you think that's why the Taveren-ness didn't activate until it did. It was gaining data on them, to determine how they would act for a while before throwing stuff that needed to happen at them.

 

Still don't know how the dark one can fight a system like that. Since he can't exactly switch off the threads that his own people are being weaved into. So if it wanted them gone it could just weave them to their deaths

[Barid Bel Medar]

The Dark One can destroy threads completely.

 

The Pattern is like an anti-virus software, the DO a virus. But the DO can destroy parts of the anti-virus software so it can't work as efficiently. The DO CAN switch off threads his people are woven into, or at least alter them. 

 

The Pattern couldn't stop the Forsaken from messing up the world. It can't "act", and can't send down a lightning bolt or make one of the Forsaken trip over and kill themselves. It doesn't have that power, the DO, since it is outside the Pattern, can alter things without the Pattern's "knowledge". The Pattern can only react once it has located the disturbance. Sometimes, the damage may have already been done.  

 

To give an example of the way the DO and the Pattern works look at the White Tower. 

 

Mesaana and co. split the Tower for the DO and put the two factions at war with each other, while forcing Elaida etc.. to screw things up even more. The Pattern couldn't prevent this, since it involved the DO, it can't "predict" what the Shadow will do. 

 

However, once the split happened and crap hit the fan etc.. the Pattern produced Egwene in hopes of fixing things. 

 

The Pattern can "heal" itself, just like anything. It acts to keep itself running. Thus Ta'veren are spun out and guided towards fixing things. But it can't force things to be fixed. 

 

Also, the damage done by the DO is still there. It may be countered, but it cannot be undone. Even though Egwene re-united the Tower, it is severely weakened by the rebellion and much worse off than it was if it had been whole for the entire time preparing for the Last Battle. 

 

The White Tower mess is one of the only ones the Pattern really had a hand in fixing. 

 

Rhavin, Be'lal and Sammael who each took entire nations were only brought down because Rand and co. fought them. They were not tripped up by the Pattern and made to lose, it was people who destroyed them. Be'lal was taken by surprise by Moriaine, nothing extraordinary about that. Rhavin was killed by Rand's rage and Nynaeve's presence. Sammael would have won if Moridin hadn't came to rescue Rand - something the DO came up with. He was careless and got himself eaten by Mashadar. 

 

Semirhage wasn't stopped by the Pattern. She killed the entire Seanchan Imperial family bar Tuon without opposition. She was caught because of Rand's guard and Cadsuane's paralis-net (which messed with her illusion). Subsequently, the Shadow used her to tear Rand to shreds mentally and nearly succeeded in doing so. 

 

Again, the Pattern can only provide a solution - it can't make the solution work, nor can it predict the DO's actions. 

[EmperorAllspice]

Thematic reasons and symbolism aside, did Perrin ever think of Dual wielding his Axe and Hammer?

[Barid Bel Medar]

I don't think so. 

 

He isn't really a weapon's expert, so it wouldn't occur to him. He just wants something to hit things with. 

 

Another reason may have been that the weapons were too heavy to fight with. While Perrin is strong enough to swing either one with one hand, I don't think he'd be able to fight well with both. He might be able to do it for a few minutes, but it would be awfully hard. I think one weapon would be far more effective than dual wielding. 

 

To my knowledge - and it's not that extensive - dual wielding is far less efficient than using one unless the person is specifically trained in dual weapon combat. Mastering one-weapon style is - again, to my knowlege- easier and more efficient. 

 

That is of course for the bigger weapons. Daggers and smaller weapons are better for dual wielding than bigger weapons. 

 

It would certainly be cool in a movie, but I don't think dual wielding like that would actually work realistically. 

[EmperorAllspice]

I asked this on another thread, but it might've been better to ask it more officially here.

 

WHY does the fandom seem to consider Perrin dumb or stupid. Is it purely because of his obsessiveness over Faile and how it hinders his judgement?

[Barid Bel Medar]

I don't know. 

 

Personally, I don't consider Perrin stupid. 

 

If I had to guess, it would be as you said, because of his obsessiveness over Faile - but that's emotional blindness, not stupidity - and the fact that Perrin is shown as a slow and deliberate thinker. He doesn't have the quick wit of Mat or the reckless ingenuity of Rand. He takes time to think things through fully, not wanting to charge in blindly. 

 

In fact, Perrin and others comment on this in the story. That many characters think Perrin is stupid or slow, when he is really a cautious planner.  

[clutzyninja]

The fact that Tylee, a Seanchan General and master tactician, had nothing but praise for Perrin's plans and tactics is almost enough proof of his intelligence by itself.

[EmperorAllspice]

Is it ever implied or stated by RJ or anything anywhere what some of the Ter'angreal the people of the third age use are actually for?

 

Like it's heavily implied that they're being used incorrectly and likley serve radically different functions from the one they were initially made for.

[Suttree]

Not sure if it's exactly what you are looking for but click on "items" here.

 

http://www.encyclopaedia-wot.org/

[mb]

Is it ever implied or stated by RJ or anything anywhere what some of the Ter'angreal the people of the third age use are actually for?

 

Like it's heavily implied that they're being used incorrectly and likley serve radically different functions from the one they were initially made for.

Are you asking about the use of various terangreal during Age of Legends?  Few examples were given.

The Oath Rods (called binders during Age of Legends) were used on criminals that were channelers; I do not remember where that was told.

Some chapter in Knife of Dreams seems to identify the intended use of a number of other terangreal.

 

The page the other poster mentioned; here is the full link::  http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/items/index.html

 

As far as I recall, adam (the saidar kind) were first created sometime during the Third Age.  Their current use seems to match with their intended use.

 

The current use of other terangreal actually is not incorrect.

[Rhienne]

Aviendha has a gift for reading ter'angreal.  The chapter mb is referring to is Chapter 15 (KoD) 'A Different Skill', and Aviendha is able to sense the original purpose of many of the ter'angreal the supergirls found in Ebour Dar.  Most of these aren't used, or used 'wrongly', in the series though, so we don't get too many chances to compare the current and intended use.

[EmperorAllspice]

...Why do Ta'veren need to exist at all? Now, I ask because, it's mentioned that a Ta'veren doesn't control their powers, their path is carved out by the Pattern and it actively seeks to railroad them down the path it want. Now, why does a person NEED to be a Ta'veren for the Pattern to do this? An answer to another question I asked earlier regarding the tower yielded the answer of Egwene being used by the Pattern to try and merge the White Tower back together. Can't the pattern do this with everyone if it needs to get stuff done? Egwene wasn't a Ta'veren.

 

Does being Ta'veren make them malleable enough within the pattern to become easier to control? Does the aura of improbability around them make it easier for the Pattern to engineer scenarios?

 

Sorry, I always have infinite questions about Ta'veren. I need to know their limits in order to know why the pattern doesn't just engineer answers to everything it needs. And if it does then why I should believe the books have any tension whatsoever

[EmperorAllspice]

How does Padan Fain fit into the Pattern? He isn't with the Dark One, so how easy is it for the Pattern to predict him?

[Agitel]

...Why do Ta'veren need to exist at all? Now, I ask because, it's mentioned that a Ta'veren doesn't control their powers, their path is carved out by the Pattern and it actively seeks to railroad them down the path it want. Now, why does a person NEED to be a Ta'veren for the Pattern to do this? An answer to another question I asked earlier regarding the tower yielded the answer of Egwene being used by the Pattern to try and merge the White Tower back together. Can't the pattern do this with everyone if it needs to get stuff done? Egwene wasn't a Ta'veren.

 

Does being Ta'veren make them malleable enough within the pattern to become easier to control? Does the aura of improbability around them make it easier for the Pattern to engineer scenarios?

 

Sorry, I always have infinite questions about Ta'veren. I need to know their limits in order to know why the pattern doesn't just engineer answers to everything it needs. And if it does then why I should believe the books have any tension whatsoever

 

I think you have the concept reversed.  It's not that they need to be ta'veren for the Wheel to exert greater control, it's that when the Wheel exerts greater control over someone they become ta'veren. If you want limits, I think the Creator intended there to be free will in his universe, so he may have "programmed" the Wheel to exert minimal influence. Or maybe the Wheel is only capable of exerting a limited amount of influence and so can't direct everything.

 

 

How does Padan Fain fit into the Pattern? He isn't with the Dark One, so how easy is it for the Pattern to predict him?

 

I don't have a quote handy, but what I've read and seen repeated is that whatever happened to Padan Fain in Shadar Logoth (perhaps in combination with what happened to him previously by the Shadow) turned him into an anomaly, that he's a blind spot for the Wheel. He's kind of like Mr. Smith in the Matrix.

[mb]

I recall from somewhere that taveren are the Pattern's/Wheel's correcting mechanism; spun out to help re-balance the Pattern.  I do not remember where nor the exact words.

The exact people that become taveren;  I do not know all the factors for that.  But Robert Jordan told that infants do not become taveren.

[Agitel]

Ta'veren are corrective, but they aren't spun out intentionally. The Wheel chooses likely candidates. Heroes are spun out intentionally, but they aren't always ta'veren or directed by the Wheel. Rand is both.

[Randslosthand]

Good Evening fellow Ladies and Gentleman of the WoT Series.

I have always kept my distance to the Forums of this website, as I have found out on numerous occasions people have died and things have happened that I have not read of. TO be succinct, I am currently reading A Knife of Dreams and I am extremely frustrated at the endless possibilities that could have been put into action to prevent or save a certain someones left body part. Balefire or at least a mention of a Ter'angreal would keep me happy, but I just want to know. Will the DR get this left body part back in future books? 

[jedman67]

RAFO

[EmperorAllspice]

so was balthamel killing aes sedai in crossroads for actual reasons? (like keeping relationships with Ash'aman from getting off the ground) or is he just throwing a tantrum?

[Agitel]

so was balthamel killing aes sedai in crossroads for actual reasons? (like keeping relationships with Ash'aman from getting off the ground) or is he just throwing a tantrum?

 

Good question. Balthamel was a known womanizer in the Age of Legends, and I wonder if that extended into very nasty, serial killer/rapist like habits... I don't know if it did. Hey may also have killed them for more practical reasons, too. Anyone have an answer?