Why not follow the books more closely?

[WhiteVeils]

51 minutes ago, RainHarlow said:

Meanwhile, I don't know about this show's nitty gritty of development... but, ah... Red Eagle sitting on rights for aeons... who sued Harriet... who Mr. Jordan had some er, colorful things to say about their character... yeah. How they were involved in pitching it and all I haven't a clue, but I doubt it would blow anyone's mind, shall we say.

 

Rafe has the passion to do it right and knows how to do big shows well.  He did good work with Agent of Shield.  Winter Dragon was utterly cringe-worthy. 

[Cipher]

45 minutes ago, WhiteVeils said:

Of course they tried to cater to the population of Brazil. They had a huge presence and Brazil's Comicon. Fantasy is incredibly popular in Brazil.  A fair bit of the Tar Valon architecture is similar to South American inspiration. The Tinker clothing was based on the cultural clothing of peasants in Peru. The show even had a Parrot!  
That said, it was good and it did appeal.  We don't have specific patterns for falloff for Brazil, but worldwide the falloff for Wheel of Time was much better than many other shows, including Rings of Power, so they succeeded at what they wanted to do.

I will have to take your word for it that Tar Valon is influenced by S. American architecture and the clothes. BTW the White Tower's look is bad in the show IMO.  It is not even white. Sad.

 

Just re-watched episodes 4 and 5.  I personally liked the Middle Eastern designs on the soldier and battlements when Logain healed the soldier.  It adds a depth to the world building.  As do other cultural influences. 

 

What I really am saying is that I don't think most viewers will need a specific tie to their own experience to enjoy the story.

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, Cipher said:

BTW the White Tower's look is bad in the show IMO.  It is not even white. Sad.

How on earth is this not white?

up

[Mailman]

1 hour ago, SinisterDeath said:

How on earth is this not white?

up

It's not terrible I would have liked to have seen at least the central part look a bit more polished or reflective white.

[A Memory Of Why]

Yeah, I reckon If you get rid of those lil towers at the base of the main central tower I'd look bigger and there'd be less complaints.

 

Honestly, should be a bit concerned about that bump on the accepted wing though. Recommend getting that looked at, better to be safe than sorry when the DO is about..

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

I’ll just add a few of my thoughts that came to mind while reading this thread. First off, regarding the overall impact that making an adaptation can have, the announcement that WOT was being adapted for the screen directly led to my decision to finish reading the books. I loved the first 5 and then stopped early on in book 6 due to various reasons (mostly life circumstances leaving little time for reading, not necessarily because I didn’t enjoy the books). It renewed my interest and instantly revived my passion for the world and characters. 
 

The next thought I had regarding adaptations, is that it seems no matter how they are presented, there will always be book purists who reject any alternative portrayal on screen. Even when in hindsight something is generally accepted as a success, it’s often criticized at the time. For example, I remember when season 5 of GOT came out, many book readers stopped watching the show and had very intense reactions to the changes that were made, particularly in regards to Sansa. Understandably, when viewed from the perspective of a book super fan, some will take these changes to their beloved source material personally. It’s probably akin to watching your own life story adapted so that every change feels wrong. This hasn’t been my personal experience of adaptations, I tend to enjoy them, but I can see why some people can’t. 
 

One more thought, and this may be partly why I’m able to enjoy them. It’s not easy to get a show made, and whether or not it pleases everyone (not possible) I appreciate that someone managed to do it. Would I have done things differently? Sure. But I’m not the one who put in the work to make it happen, and I’m sure if I had, I would’ve had plenty of people who disagreed with my portrayal. 

[Cipher]

10 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

How on earth is this not white?

up

 

 

This is the scene that was freshest in my mind.  The Tower looks dingy and obviously not as described in the books.  And scenes from the inside where all the stone work is grey and dingy.

[Elder_Haman]

20 hours ago, Samt said:

Not moving to Buckland and cutting the barrow downs and Thom Bombadil is straight up just cutting self contained plots.  Maybe you think they are important, but the story largely works without them.  Critically, cutting these scenes doesn't impact what happens to the characters or story in other parts of the plot.  

This is the standard you've established. So I'd like you to explain how some of the things you mention makes it so, "the story [no longer] works without [the source material]."

 

20 hours ago, Samt said:

The Thom Merrilin changes, for instance, are going to make various parts of Mat's story need a major overhaul.

How do the changes require a major overhaul of Mat's story? And how will these changes make it so that the story doesn't "largely work" anymore?

 

20 hours ago, Samt said:

Rand is going off on his own.  That doesn't happen in the book and now there needs to be further changes to bring it back together.

Rand does go off on his own at the beginning of tDR, but explain why having him go off on his on now makes it so the story doesn't "largely work" anymore.

 

20 hours ago, Samt said:

Moirraine is stilled (or maybe shielded).  That is a major addition that now needs to be addressed.

Why will this mean that the story doesn't "largely work"? 

 

In short, which changes do you feel have broken the story and why.

[Elder_Haman]

4 hours ago, Cipher said:

 

 

This is the scene that was freshest in my mind.  The Tower looks dingy and obviously not as described in the books.  And scenes from the inside where all the stone work is grey and dingy.

What even is this photo? This isn't a still from the show.

[SinisterDeath]

38 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

What even is this photo? This isn't a still from the show.

I made the white tower in the TV show whiter.


Now it just looks like a bigger white dick.

[Samt]

2 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

This is the standard you've established. So I'd like you to explain how some of the things you mention makes it so, "the story [no longer] works without [the source material]."

 

How do the changes require a major overhaul of Mat's story? And how will these changes make it so that the story doesn't "largely work" anymore?

 

Rand does go off on his own at the beginning of tDR, but explain why having him go off on his on now makes it so the story doesn't "largely work" anymore.

 

Why will this mean that the story doesn't "largely work"? 

 

In short, which changes do you feel have broken the story and why.

By largely works, I mean that the characters can do the same things, go to the same places, in the same order.  In other words, some changes just take something out of the story but the rest of the story doesn't have to change to accommodate it.  Other changes leave a hole that make the rest of the story need to change to fill it in.  

 

As to why Mat's story is called into question, that's a bit of book spoilers, but Mat goes certain places later on because Morraine met Thom during the EOTW.  

In regards to Rand, Rand starts tGH with the Shienarans and spends most of the book with them. To me that means you have to change other things to make it work.  Moreover, it's not the case of taking something out and leaving a hole.  They just changed something.  

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

3 hours ago, Samt said:

As to why Mat's story is called into question, that's a bit of book spoilers, but Mat goes certain places later on because Morraine met Thom during the EOTW.  

More to the point in the books Mat traveled with Thom for some months (and treated him as a trusted non-Aes Sedai source of information about the world)  while in the show he only knew him for a few days.  In the former the paranoid post-dagger Mat can reasonably trust Thom and ask for his company while in the latter there is less reason to.  

[WhiteVeils]

55 minutes ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

More to the point in the books Mat traveled with Thom for some months (and treated him as a trusted non-Aes Sedai source of information about the world)  while in the show he only knew him for a few days.  In the former the paranoid post-dagger Mat can reasonably trust Thom and ask for his company while in the latter there is less reason to.  

Except for the fact that he nearly sacrificed his life for Mat.  It does encourage trust.

 

In any event....whether it is enough or not depends on how they do it.  And things will get cut or combined. So we can't know until we get there.

[Mailman]

8 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

I made the white tower in the TV show whiter.


Now it just looks like a bigger white dick.

Good old meat and 2 potatoes.

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

2 hours ago, Mailman said:

Good old meat and 2 potatoes.

How do you spell chode? That’s the word that comes to my mind 😂😬

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

I’m going to try to be as discreet as possible so as to avoid spoilers, but I wonder if moiraine being cut off from the source will take the place of a certain book story line and maybe she will be the one who experiences the situation and it’s progression instead of the book character(s). I hope this isn’t too cryptic! Just referring to the loss of the power and the way that plays out for certain book characters. I only bring it up because a lot of adaptations condense the narrative by transferring or consolidating certain plot points to more notable characters or just to avoid casting a thousand actors. It’s a practical way to salvage content even though it can seem jarring to the viewer who has a long standing firm interpretation of the story and characters as they know it. 

[WhiteVeils]

That's a possibility that one should be aware could happen. I don't think it will...I think that Moiraine being cut off from the source gives them the ability to explain a ton about shields and stilling and holding and maintaining shields that fits on top of what they showed us with Logain, and that's pretty relevant later on.  But that's one way they could roll things up.

[Cipher]

On 6/1/2023 at 12:18 PM, Elder_Haman said:

What even is this photo? This isn't a still from the show.

So someone super-imposed Moiraine over a scene where it showed this tower shot.  Episode 5 you see the tower exactly like this.

[Cipher]

On 6/1/2023 at 12:58 PM, SinisterDeath said:

I made the white tower in the TV show whiter.


Now it just looks like a bigger white dick.

Still doesn't look like Ogier construction with smooth organic or wave like lines.

[Cipher]

14 hours ago, WhiteVeils said:

That's a possibility that one should be aware could happen. I don't think it will...I think that Moiraine being cut off from the source gives them the ability to explain a ton about shields and stilling and holding and maintaining shields that fits on top of what they showed us with Logain, and that's pretty relevant later on.  But that's one way they could roll things up.

Also it could be how some of our heroines learn about tying weaves off.  Instead of the wonder girls pulling new skills out of their back sides.

Edited June 3, 2023 by Cipher

[SinisterDeath]

On 6/2/2023 at 9:56 PM, Cipher said:

Still doesn't look like Ogier construction with smooth organic or wave like lines.

 

On 6/2/2023 at 9:53 PM, Cipher said:

So someone super-imposed Moiraine over a scene where it showed this tower shot.  Episode 5 you see the tower exactly like this.

That picture you posted was more than just super imposing. There were various filters/color changes to both Moiraine and Tar Valon. 

 

The one I initially posted, is from the show, It showed the tower. There wasn't any reason to add another picture, specially with the claim that it was from a scene you most recently saw. Lol

 

As for the ogier smooth organic lines...

 

Do you really want to see a giant dildo tower on TV? Because that's how you get a giant dildo tower on TV. 

 

The "whiteness" of the tower, as I showed looks absolutely horrible.

 

Making something too white on TV causes the object to lose any kind of detail. The non-white colors aren't "dirt and grime". Thats just how white stone works. 

 

Remember the Taj Mahal?

 

 

It's not so white, depending on where you are, and the lighting. 

[Cipher]

 I watched episode 5 in real time and the image I posted is from the opposite view than the one you posted..  It did not look white when I watched the episode.

Edited June 5, 2023 by Cipher

[DojoToad]

It is as white as natural stone would be.  The color never bothered me at all.  The chonky toad-like shape however...

[Cipher]

I don't consider it a big issue.  The vaunted White Tower should at least be as white as the Taj Mahal.  Also I remember (I could be wrong) that is was described as a smooth, gleeming white structure.  Which I don't get from this unaltered screen shot.

 

 

[Elder_Haman]

@Cipher also consider that there may be thematic reasons that the Tower will look more or less white depending on the context of the scene or arc of the story. Television is a visual medium.

 

For example, in the shot you posted the shadows in the foreground sort of bisect the picture, enhancing the yin/yang themes. The Tower itself is pictured as (1) obviously white, (2) covered in shadow, and (3) with certain bright points shining amidst the shadows. In that one shot, you have a visual description of the state of the Tower and its politics as the story begins. The way the Tower is lit in these larger shots will probably change in ways to reflect the ebbs and flows of power throughout the series.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Elder_Haman