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  1. Characters and story lines will be cut from the upcoming Amazon series. We all know this. I've come to terms with the likelihood that the Seafolk and the Kin are done for. In speculating about who will be in and who will be out, Thrasymachus and I have been debating the utility of Egeanin as a character and whether she should be eliminated from the upcoming series. She needs to stay. Egeanin is important to the plot, sure. But her inclusion is required for the symbolic role she plays as a bridge between the Seanchan and, ultimately, the White Tower. Her Role in the Plot: As we know, Egeanin first appears in tGH when she boards the Spray, seizing Domon's goods - including one of the Seals. After the battle of Falme, she is tasked with locating sul'dam who survived the battle as well as any a'dam bracelets she could recover. In performance of this duty, she locates a collared Bethamin, and thereby discovers that sul'dam are themselves channelers. Egeanin then befriends Nynaeve and Elayne and takes possession of the sad bracelets, which she is supposed to dump into the sea. Before she can comply, her ship is boarded and the sad bracelets taken. When next we see Egeanin, she turns up in Ebou Dar. She accompanies Mat when he escapes and is dressed down by Tuon, stripped of rank, and given the name Leilwin Shipless. She ends up on the Fields of Merrilor where Nynaeve shames her for the loss of the bands. Leilwin pledges herself to the Tower, saves Egwene's life, and ultimately becomes her Warder. A Bridge between Worlds: It wouldn't be difficult to write Egeanin out of the plot. Nothing she does is, strictly speaking, necessary for the plot to move. Nonetheless, it's worth considering what Egeanin's presence does outside of moving the plot. Of all the Seanchan, only Egeanin and Tuon spend any significant amount of time with the main characters in the lead up to the Last Battle. And given Tuon's status, Egeanin is the character that represents Seanchan culture in a personal way. She occupies all statuses at one point or another in the story. She begins as a commoner, is elevated to the Blood, is reduced to common again, and then becomes da'covale. Egeanin is by far the best vehicle available for presenting a character who represents the Seanchan as a culture. Her arc is excellent, starting from her culturally base dismissal of channelers as non-people to taking the ultimate step of taking a vow of service to the Amyrlin Seat. Her journey is personal, authentic, and also hugely symbolic in the battle between Seanchan culture and the rest of Randland. Meta Symbolism: But Egeanin's arc also plays to the overall meta of the WoT series. The "ancient symbol of the Aes Sedai" (the Yin and Yang) represents balance. Good and evil wax and wane. Evil is always present in the good (darkfriends) and good in the evil (Verin!). Jordan extends this concept to the balancing of culture, exploring how people don't all react in lockstep and how certain aspects of culture survive the years and adapt into new things. Egeanin of the Seanchan - whose people enslaved and dehumanized women who could channel for hundreds of years - taking her place alongside the Amyrlin Seat is an example of the kind of "cultural re-balancing" (for lack of a better term) that Jordan loved. Sometimes these re-balancings are malignant, like Mordeth. They creep in and infect a culture, perverting it to acts of despicable evil. Others have unique results in the way that the Aiel's use of spears developed from the Way of the Leaf. Developing Egeanin's arc plays to this theme. In her, the Seanchan's martial philosophy gains a hold in the Amyrlin's personal warder. How will that change the way the Tower's military develops moving forward? What changes might she bring to the way Warders behave? The Kind of Show I Want My hope is that the tv series goes long on character and shorter on spectacle. (Not that I don't want spectacle, obviously) Assuming they get to tell the whole story, I want audiences to be on their seat wondering whether Rand is gong to go full Danerys and have to be put down. I want people genuinely worried that Egwene will pick the wrong side. But I also want people invested in the side characters. (You know, the characters in GoT like Bronn, and the Onion Knight, and Breanne of Tarth) Egeanin is the type of side character who has incredible potential. She's kind of crusty and unlikable at first, but she has a heart of gold. The right actress could do a ton with her. Her unlikely befriending of Elayne and Nynaeve. Hiding Bethamin. Straight man for Mat's comic relief. Target of Tuon's wrath. And speaker for Seanchan culture. There's a lot of potential in that role. So what say you all? Should she stay or should she go? (Note: you can definitely keep Egeanin while losing Domon. Another character could become romantically linked with Egeanin if the writers decided to go that way.)
  2. One of the more intriguing aspects of the TV show is how broad of an audience Amazon will go for. I think the possibilities realistically range from TV-14 to TV-MA. TV-PG (the next 'lower' rating) calls for minimal violence, which I just don't think will work. The difference between these basically comes down to two things: nudity and gore. While TV-14 will have some blood and violence, TV-MA will have realistic violence and gore. TV-14 shows will have brief, "tasteful" nudity and implied sexual situations (think side boob and strategic placement of blankets during sex scenes) while TV-MA can include full frontal nudity and more graphic sexual depictions. Personally, I think the creators will head for the TV-MA rating. Violence and psychological terror are integral components of the plot. And, while Robert Jordan was not overly descriptive when it came to sex, the books do contain nudity and sex. Seeing that the trend is toward "Game of Thrones" type realism, I would be very surprised if the show went the other direction. What do y'all think?
  3. When goofing around with my own amateur adaptation, the Trakand clan always seems to present the most difficult problems. From when to introduce Elayne to whether to keep Morgase to how to eliminate Gawyn (kidding!), the Trakands always seem to present problems. Here are a few guesses about how things might play out for our favorite royal Andorans: Maria Doyle Kennedy is Morgase. [UPDATED] This is just a guess based on casting information that we have right now. Most speculation about Kennedy's role has focused on Siuan, Elaida, Verin, and even Cadsuane. I propose another possibility: Morgase Trakand. With Keira Chansa being cast as a young Siuan, Kennedy is likely not going to be Siuan. Verin is also an unlikely role as it seems doubtful to me that the Hunt for the Horn will leave from Fal Dara prior to Season 2. While Doyle-Kennedy would be excellent as Elaida, she would make an equally good Morgase with acting chops worth investing in over the long term. Morgase's story arc is underappreciated in my opinion - Doyle-Kennedy could really bring weight and depth to the character. [UPDATE] Maria Doyle Kennedy has been announced as Ila the Tinker. So if you're counting I'm 0-1 on my official predictions. Elayne Won't Appear in Season One First - no casting announcement. That's a fairly big clue. Unless Amazon is trying to hide a "big name", there would be no reason to keep this information secret. Second - like I've argued about Min in other posts - Elayne's introduction in the book, while memorable (it is one of my personal favorite scenes from the whole series), is too fleeting to be worth filming. And for pacing purposes, it makes more sense to have the focus be on Rand's encounters with Logain and Elaida. Third - keeping her introduction back will add some anticipation for season two. Egwene's arrival at the Tower is a perfect place to bring her into the story. Daryl McCormack is Gawyn (or Galad) (or Tallanvor) (or Galawynvor) There is some discussion of McCormack as Aram. That would make sense too. It would also make too much sense to get rid of or combine some of these characters. I personally loathe Gawyn and find him the least likable character in the series. Losing him entirely would make loads of sense. Galad's arc could remain the same. And as I mentioned earlier, I feel like the Morgase-Tallanvor-Lini-Lamgwin-Basil story line is underappreciated. McCormack seems like a great choice for either Galad or Tallanvor. What do y'all think?
  4. I am a first time poster and I would first like to preface this by stating that I love the wheel of time and that it is one of my favorite book series. I have read the series multiple times and think it is amazing. The following is just a list of the small things that I personally dislike (only slightly) about the series and some small changes that I would have liked to have seen in the last book that I believe would have made the series perfect. Most of the points below are probably pretty common among many fans of the series. Some of my points revolve around Brandon Sanderson but I do not actually put much blame on him. I believe he is a great author and he did an amazing job given the situation he was put in (probably better than any other author besides Robert Jordan himself). Plus, I do not know what was in Robert Jordan’s notes concerning the final book(s), so Sanderson cannot be blamed for too much. Anyways, on to the list. Small dislikes: The women are stupid/annoying (mainly Egwene and Elayne). They always think they are right and that they are the best. Nynaeve is like this in the first half of the series but, she is so powerful that it makes up for it. Plus, Nynaeve eventually grows out of it and becomes cool. Elayne has some growth (not enough). But Egwene stays the same the whole series, always thinking she is right. She opposes Rand (the dragon fucking reborn) even up until, and into, the last battle. She is the worst. And I realize that this is one of the themes of the story (with women being superior and men being mistrusted since the breaking) and that Robert Jordan was doing this on purpose, but just dial back on it and don’t beat the reader over the head with it. Rand should have struggled a bit more against the forsaken in the first few books. He just plows through forsaken without really knowing what he is doing. I think the forsaken should have been made to be more dangerous and powerful. Have Rand lose to them in battles and have to retreat near the start of the series. I know this is another theme that Jordan was doing (that the forsaken were selfish and they would lose because they couldn’t work together), but I still feel like a single forsaken should have been able to match Rand at the start. The SLOG or Plot Lines of Doom (Perrin rescuing Faile from the Shaido and Elayne’s fight for the throne). These plot lines start at the end of book 8 and continue until book 11. Some very important, and cool, stuff happens in these books, but these subplots just drag on and books 9 and 10 could, and should, have been condensed. The pacing of the series in general could have been improved. Less braid tugging, sniffing, dress brushing, and arm crossing under breasts. Less over description of clothes, rooms, curtains, and scenery. And less describing how the one power works in every book (have reminders until like book 5, after that, the reader should know how the magic works). I’m not saying to take these things out entirely, just to dial back on them. It would have made the pacing of the books a bit better. Nynaeve being downgraded. At the start of the series she is the strongest women channeler anyone has seen in forever and the only ones stronger than her are a couple of the forsaken. She is also extremely talented at healing (better than any Aes Sedai alive). Then, part way through the series, all these other extremely powerful channelers are found (Seanchan, sea folk, kin) and suddenly Nynaeve isn’t that impressively strong anymore. Not only that, but some Aes Sedai take Nynaeve’s healing and improve on it. And another women (from the kin) is discovered to have an even better form of healing. I can understand there being a few women that are stronger than Nynaeve (she’s not in the top rank, so there is bound to be a few stronger), I can live with that. But, to take away her talent for healing as well? Once you do that, what does that make Nynaeve? Just an above average channeler. This does not diminish Nynaeve to me as the reader. She is still my favorite female character. But, as the reader, I know she did these amazing things that everyone thought was impossible (curing stilling/gentling, curing madness, and going toe to toe with forsaken). But, what I’m trying to get at is, I wish other characters in the books had of acknowledged Nynaeve being awesome. But when she does these things, the other characters just brush her off like it’s no big deal and decide they can do it better. Brandon Sanderson’s Mat. Before Robert Jordan died, it seemed like Mat was finally starting to mature and come to terms with his destiny. He was still awesome and funny, but starting to grow up. Once Brandon Sanderson took over, he reverted Mat back into an immature child (eg. illiterate letter to Elayne, among other things). Brandon got better at writing Mat by the last book, but we never fully got the old Mat back. Also, Mat still never fully accepted being ta’veren and never came to terms with (and accepted) one of his best friends being able to channel. Even at their last meeting, Mat still kind of feared Rand. Aviendha also wasn’t written very well by Brandon Sanderson. Brandon Sanderson’s different plot line times not syncing (Eg. Perrin’s timeline lags behinds Rand’s in book 13, which causes Tam to appear to be in both Perrin’s and Rand’s plot lines at the same time when they are very far distances from each other). I realize this is due to having to split the last book into three and wanting to have big plot points in both books 12 (Rand/Egwene) and 13 (Perrin/Mat). If Brandon Sanderson didn’t split the plots the way he did, book 12 would have been kind of boring with all build up and no climax and then book 13 would have been jammed with all the action. But, honestly, I think I would have preferred if it had been done that way, to maintain continuity. Possible improvements to the last book: The obvious wish for all fans would be Robert Jordan not dying. It would have been nice to see how he would have gotten to the ending. Unfortunately, that is not how things turned out. *******REMEBER: I do not know what was in the notes that Robert Jordan left******* I don’t like how the field of Merrilor was written. It just didn’t seem like something the characters would have done. Rand’s threat to not fight the last battle was empty and Egwene refusing to listen to Rand’s reasoning for breaking the seals seems immature. I am fine with Rand being vague when he first told Egwene his plan while in the tower. He wanted Egwene to oppose him at first so she would bring the rest of the worlds leaders to Merrilor for him. And I also realize there had to be some conflict between Rand and Egwene so that Moiraine could swoop in and make it all right (I think this was part of Jordan’s instructions). But I think the whole meeting at the field of Merrilor could have played out differently to make it more believable. There should have been some final get togethers between the main characters before the last battle. Eg. all the Emond fielders (plus Moriraine, Lan, Thom, Min, Elayne, Aviendha, and, I guess, Faile). Also, Moiraine/Lan and Moiraine/Siuan should have had some on screen meetings. At the very least, Rand, Mat, and Perrin should have had one last pipe and drink the night before the last battle. The three ta’veren had not all talked together since tGH (book 2) and had not all been in the same place since tSR (book 4). I know Sanderson has stated that he wanted to do something like this but he couldn’t get it to work chronologically, but I still really wish it had of happened. Not really needed but, it would have been cool to have more full power Rand fighting whole armies and/or linked dreadlords before he went to fight Moridin and the Dark One. We got to see one good one (Maradon) but after that, they were either glossed over or Rand was attacked/overwhelmed right away. It also would have been cool to see him fight some more forsaken. We saw him take them on in earlier books but now that he is zen Rand, it would have been cool to see him fight other powerful channelers who also have knowledge from the age of legends. Nynaeve should have had channeling fights during the last battle. I know her role was to link with Rand, but it probably could have been fit in somewhere for her to fight some dreadlords/forsaken or something before going to Shayol Ghul with Rand. Moiraine should have done a bit more during the last battle. I know her main role was to get Rand and Egwene to work together and also to link with Rand during the battle. But I think it would have been cool to see Moiraine fight during the last battle (possibly Lanfear again). More background on Demandred and how he became Beo the Wyld (fulfilled shara prophecies). Demandred’s part felt rushed and should have been more developed. I liked how it was a surprise and he just showed up with a whole army out of no where but, after the surprise, it should have been explained a bit more. River of souls helps a bit but even that is still lacking the detail that I’m looking for. Should have had less Demandred shouting for Lews Therin and yelling how much he hates him (that didn’t fit my image of Demandred). I feel like Demandred would have been smart enough to know that Rand would be going to Shayol Ghul. Instead of being obsessed with killing Rand (and making a scene about it), Demandred should have just been content with being the shadows general and know that Rand was to be killed by Moridin/the Dark One. Would have liked to see Demandred realize that he had been out maneuvered by Mat before being killed by Lan. Perrin not sleeping through half the last battle. Logain should have had a bigger role to fulfill his “glory” viewing. I think Logain should have been the one to kill Taim. This would have been more symbolic of Logain taking the Black Tower back. Egwene could have died killing someone else (possibly Alviarin, head of the black Ajah). Rand and Moridin should have had a more epic fight during the last battle. It should have had lots of blade master sword fighting mixed with intense channeling. Fain should have had a bigger part in the last books and last battle. Mat and him should have had a better, more dramatic, fight. It might have also been cool to have a piece of Fain’s evil (possibly the dagger) survive. This could have been a bit of a cliffhanger that evil still exists in the world. Bela should have survived and been the horse that Rand rode away on. I know Harriet said it wouldn’t be fair to have Bela live, but I feel like it’s a bigger cop out to have so many main characters live. She’s just a horse, it’s not a big deal if she lives. Some more people should’ve died. Maybe Faile or even Nynaeve, Mat, Perrin, or Lan. It’s kind of hard to kill off the main main characters though (Rand, Mat, and Perrin). But more important people should have died, not just Egwene. I think it would have been appropriate to have Lan and Perrin die. Lan would die after “sheathing the sword” during his fight with Demandred (this might have distracted Nynaeve while she was linked with Rand but she could have fought through it. This probably would have been more exciting to read about than just seeing her try and heal Alanna anyways). Perrin could have died while protecting Rand from Slayer/Lanfear (possible Lanfear kills him when he tries to kill her and this distracts Lanfear enough for Moiraine to kill her). This would have been a more satisfying fulfillment of the shadows fallen blacksmith prophecy (instead of it being Hopper the prophecy was talking about). Nynaeve and Faile could have been revealed to be pregnant to carry on Lan and Perrin’s line. Perrin not having to rescue Faile (for a third time). It should have been Moiraine, not Cadsuane, that witnessed Rand leaving at the end. This would have been more symbolic because Moiraine was the one who found Rand in the beginning. An added bonus would have been an epilogue that was like 1 to 5 years later. The epilogue that we got could have been the last chapter and the new epilogue would be some time later. The ending is fine the way it is (it leaves the reader questioning and leaves things up to interpretation, which I’m sure is what Robert Jordan wanted), but to see how things turned out, and where everyone is, would have been nice. Basically want to know: How Mat is doing with the Seanchan and how the Seanchan have integrated into the world (did Tuon’s meeting with Hawkwing change her)? How Perrin is doing with the two rivers? How the white tower is working together with the Aiel, Seafolk, and Kin? How is the Black Tower is doing? Are the white and black towers starting to work together? Are Nynaeve and Lan refounding Malkier? How Elayne is doing with Andor/Cairhien/children? Aviendha pregnant? What is Min up to, still doomseer? Then maybe just show Rand living happily on a farm in the country being visited by his three women. Possibly getting on a ship with the three (fulfilling Nikola’s viewing and wiseones dream). It does not need to explain the pipe, Nakomi, or the body swapping (I know the body swapping has now been confirmed by Sanderson).
  5. Obviously, this thread has major spoilers in it, all the way through to the end of the story, so if you haven't finished and you are one of those who believes in the commonly held mythology of the spoiler, please navigate away from this thread now, before you see something that you will think ruins your reading (or potentially viewing) experience. (Even still, I'll be using spoiler tags, just so the more sensitive readers don't pick up anything.) . . . . So, we all know that in the end it turned out that was a Black sister, and I'm pretty confident that probably 95% of the readers shouted out a Vader-like "Noooooo!" and almost threw their book across the room at learning that fact (I almost did, just as I did when Ned lost his head, and when the Red Wedding happened -- ooops, spoilers for another franchise... eat it folks, I dunna care!). That reveal was pretty devastating since . But what other Black Ajah reveals bummed you out, or upset you? Made you feel bad, sad, disappointed, or angry? For me, I would have to say it was learning that was a Black sister. That was almost as big of a blow to me as was, as I really liked her character a lot throughout the series. I always enjoyed her scenes and her interactions with Egwene, Nynaeve and Elayne. She had a nice personality, I thought, and seemed like a kind hearted person. But apparently her desire for political power within the White Tower was so great that she was willing to sell her soul to the Dark One and join the Shadow, becoming a member eventually of the Supreme Council of the Black Ajah (despite, supposedly -- according to the Wiki -- not holding their views). So which reveal wrecked you, or at least upset you in some way, other than ?
  6. I have read the books and loved them, however, I have had a thought after watching Nae'blis's Youtube video on the Dragon Prophecies. In the comments, I had a little exchange about them, and it got me thinking. This could have been asked before too, so I apoligise in advance. In part of the line in the Prophecy at the beginning of Lord of Chaos, these three words "The unstained tower" got me thinking....Does this fit the White Tower at Dumai's Wells like I thought...or does it fit the Black Tower more? Does the unstained tower hint at the Turned Asha'man being stained in these three words? Also, in addition, another question: considering the Prophecies also mention a broken tower, could this be the Black Tower both times? Now the story has ended, and taking into account the details of how the story ended, I ask, because does this hint at more than first thought?
  7. LMK if this is an inappropriate thread topic or type of thread; I just anticipate having a lot of questions and would prefer not to spam y'all with a bunch of new threads. First question: was Moirane and Lan's field trip to the Two Rivers the most productive road trip ever? They found 3 ta'veren, including the Savior of the world, a future Amyrlin, and one of the greatest Aes Sedai of the Third Age who is the greatest Healer since the AoL (Nynaeve). They also discovered how far the Dark One had penetrated south of the Blight and got a read on just how close he was to finding Rand first (via Ba'alzamon and his Fade/Trolloc/Fain minions). Important information as the chess pieces start to line up for the Last Battle. Oh, by the way, they each found their future spouse on this road trip. Lan encounters the love of his life and future bondholder. Moiraine finds her future hubby who, along with one of the 3 ta'veren she finds, will rescue her from another dimension (at great cost) in future. And Moirane finds one of the richest veins of channeling talent imaginable, which is later harvested by Verin, Alanna, and (on the male side) Taim. Side question: Moiraine muses that if she had known she would encounter a fist of Trollocs and a Myrddraal on this voyage when she "set out from Tar Valon," she would have brought 6 or more of her Sisters. Did she set out from Tar Valon? I have a vague recollection that she avoided the place. But she must have done so, as she said it, and as she apparently talked Siuan into letting her bring that angreal with her.
  8. Is RJ/BS saying that a man can heal himself if he is mentally ill?
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