spoilers S3E1 - Discussion / Global Fan Event

[Mailman]

  On 3/15/2025 at 12:35 AM, SinisterDeath said:

You must have hated Ready Player One.

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I'm going to assume this comment is made as a joke. If so haha.

[Agitel]

I'm about halfway through episode one. 

 

A TV show or movie adaptation needs to adapt and condense. I've been supportive of the show in the past for this reason, and approved some of the structural changes, because at best we're looking at roughly 64 hours to fit in these fourteen books. 

 

Still, I think "it's an adaptation there will be changes" is also a saying that covers all manner of sins, as if there's no scale or degree of deviations--it's all just the same to some people (imagine if GOT S1E1 decided to have the Lannisters and Starks get into a battle at winterfell and Bran gets throne from a tower in an explosion, rather than the pretty faithful adaptation we got). And WoT is certainly playing fast and loose and doesn't really capture the vibe of the books for me. 

 

Pivoting to some positives, the overall writing does again feel like another step up from season two, which was a step up from season one. Cinematography, choreography, costuming, and acting all feels pretty great so far, in themselves. Mat also does feel quite a bit like how Mat should be, albeit he's a little too comfortable with his best friend being a male channeler compared to the books. But I'm okay with that, I guess, because we really haven't had much opportunity for the camaraderie and we also lack the book perspective of being in people's heads. He's not quite Mat "I'm no bloody hero", either, I'l recognize that for the naysayers, but really, I'm okay with it. 

 

Setting up Moiraine against Lanfear is again a deviation from the books. Not sure I believe it must be done this way, but between Rand and his romance with Lanfear it makes the stakes for Moiraine later this season a bit more obvious. 

 

I'm not really a fan of the scale of the opening scene, of the breakout of the Black Ajah. A massive explosion in the Tower. A massive fight. Killing each other in the streets. If they wanted to show the breakout I feel like it still could have been a bit more clandestine. I'm a bit worried we won't see Elaida's coup be as violent as it is simply because they put that focus here in the first episode. I also don't really think "It's a TV show, I turn my brain off and don't worry about logic" is a good excuse, either. The BA getting out of the Tower, just walking through the streets of Tar Valon in daylight. It just reeks of bad plotting and throwing up ones hands and not caring about solving the problems they write themselves into and this bugs me with so much media. Even if I accept the battle in the Hall, the street fight just felt superfluous, and again strained believability. 

 

There's a lot of things I don't mind in and of themselves. Elayne and Avi? Sure. But... there are some things that just irk me. Like Red sitters being deliberately refused entry to the Hall. The books has some shady politicking where they play fast and loose with protocol, but that blatant refusal wouldn't happen pre-Elaida's Tower (and even then). I haven't gotten to the Bubble of Evil yet, but someone wrote it has to do with Lanfear and Moiraine. Why? These things probably seem like the weirdest nitpicks of all things to some people. But these little detail changes seem unessential to me compared to other changes and just change the world into something else for me. 

 

Nitpicky, I know. Going to finish the episode. 

[SinisterDeath]

  On 3/15/2025 at 2:10 AM, Agitel said:

He's not quite Mat "I'm no bloody hero", either, I'l recognize that for the naysayers, but really, I'm okay with it. 

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I'd definitely like to read what you have to say about Matrim, after you've finished the first 3 episodes.

[Agitel]

I'll provide them when I get there. The comment sounds promising. 

 

A few more E1 notes:

 

So E1 reveals Mat's bluster is to hide some of his trauma. 

 

I'm not a fan of Egwene just walking away as she does. It gives her agency, I guess. But it doesn't really fit the book character, though between what she saw in the arches and what we know as readers I'm sure they're going for some irony. But I do think they had little choice to get the characters where they needed to go at this point, so Egwene needed such a break. (Could Siuane have instead assigned her to Rand? Maybe, but ah well.)

 

The bubble of evil change still irks me, though I will give props to a scene otherwise very well done. 

 

Overall a much better episode of television in itself, apart from any book comparison, compared to past seasons.

 

And again, I am a believer in changes for the medium. But that can be done while still staying true to the source material. The first five seasons of GOT (yes, even 4 and 5), all of Outlander so far, the LotR movies, the Hunger Games movies, even the later Harry Potter movies all feel like adaptations of the source material, where as the show feels more loosely inspired by it.

 

But good casting. And this season so far has good direction and better writing. I'll get over my criticisms. 

 

Another thing I'll recognize is that this episode is moving pieces on the board. People need to go to places, and given previous changes in prior seasons things have to be set up differently. Like Egwene's choice after the test. I'm curious to see if we get a bit more on track with some book scenes, even if re-arranged, since the pieces have now been moved.  

 

Now I need to find time to read the rest of this thread. 

Edited yesterday at 03:13 AM by Agitel

[Jaysen Gore]

And we're back - hello Dragonmount...

 

My quick thoughts on Episode 1 (although I did binge all 3 yesterday, so I may get a little mixed up):

 

- I think the acting from the main cast took a big step up; Rand is less wooden, Perrin less moody, and Mat more Mat. And Major PTSD for Egwene, which is cool

 

- the big action set piece is one of those Hollywood logic defying fight scenes. In the moment, it was cool, but falls apart under even a little rational thought.  and I was very surprised at which warder they killed, even though he's the one who ends up dead in the books.

 

- Speaking of Hollywood logic defying, we once again have a show ignoring time, space, and distance to get characters to be where they need to be when they need to be there. And another big nitpick - even with an Aiel guide, one does not simply walk into the Waste as if they are going for a Sunday stroll.

 

- the Aes Sedai healing thing is a big problem; I suspect that one of the post-series rip apart exercises is going to be go back and count how many times our heroes died. Not plot armor surviving, but bad S-FX / writing surviving.

 

- I'm fairly sure i predicted the Avi / Elayne swap for modern sensibilities. We'll see if it lasts, or it was just a "college phase" for Elayne

 

I'm still glad i have the books, and I prefer the books, but this was better than most of last year, and gets us closer to what I expect. So it's a win.

 

[KakitaOCU]

  On 3/14/2025 at 9:40 PM, Mailman said:

Look you can say that but these are women that have been trained and tested in the 3 arches further trialled by the 100 weaves to remain in control and be able to channel in the most stressful situations imaginable with decades and centuries of experience for them to be taken apart when they have at least a 3 to 1 advantage is just not going to happen.

 

And for all of them to fall prey to this and especially the other 2 greens in the room is just wrong.

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Can't say as I agree.  We see, repeatedly, that all of them, SPECIALLY the green, are completely unprepared to handle, well, anything.  If anything this will make the events in later books make more sense.  

 

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Like the Seanchan attack where the literal head of the Green Ajah is stumbling around completely in denial and disbelief of how pathetic the green showing was and how little they were able to do against enemy channelers.  Then she gets caught without effort and would be gone save for Egwene.  

You were okay with that in the books but the idea that 2 Green Sitters, more focused on politics than power, who are firmly believing that these women are their allies, their sisters.  That may very well believe the Black Ajah is a lie.  The idea that 2 of them freeze instead of fight is unbelievable but the idea that the leader of the Green is completely incompetent is okay?

 

[Turin Turambar]

I watched @Lezbi Nerdy YouTube thoughts on episode 1 video earlier. She had some interesting stuff. One thing she mentioned that I agree with is that the show has done a much better job of making the Forsaken competent and therefore much scarier. They seem to have fleshed them out much better as well.

 

I love her enthusiasm for it all. It reminds me of how stoked we all were when a new book was coming out.

[Wassup]

I have only watched S3E1 so far. I appreciate all of the varying views on this episode expressed in this thread.

 

The comment about Bollywood for the Alanna flip was an interesting perspective I had not considered.

 

I just wanted to make a quick post about the Matt and Nyn portion of the show.  Nyn seems a bit out of place and out of sorts.  She is a lost person with nothing anchoring her.  Her finding a purpose in being Matt's Wisdom and trying to heal him in her own way brings her character back to focus.  It gives her a reason to learn and push herself in the Tower.  I hope this was intentional.

 

 I hope Matt having the issues with the mixed up voices and memories in his head will lead him through the redstone doorframe.  It seems like a good motivation for him to do that.  Nyn's offer to help also conveniently keeps him in TV.

[Turin Turambar]

  4 hours ago, Wassup said:

I have only watched S3E1 so far. I appreciate all of the varying views on this episode expressed in this thread.

 

The comment about Bollywood for the Alanna flip was an interesting perspective I had not considered.

 

I just wanted to make a quick post about the Matt and Nyn portion of the show.  Nyn seems a bit out of place and out of sorts.  She is a lost person with nothing anchoring her.  Her finding a purpose in being Matt's Wisdom and trying to heal him in her own way brings her character back to focus.  It gives her a reason to learn and push herself in the Tower.  I hope this was intentional.

 

 I hope Matt having the issues with the mixed up voices and memories in his head will lead him through the redstone doorframe.  It seems like a good motivation for him to do that.  Nyn's offer to help also conveniently keeps him in TV.

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I've rewtched the episode a few times (doing my part for the viewcount), and I have less of a problem with her tumble than I did to start. I agree the Bollywood angle is interesting but I don't think it was super crazy looking a 3rd or7th time, lol.

That's a really good point about Nyn. She is struggling with the blocking is suffer confidence issues imo. Being able to at least support Mat and strive in order to help the villager she can shows her devotion to the group.

I can see Mat through the doorway by accident and then asking to sort out his "bloody voices". It is one of the.many things I'm excited to see this season.

[DigificWriter]

  5 hours ago, Turin Turambar said:

I watched @Lezbi Nerdy YouTube thoughts on episode 1 video earlier. She had some interesting stuff. One thing she mentioned that I agree with is that the show has done a much better job of making the Forsaken competent and therefore much scarier. They seem to have fleshed them out much better as well.

 

I love her enthusiasm for it all. It reminds me of how stoked we all were when a new book was coming out.

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I love her content.

 

She and the hosts/panelists from the Wheel & Chill Show - KritterXD, Winespring Cafe, and Ta'varen Tavern - are my go-tos for WoT!Show content because they're WoT diehards whose overall positivity about the adaptation stands out as an Oasis in a fandom climate where the haters of the show are literally taking offense at any opinions that don't match their own.

Edited 3 hours ago by DigificWriter

[Turin Turambar]

  3 hours ago, DigificWriter said:

 

I love her content.

 

She and the hosts/panelists from the Wheel & Chill Show - KritterXD, Winespring Cafe, and Ta'varen Tavern - are my go-tos for WoT!Show content because they're WoT diehards whose overall positivity about the adaptation stands out as an Oasis in a fandom climate where the haters of the show are literally taking offense at any opinions that don't match their own.

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Agreed on Kritter, I watch all her solo WoT stuff. The others I haven't really followed.  Another one I really enjoy is Everyday Negroes. Lezbi did some combined stuff with them. They hadn't read the books before season 1. I do enjoy the non book reader perspective.  I also love the names they've given some characters.

[DigificWriter]

  2 hours ago, Turin Turambar said:

Agreed on Kritter, I watch all her solo WoT stuff. The others I haven't really followed.  Another one I really enjoy is Everyday Negroes. Lezbi did some combined stuff with them. They hadn't read the books before season 1. I do enjoy the non book reader perspective.  I also love the names they've given some characters.

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The Wheel & Chill Show - which is primarily Livestreamed on Kritter's YouTube channel (on Mondays at 7:30 pm Central) but was briefly on Ta'varen's YouTube channel while Kritter was absent due to pregnancy - is a lot of fun because of the format, which is split into Zero-Book-Spoiler chat (most often with a Show-Only guest) and Full-Book-Spoiler chat (which I stick around for despite classifying myself as a Show-Only fan).

 

My personal go-tos for Show-Only content right now are the Watch Party Wheel of Time and Podcastica Wheel of Time podcasts (in which the commentary is split between/driven by one or two people who are fans of the books and one or more individuals who aren't)_ although only the former has started coverage of Season 3 as of yet.