The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[Aleron688]

I just thought of something, maybe its relevant or maybe not.  When does Vanin first show up?  Its mentioned numerous times in passing about Vanin's riding skills and how he rides so much better than his girth would attribute to.  I'm wondering if Vanin is the "thing" and he turns out to be a Forsaken in disguise or someone in disguise.

 

He is not a forsaken in disguise.  we have ruled out everyone except Demandred, and we know that we have not seen his alter-ego.  Therefore it can't be him..

 

but as to what all his skills mean....... IDK

[blackjon]

I just thought of something, maybe its relevant or maybe not.  When does Vanin first show up?  Its mentioned numerous times in passing about Vanin's riding skills and how he rides so much better than his girth would attribute to.  I'm wondering if Vanin is the "thing" and he turns out to be a Forsaken in disguise or someone in disguise.

 

i think it unlikely for many reasons, but most of all for his fawning over Elayne. most of the forsaken are accounted for and i cant see Demandred doing it, even for a cunning scheme.

 

i don't even think he's a darkfreind, no real hints of it

[lillcheese]

How about the Aiel prophecy? that if they ever fail AS again, the AS will destroy them. Has this been discussed much?

 

This occurred to me as well.  I haven't seen a discussion on it per se, but then again I cannot claim close to the knowledge of the boards as some folks around here.

 

I just remembered, there might have been a mention of it in TGH.  I seem to recall the Aiel Ingtar & co mentioned it when Verin was revealed as AS.

 

I vote for Mat's hat.

[Aleron688]

I'm pretty sure there was mention of it as early as TGH.

 

as for mat's hat... you people are all nutz :P

 

I mean... c'mon... what could the hat POSSIBLY mean?

[Auld Manriva]

A hat is a hat and that is that

Unless yer as crazy as Clancy's Cat

Our dear Lord Mat, has that fine hat, just to shade his hard young head

 

I asked Lord Mat about the hat

He smirked said nuttin cause he's a brat

Then he got up and tipped his hat, then left shaking his head!

[Stevros]

I haven't read all the pages of this thread so don't know if this has been suggested. And I'm not sure this hasn't been discussed before. It occurs between books 4&6.

 

At the end of TSR Fain heads to retrieve the dagger from Tar Valon. Next time we see him he is speaking to Elaida privately; she is suspicious yes, but what was he doing talking to her and why did the discussion. Why is he glad that she is Amyrlin not Siuan.

 

As Fain is drawn to the dagger and can feel its location why does he bring notice to himself and not only presenting himself to the Amyrlin, but having private meetings with her also. I can see Elaida's point of view in trying to get info, but what does Fain get out of it?? I don't think we know yet, but we do know that Mordeth was very good at manipulating political leaders into doing what he wanted.

 

I think this theory also has some merit in the fact that now there is a change in leadership in the Tower one or two things set in motion may come.

 

That being said I won't say its a bulletproof theory as I haven't researched it that much detail so feel free to shoot it down. One thing I will say is that on here people are looking at big things that happened in the books like meeting Aiel, surely the focus should be on small things that may be overlooked, like a seemingly offhand comment; most characters have been discussed to death.

[Auld Manriva]

I noted that meeting too. My thought was why would he show up to talk with Siaun? She'd have imprisoned him poste haste. He thought Elaida would be much easier to bend to his will as he thought her "hard but brittle" easily broken. What he wanted out of it was access to the Towers' corridors and spaces. WHICH... he did gain.

 

I don't think Fain is it.

[DemandredFO]

As for Mat's hat and some people being nuts, remember Mat is Odin so his hat could have meaning and as noted many times; it was from a darkfriend with a rogue foresaken.

[Jong]

Not sure Slayer would be involved in the rescue, involved in the action by attacking the rescuers possibly.

 

Slayer and the ToG.. That's an interesting question. It seemed to me to be something that was in a way glossed over or the fact that he could go in not expanded on in that passage.

The ability to do that seems pretty unique. OR is Finnland part of TAR? Has it been discussed to death here and elsewhere?

 

The ability to physically enter TAR is deemed dangerous by most all people not gone over the edge actually doing it. Some of the Forsaken seem to use it to travel without gateways, or maybe it was just Rahvin, and Slayer most assuredly does. Rand has physically entered once or what, twice now? Eggy has once and I think Perrin too or to some degree he does unless he gets outta control in the wolf dream.

 

I don't seem to recall this being anything that keeps happening in subsequent books though. But if Rand somehow learned to use it more effectively, wow.. that would conceivably be an important tool/ability. Waitaminute... didn't he fight Ishamael the first time in TAR?

 

By involved I meant more along the lines of involved in trying to stop it. Mat vs. Slayer wopuld be a good fight.

 

In TSR Ch 28 We see Slyaer in TAR Perrin chases him to the ToG then he vanishes. Hopper appears and tells Perrin that Slayers is in TAR in the flesh and that both Salyer and the tower are evil.

 

Then Bridgett appears and says that Slayer has fled into the tower, but she warns Perrin not to enter as it is 'all but impossible' to return from and that it leads to finn land.

 

It jsut seemed strange that when we first seem him he imediatly run to the tower and disapears. Why did he go to the tower at that time? Slayer obviously know how to get into the tower. It seems he has been there before and he enters with out apparent concern for how to get out, even though we are warned that exit is nearly impossible.

 

Ch 28 in TSR seems to occur while Rand and Mat are in Ruhiean. We never find out how Mat ends up hanging there. Perhaps Slayer was summoned by the finns to take care of the body and thats how Mat ends up hanging there with the spear.  

 

Perhpas Slayer uses the tower as some sort of base or retreat. We are told that both the tower and slayer are evil, its possible that the finns are actually shadowspawn or evil in some other way. So far the only group we know that can order slayer are the chosen. If Slayer actually did take care of Mat for the Finns that might imply they are in cahoots with the shadow at some high level.

 

Perhaps Slayer intended to lead Perrin there so Perrin would become traped inside, not knowing that Bridget and hopper would warn him away.

 

Perhaps Slayer was just going to the finns to ask his own questions.

[analyticalkeys]

I'm pretty sure there was mention of it as early as TGH.

 

as for mat's hat... you people are all nutz :P

 

I mean... c'mon... what could the hat POSSIBLY mean?

 

If you read Mistborn, then you'll know that this theory is not as crazy as it seems.

[Aleron688]

I'm pretty sure there was mention of it as early as TGH.

 

as for mat's hat... you people are all nutz :P

 

I mean... c'mon... what could the hat POSSIBLY mean?

 

If you read Mistborn, then you'll know that this theory is not as crazy as it seems.

 

read it and still think it is nothing like some lousy earings :P

 

you forget that it was already arranged BEFORE BS took over the book. I don't think it was Jordan's style to do something like that. IMHO, the hat is just a symbol of a turning point in his character, nothing more.

[BenPatient]

not just before BS took over WoT....before BS had published anything at all!

[ohaitharguiz]

BELA PUT ON MAT'S HAT, AND TOGETHER THEY SCHEMED UP A PLOT AND KILLED ASMODEAN. THEN, THEY MET UP AGAIN AND WENT TO GRANEDAL"S CASTLE AND DID THE COMPULSION, SO SHE IS REALLY ALIVE. You see guys, I just figured out the WoT.

[Auld Manriva]

Um hmm.. Bela plainly, as everyone knows, possesses opposable thumbs and could easily grasp Mat's hat and place it on her noggin.

[eflynn]

I thought I saw someone mention these earlier but the thread has grown too long to double-check.

 

If I were a betting fellow, I'd put my money on the big thing being previously mentioned in the earlier books as either being Min's viewing of Logain being destined for greatness or the prophecy that stated (paraphrasing here) he who pulled Callandor out from the stone would follow after (which we know now to be Narishma).  You guys can check the timing to see if these happened in the right timeframe and tell me if I'm wrong.  Either way, both these guys seem to be destined to play a big role in the coming future. 

[Bob T Dwarf]

Um hmm.. Bela plainly, as everyone knows, possesses opposable thumbs and could easily grasp Mat's hat and place it on her noggin.

 

Phaw!  Bela dunt need no opposable thumbs.  She's the strongest and most deft channeler in WoT.  An instant's work with a flow of air and she can put that hat anywhere.

[analyticalkeys]

I thought I saw someone mention these earlier but the thread has grown too long to double-check.

 

If I were a betting fellow, I'd put my money on the big thing being previously mentioned in the earlier books as either being Min's viewing of Logain being destined for greatness or the prophecy that stated (paraphrasing here) he who pulled Callandor out from the stone would follow after (which we know now to be Narishma).  You guys can check the timing to see if these happened in the right timeframe and tell me if I'm wrong.  Either way, both these guys seem to be destined to play a big role in the coming future. 

 

But, he said the big thing was something that wasn't discussed a lot.. both of those topics are discussed at LENGTH all the time.

[lillcheese]

You know, it wouldn't have been impossible for Lanfear to add some special powers to that hat.  At worst, Melindra could let her into his tent to mess with it.  A small piece of metal to hold a ward/something could be slipped into a hat pretty easily I think.

 

On a side note, I always had a feeling that Logain's glory would be the result of a body swap between him and Rand. 

[NetSlider]

You know, Venin might actually be a part of it. I mean the man is a very good thief but we never really see him in the fight. But we do know that in the Rahad (spelling?) men avoid his and Lan's eyes. also Mat thinks at one point that Venin is so close to Elain that people may mistake him for her warder. venin also is really almost "in your face" with nobles, which is not a commoner thing (beside thief catcher; not taker). so Venin is a dark figure that we know almost nothing about. he of course is not a DF, or at least we have no reason to think that, but he is very different. maybe he was a warder? or maybe no. his affection for Elain though hints at some connection to the lion throne. anyway, he is a significant character that is somewhat mysterious and that was not discussed at length. also because of his position in the plot he may indeed be a part of some big revelation.

[NetSlider]

PS. I've just checked encyclopedia http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/characters/uz/index.html and he is not even there...strange. or maybe i'm just looking in the wrong place.  :)

[Auld Manriva]

PS. I've just checked encyclopedia http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/characters/uz/index.html and he is not even there...strange. or maybe i'm just looking in the wrong place.  :)

 

Looking in a hole when he was in a tree mos... no his sack o'suet butt couldn't climb a tree I don't reckon... anyway

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/characters/c/chel_vanin.html

 

*Vanin to me has always just been a normal guy. A character created in opposition to the "normal" image of a "Ranger" or in WoT's case Warder. He has all the tracking skills and likely some fighting skills too, though like any horse thief/smuggler/poacher worth his salt, he does not display them until he has no other way out. Fat and sloppy he looks a dolt on a horse but the way he sits his saddle (the way he rides) is efficient and effective. He's smart, observant and has common sense in abundance. Yer normal run of the mill un-caught scoundrel. He's not in a nobles face, but he does not kow tow to one either unless they've earned his respect and loyalty. He's a Queen's man and Elayne is his Queen's daughter.

[Red Hand Man]

Ok, I've read about 18 of the 25+ pages so far.

 

I see the best candidates being:

 

1.  T'a'R need by Nynaeve/Elayne

2.  Mat's hat

3.  Forkroot (not sure how much this has been discussed and not sure how much of a lurker BrS is)

 

Also, I disappointed myself by inadvertently semi-spoiling a big Mistborn secret.  Still looking forward to the rest of the series (I'm on page 139 of the paperback version of Mistborn).  <sigh>  That's what you get for reading message boards :)

[FortySix]

taim's escape.

 

thom learning the names of the sisters who gentled owyn.

 

isn't the ways changing somehow as well?

 

 

As for mat's hat. It's a great idea and the best I've read so far but the quote from BS lead me to believe that this was an ongoing event, not a thing.

 

This whole topic is great fun to do while we wait for the next book.  :)

[lillcheese]

I'm working on my post TGS re-read, on book 3 now.  I just finished the chapter where Rand slaughters a party, led by a woman, who wants to share his campsite.  After they're dead, he lines up their corpses kneeling before him.

 

It occurred to me that I don't recall him ever moaning about killing that woman, how he can't put her name on the list.  And then I realized, I don't think he starts the list until book 4 or later anyway.

 

That would seem to be an obvious "thing," that has been growing over the course of the books.  I haven't been lurking around forever, so I'm not sure how much discussion it's gotten.  How much analysis has there been of WHY he suddenly can't kill women?  I vaguely recall someone discounting it as a simple oversight. 

 

Thoughts?

[Jareth Bixx]

What of the big three themselves? Rand, Mat and Perrin. At what point was it that they all went their own merry ways? It seems as though their seeing colors and having visions of each other has been going on for a while. And has become more prevalent, or at least, the images clearer. Is the fact that they have been physically separated for some time, yet feeling ever more and more drawn toward each other more significant than we may have previously thought? Is it possible that this could also tie into the three become one prophecy?