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  1. How does making Logain the main villain for season 1 change the storyline? Does it make for a better show? Please share your thoughts.
  2. What do you all think about the interactions between Perrin and Laila? When he visited her in the smithy, she was very upset and he tried to comfort her. The thing that popped into my head was that she couldn't conceive or maybe had a miscarriage. Thoughts?
  3. I am just curious if any of you actually cried at any point in the series. I would love to hear about what did it for you. Obviously this would be a spoiler-centric thread. I made it to the final book and never did. I have four hours left in the audiobook so there may be moments ahead, but I finally had my first tears. Spoiler following I was quite surprised by this to be honest, but Siuan’s death was the first scene in the whole series that got my tears. I didn’t even realize how much I had liked her until that moment. And, to me, it was one of the bravest moments of the entire series. Granted I have four hours left so there could be more.
  4. So I've just listened to chapter 6 of TFoH, where Rand stands in his bed chamber after the whole thing with the darkhounds, looking at the two Access Keys to the male and female sa'angreal (Choedan Kal). But here's where I get confused: When he thinks about the male sa'angreal connected to the male access key, he mentions that fortunately he and it are divided by the Aryth Ocean? And when he thinks about the female sa'angreal, he mentions that he hopes it is still buried in Caihrien. But... the male sa'angreal is the one being excavated in Caihrien; not the female one, right? The one he encounters in The Great Hunt? I've re-listened to this three times now (I'm on audiobooks) and it is clearly what is stated. Is this just RJ mixing the two up as an oversight or have I missed something?
  5. Well, I just saw this last night and.... I was left underwhelmed. The CGI was decent, but it also felt like a tech demo for their new Unreal Engine demo. If you played their "The Matrix Awakens" tech demo, you'll see what I mean. https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/wakeup The acting was... typical for Matrix. Keanu did his typical Wooden Neo, Carrie Moss did a good job portraying Tiffany & Trinity. The new Morpheus did a decent job with the few lines he was given. Jessica Henwick as Bugs was good for what she did. Jada Pinkett Smith as Niobe was... Okay? If anything the make up artist sucked at make her actually look 60 years older. Plot/Writing, over all was decent/okay. I liked the Meta commentary from the director that felt like a Jab directly at Hollywood pressuring them into making a new Matrix with or without them. Pacing: It was too long. They dwelled way to long on the first half of the movie. Action: The Martial Arts just felt... really, really stiff. Like everything was slowed down so an old man can participate. However it did leave me wanting a Matrix 5. If I were to give the show a rating... CGI: 9/10 Acting: 7/10 Practical Effects: 4/10 Plot/Writing: 7/10 Pacing: 5/10 Sequel Anticipation: 10/10 Overall: 7/10
  6. Should us darkfriends expect to have dreams about the Primaries (the ta'veren)? Curious if the thought would be all darkfriends and if so starting when? just those in a certain vicinity? Both the books and show are a bit vague on it. If it's all, the when seems likely starting Winter's Night, so, I wanted to get the question out there as it will be relevant very quickly for us servants of the Great Lord of the Dark.
  7. OK i will try this again, some people hate this show, and they believe they have reasons to... well I believe we have reasons to love this show so here are mine: 1: seriously the dreams!!! 2: the existence of a WOT series!!! WOOOHOOOO!!!! 3:Once i found them... the extra animated shorts rock!!!! go on tell me more!!!
  8. Simple question, when cannon deviates between the show and books which should we follow? The ones that already come to mind:
  9. Hi, all! I'm new to the forums here (will introduce myself in the designated space later), but I've been reading the books for 15 years. More to the point, I'm a teacher-scholar of Rhetoric, Composition, & Writing Studies. Since I can't leave my work at work, I can't help but notice some troubling trends in the ways that book fans converse with each other about the show. Particularly, I see us resorting to causal reductionism--a logical fallacy that involves tracing one complex occurrence to a single cause. I explain it to my students like this: if you see me at Taco Bell, you will probably assume my hunger led me there. And yeah, I'm probably hungry: but I'm also more likely in need of the emotional support a bean and cheese burrito (no onions/extra red sauce) can provide. Why does it matter? In sum, I'm seeing us make assumptions about each other when we're discussing the show. At best, when we make assumptions about our conversants, we prevent good conversation. At worst, we belittle our conversants. I'm worried that the tendency towards causal reductionism will lead to a splintered fandom--one that revolves more around allegiance to particular stances on the show, and less around love for The Wheel of Time. Where is the causal reductionism happening? (Note: I don't intend to point out examples of these trends. Not trying to call anyone out.) Essentially, I'm seeing concerns about book-to-show changes being dismissed because of assumed--and frankly, belittling--causes. To illustrate, I'll use the opening scene from S1E1, in which Liandrin and a team of Red Aes Sedai chase down and gentle a male channeler. The complaint that I have about this scene is this: Liandrin mis-explains the taint on saidin. Basically, she frames it as something that male channelers caused (and still cause) by touching the One Power. Of course, we know the Dark One tainted saidin--not male channelers. Below, I'll provide two common kinds of responses to such concerns and explain how they make assumptions about the conversant. 'You can't expect a page-for-page adaption to TV.' Followed by, often, a brief explanation of how TV/film has different constraints than a 14-book series. This kind of response assumes that the conversant doesn't already know that. It may not intend to be insulting, but it can easily be taken as such. I'm an extreme case, but let me tell you: I'm published in scholarly journals on the subject of remediated teaching (sorry to be blustery, here); I teach remediation. I teach genre: I know that book series have different conventions, different audience expectations. Indeed, I like the opening scene particularly because I think it portrays the madness--through the visual mode--in a uniquely momentous and mysterious manner. But I'm not special here. WoT, who often double as LoTR, HP, and GoT fans--have vast experience in book-to-film adaption. We know how this works, and we aren't expecting every page to manifest perfectly, as we'd individually envisioned it, in the show. In sum, these kinds of statements make denigrating assumptions about the conversant's intelligence. 'We can't expect everything to translate exactly into the show.' Sometimes followed by a comment on how we all read the books differently, anyway, so no one can be entirely fulfilled. And that's correct! But here's the thing: I don't think anyone does expect that. Or want that. But this kind of response makes assumptions about the conversant's values: that they are for authenticity, rather than quality. To return to my issue with the opening scene: my worry doesn't lie in whether descriptions of the One Power match those in the books. It lies in my concern that the show-runners are focusing too heavily on reflecting (flattened) 21st century sensibilities (see also: elitism & Aes Sedai via Nyveave) than in telling a nuanced story. (Controversial, I know--an an entirely separate post.) Likewise, concerns about changes to Mat and Perrin's backstories are occasionally met with the same kind of dismissal--though many, like me, are concerned about how their characters are now (seemingly) driven by circumstance than by, well, their characters. Here's what I'm getting at: when someone has a concern about a book-to-show change, let's not make assumptions about what motivates that change. Especially when those assumptions are kinda insulting. Look, I'm not trying to be preachy. I hate preachy. It's the worst, worst, worst character trait, IMO. (Maybe I'm trying to be teachy...?) I just see a lot of conversations devolving or being cut short of something truly vibrant. Instead, we can simply ask: what about that change bothers you? Then, our conversations can move forward from the same page. I should end on a good note! Since I discussed my concern over the Liandrin scene, I wanted to share some cool, helpful, non-insulting responses I got! 'It's possible that Liandrin is unreliable--since she is Black Ajah, after all, and since her former Red Ajah status may lead her to espouse extreme beliefs about the One Power.' 'The show-runners may be subtly previewing Liandrin's character arch; in later episodes, we may see evidence that the One Power works differently--and, thus, get a hint that Liandrin is Black Ajah.' Is anyone on the same page as me here? I really want the best for the show. And I recognize that everyone has a different definition of "the best." I just wonder whether anyone else wants to tug at their braid when their concerns are met with dismissive (whether purposefully or accidentally) comments about my motives for asking the questions.
  10. It has been noted by several folks that Rand went from 0 to 100 with his antagonism of Moiraine - way faster than he did in the books. We were not privy to Tam's fever dream in the show - yet. Do you think Rafe is using this to amp up Rand's rebelliousness/stubbornness? Rand is agonizing because he no longer knows who he is and he is lashing out at Moiraine. More accelerated than the books but not different in the end. Maybe we'll get treated to a flashback of the quarry road after another Moiraine confrontation...?
  11. An idea came to me as I was thinking of the episode to come: In the books we of course never see Logain's gentling because the party is at that point in Fal Dara, or perhaps still in the Blight. Indeed we never see the Aes Sedai gentle any male channeller. In the series however with the party ending up in Tar Valon, it seems likely they will be there at the same time as Logain. Which means they may witness the trial/gentling. Now this is interesting for a few reasons. It puts the viewers face to face with the terrible consequences of the Dark One's backlash on saidin, even millenia after the breaking. And instead of the Red Ajah cruelty (not all of them of couse but still), it is the harsh necessity and responsibilty of the Aes Sedai to prevent chaos and destruction that will be center stage. Furthermore, Rand witnessing 1st hand the terrible fate that befalls those who proclaim themselves the Dragon Reborn, could serve to add to his reluctance in accepting who he is. And later it would serve to justify his suspicion and antagonism towards Aes Sedai. Lastly and perhaps most interesting is whether or not in the show Logain will retain his ability to perceive ta'verren. If so with the party present he would notice them instantly. I don't recall if the glow around the ta'verren is stronger depending on just how strong the ta'verren's influence is, but if not it's an easy thing to add. By doing so Logain, just like in the books, would realize how important Rand in particular is, and perhaps even infer that he is actually the Dragon Reborn, particularly if he is surrounded by other ta'verren. What I would really enjoy is if he would then taunt the Aes Sedai with this knowledge but without revealing it all to them. He could hint at his knowledge, and in some way even (if Egwene isn't ta'verren or if she is but Rand shines so bright its obvious) that he knows the Dragon Reborn is not a woman. For one this could serve to advance the mystery and take some viewers by suprise. And it would also increase the tension and apprehension within the White Tower concerning the Dragon Reborn. Logain could be lying of course but what if he isn't? And it would be totally in character for Logain to do so considering his attempts to sully the Red Ajah's reputation. He's vindictive and would certainly lash out. Anyway just some thoughts that came up, thought it would make for a cool scene, and was wondering what people thought. Too outlandish?
  12. One of the more intriguing aspects of the TV show is how broad of an audience Amazon will go for. I think the possibilities realistically range from TV-14 to TV-MA. TV-PG (the next 'lower' rating) calls for minimal violence, which I just don't think will work. The difference between these basically comes down to two things: nudity and gore. While TV-14 will have some blood and violence, TV-MA will have realistic violence and gore. TV-14 shows will have brief, "tasteful" nudity and implied sexual situations (think side boob and strategic placement of blankets during sex scenes) while TV-MA can include full frontal nudity and more graphic sexual depictions. Personally, I think the creators will head for the TV-MA rating. Violence and psychological terror are integral components of the plot. And, while Robert Jordan was not overly descriptive when it came to sex, the books do contain nudity and sex. Seeing that the trend is toward "Game of Thrones" type realism, I would be very surprised if the show went the other direction. What do y'all think?
  13. I am going to go with Perrin and Egwene after Shadar Logoth up to reunion with group. We will get wolfbrother, Tinkers, and rat bastard White Cloaks. I think Perrin will be early fan favorite until others get more into their arcs. Nyneave's arc also may be really good with apparent acceleration of her arc. Also major actor cast as Tam. Will Tam maybe become more important in earlier seasons since everything is getting crunched? A Tam arc with flashbacks to Blood Snow and Aiel War may be great TV that wasnt in book.
  14. Do we have any leads on what the changes were (from print to screen) that Brandon Sanderson 'offered suggestions on'? Someone recently mentioned the Whitecloak designs on another thread... I feel like that may be small enough bones to ignore for BS, but it got me curious as to if there had been any sleuthing or generally accepted ideas going on out there. And please forgive me if this has already been asked/discussed ad nauseum, I've been away from the forums for a long long while (a decade already, really?).
  15. It's worth a watch. This is the boost of encouragement I needed. It seems very clear that Season One will be centered on the question of "who is the Dragon?" It also seems clear that the Dragon is going to be very much an unknown quantity. "Is the Dragon a savior or a destroyer?" is going to provide the subtext. And to me, this hints at something I have advocated for a long time - structuring the tv show so the audience genuinely does not know whether Rand is a force for good. At Natrin's Barrow, I've always wanted new audiences to be convinced that Rand must be stopped. Essentially, that Egwene is right in not wanting to destroy the seals. Follow my logic here: If you believe that Rand is a destroyer, then you must believe that someone else will be the savior. If someone else is the savior, that person would fulfill the prophecy of saving the world. The person who saved the world would be the "true Dragon". If Rand is a destroyer, then the person who most opposes Rand is likely the savior. Egwene's rivalry with Rand is at its apex. By keeping the door open a crack as to "might the Dragon be a girl," they have kept alive a huge moment of dramatic tension. For audiences who don't know what's coming, they leave the possibility alive that Egwene is the "true Dragon," that she is right, that Rand doesn't know what he's doing. Looking at it from this perspective, leaving Egwene as a sort of "dark horse" for the true hero is actually an inspired choice in my opinion. This clip also makes it clear that the stories are going to be personal and that they will lean into the backstories of the Forsaken. My optimism has returned!!
  16. In her latest video Lezbi Nerdy pointed out that almost all the men in the Winespring Inn clip seem to have a beard, and she speculated that it might be similar to how women braid their hair when they come of age: when men come of age, they grow a beard. Unless they can't, which is usually a matter of genetics. And who's the one person in the clip who doesn't have a beard? I thought it was a really cool theory, and if true, could be another subtle detail that sets Rand apart (and probably makes him super self-conscious). What do you all think? Link to Lezbi Nerdy's video for reference: https://youtu.be/tvL5InZerow
  17. Check out the new images released on the official Twitter page: Thoughts?
  18. NYCC is today and there's been a promise of exclusive footage/content. For those of you who didn't buy a digital ticket, fear not! The main stage is being livestreamed and is not behind a paywall. Here's the link if you're interested. The Wheel of Time panel begins at 11:30 Pacific Time (2:30 Eastern Time).
  19. Wheel of Time Showrunner Rafe Judkins did an impromptu Q&A on his Instagram today to celebrate the announcement that Amazon has officially greenlit Season 2 of the Wheel of Time. In addition to confirming that Season 2 has been officially greenlit, Judkins provided some other exciting nuggets for Wheel of Time fans: (1) Episodes will be 50-65 minutes in length. (2) The Warders "color shifting cloaks" will not be part of the series due to the prohibitive cost of using that much CGI. (The same goes for the "ageless" appearance of the Aes Sedai. (3) The Trolloc footage that was accidentally released by the German PrimeVideo account was rough and unfinished. Accordingly, "there hasn't been a first look at a Trolloc." (4) In other Trolloc related news, there will be variety in the different types. We can look forward to seeing different types of Trollocs. Narg is confirmed to be in the show in addition to another Trolloc affectionately referred to as "Betty". The Trollocs will appear in Episode 1. (5) Perrin has thus far been the most challenging character to adapt due to so much of Jordan's characterization coming from the blacksmith's internal monologue. The full Q&A is posted here at WotSeries.com. Go check it out! Then come back here and let us know what you think!
  20. I think the solitary thing this teaser is meant to accomplish - it's only purpose - is to make people who are not aware of (much less invested in) the Wheel of Time think to themselves, "that looks interesting, I might check that out." The purpose of the next offering will be to change that opinion from "I might check that out" to "I'm definitely going to watch that." Even so, this trailer does a fantastic job of giving people a general idea of what the story is about, the concept of the One Power, and the epic nature of the story. I think they also did a superlative job of weaving in some major foreshadowing elements. Putting aside issues about the colors, or the details that we all love to nitpick this was a home run from a marketing perspective. The voiceover manages to explain the nature of the One Power in a way that's immediately understandable. There's a Power - women use it to protect the world. We learn that the power can be used to fight and to heal. We learn that there's some sort of organization of women who use the Power. And we learn that it's a battle of good vs. evil. There's a Dark One. There's a Last Battle and its imminent. There are some scary looking monsters. And they're after the good guys. That + visuals should be enough to pique the interest of people who are interested in this kind of thing. But I think it does a good deal more than that for those of us who are familiar with the source material and gives us many reasons to feel good about the care of the adaptation. These things show that Rafe understands the heart of the novels and is looking toward the future, planning for a long run. Here are some of the little subtleties. I love the way they cut Rosamund's voiceover, "the Wheel of time turns and ages come and pass" with images of Egwene entering, Rand smiling up at her, and Nynaeve's sad, knowing smile. Rosamund's voice even breaks just a touch on the word "pass", then it cuts to the wide imagery. It's so powerfully evocative of how Rand and Egwene's relationship is doomed to end as they leave their sheltered village into the huge world before them. It captures their bittersweet dynamic perfectly. The symbolism of Egwene rising from the multicolored pool just as Rosamund says "become Legends" is blatant to those of us who know the story, but it's powerful regardless. It also gives us a taste of the manner in which they are establishing expectations. The focus here is on Egwene - she appears 3 times in the first 20 seconds. A picture of her floating down the river (cut just after Rosamund saying "the Power inside you") is the establishing shot for the beginning of the explanation of the one power. This is a clear nod to the Aes Sedai training about surrendering to saidar and a clever way of evoking Jordan without pedantically recreating his scenes. In contrast Rand hardly appears at all, and one of the times he does it is with Egwene. This misdirection suggests a choice to lean away from Rand as the obvious Chosen One and harder into the modern trend of young female protagonists. It's a smart choice because it later allows for the subversion of expectations that made Game of Thrones so popular (provided the writing is clever enough) without having to revert to cheap devices like premature deaths. And it gives them the flexibility to play Rand's reveal at Tarwin's Gap in any number of different ways. The shot of Mat turning away from a man in a cage gives us a clever foretelling of Mat's encounter with the Finn while also nodding to Min's vision of an Aiel in a cage, then cuts to Hopper (presumably) and Perrin. The importance of that shot is obvious. But even here, there is more at work. Perrin's reaction - to back away cautiously but not in terror - is pitch perfect for his character. And they show smart restraint by not making Perrin's connection to the wolves obvious or showing us yellow eyes. The amazing cut from dancing, to a circle of bodies, to the top-down shot of the Hall once anchors the theme of life vs. death and the centrality of the Tower and gives us the "Wheel" imagery to go with Tam's gentle speech. We get Lan saying "the Dark One is coming for your friends" and then a Fade followed within a few seconds by a quick shot of Logain looking malevolent as he blasts out of captivity. It's another clever misdirection - and I think a hint that Logain will be portrayed as the primary adversary of Season One. (More evidence of this are the shots showing Lan protecting Nynaeve as Alanna stops arrows mid-flight and the shot of Nynaeve with her back to a tree mid battle.) I suspect they will put Nynaeve and Logain together earlier than in the books to establish a foundation for that relationship and may also decide to have the Reds gentle Logain upon his recapture. I guess the bottom line is that this works for me in every way possible. I'm really struggling to find much wrong that isn't simply nitpicking.
  21. If the series gets into S3-4 i could see an expanded role for Noal, combine him with Chel Venin the Horse Thief, keep his friendship with Olver(who would have to be introduced a bit later then in the books, due to his age). The revelation of his true identity in TOM and his appearance in AMOL would then have an even greater impact.
  22. Well, we have our new content from WOTonPrime! The Ruby hilted dagger is released. This is clearly footage lifted directly from the show. My impression is that this is a clip from a bonafide trailer. What do y'all think?
  23. If Aginor created the Myddraal and Trollocs, what were the dark ones armies made of before then?
  24. First and foremost, let us all take a moment to bid farewell to 2020 like Mat bidding farewell to the Gholam. I can only hope that whatever malevolent spirit that cursed us with this last year suffers the same fate... Moving on... We now know that we won't be getting any new content today. My previous prediction of a definitive release announcement is hanging on by a thread. (I think it only fair to count a hypothetical 1/6 announcement as being close enough to the New Year to count). But there is still hope!! It's really not possible to avoid linking the turning of the calendar with the turning of The Wheel. Plenty of built in symbolism that would make a New Year's Day/Eve announcement appropriate. You've also got the New Year's Day college football games, which draw large television audiences. As we know the Feast of Lights occurs on the last day of the old year and the first day of the new. It is traditional on First Day to give alms generously. Perhaps our friends at Prime have a little First Day gift in store? Time will tell...
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