Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[Knivy]

Which is why I said "As long as you can see the weaves" :)

 

And thank you, thats what I thought.

[Asmodeanisdemandread]

When the characters of the light talk about the forsaken prior to his appearance why do they never mention Demandred? That seems to be deliberate to me but maybe I missed his name some where.

[Finnssss22]

When the characters of the light talk about the forsaken prior to his appearance why do they never mention Demandred? That seems to be deliberate to me but maybe I missed his name some where.

 

Demandred is mentioned along with Aginor, Lanfear, Balthamel and Ishamael by Moiraine in tEotW-42.

[Asmodeanisdemandread]

Got a quote by chance? I believe you just wanna be sure

[yoniy0]

Got a quote by chance? I believe you just wanna be sure

"Had I known after the first such, I might have been able to... There has not been a Dreamwalker in Tar Valon for nearly a thousand years, but I could have tried. Now it is too late. Each time the Dark One touches you, he makes the next touching easier for him. Perhaps my presence can still shield you somewhat, but even then... Remember the stories of the Forsaken binding men to them? Strong men, men who had fought the Dark One from the start. Those stories are true, and none of the Forsaken had a tenth of the strength of their master, not Aginor or Lanfear, not Balthamel or Demandred, not even Ishamael, the Betrayer of Hope himself."

[Hagazussa]

In one of the books Cads have a Sea Folk Windfinder in tow, well the party is going traveling from a barn, the Windfinder is not allowed in until the portal is already up and she think to herself that she would have liked to lean the weave but she can not, that one can not learn how to raise the sail of a ship from watching it already up. Now off course different channelers do things in different ways so some might be able to learn a weave from seeing one already up, but that Windfinder at least could not. Here from book 9 chapter 23:

 

Shalon would have given much to see how that weave was done, even if it had meant being near Cadsuane, but she had not been allowed into the stableyard until the gateway was complete, and seeing a sail spread on the yardarm did not teach you how to set a sail much less make one.

[Barid Bel Medar]

That in itself is a curious quote, an interesting little piece if anyone is interested in that kind of triva.

 

In EotW only those 5 Forsaken are mentioned. 3 of them because they were actually in the book (Ishamael, Aginor and Balthamael) and then Lanfear and Demandred.

 

All of the others are only mentioned when they appear, or when one of the characters stumbles into their domain or upon their plans ala. Sammael, Rhavin.

 

Ishamael (who, while he appeared, we did not know it was him first time round) and Lanfear have turned out to be the two most important Forsaken in the series. What to make of Demandred's random mention in EotW, when we don't get a sentence from/about him until LoC, when he actually appears?

 

If you are like me, you would think it was Foreshadowing by RJ. As mentioned, excluding Aginor and Balthamel, who were directly involved in EotW - thus the obligatory mention - the other 3 are seemingly "random" mentions. We can semi-exclude Ishamael, as he was actually posing as the DO, but we are not supposed to know that until tDR. So Ishamael and Lanfear went on to become two of the most important Forsaken in the series. I would say this is Foreshadowing that Demandred was the third of the most important Forsaken, Foreshadowing of what was to come.

 

You could also say that he was mentioned just so that the fans knew he even existed, considering his considerable absence for most of the series. However, at the time EotW was written, RJ had planned it to be a much shorter series, so you would conclude that we would have seen a lot more of Demandred if it was - say - 6 books. Thus, the only reasonable conclusion you can reach is the former, a Foreshadowing of the 3 most important Forsaken.

[mb]

Why would components that move be impractical?

 

Why would armor need to be flexible? Just how flexible is an iron/steel breast plate? If flexibility is necessary, scale armor and custom crafted interlocking metal bands for joints would rectify that problem.

One reason for the flexibility of armor is so that it could be easily put on and took off. Another reason is so that the person inside could easily move.

 

Moveable components would be impracticable because cuendillar is immobile (and inflexible).

 

One thing about cuendillar is that the weave turns each connected piece into cuendillar.

Examples from the books::

-the two connected cups

-both chains at the ends of Tar Valon.

 

Another note about cuendillar::

The Guide tells that few things were made into cuendillar during the Age of Legends.

[Asmodeanisdemandread]

That in itself is a curious quote, an interesting little piece if anyone is interested in that kind of triva.

 

In EotW only those 5 Forsaken are mentioned. 3 of them because they were actually in the book (Ishamael, Aginor and Balthamael) and then Lanfear and Demandred.

 

All of the others are only mentioned when they appear, or when one of the characters stumbles into their domain or upon their plans ala. Sammael, Rhavin.

 

Ishamael (who, while he appeared, we did not know it was him first time round) and Lanfear have turned out to be the two most important Forsaken in the series. What to make of Demandred's random mention in EotW, when we don't get a sentence from/about him until LoC, when he actually appears?

 

If you are like me, you would think it was Foreshadowing by RJ. As mentioned, excluding Aginor and Balthamel, who were directly involved in EotW - thus the obligatory mention - the other 3 are seemingly "random" mentions. We can semi-exclude Ishamael, as he was actually posing as the DO, but we are not supposed to know that until tDR. So Ishamael and Lanfear went on to become two of the most important Forsaken in the series. I would say this is Foreshadowing that Demandred was the third of the most important Forsaken, Foreshadowing of what was to come.

 

You could also say that he was mentioned just so that the fans knew he even existed, considering his considerable absence for most of the series. However, at the time EotW was written, RJ had planned it to be a much shorter series, so you would conclude that we would have seen a lot more of Demandred if it was - say - 6 books. Thus, the only reasonable conclusion you can reach is the former, a Foreshadowing of the 3 most important Forsaken.

 

That makes even more sense than my "he wasn't mentioned because he's important" idea. I always assumed his lack of mentioning was a foreshadowing of the fact we never know who/where he is.

I do agree he's one of the top three. His back story is one we hear most about after ishy and lanfear/Meirin.

[yoniy0]

Barid, stop trying to collect undeserved fame! Just tell us what you've been doing all of this time, we'll let you know if it's epic enough to justify the hype

[Finnssss22]

Why would components that move be impractical?

 

Why would armor need to be flexible? Just how flexible is an iron/steel breast plate? If flexibility is necessary, scale armor and custom crafted interlocking metal bands for joints would rectify that problem.

One reason for the flexibility of armor is so that it could be easily put on and took off. Another reason is so that the person inside could easily move.

 

Moveable components would be impracticable because cuendillar is immobile (and inflexible).

 

One thing about cuendillar is that the weave turns each connected piece into cuendillar.

Examples from the books::

-the two connected cups

-both chains at the ends of Tar Valon.

 

Another note about cuendillar::

The Guide tells that few things were made into cuendillar during the Age of Legends.

 

The best option, simplest and the fastest IMO is to make medium round shields with about a 2-2.5 foot diameter.

A blacksmith could hammer the iron almost paper thin and he wouldn't even have to attach the strap holders himself, he would just have to make them separately and lay them on top so the holders would just fuse together when it's made into cuendillar.

[Whizbang]

You can transform the individual scales in scale armor seperately. Lay them all out on some wood or something, and walk down the line, transforming each scale. Then have a smith link them all together. So, the regular steel links hold it together, the cuellandor scales protect the links (and the wearer). Viola! A flexible scale armor able to withstand tremendous blows. 'Course, this may not be the most effective use of cuellandor. The body beneath is still pretty squishy. The armor may survive a large rock thrown from a catapault, but the body underneath would not. I think cuellandor armor would be a waste of effort. Instead, create shields, as Finnssss said, and either turn them to cuellandor, or wrap flows of air stronger than steel around the shield.

 

Cuellandor armor would only make sense as plates on a vehicle, like a tank. Something that holds its own structure. You could throw rocks, fire, balefire even, at a tank all day and it would keep coming. 'Course, all you'd have to do is tear up the ground in front of it so it cannot drive through to render it immobile and ineffective.

 

I don't think cuellandor has too many practical war-time applications. Yes, it cannot be destroyed, but it can be gotten around in some way or another. A cuellandor wall would stop battering rams and catapaults, but you can still scale it. You can still Travel around it, or just lob fireballs over it. Plus, when the war is done, and the population grows, you cannot dismantle it and expand. Cuellandor only makes sense when the thing you do not want destroyed is the object your are transforming. Like the Seals. Like the Domination Bands (you don't want the male channeler to destroy them with the power somehow). Little things like silverware are harmless novelties as cuellandor. People can show them off and brag about how rich they are, and yet forks and knives will always be needed, easily portable, and small enough that they can be buried easily in a Breaking like era, to clear the slate for the next turning of the wheel.

[Tensai0211]

Question from my re-read of aCoS, why don't Falion and Ispan seem to know about the Kin?

[herid]

@Tensai0211 What makes you think that they don't know about the Kin?

Edited November 21, 2012 by herid

[EmperorAllspice]

can someone tell me how Warders are meant to move? "Wolflike grace" How the hay does that work. All my imaginings just look silly. I can't picture it properly. Same with whenever the 7 foot Aielmen manage to hide themselves completely in inch high grass

[Whizbang]

How does Nichola and Ariana know Elayne and Nyn posed as Aes Sedai? They were only picked up in that town in Ghaeldean, on River Serpent. As far as I know, Nyn and Elayne had hid their rings and were pretending to be commoners to avoid Aes Sedai, Mogi, and Whitecloak notice. There was no reason for, or mention of, them resuming their Aes Sedai status on river Serpant, and a few reasons not to. The only reason that the boat owner let them dump his cargo and boss him around was because of Uno, Thom, Julian and the other men generally giving him menacing looks. Elayne channeled to speed the wind, but she did so discreetly, and Nyn tried to hide the little healing she did. So, the only point that Elayne or Nyn could have revealed themselves as Aes Sedai is on the short walk from the river to Salidar, and that would just be pure foolishness.

 

So, why is Ariana upset to learn Nyn is not a full Aes Sedai? Why does Nichola try to blackmail Egwene? There is no reason for them to know Elayne and Nyn posed as sisters. Suspect, maybe, but not know. The last time the posed as full sisters was in Tanchico. They then had to cross Amadicia, and so had to hide who they were. They did not resume the pretense at any point before Salidar.

[Tensai0211]

@Tensai0211 What makes you think that they don't know about the Kin?

 

There a viewpoint from Falion where they kill a reader while looking for the cache, it might simply be RJ was keeping them secret because its before Elayne and Nynaeve go to see Mat and get taken to the KIn. But when i was reading it i was wondering why they were killing Callie if they knew the Kin existed why they didn't infiltrate the Kin?

[Finnssss22]

@Tensai0211 What makes you think that they don't know about the Kin?

 

There a viewpoint from Falion where they kill a reader while looking for the cache, it might simply be RJ was keeping them secret because its before Elayne and Nynaeve go to see Mat and get taken to the KIn. But when i was reading it i was wondering why they were killing Callie if they knew the Kin existed why they didn't infiltrate the Kin?

 

Who says there aren't DF's among the Kin? Just because we haven't met any yet, doesn't mean jack.

They're in every other organisation.

[Tensai0211]

Who says there aren't DF's among the Kin? Just because we haven't met any yet, doesn't mean jack.

They're in every other organisation.

 

That's not what i'm talking about, i'm wondering why they're torturing and killing random Readers in Ebou Dar if they know there is an organisation based there that takes in runaways and cast outs.

[yoniy0]

Who says there aren't DF's among the Kin? Just because we haven't met any yet, doesn't mean jack.

They're in every other organisation.

Actually, I seem to recall that we have it in meta that there weren't any in the Kin present at Ebou Dar. I don't know about the rest.

[Tensai0211]

When Elayne and company meet with Nesta for the first time, Baroc the Master of Blades mentions " the doom of prophesy sailing the oceans" anyone know what this is? first thought was the Seanchan but now i'm wondering if it might be the red sails from the first chapter of ToM

[BFG]

How does Nichola and Ariana know Elayne and Nyn posed as Aes Sedai? They were only picked up in that town in Ghaeldean, on River Serpent. As far as I know, Nyn and Elayne had hid their rings and were pretending to be commoners to avoid Aes Sedai, Mogi, and Whitecloak notice. There was no reason for, or mention of, them resuming their Aes Sedai status on river Serpant, and a few reasons not to. The only reason that the boat owner let them dump his cargo and boss him around was because of Uno, Thom, Julian and the other men generally giving him menacing looks. Elayne channeled to speed the wind, but she did so discreetly, and Nyn tried to hide the little healing she did. So, the only point that Elayne or Nyn could have revealed themselves as Aes Sedai is on the short walk from the river to Salidar, and that would just be pure foolishness.

 

So, why is Ariana upset to learn Nyn is not a full Aes Sedai? Why does Nichola try to blackmail Egwene? There is no reason for them to know Elayne and Nyn posed as sisters. Suspect, maybe, but not know. The last time the posed as full sisters was in Tanchico. They then had to cross Amadicia, and so had to hide who they were. They did not resume the pretense at any point before Salidar.

 

Off the top of my head either Nicola or Ariana overhear a conversation that Thom is having and piece it together from there. Ariana is jealous of the friendship that Nyn and Elayne have with Birgette. Nicola blackmails Eg because she wants extra lessons and to move faster (as did the Supergirls when they were learning).

[Finnssss22]

Who says there aren't DF's among the Kin? Just because we haven't met any yet, doesn't mean jack.

They're in every other organisation.

 

That's not what i'm talking about, i'm wondering why they're torturing and killing random Readers in Ebou Dar if they know there is an organisation based there that takes in runaways and cast outs.

 

Oh, that.

They are also looking for the stash and I thought that's the info they were torturing them for.

[Finnssss22]

When Elayne and company meet with Nesta for the first time, Baroc the Master of Blades mentions " the doom of prophesy sailing the oceans" anyone know what this is? first thought was the Seanchan but now i'm wondering if it might be the red sails from the first chapter of ToM

 

I read that as just a Seafolk way of saying that prophecy is being fullfilled and a new breaking is coming.

I don't think it was intended to be literal.

Edited November 22, 2012 by Finnssss

[MrJade]

How many Aes Sedai were there at the height of their power? When was their height of power? (Pre-Trolloc Wars, during, just after, before Hawkwing?) If it wasn't Trolloc Wars, what were their numbers?