WoT Season 2 Episode 5: Damane

[SinisterDeath]

This is the topic for Season 2, Episode 5: Damane 

Director: Maja Vrvilo

Writers:  Rohit Kumar / Rafe Judkins

 

This topic is for discussing Episode 5 only. You should expect to encounter Full Spoilers Up To Episode 5, and full book spoilers on this topic.

[SinisterDeath]

Aaand apparently it's out now. (I thought it came out an hour from now)

[VooDooNut]

I'll re-watch it in the next couple days, but...ooof.

[SinisterDeath]

38 minutes ago, VooDooNut said:

I'll re-watch it in the next couple days, but...ooof.

 

If you know, you know... 

[Pandemonium]

Very good episode.... maybe the best of season 2?  Finally some more action to pick the pace up. 

 

The Lanfear chase was interesting and showed her cruelty, but why are they holding back the gateways is all I can think.  Lanfear doesn't need a horse.

 

Perrin gets to be the star of this episode, and the wolf communication is pretty great.

One oddity was that Elayne said Perrin's wife was not his pack.  Not a wolf sister or deeper meaning?

Perrin's meetup with Dain all great, but the fight scene too dark and hard to focus on. This team needs to brighten up some of these scenes.  

 

Suroths dark motivation is pretty interesting, but what could it be?  I liked how they chopped her nails off for punishment.  

 

Batthanes, always gotta love that guy.... Kind hearted darkfriend.   How many episodes until he is toast?  

 

Seeing Lanfear and Ishamael in the dreamworld pretty great.  First mention of Moghedien and Graendal.  

 

Verin and the brown Ajah fun to see, finally get to explore a different Ajah.  I'm sure Verin suspects something from Liandrin and the white asparagus.  Also Sheriam is either painted to be an obvious darkfriend or a woman under compulsion.  Detective Verin at work but it will be interesting to see how or if she ends up in Falme.  

 

The Barthanes wedding appears to be where a big confrontation goes down.  Siuane is likely to be present at this.  And it appears Matt and Min will be there as well.  Barthanes won't get to be king for long.... WOT chasing in the steps of GOT?

 

Poor Egwene.  Episode 6 should will definitely be Egwene's turn to star.  

 

Aviendha having toh towards Perrin is going to change the relationship with Rand quite a bit.  Will be interesting especially now that she is flirting with Perrin a bit.  Wonder how all that gets worked out.  

 

The details are all changed around, but this definitely still feels like Wheel of Time.

 

Matt is still mostly missing from this show, but he is mostly absent in TGH as well.  

 

 

 

 

[DreadLord31]

What a rollercoaster. 
Quality wise, this was the best episode of the season IMO. Pretty compelling throughout. 
 

I’ll have to rewatch as well before I have much else to say. But my initial thoughts are that the Lanfear/Isha’mael dialogue & acting, oooh man, my confidence in the show increased a lot. I just wish each episode was consistently this good. Have this director do every episode! 

[Agitel]

It is hard for me to really distance myself from the books on my watch and appreciate the show for itself. I maintain the production is definitely higher quality and more consistent than season one. I think this episode especially made it feel like we need at least two more episodes a season to develop characters and relationships more, as some things felt rushed.

 

I enjoyed the choreography of the fight with the Children of the Light. There was plenty of references to book Aiel culture, which was interesting. I overall enjoyed Perrin 's arc this episode. And I am interested in seeing more of Aviendha on screen and what will go down at Falme.

 

We have a double down on calling LTT the Dragon Reborn.  Perhaps they think it'll make the cyclical nature of things and the special duties of Rand's soul clearer. Admittedly, Jordan did drop a lot of our common lore in interviews that wasn't always made absolutely clear in the books, and they're just simplifying that. But still!

 

And one more nitpick on terms... please call it the SHADOW. We're probably too late now, but it just sounds so much better than "the Dark". The sound and connotations of words hit differently. Do they think viewers will be confused by having the "Dark One" and the "Shadow" and think they're referring to different forces?

 

Not really how I pictured Falme at all, architecturally or climate-wise, but okay.

 

We could see some great Egwene scenes next week. Crossing my fingers they really do this right. I want the see sul'dam treating damane like livestock/pets. Not as some fetish, lol, but it's just disturbing and I think will really drive it home.

 

I did, admittedly, really like Verin. I'm pretty sold on her character and actress now, that was good, but oh my a lot of it just feels rushed.

 

I'm glad Ishy said the line (paraphrasing) "and how do you think the Dragon will feel when all his friends are taken?" Because for half a moment I was wondering what the point of all this focus on the rest of the EF5 was for.

 

Honestly the weakest part of it all was the Rand/Moiraine/Lanfear arc for me, and maybe I'm just too hyper focused on this being a large deviation from the book. And, I'm going to get stoned for this, but I'm not 100% sold on Josha as Rand. His voice is very pouty. This isn't a commentary on his acting skills, exactly. You know, I can see some of Rand in the way he's being written. I can. I just finished Book 8 again in my sixth or seventh reread, and there are aspects to all of this where I do see Rand. But I don't feel like I see either the sheepherder or king yet. (Obviously we shouldn't be seeing the king yet, but still). He feels a bit in no man's land.

 

Or maybe Josha just needs hair.

 

I'm came away from the episode feeling mixed about it, and I suppose I still am a little bit in some respects, but writing all my thoughts down has helped me process it and I'm feeling better about it now. My character overall feelings will be retroactively affected by how all of this pays off at the end of the season.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Agitel

[Agitel]

Oh, I forgot to mention that we saw a portal stone! At this point I feel like they'll have to use it, but it feels like now it'll be coming in clutch at the end without any setup.

 

Why didn't Lanfear use a gateway or skimming? She was probably hoping to catch them in the road and didn't want to miss them.

 

Was the fight scene too dark? I didn't think so, but I've a fairly nice OLED and a plasma to watch the show on. Those TVs cannot make the Battle of Winterfell in S8 of GOT watchable at all, that was truly just too dark, but I personally felt like my viewing experience of this battle in WOT was pretty good and that they nailed the balance in lighting for a nighttime scene.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Agitel

[SinisterDeath]

3 minutes ago, Agitel said:

Why didn't Lanfear use a gateway or skimming? She was probably hoping to catch them in the road and didn't want to miss them

Gateway/Skimming you still have to kind of have an idea where they're heading... and it uses a a lot of power.

 

Searching for someone like that, could probably drain you pretty fast if you don't get lucky with your first few gateways/skims. 

[DreadLord31]

Alright, nah, I’ll give some more initial thoughts: 

 

1) they’ve doubled teased now that we’ll get a finale battle in the sky, hopefully they deliver on that & it’s done well. 

 

2) they hinted that Isha’mael has a thing for Rand? But I also noted that they made mention by name of Moggy, Graendal & “the twins”; does that mean we’re just getting 6 Forsaken? 
 

3) I was so confident that Gaul was cut, now, I’m not so sure//am hopeful. And the reason is, we didn’t see Bain & Chiad in this episode but we know they’re cast this season. So maybe we get Gaul too?! I have hope again. 
 

4) No Matt, Min, or Lan. And it improved the episode. Sadly. But it is what it is. 
 

5) Loved getting more Verin. Mention of compulsion. And the dialogue about a Black. 
 

6) The Avi/Perrin fight was ok. But yes, lighten it up and needed to be a little better coordinated and filmed. 
 

7) Man, the villains are the best actors in this show — making me feel like a Darkfriend that I like them better than our protagonists. 
 

8. love the Seanchan costuming. 
9) special effects were good, but those practical effects/explosions need to be bigger! 

10) love using real animals, Hopper is so cute. But — it does kind of take away from the fact that Wolves are suppose to be fierce/scary. And as someone who lives, hikes, and hunts in MN I’ve seen real Timberwolves and they’re like 3x that size. 
 

11) what kind of freaky stuff is Lanfear gonna do to Rand? Riiight? 
 

12) I love Elayne. Really not loving this version of Elyas. Didn’t love this intro of Avi. Elayne and Rand are like exactly what I imagined in my head as a book reader. And frankly in my head cannon, Avi is suppose to look like a tanner//harder version of Elayne/Rand as an Aiel. Riiight? Have to have the distinguishing features of Tall and Red Hair. But whatever. We’ll see here these last 3 episodes if Avi gets better. 

[ForsakenPotato]

The Seanchan were much scarier in their initial attack than they were in this episode with the manicure of shame. Suroth and Turok are not necessarily doing it for me...so scary when they don't speak, so dumb when they do. Maybe that's the point though, not the brightest bulbs so all the better for Ishamael to manipulate. Hope whoever is training Egwene is scarier. The Foresaken are also pretty goofy, but I like the actors for them better and they absolutely hammed it up in the books too. Lanfear's reveal of her true nature has been extremely entertaining so far.

 

Fav moments were probably Detective Verin, Avhienda sassing Perrin at the campfire, Elayne and Nyneave bickering, and maybe Moiraine's interactions with her family. I still think the show does best when it slows down to let the good characters really interact with each other, not without frustration or pettiness but still with good intentions. It's an important contrast to the interactions of characters in the shadow, who just try to flex on each other constantly.

 

A minor quibble: Most of the costumes seem great to me this season with the exception of Avhienda. Is she wearing yoga pants? And like, combat boots? With what spandex and rubber in the three fold land are these being produced? Top half of the costume is great, bottom half seems...millennial. It wasn't on camera in the light for long though so I may have seen it incorrectly.

 

 

 

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

1 hour ago, DreadLord31 said:

But I also noted that they made mention by name of Moggy, Graendal & “the twins”; does that mean we’re just getting 6 Forsaken?

"the boys" not "the twins" - presumably Samael, Demandred and Asmodean as hinted in the figurines in S1.  

[Storeebooq]

Holy Moly this was an intense episode! 

 

I am honestly enjoying the Liandrin and Nyn dynamic. It's way more interesting than what occurred in the books.

 

Finally some talk about the world of dreams! 

 

Detective Verin! The Browns! I want to have a drink with Verin and her Scoopy Doo Crew now =] 

 

I don't know if I'm mentally and emotionally prepared for what's coming for Eggy.

 

More Foresaken name dropped, that's going to help with narrowing down who we will see!

[Rhaze]

 Another episode that left me saying OH NO when it ended, great cliffhanger. I like Verin tracking down Liandrin's lies. Perrin is going along strong. Dont like the flirting with Perrin from Aviendha, Hate them referring to Lews Therin as the Dragon Reborn.. stop it, he was The Dragon. All in all a great episode made all the better for the lack of Lan.  Still looks like everything is on track for everyone to be where they should be at the end (Falme). Hopefully we go into book 3 (season 3) with Mat and the girls heading back to the tower where Mat can get fully healed, have his flashbacks, find his luck, beat the hell out of Gawyn and Gallad and everything will be great.

[A Memory Of Why]

This was a fun episode, they're doing a good job of upping the ante so far.

 

Alot to unpack but I want to start with.. 

 

B*tch..

 

True Power baby 😇

 

Moraine outfoxing Lanfear was so much cooler than her tricking a fade.

 

Doing a great job with the Seanchan, love their weird hair.

 

Avi!!! Cool fight, though a bit.. stuttery, could go with nearly half the cuts. 

 

Also notice how Dains crescent axe stood out, was half expecting Perrin to walk off with it. I'll bet all the imaginary internet points he ends up with it by the end of the season.

 

Ishy and Lanfears dream was amazing, the power dynamics were.. wow! He really enjoys humbling people.

 

Moggy and Graendel were my guesses, interesting Lanfear left out the 4th female (Semihage?).

 

Welcome to Sherlock Verin 😉

 

Nice to see some browns in action, little person AS represent! But yeah, we've mostly seen BA this season.. allegedly.

 

Liking Moraine with her family, Barthaines seems to innocent to be a dark friend though. It feels like it will be moved to her sister, though I'm guessing the Queen. Need a reason to kick off the civil war, well probably be meeting the Queen in the next two eps and having her be a DF as an excuse to kill her this season before the marriage.. etc.

 

Liandrin dropping off the girls was amazing, it's nice to see a scene that's virtually pulled out of the books. 

 

Eggy is going to have a rough time 🥺

 

With that out of the way, anyone else feel like Elayne and Nyn got KO'd like a couple of girls? It looked a bit.. silly. I think I would have preferred some solid judo chops.

Edited September 15, 2023 by A Memory Of Why

[Finnssss22]

I'm now convinced that Verin is taking the Cadsuane role and Liandrin will take over Verin's "Background". Honestly, I'm good with this as both Fleetwood and Syal are absolutely killing it as Liandrin and Verin respectively. Previous to the news this last week and this episode I wouldn't have leaned this way so heavily as I thought for sure the casting of Shohreh Aghdashloo meant her as Cadsuane but now, unless they're screwing with us, it looks like she is actually going to play Elaida, I'm 100% seeing these changes. Liandrin releasing Nyneave as she was leaving is very akin for me to Verin's extra help she gave Egwene to hunt the Black sisters in the books.

[denise_42]

I haven't seen the episode yet but what has happened with Rand he is my favourite character what happened with him in this episode .

[DreadLord31]

3 hours ago, denise_42 said:

I haven't seen the episode yet but what has happened with Rand he is my favourite character what happened with him in this episode .

 You want us to tell you before you watch it?! 
 

Well…ok. 
 

Lanfear kills him. 
But don’t worry … it’s a fake out! Or am I just faking you out? 

[Seaine's eyebrows]

We saw the saa....

 

Also I must say, I was really kinda hoping Liandrin wasn't going to be Black in the show! Because I've really been enjoying how complex her character is, she's easily one of the most interesting characters in the show. I thought they may have just been combining her with Elaida. I'd even convinced myself last week that she had convinced herself that she wasn't technically using the One Power as a weapon on the Wonder Girls and so wasn't breaking any Oaths. But she didn't, and she was, and so I guess she's just a complex and interesting Darkfriend 😆

 

Can't wait to watch Egwene next week!

[Agitel]

My thoughts are that Liandrin could be merged with Alviarin, not Elaida. Possibly do some of Galina's role, too. Either or both.

[nsmallw]

Doesn

10 hours ago, Pandemonium said:

, but why are they holding back the gateways is all I can think.  Lanfear doesn't need a horse.

Doesn't the lore hold that you need to be familar with the area your in and the area you want to go in order to open a gateway. Lanfear hasn't been awoken long enough to know all the terrain, especially considering the breaking. I believe that's why. Someone else can correct me if i'm wrong. 

[nsmallw]

10 hours ago, Agitel said:

And one more nitpick on terms... please call it the SHADOW. We're probably too late now, but it just sounds so much better than "the Dark". The sound and connotations of words hit differently. Do they think viewers will be confused by having the "Dark One" and the "Shadow" and think they're referring to different forces?

Agree with you here. I did enjoy them finally saying "The Great Lord",  I want more on the nature of the DO too. I get that Ishy is the only true believer in the Forsaken at least in his opinon. And I loved the reference to "the boys" and their inability to follow through on their plots...spot on book wise and a nice touch. The dream scene with Ishy and Lanfear was the highlight of the ep to me, but l loved the rest too, definitely the best ep this season, so far. I hope the next three blow it out of the water in cool factors.

[SinisterDeath]

29 minutes ago, nsmallw said:

Doesn

Doesn't the lore hold that you need to be familar with the area your in and the area you want to go in order to open a gateway. Lanfear hasn't been awoken long enough to know all the terrain, especially considering the breaking. I believe that's why. Someone else can correct me if i'm wrong. 

I believe a Gateway you need to know where you are at.

Skimming you don't need to know either, but you need to be familiar with the area.

 

If she was creative, she could have created a gateway in the air, looking over the area getting a good idea where they were and where they were heading... The Forsaken were smart for their time, but they were also very arrogant. 

[nsmallw]

6 hours ago, A Memory Of Why said:

Lanfear left out the 4th female (Semihage?

Since Semirhage was placed with the Return in the books, but Ishy seems to have replaced her with them in the tv show. Of course Semirhage did arrive with Tuon so she may still show up then. 

[DigificWriter]

Several things:

1) I continue to love Liandrin even though I'm fully aware that I shouldn't

 

2) So now we know why Season 2's new costume designer, Sharon Gilham, said that it takes the death of a Damane in order for their collar(s) to be removed

 

3) In spite of prevailing fan theories to the contrary, the show continues to lean further and further into the notion that Moiraine has been Stilled, not Shielded