Perrin and Faile's Plotline (spoilers for the entire book)

[Stevros]

The meeting of Perrin and Galad is just too good not to have it happening from someones PoV; there is so much too it from the finding out of Morgase to Jaret Byar and Dain Bornhald dennoucing Perrin as a darkfriend, and his counterclaim of them not helping the two rivers when under attack of Trollocs. Anyone who thinks it will not happen is deluding themselves. My bet is PoV of Byar or Bornhald.

[Rocky_Outcrop]

I feel sorry for Perrin when I look at his relationship with Slantyeyes. See, like so many of the woman in the books (as displayed by bother RJ and BS) they have done a Chicago shuffle switching independence for lying and deceit.

 

Don't get me wrong, we all want our birds to have their own lives, not constantly fluttering around our heads and things but Faille's little water cooler group of spear ladies going about operating independently is not on - it just makes her look like a b****. To me, a strong independent and good looking guy I would seriously consider dumping her despite the love I would have for her when I found out about the secret group, the silly killing of a captured man against Perrin's express wishes, the lying about the event afterwards - I would punish her for every day she lied about it as is my right as the abused party in a relationship - I would be incredulous too at finding out how my wonderfully strong minded wife had gotten stockholm syndrome.

 

Nothing much to do with anything in this thread here just wanted to let you know my opinion on it. As the person said earlier about resenting her if I was big perrin i'd resent her too - why - because she loves him Because he is who he is - slow to speak, considerate, loyal bla bla bla - he loves her because she is edgy, smart, loyal, beautiful crap like that. If she is going then to start taking the things in his character and using them to protect her from the lies she holds behind his back then she is worth resenting indeed. This sort of thing happens all the time in real life relationships and Perrin would be alright if he did a Rand and exiled her from sight for a couple of months to let her know she can't be getting on like that.

 

You might think I am being harsh, I think she is the one with the wits, the vision and the ability to better understand human relationships - it is therefore more her responsibility to turn things to the right than his and she is doing crap all about it. Perrin damn near makes out its been tough to even make love to her and she is in the mean time all cut up about him killing her captor.

 

I don't know why anyone likes her.

[striker]

I disagree, if  complete Rand and Egewene story arcs can be fit into TGS then complete Mat and Perrin story arch's can be fit into ToM.  Besides how long could the ToG arc really be.  I say eight chapters at the most.   One chapter of arriving at and getting into the ToG.  2-3 chapters of their trials in the ToG.  1-2 chapters of dealing with the Finns and securing Moirain's freedom.   1-2 chapters of escaping the ToG and Moiraine expressing her gratitude ( and I think she will be big enough to do so).  However they do it I hope its pretty evenly split between Mat and Thom POVs.  Maybe a couple of Noal POVs too provided they wont reveal any deep dark secrets he might be carrying.  Of course Mat also still needs to get to Camyln and deal with Verin's letter.    Well, I won't say anymore at the risk of causing thread drift but the point is that there will be plenty of room for Perrin in ToG.

 

How long should be gathering the Seachan, finding the Shaido, and stagging the battle take?  As I recall it took 3 (WN, CoT, KoD)? books.  I'm not saying your wrong, just that I don't agree; as RJ was able to take some PoVs and really extend them beyond what he needed to do.  I'd estimate that when Thom, Noal, and Mat go into the tower they will find heavy resistance with a few breaks in the action for some of Mat's always found smart ass remarks, and then when they finally find Moiraine, she is going to start taking command away from Mat and cause everything to go haywire causing longer story for that POV

[kac_04]

The whole Faile killing Mesema was pretty cool and it helped make her look better. I wonder if the man in white for Berelains viewing from Min is going to be Galad?

[Stevros]

The whole Faile killing Mesema was pretty cool and it helped make her look better. I wonder if the man in white for Berelains viewing from Min is going to be Galad?

 

I thought that as soon as I found out about the man in white, though when they started chasing the Shaido I thought it may be a gaishan.

[Inara]

i hope berelain's love is galad, it would be perfect.

he is the only one good looking enough for her to worship him, and they are both royalty so no commoner concerns there.

it would tie the whitecloaks to rand through perrin and get berelain off his back.

 

my heart skipped a beat when rand saw perrin with galad, i have been waiting for ages for morgase to be revealed and galad is my first choice for the person who recognises her. he challenged and killed valda for raping and killing her, what will his conscience make him do here?

 

second choice would have been gawin (but i like him better right where he is)

 

on a side note, to me it is quite obvious that this book is written by another author, but i feel that this does not detract from the story/ experience in any way, in fact there is a freshness and enthusiasm that makes it extremely compelling. I miss RJ, but i dont hate BS.

[firstfishman]

Min's viewing of Perrin... A falcon and a hawk, both resting on his shoulders... I thought I read somewhere that the falcon was digging its talons into his shoulder and he didn't realize it... I don't have the books here with me, so I can't look back. Can anyone confirm of deny?

[Mr Ares]

The Hawk (Berelain) was trying to fasten a leash round Perrin's neck.

[Ogrelin]

I actually feel that Faile released Masema from the compulsion somone put on him, he used to be a proud warrior, and look what they turned him into...

[Shard]

I actually feel that Faile released Masema from the compulsion somone put on him, he used to be a proud warrior, and look what they turned him into...

 

Agreed.

 

There was that whole seeing a vision of the Dragon bathed in light and telling him what to do.

[Rufae]

I have always loved Faile and think she really showed her bad*ss'ness in this book.

 

Masema needed to be finished off and she took care of business.

 

As for the vigil for the fallen Aiel captors, it is classic Stokholm Syndrome. The captives sympathizing/having feelings for, the captors. It was totally understandable.

 

Also, anyone notice that Perrin is using Rand's logic/tactic with the wolves now? Instead of respecting Hopper and working with him, he only thought of how to use him as a tool to learn the wolf dream (and Hopper smacked him across the nose for it). 

[lordofsoup]

im concerned that we did not get anything about perrin in the later parts of the book, but then Tam,  who was with perrin suddenly appears with rand.  i think the time flow has been messed up for the next book.  we know that galad was with perrin, but then perrin gets ignored for the rest of the book then nynaeve goes and meets him, but it is not talked about.  the next book is going to have to back in time, and thats always confusing

[Kyndig]

im concerned that we did not get anything about perrin in the later parts of the book, but then Tam,  who was with perrin suddenly appears with rand.  i think the time flow has been messed up for the next book.  we know that galad was with perrin, but then perrin gets ignored for the rest of the book then nynaeve goes and meets him, but it is not talked about.  the next book is going to have to back in time, and thats always confusing

 

If you think about it for a secound this is'nt the first time in the WoT books that the story took place in two seperate time periods, i.e. The Great Hunt when Rand teleports the entire group to Falme they travel several mounths into the future but the rest of the plotlines just pick up where they left off a few chapters before.

 

Kyn

[Muad Cheade]

im concerned that we did not get anything about perrin in the later parts of the book, but then Tam,  who was with perrin suddenly appears with rand.  i think the time flow has been messed up for the next book.  we know that galad was with perrin, but then perrin gets ignored for the rest of the book then nynaeve goes and meets him, but it is not talked about.  the next book is going to have to back in time, and thats always confusing

 

You have to remember that it was originally one book that had to be split up into three. I expect ToM to bring the other characters up to speed and have the timeline stable by the beginning of aMoL.

 

We'll probably get Perrin's POV of meeting the Whitecloaks and Tam leaving and the same of Mat in Caemlyn.

 

However, that implies that Rand and Egwene's scenes will be mostly scarce until the storylines are caught up or towards the end because technically we already know what they're doing during Perrin, Mat  nd Elayne's plots.

[Smoke]

The whole Faile killing Mesema was pretty cool and it helped make her look better. I wonder if the man in white for Berelains viewing from Min is going to be Galad?

 

The bigggest problem i have with the Galad/Berelain relationship is that by the time Min had the vision of Berelain/man in white she had met Galad.  I know that maybe she didn't see the face. I mean if she had seen Galad as the man in white she would of recoginized him. from his describtions he is not someone you forget.

[Strykr017]

Perrin will probably meet with Galad early on in the next book, I think. The stuff that Rands sees (Perrin with Galad, Mat in Caemlyn) will have to occur fairly early on, since there's still a ton of stuff to cover after that goes on.

[The Watcher and Wanderer]

This was just kind of a random thought, but does anyone else think that Perrin is currently in Tear?  Perrin mentioned in one of his POVs that he needed to get back to Rand so when Nynaeve shows up to retrieve Tam and take him Rand why would Perrin not take the opportunity to travel to him as well?  It is unlikely that Nyn took Tam without Perrin knowing, Tam is the Captian General of the Two Rivers men and therefore would not just abandon them without his Lord's (Perrin's) permission.  Granted Nyn might give Perrin some answer like "This is urgent and I don't have time to hold a gateway open for an entire army" however once Perrin knew that Rand was is Tear he would only need to have Grady or Neald open another gateway.  So it only makes since that Perrin is now in Tear.

[tneva82]

The whole Faile killing Mesema was pretty cool and it helped make her look better. I wonder if the man in white for Berelains viewing from Min is going to be Galad?

 

The bigggest problem i have with the Galad/Berelain relationship is that by the time Min had the vision of Berelain/man in white she had met Galad.  I know that maybe she didn't see the face. I mean if she had seen Galad as the man in white she would of recoginized him. from his describtions he is not someone you forget.

 

Well the men in white in the vision could be figurative vision rather than image of Galad. So rather than seeing Galad around Berelain she just saw man in white. Or possibly not even men but just some picture which she interpreted as man in white.

 

Her viewings can be non-literal afterall. Howabout whole "darkness swallowing yellow sparks" or whatever she saw around Rand&co in first book? I bet that's not literally what happens but rather metaphor of Rand's struggle against DO.

[AuldGoldBeard]

The timing in the beginning of ToM is going to be similar as it was in CoT.  In the previous book, Rand's plotline extends (chronologically) well beyond those of Mat and Perrin, so the first chunk of the book is spent on catching everybody back up.  Hopefully that will only take up the beginning, instead of the entire book, as with CoT.

 

As for Perrin, I think there's more left for him to do than some people are saying.  We got hints about the importance of the Tinkers last book, and Perrin has always been the one tied to them, so I'm thinking he does something with the Tinkers this book.  Also, Min's viewing that Perrin has to be with Rand twice or bad things will happen is only half-fulfilled with Dumai's Wells.  If the second time is just TG, that will be weak.  I'm expecting one more event, probably with things going wrong in the Seanchan negotiations. 

 

There's going to have to be something big to have Tuon crack and pledge the Seanchan to Rand.  (Remember that she thought she was being accommodating by giving him an equal chair when they met, and she was only DotNM at that point.)  Her trying to chain/subject/kidnap him and having things go horribly wrong is just that sort of event.  We saw it happen at Dumai's, with the Aes Sedai bowing to Rand.

[AuldGoldBeard]

The timing in the beginning of ToM is going to be similar as it was in CoT.  In the previous book, Rand's plotline extends (chronologically) well beyond those of Mat and Perrin, so the first chunk of the book is spent on catching everybody back up.  Hopefully that will only take up the beginning, instead of the entire book, as with CoT.

 

As for Perrin, I think there's more left for him to do than some people are saying.  We got hints about the importance of the Tinkers last book, and Perrin has always been the one tied to them, so I'm thinking he does something with the Tinkers this book.  Also, Min's viewing that Perrin has to be with Rand twice or bad things will happen is only half-fulfilled with Dumai's Wells.  If the second time is just TG, that will be weak.  I'm expecting one more event, probably with things going wrong in the Seanchan negotiations. 

 

There's going to have to be something big to have Tuon crack and pledge the Seanchan to Rand.  (Remember that she thought she was being accommodating by giving him an equal chair when they met, and she was only DotNM at that point.)  Her trying to chain/subject/kidnap him and having things go horribly wrong is just that sort of event.  We saw it happen at Dumai's, with the Aes Sedai bowing to Rand.

[Durinax]

The timing in the beginning of ToM is going to be similar as it was in CoT.  In the previous book, Rand's plotline extends (chronologically) well beyond those of Mat and Perrin, so the first chunk of the book is spent on catching everybody back up.  Hopefully that will only take up the beginning, instead of the entire book, as with CoT.

 

As for Perrin, I think there's more left for him to do than some people are saying.  We got hints about the importance of the Tinkers last book, and Perrin has always been the one tied to them, so I'm thinking he does something with the Tinkers this book.  Also, Min's viewing that Perrin has to be with Rand twice or bad things will happen is only half-fulfilled with Dumai's Wells.  If the second time is just TG, that will be weak.  I'm expecting one more event, probably with things going wrong in the Seanchan negotiations. 

 

There's going to have to be something big to have Tuon crack and pledge the Seanchan to Rand.  (Remember that she thought she was being accommodating by giving him an equal chair when they met, and she was only DotNM at that point.)  Her trying to chain/subject/kidnap him and having things go horribly wrong is just that sort of event.  We saw it happen at Dumai's, with the Aes Sedai bowing to Rand.

I think that perrin, mat, and Rand are all going to go together to go confront the Empress at once, and the chick general will be there, and warn of perrins marshalling skills, and Rand will casually mention how he has 2 great generals under him (Bashere (is he one of them, I think so) and the little wolf). And they will work together for peace. But also Perrins going to be the one to convince gawyn to stop his hatin on rand by bringing galad and morgase to rands side.

[The Watcher and Wanderer]

The timing in the beginning of ToM is going to be similar as it was in CoT.  In the previous book, Rand's plotline extends (chronologically) well beyond those of Mat and Perrin, so the first chunk of the book is spent on catching everybody back up.  Hopefully that will only take up the beginning, instead of the entire book, as with CoT.

 

I agree and I think Brandon wrote the books this way for a very good reason.  In TGS gave us complete Rand and Egwene arcs and I suspect in ToM he will give us complete Perrin and Mat  arcs.  I Believe he did this so he could give us two complete story arcs in each book as opposed to four partial story arcs in each book.  I think he made a very wise decision, had he gone with the later option then TGS might very well have turned out to be another CoT. 

 

There is no reason why Perrin couldn't meet up with Galad very early in ToM.  Tam seemed to imply that they did have a few altercations in dealing with the White Cloaks so there should be plenty of story there.    I think that about half way through the book Nyneave will show up to retrieve Tam and then Perrin can get on to new business.  I don't think the all of ToM will be parallel to TGS because while Egwene's pre TG storyline seems to be tied up I think Rand still have some pre TG business to take care of, namely undoing some to the damage he has done.  He still needs to deal with the Borderlanders, fix Arad Doman and actually form a truce with the Seanchan.  Given their previous connections with the Seanchan I think Perrin and Mat will be insturmental in this. 

[Bellanoire]

 

Good to see Hooper back,  I do like the wolves.

 

Morgase and Galad meeting is going to be interesting.  An how Faile/Perrin are going to react to finding the ex-Queen of Andor as the maid.

 

Is it possible that Galad will excute Byar and the other one, for not helping during the battle at the Edmonds field.

 

oh i was thinking they where going to cause trouble not the other way around!! holy shit batman it totally flew past me!!!*rotfl*

 

 

i hope he straps the pair of them but they're not drakfriends and as long as they can get past the wolf thing they shpould be , well as ok as a whitecloak can be*l*

 

can just see the whole lot of the edmonds fielders lifting bows the second the whitecloaks show up, thats probably when morgags gets id'ed. running right onto the battle field to stop the showdown, edmondsfields have no love of whitecloaks*l*

[Bellanoire]

The whole Faile killing Mesema was pretty cool and it helped make her look better. I wonder if the man in white for Berelains viewing from Min is going to be Galad?

 

I thought that as soon as I found out about the man in white, though when they started chasing the Shaido I thought it may be a gaishan.

 

I still think its a gishain, Min personnal knew galad before she ever had that vision and if it was him she'd have known and said something, or at least hinted about it.

[jwillis7]

in response to people saying that they think it is going to be confusing jumping in time, i dont tink so.  We have seen ran in this book use his Visions to see where the others are and what is going on, what i see happening is we will get glimpses of Rand in ToM in Bandar Eban or Tear to give us a point of reference.  because, correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't Rand see mat in Caemlyn and then we got a chapter with him not there yet.  I dont think it is going to be that bad, and honestly i don't think we will see all of that Perrin stuff when he meats up with Galad and they find out about the queen, i mean we know it happens so why not just go from there instead of going back in time to tell us something we know.