WoT Season 2 Episode 8: What Was Meant to Be

[BenPatient]

So, I thought the season wrap was pretty decent.

 

I think we just got confirmation that, at the very least, we're not going to have a twisted door in the basement in Tear moment next season, because the only real reason to do it was just done with the Horn. Probably no Tear until Rand actually needs Callandor. 

 

Matt makes his own Ashandarei from the knife...I did not see coming, and I actually like that. I also like him getting his memories/fighting power from the Horn directly. No need to triple-dip from the Finn well, if they exist on the show at all. 

 

Moggy isn't what I was thinking (she was more girlish), but I liked what I saw so far. She was making the whole room artificially darker, I assume on purpose, just to be emo/goth?

 

I actually like the whole 1 seal=1 forsaken change. Not sure how that squares with the seals being on the DO's prison, but I guess maybe that's not a thing here. The Bayle Domon/Lanfear scene was...odd.

 

I am really glad they didn't try to weave more Cairhien crap into the finale. I was sure they were going to do some stupid thing with Barthanes, Siuan and Liandrin, and I just can't be bothered to care.

 

Also very glad that they didn't have Elayne and Nyn fashion a Circle and save all the men from themselves a la S1E8. Can we get a re-write/re-shoot on that episode, please? If the show, as a whole ends up being good, and gets to go the distance, nothing will ever take away from the stupidity of S1E8. It's worse than Fat Lee Adama. At least that was funny. 

 

The most stupid/funny thing that happens in this season finale is Loial just walking around the corner with the horn box. You know they had a whole set of scenes showing how they got it, and then they had to get down under 70 minutes, and they just...whoop! cut it all out! honestly for some of this stuff "use your imagination" is probably the smartest editing choice.

 

Didn't like:

 

The Moiraine/Lan on the beach out of fire, throwing massive fireballs and destroying the entire damane fleet. The fire dragon was maybe 2 levels too distinctly dragon-shaped. 

 

Not sure anyone did the math on the whole double-collar thing. I think RJ probably already ruled that out at some point, didn't he? Like...it would kill them both if they tried it, type of thing.

 

No chance Eggy without some hardware had any chance against Ishy, not even in the show-lore. 

 

Suroth needs to be re-written, or re-cast. Something is just off with her portrayal. Maybe she died on the boat and it won't matter? I am guessing not.

[The_Watcher_And_Wanderer]

So wow!!! Over all I was very, very pleasantly surprised an I am finally starting to feel like I can really get on board with this show. None the less there were some major missteps IMOH but I’ll start with the good:

 

1. Heroes of the horn, loved pretty much everything about them. Loved how they appeared, loved that Uno and Steppin were among them, loved that Brigitte got a brief cameo, most of all loved that Mat is indeed the son of battles and Ishy’s tea can go suck it! 

 

2. Mat’s creative use of the dagger. In the books he did briefly regain the dagger and used it as his primary weapon at Falme. I’m guessing this was done so the they can forgo having to detach him from it once again. I also like how it foreshadows his ashandrei, at least I hope it’s foreshadowing and it doesn’t just become the ashandrei. 
 

3. Rand meets Elayne and gets noticed by Avi. For a hot minute I thought they were going to forgo Rand’s polygamy and just keep Egwene as his love interest. In fact, I though they were arranging to hook the others up with other character, Mat + Min, Perrin + Avi respectively (the latter pairing has been weird as it is, did the two of them ever even meet in the books?) but nope, looks like they are going all in on Rand’s trio, good for him!

 

4. Lan V Seanchan Bash at the Beach! For the first time I think I saw an inkling of book Lan!! It doesn’t quite erase that whole, “It’s nice to see you too” BS but it did make it fade a little.

 

5 Moghedian!!!  That actress is absolutely brilliant, love the creep factor!!  

 

And now the bad:

1. Completely robbed Nyneave of one of her most badass moments. I am honestly not loving this unconfident and incompetent Nyn. In the books she remained full of confidence despite her block, and the way she took charge and got things done at Falme is what made me fall in love with her as a character.  I mean she didn’t need the help of some random yellow sister, she didn’t need to be told by Elayne that they had tried her way, she just got mad and got even. I liked that Egwene got herself out of her predicament but still I think she could have gotten by with a little help from her friends . At least they could have let Nyn cause the explosion that allowed Eggy to free herself. 
 

2. Perrin actually did kill Geofram. Sure if someone did that to my dog I would probably react much the same way, but this scenario gives Dain some legitimate beef with Perrin. I mean this version of Dain is already leaps and bounds more likable than the book version, but now it’s hard not to side with him in this dispute. 
 

3. Lackluster Rand v Ishy battle. Sure I get that this version of Ishy is more of a battle of wits guy but at least let him jam his staff into Rands side. Perhaps in this case it could have been a sneaky act of betrayal as opposed to a hard fought battle, but I needed a bit more of a struggle between them and I’m not sold on Rand’s wound being caused by the dagger. They better have a good payoff in store.

 

4. Padin Fain still an active servant of The Shadow as opposed to an independent agent vowing revenge against the DO himself. Didn’t love that he was able to give up the dagger so easily. Perhaps now that he’s given up the dagger he will begin to realize the hold it has on him. Still, in this scenario why did he kill the Fade?

 

and those are my initial thoughts. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2023 by The_Watcher_And_Wanderer

[Meskell]

Thoughts collected whilst watching. 
 

- Aiel spears look like they’re made of tinfoil for a kids play. 
- the channeling for the bond to be unmasked…

- just randomly appearing with the Horn…

- dummy’s in the mouth continue to be a truly horrendous acting choice

- what a pointless thing in having Turak say the line from the book but good to see Rand actually do something. 
- ‘I’ll hold them’ doesn’t even last 5 seconds and the soldiers should be no further behind the others. 
- Lanfear gives Domon what looks to be equivalent of £10 to give up a fortune worth thousands. 
- dagger can melt locks???

- dagger now kills immediately…

- whitecloaks all speak as though they are reading an autocue that they don’t really trust. 
- why did taking the suldam wrist off open the collar this time but not the other times?

- Rand’s whisper acting continues to be frustrating. 
- shielding without being able to see, distance and not bonding. So annoying. 
- Valda just leaving Perrin on the floor…

- the horn looks like cheap tat

- why is Uno a hero?

- ‘I remember’ as though he’s been plugged into the matrix training programme. 

- ‘oh no no’ I’ve never heard anything funnier!!

- Egwene saves Rand, Rans lies down like a weak baby as always. 
- Moiraine somehow has the power to destroy a ship from a mile away.

- Lan actually has one scene of being competent. Don’t understand why they didn’t just run to the side of him to kill Moiraine. 
- Egwene can hold off the second most powerful channeler on the planet without too many issues. 
- Perrin holds him off with some random shield. 
- Elayne heals/closes the wound…

- the stab under the heart might be the most anticlimactic thing I’ve ever seen on a tv show. 
- oh not just one ship, all the ships. 
- why is Lan doing some random crouch behind Moiraine whilst she sends the ridiculously massive fire dragon. All anyone else could do was the fireball equivalent of a water balloon. 
- now it’s a physical dragon monster ffs.

[DaddyFinn]

I'm pretty sure Ishy let Rand kill him and was toying with Egwene. He's playing the long game.

[A Memory Of Why]

1 hour ago, DaddyFinn said:

I'm pretty sure Ishy let Rand kill him and was toying with Egwene. He's playing the long game.

 

I think you're right, it makes sense that Ishy, the master manipulator is playing games here.

 

There's no way Eggy could hold him off, the strongest channeller in world - but it would push her arrogance.

 

Theres no reason he didn't kill Nyn and / or Elayne, Eggy was on the defensive and we saw how fast the Forsaken can channel.

 

Why use the Demane against Rand when he had 6 Forsaken who could wreck the city?

 

Also, how easily he was killed and why he didnt heal. He basically welcomed it, which fits but still.. really does bug me Ishy "sheathed the sword".

 

Even if this is true, its still underwhelming. It makes sense in the long run but it looks silly.. Ishy playing games is the best case scenario 🫨

 

Thankfully the last scene was a banger.

Edited October 6, 2023 by A Memory Of Why

[Mailman]

Can anyone explain what the fog was that the whitecloaks used for cover? 

[A Memory Of Why]

35 minutes ago, Mailman said:

Can anyone explain what the fog was that the whitecloaks used for cover? 

 

Well obviously there was a legion of kids with incense burners? 

 

And.. there was fog shown in that first scene..

 

Honestly maybe it's just magic 🫠

 

Seriously, the whitecloak charge was cool. I thoroughly enjoyed it, it was kinda the coolest part for the best battle in cinema history - only slightly sarcastic here, I really did think it was cool 🫣

[Sabio]

The episode just seems poorly thought out, with many holes and head scratching moments.  

 

The Ishy vs Rand fight had to be the worst, most anti-climatic fight ever.  I was like, that was it, Ishy just stands there as Rand just walks up and stabs him in the chest?  Maybe he was like ohh I can't beat this poorly trained girl, I deserve to die.

 

They are trying too hard to make everyone equally important.  It seems forced, like ohh what to do with Mat, ok make him a hero of the horn.  

 

Uno is a hero and Mat is a hero?  Seriously Uno?

 

I think it would have been better had they kept Ingtar arc, with him trying to get redemption.  I mean why even care about the character, he's now just some noble who sacrificed himself.  Who lasted like 5 seconds.

 

I didn't mind the Rand vs Turak fight, it was actually pretty funny, but the Ishy fighting and not able to get past some poorly trained novices was just dumb.  Not to mention Moiriane has the power to conjure a giant fire dragon?  Shouldn't the three oaths of stopped her from attacking the ships?  They weren't shadowspawn and Lan and her weren't in any danger.   Ishy couldn't think of any better weaves to use and some-one who has a few months of training can hold him off?

 

I loved the ending with Moghi putting Lanfear in her place.  

 

Shouldn't the Egwene vs her Suldam fight have been a standoff, with neither being able to hurt the other?  If you can't hurt your Suldam how can you choke her?  Egwene went from crippling pain if she tried to hurt a Suldam to, being choked isn't so bad.  

 

The dagger is now a lightsaber able to cut through anything.   Yet if cuts flesh it just kills instantly unless it stabs an important character, then it just leaves normal wounds.  Seems a bit odd.

 

I assume Ishy death is setting him up for Moridin.  Curious if they will use the same actor.

 

My only issue with Perrin really killing the dudes father, is it ruins any chance later of a truce between them since Perin can no longer claim he didn't do it.  Now we know that change is coming.  

 

16 hours ago, A Memory Of Why said:

 

Well obviously there was a legion of kids with incense burners? 

 

And.. there was fog shown in that first scene..

 

Honestly maybe it's just magic 🫠

 

Seriously, the whitecloak charge was cool. I thoroughly enjoyed it, it was kinda the coolest part for the best battle in cinema history - only slightly sarcastic here, I really did think it was cool 🫣

I think it was meant to be the dust from all the horses, but makes you wonder how they got so close to the city in the first place.  

Edited October 6, 2023 by Sabio

[Mailman]

14 minutes ago, Sabio said:

I think it was meant to be the dust from all the horses, but makes you wonder how they got so close to the city in the first place.  

but if it was dust from the horses how could it have possibly stayed in place long enough for them to bring up trebuchets and set them up in range of the city.

 

no natural fog would have remained in that much sunlight for so long either

 

also every channeler on the tower was killed except for egwene and renna, please

Edited October 6, 2023 by Mailman

[Meskell]

16 hours ago, Sabio said:

I think it was meant to be the dust from all the horses, but makes you wonder how they got so close to the city in the first place.  

It was incense. You saw the child soldiers walking ahead and waving them, with the fog being generated out of the containers. 
 

Combined with the whitecloak charge, was probably the most cinematic sequence from the entire series. 

 

16 hours ago, Sabio said:

The episode just seems poorly thought out, with many holes and head scratching moments.  

 

The Ishy vs Rand fight had to be the worst, most anti-climatic fight ever.  I was like, that was it, Ishy just stands there as Rand just walks up and stabs him in the chest?  Maybe he was like ohh I can't beat this poorly trained girl, I deserve to die.

 

They are trying too hard to make everyone equally important.  It seems forced, like ohh what to do with Mat, ok make him a hero of the horn.  

 

Uno is a hero and Mat is a hero?  Seriously Uno?

 

I think it would have been better had they kept Ingtar arc, with him trying to get redemption.  I mean why even care about the character, he's now just some noble who sacrificed himself.  Who lasted like 5 seconds.

 

I didn't mind the Rand vs Turak fight, it was actually pretty funny, but the Ishy fighting and not able to get past some poorly trained novices was just dumb.  Not to mention Moiriane has the power to conjure a giant fire dragon?  Shouldn't the three oaths of stopped her from attacking the ships?  They weren't shadowspawn and Lan and her weren't in any danger.   Ishy couldn't think of any better weaves to use and some-one who has a few months of training can hold him off?

 

I loved the ending with Moghi putting Lanfear in her place.  

 

Shouldn't the Egwene vs her Suldam fight have been a standoff, with neither being able to hurt the other?  If you can't hurt your Suldam how can you choke her?  Egwene went from crippling pain if she tried to hurt a Suldam to, being choked isn't so bad.  

 

The dagger is now a lightsaber able to cut through anything.   Yet if cuts flesh it just kills instantly unless it stabs an important character, then it just leaves normal wounds.  Seems a bit odd.

 

I assume Ishy death is setting him up for Moridin.  Curious if they will use the same actor.

 

My only issue with Perrin really killing the dudes father, is it ruins any chance later of a truce between them since Perin can no longer claim he didn't do it.  Now we know that change is coming.  

UNO and I saw someone else mention Steppin and Lady Amalisa in there?? So there are around 20 heroes in all of history and 3 of them are just some random idiots from the last 6 months. 
 

Mat being one is try and short circuit the Finn storyline, which I understand but it still seems odd that he knows he’s a hero, does a matrix download and then gets to fighting. 
 

I hadn’t even picked up on Moiraine breaking one of the 3 oaths during that scene… I really don’t understand what they were thinking and why they couldn’t just allow Rand to kill them all ffs.

 

Agreed on the Egwene moment, the position would’ve been better allowing her to be saved and the others witnessing her killing the suldam in revenge. Now it can just be glossed over and any time two damane feel like not being one, can just pick up the bracelets left in their room and set each other free. 
 

I really don’t understand why the Whitecloaks tried to kill Perrin, watched a wolf save him, killed the wolf and then were just like ‘nah lads fine who we just tried to kill, there can be no consequences if we leave him here’. 

[Requiem]

16 minutes ago, Meskell said:

I really don’t understand why the Whitecloaks tried to kill Perrin, watched a wolf save him, killed the wolf and then were just like ‘nah lads fine who we just tried to kill, there can be no consequences if we leave him here’. 

 

Eamon Valda was the driving force behind the whitecloaks attacking, Bornhald sees one of his men being savaged by a wolf and rescues him, he likely doesn't recognise Perrin and carries on trying to win the battle. Valda limps off because he is in no shape to fight anyone.

 

It all seems perfectly reasonable to me.

[Robbin Poh]

Damane can't pick up their own bracelet, only other peoples. Hence why they are kept in separate rooms.

 

Anyway, the show had some weird moments, but not as weird as in the books and I think can be easily explained unlike the books. 

1) Egwene has a talent for warding or channelling dexterity, and/or she is a hero too and hearing the horn awakened some channelling skills she had. Being a hero also explains why she said sorry to Rand, and why the script let Ishy comment "How did you...?" and look puzzled how she is suddenly able to fend him off for so long.

2) Rand awakened some LTT memories when he heard the horn, hence him suddenly being sure he had never turned in 1000 turnings, and then using those memories, he invented a form of destructive weaves that can kill forsaken for good. (Although their souls might still be spun out again in the next turning of the wheel.) Maybe he didn't use it on the forsaken during AOL because maybe it disrupts the pattern, but he had no choice this time. Possibly it is what Show balefire looks like, ie for melee combat only, and no special time-undoing effects

3) Moiraine could create a huge fire dragon because it was mostly just an illusion.

But somethings are just plotholes that can't be fixed. Like Moiraine being able to destroy an entire navy from several km away. And Maighan and Moiraine both being able to use the OP as a weapon not in defense of their lives or the lives of their warders.

 

Edited October 8, 2023 by Robbin Poh

[Requiem]

22 minutes ago, Meskell said:

UNO and I saw someone else mention Steppin and Lady Amalisa in there?? So there are around 20 heroes in all of history and 3 of them are just some random idiots from the last 6 months. 

 

Uno is the only returning character in amongst the heroes of the horn. The hero that people are assuming is Lady Amalisa, is named in the xray as Amaresu, played by a totally different actor. Stepin is also not there, Peter Franzen does not appear in Seaon 2.

[Vartija]

Overall, I enjoyed it. I was really quite pleased with it almost to the very end. The final scenes at the tower were a little over the top for me, especially Egwene's last minute rescue of Rand. I just don't see how she should be able to battle Ishamael in strength. They were really hammering home the ensemble spirit with all of the TR5 there with Rand.  

 

A little disappointed Rand didn't get a bigger moment to shine. Then again, they haven't really established how he could have done much more than he did either with the sword or the Power. At least that's consistent storytelling. 

 

Hopper's death had me tearing up. Loved how they did Perrin's rage, but I can see the issue with him going for more of a revenge kill rather than a heat of the moment defensive move. 

 

Not really sure what they're building with Nynaeve - I was a little frustrated by her lack of ability this episode, it seemed a bit out of place when everyone else was rising up to the challenge. Her whole arc has been a bit flat after the Three Arches. I'm a bit unclear about the nature of her block because it seems her ability to use the power is kind of random rather than tied to her anger. 

 

Mat finally had a big moment. Couldn't help noticing the dagger seems to function differently from S1E8 and the book in general. My biggest gripe was that I don't see how that flimsy ad hoc Ashandarei could hold together through that fighting, lol. They did well with the Heros of the Horn. I was worried it might look foolish but it didn't. 

 

Good to see Moiraine admit to her mistakes as well. 

 

I see some posters cringed at Aviendha's Car'a'carn. Is that because Rand isn't technically the Car'a'carn until he comes out of Rhuidean? 

 

Probably my biggest plus from this episode is that Mat & Perrin finally had their moments to shine. I can't say I've been pleased with the road to those moments but at least they showed some spirit finally. 

[Mailman]

2 minutes ago, Meskell said:

It was incense. You saw the child soldiers walking ahead and waving them, with the fog being generated out of the containers. 
 

Combined with the whitecloak charge, was probably the most cinematic sequence from the entire series. 

Is this serious incense large enough and controlled enough to cover a charge over that distance, you must be joking.

[DreadLord31]

So the things that encourage me the most about this season are: 

 

#1. the actors/actresses, for the most part, knock it out of the park when they’re given something decent to work with. 
 

#2. the bad guys are so much more believable, even likeable, that I’ve been won over to the dark. #teamLanfear 

 

#3. the CGI was slightly better than the Video Game quality bad Trollocs and channeling of the S1 Finale. 
 

What truly worries me is: 

 

#1. Other than the cold open of S1Ep7, they’ve consistently shown they don’t know how to direct/edit good action sequences IMO. The “biggest battle in Tv history” felt somewhat lame with all their quick cuts (even though the lighting didn’t suck for once). 
 

#2. it continues to feel so rushed. 
If I assign my students an 8 page paper & they turn in a 30 page paper, they get it back with a “You have an 8 page max.” If they then take that same paper & just try to cut out 22 pages worth … that’s going to be an F paper even if the 30 page paper was really good. Hard core WoT fans might be pissed… But if you’re given an 8 seasons, 8 episodes parameter — you can’t try to squeeze in everything; you have to write a new story. And they’re doing an “ok” job of that, but still trying to squeeze in too much and give all these winks at book readers. Like the Ingtar stuff. 
 

#3. WoT is most known and loved as a fantasy series for its world building and its intricate magic system. You can’t keep conveniently breaking even your own shows rules within the show WoT when it comes to the magic system. 
 

For example(s): the Egwene/Renna stuff made no sense. We argued for a whole week how, “If the collar only comes off if the Damane dies…how is Egwene going to get free & not be a “fake-out” death. Egwene becoming Renna’s Suldam at the same time she’s Renna’s Damane??? What? 
 

The damane shielding Rand from the ships made no sense. Within the rules of the show you have to be in sight of the person & actively channeling. 
 

Moiraine got tired/injured fighting like 20 Trollocs … now she can fire blast an entire fleet from miles away? 
 

The Shaddar Logoth dagger can melt through metal & instant kills now? Didn’t last season. 
 

The Horn of Valere box is easily opened by Turok & then just set aside and unguarded even though “With this, the whole world will be ours.” Really? But then Loial just has it & they can’t open it, without the dagger?
 

And where did Fain go? Is he corrupted by the dagger or not? In the show it corrupts whoever touches it, but Fain just sets it aside for Matt … just because we need Matt to “have it” but not “touch it”. 
 

 

[Seaine's eyebrows]

Yeah...

 

I want to like the show, I've waited 25 years for it! So I don't think too hard about the things that don't make sense. And that bugs me, because I like to pick things apart 🤭

 

But I was happy with all the little lines directly taken from the books, and the scenes (and I suppose I use 'scenes' in the loosest sense of the word!). And I'm looking forward to the next season.

 

But I do wish it wasn't quite so different from the books. But! I'm also glad to have this show.

 

Saidin and saidar.

 

😝

[mogi68]

The two bits I really liked about the episode:

1. "I will never serve him. In a thousand lifetimes. I know that, I'm sure of it" 

2. Rand looking up and instantly being transfixed by Elayne

 

 

2 hours ago, Mailman said:

Can anyone explain what the fog was that the whitecloaks used for cover? 

 

 

white phosphorous 🤪

 

 

 

[EmreY]

I so wanted to be the first to comment on this thread and say that I loved how Galadriel took down Ishamael but, alas, timezones and whatnot. 🙂

 

Overall, solid.  I wanted a more dragony Rand, but I can understand the slow buildup.  But I swear if we end S3 with wise women channelling down the Stone or something, I will stop watching.

[king of nowhere]

it does feel rushed, indeed. well, i was wondering how they could tie all the remaining loose plots in one episode, i knew it would be rushed. same problem this show always had, really, not enough screen time for all the plot.

 

too bad for turak. looks like this incarnation of rand is not a sword expert. not yet, at least.

 

ingtar is not a darkfriend. or, we'll never know at least. it was a good choice at this point, he wasn't expanded enough as a character to keep his arc meaningful. only thing i don't like, you hold a choke point by staying in it and blocking the way, not by charging out. stupid hollywood tactics.

 

so, they said suldam are weak channelers, they don't have the distinction between those that can learn and those that will do it spontaneously. i suppose it's shorter.

oh, I totally said that damane could cause a friendly fire accident in battle, and so many people were tellling me no, that's not possible. despite well established book lore that suldam order you to bombard the enemy, but they leave the handling of the power to the damane herself. and yes, they can see weaves and stop them, but they have to be ready

On 9/23/2023 at 1:41 PM, king of nowhere said:

if I were in that situation, i would do all the suldam ask of me, until i am brought to battle. then in battle I would try to cause some "accidental" friendly fire accidents.

I suppose I am entitled to some gloating?

egwene killed renna. well, hopefully we won't have any cringeworthy stuff about making sure moghedien was comfortable.

 

nooooo! perrin killed bornhald! the one good guy among the whitecloaks. how could they do it? so sad scene. perrin and bornhald jr could be friends. i suppose that's why they concocted this scene. I really loved old bornhald for his speech of "the seanchan are murderers and slavers, someone has to stand up to them"

 

uno a hero of the horn? it fits. but is the woman amalisa? i like that much less. i don't see birgitte. hopefully because they don't want to cast her prematurely, and not because they cut her out entirely.

Oh, by the way, while mat saying "i remember everything" and just gaining a bunch of new powers didn't sit well with me initially, I have to admit it's actually a lot better than "I can defeat those two highly trained warriors because I was taught by a farmer that occasionally spars in his free time"

 

damn, ishy using the illusion to get mat to stab rand was brilliant. the books rarely used it in battle, but it was a wonderful ploy.

 

lan gets to be badass! yay! it was long overdue.

 

wait, wait, wait. moiraine cannot use the power as a weapon except as last resort to defend her life, that of lan, or that of other aes sedai. she ABSOLUTELY cannot use it to blow up ships in the distance that are not paying attention to her; most of those ships don't even have damane on board. That's a MAJOR plot hole. And it could easily be avoided by having moiraine cut the flows of the other damane. I'm dropping the rating of the whole show just for that. shame on everyone involved.

 

it was good, a real mark up over the previous season. I can enjoy it and just pretend that the last thing with moiraine never happened.

Edited October 6, 2023 by king of nowhere

[Ralph]

not yet ready to put down everything I want to say, but three points people have raised...

 

did M use it as a weapon? they made a point of showing everyone falling into the sea, and presumably swimming to shore. holing a ship is not attacking people. even in the middle of the ocean could be debated. 

 

Re Perrin and Bornhald, the trial in the books denies that berserker rage is a defence, so ends up the same that it is revenge of murder of a friend, only the friend is a wolf. 

 

Re the horn not being guarded, that is straight from the books

[MarcusM]

Still trying to get my head around this Episode.

The battles look cheesy and unreal to a large extent. Like a comic, rather than a real battle. I think it is due to some fashion to run things in slow-mo and at the same time make character say cheesy punch-lines.

Also this way to battle burn a lot of quality time that could have spent elsewhere.

 

And you've guys already said it. I agree. Here are the minus.

Moi. Too much power at too much of a distance. Even if she still has her angreal and took the main ship by surprise.

Avi. Very cheesy line. How would she instantly know he is their Car'a'Carn? Yeah I know there is the dragon... but their lore is different.

 

The questions marks.

Eg. Can't make up my mind here. I think she does a fantastic acting. I love she uses her own ingenious to get free. But she kills the sul'dam. And there are a lot of illogicalities with the double Adams. I love how she is protecting Rand. But there should be no way she should be able to hold that defensive shield up. At this time through the books she is likely at somewhere 30-50% of her full strength. And Ishy is somewhere between 2x - 4x stronger than her (at her full strength). And there is probably an angreal on his fingers. It makes good TV. Yeah. I so hoping that this is Ishy's long game, luring our heroes in believing they ar on par with the Forsaken.

Ny. Great that they finally tuned down her ability to just save the day. But I would have liked her to heal both Rand and Elayne. I the books Elayne is crap at healing if I remember correctly. And why on earth would she not break that arrow first before pushing it through. That was just plain dumb.

Rand. Good acting. But seriously. Staring in Ishy's eyes for half a minute before stabbing him through the heart. Nah, I don't buy it. And we are all left to wonder, why he didn't magically heal. I was looking forward to the sword fight, in which I did hope Lan would save Rand's sorry butt. But I can work with how they made Turok and his guards look like bugs not even worth bothering with.

Heroes. Well, Uno was fun to see. But his comments was just cheesy. I did like the female whirlwind. As for the rest, nah. They should've made more of lore out of them. Especially Arthur and Birgitte. I wonder if we will get Birgittes Arc from the books also in the show?

Mat. Some glimmering moments. But some cheesy too. Love the ashanderei. But the dagger turning into a dark saber? WTF.

Loial. Can't you start doing something useful, besides giving cheesy speeches. Open the box of the horn dammit. No they have to ruin the box by ash'sabering it! (as it makes Mat look witty and looks good on TV, common!:-()

 

And the plus.

Ishy. All in all. Fantastic! Not sure about how I felt about the vampire-stone and dust, however.

Lanfear. Best actress. Coolest character. Period. She definitely has my heart in the show. When I heard they would get Natasha to play her, I didn't know what to think. My first thoughts was, well she surely isn't beautiful enough. Now she looks bloody stunning in my eyes! Some awesome job they did wither.

Moghedien. I LOVE this version of Moggy. I absolutely hated her inte the books. Now she plays with Lanfear. That's awesome TV. I tried to look into the X-Ray as I hoped this was T'A'R' rather than left in Flame, but I didn't see it on the computer. On the plus, here they picked a really beautiful actress. Moggy was nothing but ordinary.

Horn. I actually cried when they blew it. This was a great moment.

Lan. Finally gets to shine for a bit.

 

Well. So what does this all give me? Entertaining yes. Is it WOT. Nah. Is it close enough? Well it's this I get to live with. I like it enough.

[nsmallw]

1 hour ago, Vartija said:

My biggest gripe was that I don't see how that flimsy ad hoc Ashandarei could hold together through that fighting, lol.

 

1 hour ago, Vartija said:

A little disappointed Rand didn't get a bigger moment to shine. Then again, they haven't really established how he could have done much more than he did either with the sword or the Power. At least that's consistent storytelling. 

RE: Rand. Whatever happened to the sa'angreal that Moraine gave him in season one ? Surely he still has it and with it be able to hold off Siuan et al when they are able to shield him.

 

Yeah, that Ashanderai needs to be re-tooled to be inside a spear casing, lol. just tied to a bed post doesn't seem sufficient LOL

[Robbin Poh]

39 minutes ago, mogi68 said:

The two bits I really liked about the episode:

1. "I will never serve him. In a thousand lifetimes. I know that, I'm sure of it" 

2. Rand looking up and instantly being transfixed by Elayne

 

 

 

 

white phosphorous 🤪

 

 

 

Maybe ter'angreal? Whitecloaks tell themselves whatever is convenient that they want to hear when they want to use something

Edited October 6, 2023 by Robbin Poh

[The_Watcher_And_Wanderer]

The more I think about it the more I realize how poorly the show has handled Perrin and the Whitecloaks. In the books Perrin killed some whitecloaks in tEotW in self defense and later Dain sees Perrin in the general vicinity of where his father dies and just assumes he is somehow responsible (because book Dain is a belligerent idiot). In this version Perrin straight up murderers the dude, because even if you kill a man for killing your dog it’s still murder, and a mild mannered and rational Dain is reasonably upset. 
 

Now let’s just look at who Perrin murdered. Had it been a guy like Valda I suppose we could let it slide but remember that one of Geofram’s defining qualities in the books was that he was a decent man despite being a whitecloak, and this is doubly so in the show as he wasn’t even the one who interrogated Perrin and Egwene. In fact last we saw him before this scene he was bravely shoring up his men to defend the people of Falme against an invading force despite overwhelming odds because it was the right thing to do. Next he rescues an ally who is being savaged by a wild animal. Geoffram totally did not deserve what he got, in fact the man should have shown up when Mat blew the damned horn, and its hard to feel good about what Perrin did to him. In fact, I’m pretty sure I’m team Dain on this one.