Prologue, Chap. 1-50, Epilogue

[Beren]

Yeah, what Verin did was totally unpredictable.  I wouldn't be surprised if someone came up with an old post on usenet or something predicting almost exactly what happened....but before this book, that theory would have had no more validity than any of the other crazy Verin theories, because there wasn't evidence to back any of them up.

 

After reading TGS, I have been reading back over the Verin scenes and some of them are now downright scary. Some of the thoughts she has about stuff. We didn't realize it before, but wow... RJ really had been setting this one up the whole series.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Kreskin predicts:  The Verin storyline isn't the only one like this.

 

Jordan set up a number of things back in EoTW that haven't played out yet.  When they do finally play out there will be even more surprises.

[NetSlider]

Maybe completely out of subject, but I just got a copy of audiobook on itunes!!!!! I was looking to buy and download it for the last two weeks (and yet no one announced that itunes will have it at midnight). anyway, those of you who dont wanna wait till 9am you can get it. (ok, this came out like an ad but I actually HATE itunes :)) JUST WANNA SHARE MY JOY!!!!!!!!! FINALLY!!!!!!

[mattyh]

Yeah, what Verin did was totally unpredictable.  I wouldn't be surprised if someone came up with an old post on usenet or something predicting almost exactly what happened....but before this book, that theory would have had no more validity than any of the other crazy Verin theories, because there wasn't evidence to back any of them up.

 

After reading TGS, I have been reading back over the Verin scenes and some of them are now downright scary. Some of the thoughts she has about stuff. We didn't realize it before, but wow... RJ really had been setting this one up the whole series.

 

i remember her letter to rand in KOD when she left algarin's manor..advising him to listen to cadsuane, and reminding him that oaths of fealty mean nothing to a black sister >_<

then rand showed the letter to cadsuane, who responded with something like, 'a woman of many masks'

 

indeed.

[drunkengrizzly]

and everybody thought verin was going back to the tower to get the horn for mat...bummer

[MrWOTjunkie]

I HAVE FINALLY GOT MY HANDS ON TGS...WOOHOO!!!!!!!! (Sorry guys, couldnt help myself) Back in a day or two hehe

[Alghar Khan]

When can we start posting about TGS in the general WoT forums? Can we do it now?

[Terez]

@ Terez, While you are correct in what you say regarding the personalities/souls discussion, just because she is being stubborn or twisting words or whatever doesn't mean you should resort to insulting or demeaning her intelligence. While I can sympathize with being frustrated over years-long arguments, just let it go. It lowers your eyes to continue entertaining the futility of it, as sometimes people cannot be budged in their opinions, right or wrong.

Yay, a convert!  Sorry, but I have a hard time seeing past that tidbit.  ;D  As for 'entertaining the futility' - I've converted some people I thought I would never convert because I was persistent (and because I enjoy this debate a great deal).  As for insulting her intelligence....well, that's one of my character faults.  I am blunt and honest to a fault, and easily provoked.  It doesn't happen too terribly often, though... it's just an old bone with Isa (and a couple other people, but they don't post here).  That is pretty much how I am, take it or leave it. 

 

One hour and I get to finish the book!  Yay!

[Terez]

and everybody thought verin was going back to the tower to get the horn for mat...bummer

I didn't.  Didn't have any real solid ideas on where she went, but I was hoping it wasn't that, because I want Mat to go to the Tower!

[shinji]

so verin took the trouble to to meet mat,but no to give him the horn?then,why?and what rand of returning to far madding?

i won't have the book still next month(amazon didn't even send it yet...i know i' m pthetic)

a shamae B.S. didn't supress all of perrin useless chapter to concentrate only on mat:no only the the book would have bee much better but we coul have seen moiraine again!

[fikkie77]

The Horn is not with Verin, but somewhere in the White Tower. Verin might not even have known where it is.

 

Amazon hasn't sent it yet? They sent my copy.

[JenniferL]

When can we start posting about TGS in the general WoT forums? Can we do it now?

 

For the love of god no. Spoilers go on this board until everyone has had a chance to read it, including foreign countries where it hasn't been released yet. So at least another month.

[Luckers]

and everybody thought verin was going back to the tower to get the horn for mat...bummer

 

She did go to Mat first, and left him that lovely letter.

[Alghar Khan]

OK, since I can't gloat anywhere else...   ;D

 

She sent Verin. Fact. She did not intend to, but she did. As for the rest of the world, I think you'll find more people support the position that, at the very least, she might not have lied. You are part of a tiny, insignificant even, minority, which holds with the entirely unsupported and utterly unsupportable view that it is impossible for it to be anything other than a lie, which is wrong.

How much more fun in november (or whenever) when us insignificant ones becomes the significant ones. Speaking of unsupported, what support do you have for your claims? None! You're the unsupported one.

You'll be waiting a lot longer than just till November. Because it's never gonna happen. As for support, your theory rests upon the only possible meaning of "sent" requiring intent. Which is wrong. The dictionary does not support you. It has nothing to require intent. The way people use the word also does not require intent, because people will say that they sent things even when they did so unintentionally. Therefore, the word sent not requiring intent makes a nonsense of your point that that is the only possible meaning, so you are unsupported. The word sent leaves things open to multiple interpretations - requiring intent or not. So your absolutist position is ruled out at once. We have passages, already quoted, that are certainly possible to read as Moiraine sending Verin. We have Wotmania's mention of RJ statements from signings requiring Three Oaths for the Agelessness, which Verin has, and which appear to have support in the books, what with the successive tightening of skin arising from each Oath sworn. We have Verin's PoV in PoD Prologue, where she is quite specific in all her words, and everything she says is true, even when lies would be harder to detect than in this instance. Which doesn't make sense if she can lie. We have no reason to believe herself ever to have unbound herself. We have RJ's statements about falsehoods only being utterable with intent to deceive which cannot be taken to support you, and the books repeatedly making clear that AS are able to mislead with the truth quite freely under the First Oath. All the evidence supports me, not you. Nothing supports you. If you actually opened your mind and thought about it, you would see that inescapable truth.

 

Just keep saying it as loud as you can, Alghar.  Maybe stick your fingers in your ears too.  Tack a "lalalalala" on the end.

;D 

*Sings lalalalala while reading TGS*   ;D

 

 

[Casco]

The Horn is not with Verin, but somewhere in the White Tower. Verin might not even have known where it is.

 

Amazon hasn't sent it yet? They sent my copy.

Verin is(was) one of 2 who knows where the horn is hidden in the tower. Siuan Sanche is the only one now alive who know where it is. Maby she did tell Egwene where it is..dont know.

Amazone did send my copy to :)

 

I lissen to the swedish translation of the books for the 3rd time now, and i was a little chocked when i did hear that Verin did lie in the white tower...and it was Egwene who did hear it. It was when Verin was to explain about what the girls have done when they did "run away" 3rd book.. She did tell a clear lie to one of the AS before explaining to the Amyrlin, and Egwene did think about it.

So..she did realy tell 2 clear lies that is proof for her to be a BA. The first time about Moiraine sending her, and the second time to a sister in the white tower about what the girls have done.

[Ticondrius]

Alviarin knows where the Horn is too.  Remember the scene where she confronts Fain when he steals back the Dagger?

[Xarra]

I lissen to the swedish translation of the books for the 3rd time now, and i was a little chocked when i did hear that Verin did lie in the white tower...and it was Egwene who did hear it. It was when Verin was to explain about what the girls have done when they did "run away" 3rd book.. She did tell a clear lie to one of the AS before explaining to the Amyrlin, and Egwene did think about it.

So..she did realy tell 2 clear lies that is proof for her to be a BA. The first time about Moiraine sending her, and the second time to a sister in the white tower about what the girls have done.

 

I can't find this example...

[Diederichos]

I'll be getting the book tonight, but I cannot wait apparently. What happens with Ituralde and the Seanchan-Arad Doman stuff and what's with the 'Into Bandar Eban' chapter?

[fader6818]

Spoiler: The dedication is not to Harriet.

[Casco]

I lissen to the swedish translation of the books for the 3rd time now, and i was a little chocked when i did hear that Verin did lie in the white tower...and it was Egwene who did hear it. It was when Verin was to explain about what the girls have done when they did "run away" 3rd book.. She did tell a clear lie to one of the AS before explaining to the Amyrlin, and Egwene did think about it.

So..she did realy tell 2 clear lies that is proof for her to be a BA. The first time about Moiraine sending her, and the second time to a sister in the white tower about what the girls have done.

 

I can't find this example...

 

This is the bad thing about audiobooks..its hard to find this examples. i will try to find it. I hope its not a translation issue..i have the english books to so i can compare it when i find it.

[Xarra]

I've searched the book in that area & can't find anything that isn't strictly true... As far as I'm aware the only OBVIOUS lie pre-TGS is The Lie.

[foillion]

Longtime lurker, first time poster....Grendel punched in the face. Made me laugh really really hard.

[Mr. Micawber]

Well, I gotta say, it was pretty flaming nice to see that Rand doesn't need Graendal.

 

Apparently we got to see reintegration without any help. Moreover, may I tip my cap to Ms. Leigh Butler, because I'd have to say her view - the memories are real, but the personality is a construct - may not be the absolute truth, but it's a damn good approximation.

 

And frankly it made me tear up a little.

 

Also, after what Rand did, there had better be a scene like this one in the next book:

 

"I was a fool! I was an idiot, I was a pompous prat, I was a - a-"

 

"Ministry-loving, family-disowning, power-hungry moron."

 

"Yes, I was!"

 

"Well, you can't say fairer than that."

 

....

 

"I'm sorry, Dad"

 

 

Come to think of it, Rand's argument with himself is pretty reminiscent of Harry's tirade against Dumbledore in OotP.

[Mr. Micawber]

And Beren?

 

I'd have to say that the explanation Cadsuane uses is precisely the one I would give.

 

If the Big Guy wins, existence is wiped out, and frankly, that means all bets are off.

[ClubCaved]

Longtime lurker, first time poster....Grendel punched in the face. Made me laugh really really hard.

 

Aside from Mat's rant to Talmanes about women, the funniest, LOL scene is where Cadsuane realizes how to break Semirhage.

 

P.S. How distracted was I while reading TGS today? I tried to use my bread machine to bake a loaf without first putting in the kneading blades. It doesn't work very well. :)