Questions/Theories Answered or New Tidbits Added (Full Book Spoilers)

[SinisterDeath]

I don't believe you can dismiss a 'prophecy' being fullfilled for being to 'nebulous'.

 

 

As the plow breaks the earth shall he break the lives of men,

and all that was shall be consumed in the fire of his eyes.

 

Well, look at the prologue its 'generic' yea, but its virtually been fullfilled.

Farmers turning into soldiers, everything that 'was', has been consumed by his motive to win the last battle, and he does so with 'fire in his eyes'.

 

And it shall come to pass, in the days when the Dark Hunt rides,

when the right hand falters and the left hand strays,

that mankind shall come to the Crossroads of Twilight,

and all that is, all that was,

and all that will be shall be shall balance on the point of a sword,

while the winds of the Shadow grow.

 

The Dark Hunt 'is' riding. We see that witht he MASSIVE pack of hounds, and the 'super-dark-hounds'

Right hand = mat, Left hand = perrin. (Or logain/Taim)

The crossroads are simply metaphorical.

Everything is/was (The very pattern) is balancing on the tip of a sword.

And the shadow is most definatley 'growing'. ;)

 

Not every 'prophecy' has to be in your face, 'blunt'. Not every thing in them are going to be 'real', but rather metaphorical.

[lillcheese]

I don't believe you can dismiss a 'prophecy' being fullfilled for being to 'nebulous'.

 

Not every 'prophecy' has to be in your face, 'blunt'. Not every thing in them are going to be 'real', but rather metaphorical.

 

It's not that I dismiss it, I'm just not willing to say that I am certain it has been fulfilled.  Until I read TGS & the full KC, I thought

 

Fortune rides like the sun on high

with the fox that makes the ravens fly.

Luck his soul, the lightning his eye,

He snatches the moons from out of the sky.

 

had been fulfilled.  Now I'm quite certain it has not.  And, my error was STILL based on something that seemed at the time to be very specifically fulfilled.  I grant the nebulous stuff has probably occurred.  But what do I know?  Maybe there will be a more literal fulfillment later on.

 

ETA:

 

I almost put the italics on the Dark Hunt.  I was wondering though, wouldn't the wolves know when the Hunt has begun?  The fact that dark hounds have been used doesn't necessarily mean that the Hunt has started.

[SinisterDeath]

I almost put the italics on the Dark Hunt.  I was wondering though, wouldn't the wolves know when the Hunt has begun?  The fact that dark hounds have been used doesn't necessarily mean that the Hunt has started.

 

Actually I believe Hopper or one of the other wolves told Perrin that the 'hunt' has begun, talking about the massive darkhound -packs- going around. (whatever happened to them?)

Someone whos re-reading that specific book with the super-dark-hounds and the -massive- packs might want to confirm this, but I'm fairly sure someone, or some-wolf told perrin that the dark hunt has -begun-.

[Llanedern]

I've read most of the stuff in this thread, and I can't believe that this hasn't been posted yet. (If it has...whoops!)

 

In chapter 38, "News in Tel'aran Rhiod", Egwene lets need direct her in the dream world. She is taken to a Tuatha'an camp. I initially read over this very lightly. But in thinking of things that were new to the book, this kept popping back up in my head. Why would need direct her to the Tinkers? What is so important about them that Tel'aran rhiod itself is heeding their call to arms? (yes I get the irony of my last statement...the Tinkers and all)

 

So what do you guys think? I think that Loial and the Tinkers are going to rediscover the Song and that will help seal the DO's prison. I think that Loail singing to the Greenman's tree corpse will be a HUGE deal in their storyline. Now...I understand that this may be horribly wrong, so be gentle. Discuss...

[coteaz]

I personally dont think that the song will be rediscovered, because it was a creation of the AOL and it will not come again this side of the wheel turning. And i think that egwene went to the tinkers camp because thats where rand was before he went into ebou dar. or would be. Because the world NEEDs the dragon reborn.

[Vorkia]

 

What was exalted is cast down; what was cast down is raised up.

 

Isn't this the referring to AS (What was exalted is cast down) and Asha'man (What was cast down is raised up)? 

 

AS are no longer viewed in awe and are being treated more and more like people as the books progress and being cast down among us mere mortals.  While men who can channel were once feared and cast down, are rising in power with the Black Tower.

 

IMHO this part of the prophesy has been filled as well.

[Bob T Dwarf]

I've always thought that this referred to Elaida and Egwene.

[AvroChris]

I've read most of the stuff in this thread, and I can't believe that this hasn't been posted yet. (If it has...whoops!)

 

In chapter 38, "News in Tel'aran Rhiod", Egwene lets need direct her in the dream world. She is taken to a Tuatha'an camp. I initially read over this very lightly. But in thinking of things that were new to the book, this kept popping back up in my head. Why would need direct her to the Tinkers? What is so important about them that Tel'aran rhiod itself is heeding their call to arms? (yes I get the irony of my last statement...the Tinkers and all)

 

So what do you guys think? I think that Loial and the Tinkers are going to rediscover the Song and that will help seal the DO's prison. I think that Loail singing to the Greenman's tree corpse will be a HUGE deal in their storyline. Now...I understand that this may be horribly wrong, so be gentle. Discuss...

 

The Song was to do with helping things grow. I think this came from a similar vein as when Nynaeve and Elayne found the bowl of the winds; the world will need the song to feed itself as the dark one sucks the life out of the land. I'd be disappointed if the Song featured in the sealing of the Dark One's prison...it just doesn't seem to fit.

[Declan]

 

 

The Song was to do with helping things grow. I think this came from a similar vein as when Nynaeve and Elayne found the bowl of the winds; the world will need the song to feed itself as the dark one sucks the life out of the land. I'd be disappointed if the Song featured in the sealing of the Dark One's prison...it just doesn't seem to fit.

 

agreed. I believe a rediscovery of the song will happen. although...i do not think it will happen it the next book. i think it will be in the last one. Kind of as a symbol to show that the light is winning and so forth. We need to see some more of Loial and the Ogiers though in the next book and see what their decision is to tell for certain.

[Vulgir]

with the crops not growing in this book, and probably the largest army every amassed being compiled, i think the Song will be discovered, to help stuff grow again

[Mr Ares]

The unstained tower breaks and bends knee to the forgotten sign.

 

- So, first part is fulfilled & has been for a while.  Maybe Egwene & Rand will compromise.  She won't submit to Rand, but she will acknowledge the ancient symbol & reinstate the servant of all ethic to AS. As will Rand, so then they'd be equals.  That would hopefully stop every AS from thinking they have a right to control Rand.  I know most people think that this was fulfilled by the captured AS swearing to Rand at DW.  I can't agree - if any AS could fulfill this, then it was fulfilled once Moraine swore to Rand.

The reason people think it's DW is that they swore beneath the Banner of the Light, the ancient AS symbol. The forgotten sign, in other words.

[coteaz]

Yeah but it also says Unstained, they aes sedai that swore to him were anything but unstained, There was BA amongst them wasn't there?

[Mr Ares]

Yeah but it also says Unstained, they aes sedai that swore to him were anything but unstained, There was BA amongst them wasn't there?

The Unstained (White) Tower broke. It can't really happen again after the purge, so it must be fulfilled while there were still BA among them.

[coteaz]

yes but unstained would imply that a tower without dark friends would bend knee. Because a tower with dark friends would be stained.

 

[lillcheese]

The unstained tower breaks and bends knee to the forgotten sign.

 

- So, first part is fulfilled & has been for a while.  Maybe Egwene & Rand will compromise.  She won't submit to Rand, but she will acknowledge the ancient symbol & reinstate the servant of all ethic to AS. As will Rand, so then they'd be equals.  That would hopefully stop every AS from thinking they have a right to control Rand.  I know most people think that this was fulfilled by the captured AS swearing to Rand at DW.  I can't agree - if any AS could fulfill this, then it was fulfilled once Moraine swore to Rand.

The reason people think it's DW is that they swore beneath the Banner of the Light, the ancient AS symbol. The forgotten sign, in other words.

 

I'd forgotten about the banner.  Still seems odd though.  They weren't kneeling to the symbol, but to Rand.  Plus, they are just several AS.  Even if they were on a mission from the Amyrlin, I think that only the Amyrlin herself kneeling to the banner/symbol would satisfy.

 

[alfie949]

People were mentioning that something apparently insignificant in books 4-6 was going to be important in ToM.  What if it is the time Mat and the Band run into a slaughtered Tinker caravan (LoC, ch 22) and there was a message saying "Tell the Dragon Reborn".  Could this be it?

 

 

[Ashaman DeRouge]

The Unstained tower I thought referenced the fact that the tower was split but not any sisters where killed, or at least very very few. IE the Tower itself isn't bloodstained.

 

I call fullfilled.

[supermanblue2001]

Demandred

 

We don't get confirmation of where he is however we do get some possible clues.

 

We know that Demandred is somewhere, but where? One of the few places left to him is Murandy or with the Borderlanders. I think we can eliminate the Borderlanders simply because I don't think he would compromise himself by entering Far Madding which is where the Borderland monarchs are currently residing.

 

Murandy, however, leaves us with some interesting possibilities. We know very little about King Roedran personally. We know that he is attempting to unite Murandy and that he did that in large part by hiring Talmanes and the Band of the Red Hand to scare lesser lords to his cause. In return for this service the Band was well paid and we find that Talmanes also received a gold tabac pipe. It's quite possible that Demandred has assumed the guise of Roedran or is more likely pulling Roedran's strings. What if a Finder were woven into the pipe?

 

We have learned from Elayne how a Finder works.

Finder:

    A weave of Spirit applied to an object that gives the weaver a sense of direction and distance to the object, much like the Warder bond. It will last for weeks on cloth or leather and indefinitely on metal.

 

This would give Demandred an easy way of finding Mat at a time of his choosing. An advantage that can't be understated with the last battle coming so soon. To make such a point of mentioning a tabac pipe, how it was acquired and combining that with our lack of knowledge about Demandred.... well I think it's certainly a possibility.

 

Definition of a Finder borrowed from encyclopaedia-wot.org

[Jemlin]

I've always thought that this referred to Elaida and Egwene.

 

Yah know, I never though about it like that...but it makes a LOT more sense. Or, it could mean both occurances.

[savadrin]

this book is full of awesome, and reminded me why i like certain characters so much.

 

egwene has always been my favorite female in the books, and she's certainly proven herself.

 

Mat i've always been kinda love/hate about, and he really didn't do much in this book to sway me either way. i hope to somehow see him either commanding the seanchan military might, or decimating them with cannons and forcing them to surrender to Rand. His humor and wit seemed kinda off to me in this book, almost more childish, but that just may be due do different writing styles of sanderson compared to RJ.

 

Nyneave i have always hated, and cadsuane, and the other wise ones except for amys. if i were in rand's shoes i would have balefired the lot of them by now, and to hell with them. it's taken 12 books for min's outburst about them thinking they can "make him" do anything, we'll see if they "see the light" or not, but i doubt it. IMO, Nyn deserves her grief when lan dies, just for being stubborn and obtuse.

 

Poor min. probably my favorite female character after egwene. she's becoming quite the philosopher though. i hope so see her and elayne and avi with rand for more than a half a paragraph(not a 4some, just them sorting stuff out now that he's sane again).

 

perrin i don't really like all that much anymore. never really did like faile after book 4.

 

Gawyn. probably the most screwed up guy in the books. he needs to get over himself. i hope he can find out his mother's still alive. he needs to give up on being the first sword for his sister, birgitte is more than qualified for that, and he can just stay and be egwene's warder.

 

verin's end made me /cry almost. did not see that coming.

 

/end excited just finished reading the book rant.

[Luckers]

New Tidbit: A collection of ter'angreal/a collection of ter'angreal designed to work together is called a 'paralis-net'.

[coteaz]

I was wondering if someone was going to mention that, i was reading it yesterday and noticed that semi called cadsuane's collection ter'angreal that.

[Luckers]

I wonder what 'paralis' means. Clearly its something specific--if the word 'net' was translated then paralis must be something that has no word in the modern language.

[Otarin]

My read on the paralysis net is that she was refering specifically to Cauds one ter'angeral that is able to disturb her disguise.  That ter'angeral basically disrupts all weaves within a certain distance of her.  Hence Paralysis net. 

 

Nyn and Mat's ter'angeral and perhaps the one in Far Madding could all be considered paralysis nets.  In a society where 10% of the population could gate anywhere they want to go they seem like a security measure.

 

 

[coteaz]

i wonder how you could counteract these ter'angreal that stop flows? i know cyndane does it when fighting alivia, but it was of screen, so i wonder how she actually accomplished this?