Random thought on Cadsuane

[bjclinton]

So from everything that i've seen and read over the years on what Cadsuane will teach Rand, all generally accepted theories seem to point to one as the most popular: she will teach him to feel emotion again- pain, love, happiness, etc etc.

 

I know this might be a little far stretched, but the other day I was thinking and wondered: "what if she actually has to teach him something a little more specific to what he has to do to win the battle against the DO?"

 

Personally, I feel like thats what Moiraine will be doing again when she returns from the world of foxes and snakes (i suspect she's going to have some priceless piece of info to pass on, but i dont want to hijack my own thread here  8))....but a couple of stray thoughts:

 

Cadsuane is obviously full of surprises and knowledge. Is it even remotely possible that she knows how to access the TP? If so, could she teach Rand how to do so? I know......i'm reaching for straws here...but certainly being able to access the TP would make TDR alot more powerful.

 

We haven't seen a FULL circle of men and women yet (from what I can remember)....could she teach him how to manage the flows of a fully complete circle?

 

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. I'd really be interested in seeing other people's random thoughts as to what it could be.  (no answer is too crazy- hell, look at my random thought about the TP  ;D )

[Theandrin]

I've been thinking a lot lately if we will see a full circle during TG or not. I'm thinking that we very well may.

As for the TP, I believe that you are only able to access that with the DO permission.

[bjclinton]

 

As for the TP, I believe that you are only able to access that with the DO permission.

 

thats what I thought as well, but knowing that there is always a balance with the WOT, could that just be a lack of knowledge with the current age? could there be a way to use it? probably not, but worth at least considering maybe?

 

any other thoughts?

[cloglord]

Cadsuane has mentioned teaching Rand and the ashaman manners on several occasions.  While I don't think that it mean that she will teach them to stick out their pinky fingers while sipping their tea, I think that it means that she will do something that will teach them to respect Aes Sedai as a whole, or on the converse, perhaps some measure of humilty.  Right now, the ashaman largely are contemptuous of Aes Sedai and tend to be pretty full of themselves.  I think that concidering that Cadsuane has to teach Rand, and all of the ashamen, something, and that they won't like learning it, this would fit the bill.

 

In my opinion, the most likely way that Cadsuane would accomplish that would be to particiapte in the battle for the blacktower.  We know that Logain and Bashere seem to be in cahoots, and that Logain is aimed directly at Taim's faction in the black tower.  We also know that Cadsuane has been manipulating an unknown number of pet Aes Sedai towards some unknown end ever since her appearance in Carhien.  We also know that there are a number of sisters congregating in nearby camelyn, an ever changing number that seem to be filing through the Silver Swan with some regularity.  I think that this is an indicator that Cadsuane is organizing an army of unaligned Aes Sedai for the specific purpose of clearing out the blacktower.  if you consider her past history with channeling men, it seems pretty unlikely that she would drop plans for dealing with the blacktower just to focus soley on TDR.  And as an eyewitness to the cleansing, she is in a unique position to vouche for the relative safety of the non-taim ashamen now.

 

If anyone is interested in pursuing this line of thought, I'll be happy to go find the old thread were I did a much better job of citing specifics, and laying out the particulars.

[Majsju]

 

As for the TP, I believe that you are only able to access that with the DO permission.

 

thats what I thought as well, but knowing that there is always a balance with the WOT, could that just be a lack of knowledge with the current age? could there be a way to use it? probably not, but worth at least considering maybe?

 

any other thoughts?

 

The information we have about TP, including needing the DOs direct permission comes from the forsaken, ie the AOL. From what we have seen, the people in the third age does not even know TP exists, except for Rand, and he has what little he knows from LTT, again the AOL.

 

 

[World_of_Wheel_of_Time]

Just another random thought, I think Rand will pull something like he did with Moiraine... Distance himself away from her, or even explode at her... Somehow making everyone realize that he's gone mad!!!

 

Cadsuane: Chew with your mouth closed!!!

Rand: ...

Cadsuane: Elbows off the table!!!

Rand: ...

Cadsuane: Control your temper!!!

Rand: I CAN'T TAKE ANYMORE!!! YOU MOTHER@#$%ING B@#$H, I'M GOING TO @#$%ING KILL YOU!!!

Perrin: I won't let you kill Aes Sedai!!!

Rand: YOUR DEAD TOO PERRIN, I KILL ALL OF YOU!!!

[stoper]

So from everything that i've seen and read over the years on what Cadsuane will teach Rand, all generally accepted theories seem to point to one as the most popular: she will teach him to feel emotion again- pain, love, happiness, etc etc.

She'll teach him AND the ashamans something. As far as I know they don't have any problems with emotions. So that's a wrong theory.

I don't think it'll be something about the power. The guy has LTT in his head, why he'll need some crazy Aes Sedai? Even if she's 300 years old. It just looks stupid.

Something about the life I think.

Maybe she'll give to Rand a reason to die... to be away from her :P

Or she'll just keep disgracing Rand until Moiraine came and kick her ass.

[dlan4327]

She'll teach him AND the ashamans something. As far as I know they don't have any problems with emotions. So that's a wrong theory.

 

I don't know about that. As far as I can tell there are a fair few Ashaman who have problems with emotion. I mean that in the sense that they have trouble accepting authority and are pretty arrogant on top of being contemptuous  of Aes Sedai and anyone who isn't an Ashaman. Pretty much all of Taim's lot fit that bill.

[CUBAREY]

I think whar Caddy is trying to teach Rand and the Ashaman is humility in the literal sense of the word.  Teach them that while they are powerful channelers they are part of humanity. Not only respect for A.S. but respect for non-channeling humanity.  Look what good is winning TG if it is followed by a tyranny of arrogent Ashaman/A.S. Remenber thats not only the explaination she has given several times its the explainatin Verin (not exactly exactly an easy mark) accepted.

[stoper]

And how exactly did you expect this unscrupulous and arrogant woman to teach someone on humility? This is like me teaching you spanish without knowing it.

I still think she has her goals and they are far from your expectations.

[cloglord]

How did Moraine teach him anquish?  By using her knowledge of torture?  Nope, she did it by dying.  How did Elaida teach him claustriphobia?  Has she studied the phenomenon?  No, you can teach someone something that you don't know yourself, and accidental teaching is often the most effective.

 

That said, I don't agree that Cads is unscrupulous and arrogant.  Whould you call your Grandma arrogant for knowing more than you do?  She's only got 280 years of experience on Rand, but then again what could she know? ::)

[Mr Ares]

That said, I don't agree that Cads is unscrupulous and arrogant.  Whould you call your Grandma arrogant for knowing more than you do?  She's only got 280 years of experience on Rand, but then again what could she know? ::)

Completely true.

 

The one problem I have with the thing Cadsuane is supposed to teach (according to a viewing, not her intentions remember) being humility or some such is that it is supposed to be something she teaches all the asha'men, not just most unless Min misspoke. I'm not convinced that every single asha'man needs a lesson in humility. I have heard the suggestion that what she will teach is that they are not immune from madness now the Taint is gone, and I prefer this even if I am not wholly convinced. Any other suggestions?

[Duneflayer]

it could be something to do with linking

 

i know she linked with an Asha'mon in WH but i can't remember any other Aes Sedai knowing how to do that maybe she will teach all of them

 

if i'm an idiot someone say so plz

[aevogt]

I'll tie this one in with what will happen in AMoL.  What will she teach all the Ashaman that they don't want to learn?  What will be the key to defeating the DO?

 

Needlepoint.

 

None of them are going to want to learn.  Who would.

 

How do I back this up you ask?  

 

Who else does this kind of brain numbing activity.  That's right, Semirhage, that's who.   Mesanna even comments on it during a social hour.  How it's odd such a psucho as Semi would go for so mundane an activity.   Knitting, needlepoint, same coin, different denomination.

 

What is Cadsuane most interested in doing with Semirhage now that she's been captured.  Chat, that's what she wants to do.  I'll just bet I can guess what they "chat" about.

 

BLAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

 

[Tyrell]

the quotation, IIRC is something like

 

"Rand, she's going to teach you something, you and all the Asha'man, and I don't think you're going to like learning it"

 

I may be wrong.

 

The above quotation or possibly misquotation is why I'm favouring something like humility, humanity, respect, whatever <your virtue here> over something like linking or anything else that is specific and power-related.

[Paviel]

I don't know about that. As far as I can tell there are a fair few Ashaman who have problems with emotion.

 

The married ones, at least, had enough emotion to stay in touch with their wives.

 

I don't count Rand, since the decision to bond him Warder wasn't really his. But the married Asha'man had a choice. Even if it was their wives' idea to be bound like Warders to their Asha'man (which I highly doubt), the Asha'man could have refused to do it...

 

And I agree with you Tyrell; if it were power-related, the Asha'man WOULD want to learn it... Such is the nature of humanity...

[Mr Ares]

it could be something to do with linking

 

i know she linked with an Asha'mon in WH but i can't remember any other Aes Sedai knowing how to do that maybe she will teach all of them

 

if i'm an idiot someone say so plz

All the Aes Sedai and Asha'men at the Cleansing linked - including Rand, and I don't recall Cadsuane telling him how to do it. So, linking is out, because Cadsuane can't be teaching him something he figured out for himself. If this makes you an idiot or not is up to you, though. Also, I'm not sure if Cadsuane was in alink or not - she was commanding the defenders, and using her ter'angreal to pinpoint the Chosen, and there was a nearby circle using callandor, but I think she was alone.

[Davian93]

Also, I'm not sure if Cadsuane was in alink or not - she was commanding the defenders, and using her ter'angreal to pinpoint the Chosen, and there was a nearby circle using callandor, but I think she was alone.

 

I actually just reread WH and I'm 99% sure that Caddy was not part of a link.  She basically held up a shield over the hillside that Nynaeve and Rand were seated on with the aid of her angreal...as well as directing the attack as Ares has mentioned.

 

As for the Linking, that is something that Nynaeve and Rand went over together so I doubt Caddy had anything to do with it.  I also recall that there was a Brown present that knew how to link or perhaps it was the Green Merise Sedai that did it.

[elmis]

I'm thinking it's more of a 'life lesson', than how to do some skill or another. I'm in favor of the list Tyrell posted a few posts up. :)

[Ahaz Flagg]

I will weigh in on the side that says Cadsuane will teach Rand and the Asha'Men, Humility, laughter and to respect people.  The Asha'Men have nothing like the three oaths, they are all arrogant to the teeth. They are all so serious, even some Aes Sedai, have humor.

[Harmless Bandit]

I could see Cadsuane teaching the Asha'man that the Power doesn't make them superhuman, but Rand already seems to understand this, which in turn makes me unsure as to what they have to learn.

If it's humility, I hope Cadsuane will also remember to teach her fellow Aes Sedai that same concept, they seem not to know its meaning--except Moiraine and Verin, and a few others. As far as I am concerned, the Asha'man being a bit contemptuous with Aes Sedai could help flex their rigid minds.

[krelianzg]

I defintiely agree that not all the Asha'man need to be taught "laughter and tears". Logain, Neald, Grady, Hopwil, Narishma and others have all shown that they are very much human. 

 

Battle-hardened, to an extent, but none of them have been stupid enough to go Rand's route and run around singing "I am a rock, I am an island"...

 

Hell, even Dashiva demostrated more compassion and understanding than Rand has recently. Even if it was just an act, it was still more than Rand is currently capable of.

 

Caddy really has her work cut out for her with him.

[Harmless Bandit]

I honestly don't get it when people say Rand is as emotional as a rock. He has shown he can be quite compassionate. I don't deny that he has some issues to work on, but if he was as cold and heartless as people paint him, then I don't think there would be any hope left for him (or the world for that matter).

[stoper]

...

That said, I don't agree that Cads is unscrupulous and arrogant...

Hm maybe we have different understandings for these two words.

As far as I see she don't have any frinds, only tools. She act like she's smarter than all other and they are far beneath her level.

She held one Windfinder, Darlin and Caraline like a prisoners without any explanations.

When she was at Far Madding and met the counsels, the first words to two of them was: "I have heard things about you... There are standarts any Counsel shoud meet." Nice, every good friendship start with a little blackmail.

Looks verry unscrupulous and arrogant to me.

 

...Logain, Neald, Grady, Hopwil, Narishma and others have all shown that they are very much human. 

Battle-hardened, to an extent, but none of them have been stupid enough to go Rand's route and run around singing "I am a rock, I am an island"...

I don't think you can compare Rand with the others. None of them have Rand's responsibilities and duties, none of them actually matters for the worlds survival.

At the last books Rand became stupid worm who made many mistakes, but being hard and holding his emotions deep inside his heart isn't one of them.

 

I still can't see what's the big problem with Rand's emotions. He's not some crazy tyrant after all. He cares for the people.

[krelianzg]

Oh, I don't think too many people will argue that he cares about the people around him.

 

The problem is that he has convinced himself that those emotions are a liability.

 

His issue isn't that he can't relate to anyone on an emotional level, it's that he feels that he shouldn't allow himself to. He sees himself as both the weapon to be used at TG and the blacksmith that must forge the rest of the world into weapons as well.

 

His failure is that he doesn't understand that he can unite the world and stand ready to face the Shadow without trying to leave all his emotions and human sentiments behind.

 

This is what Cadsuane is trying to teach him. Min and the Wise Ones are acutely aware of the problem too, and likely many of the others close to him (Dobraine, Bashere, Logain, etc.) have realized it by now as well.