Will the show be good? Our hopes and concerns

[Harldin]

2 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

Level of anticipation - 10/10. I'll watch the minute I am able to and definitely will binge the first three episodes. I'm guessing I'll end up watching them twice. I haven't invested the nearly the last three years following the show to not.

 

Confidence in the quality - 8/10. This is not going to be Shannara Chronicles or Legend of the Seeker type dreck. At worst, it will be on par with Shadow & Bone or His Dark Materials. Breaking it down further based on the trailers, clips and other promotional materials:

• Cinematography: 10/10
• Costumes/design: 9/10
• VFX: 8/10 [love the monsters, mostly like the weaves]
• Acting: ?
• Writing: ?
• Editing: ?

Obviously, the last three components are really important to making a good show. And we have scant evidence upon which to base judgments. Thus far, the castings seem great. I've had no problem adjusting my head canon to match the main 7 people.

• Rosamund Pike: I love her as Moiraine already. She has the steely determination, the charm, the ruthlessness, the imperiousness and the presence. I don't care at all about her height.
• Daniel Henney: Too early to say. I don't hate him, but I haven't seen enough to know whether I'll like him as Lan. I need a larger sample his physicality and to see how he interacts with the kids before I can make a judgment.
• Josha Stradowski: Physically, they nailed this casting. Everything I've seen from him makes me think he understands the character. He's a capable actor from what I've seen, and from the little we've seen he seems to have a good amount of subtlety.
• Madeleine Madden: Love her. She really seems to have the perfect temperament. And she's beautiful.
• Zoe Robbins: When castings were announced, she was the one that I disliked the most. Having seen her in action, I've done a total 180. She looks fierce and she hit all the right notes in the cast interviews.
• Marcus Rutherford: I like what I've seen so far. He's got a cautious, steady cadence that absolutely seems to match Perrin. 
• Barney Harris: No idea. Have seen very little. It's a bit of a red flag that he was replaced after only one season.

It will really all come down to the writing and the editing. Having seen neither, I can't really offer a judgment.

 

I will say that I am concerned about a couple of things:

• The potential for degendering the One Power. I hate it. It would be lore breaking to the extent that it would not be the Wheel of Time. Saidar and saidin and the resulting gender essentialism is really the key feature of the magic system. If it is actually removed, I would consider bailing completely. That being said, I'm very confident that they will not do that.
• I don't love Perrin being married and really do not like the idea of Perrin killing his wife. This is one of those changes that could work, but will have to be executed perfectly. How this is handled will give me a really good idea of the quality of writing to be expected. 
• I don't like the idea of the Cauthons being written as ne'er do wells. Like Perrin's wife, I can see ways to make this work, but it will be difficult to pull off correctly.  
• I do not want them to make Min into a trans character. That would be a jarring change of her character for me. 

  

I could nearly have written this post myself, agree with just about every point.

[Ralph]

2 hours ago, Katherine said:

 

Interesting. 

 

Well....... 

 

Don't know anything about her as an actress, but I think she looks AMAZING as Min, and I can't wait to see her on screen. 

 

I am also interested to see how they will show her ability to see people's auras.

Where have we seen her as Min? 

[Pandemonium]

17 hours ago, Deadsy said:

 

 

There's no evidence that the things you're concerned about it (e.g. choosing between saidar/saidin) have more than a 0.1% chance of happening.

we don't know yet if the one power will even have a gender component.  are they going to have saidin or saidar or just a one power that can be universally channeled regardless of gender (which would be most non binary friendly)?  that isn't known yet as far I know.  if gender is taken out all kinds of wild things are possible, including differences in channeling based on gender preferences.  If the one power doesn't have a gender component then they probably won't be using the Lew Therin banner with the yin&yang.  

 

 

[Kudzu]

They are definitely using the yin yang. We've seen it many times already.

 

While they haven't specifically talked about the power having gendered halves. They have shown male channeling being tainted and talked about male channelers going mad. So it's already gendered, why would they remove Saidin and Saidar and invent a new reason male channeling is tainted?

[Deadsy]

4 hours ago, Pandemonium said:

we don't know yet if the one power will even have a gender component.  are they going to have saidin or saidar or just a one power that can be universally channeled regardless of gender (which would be most non binary friendly)?  that isn't known yet as far I know.  if gender is taken out all kinds of wild things are possible, including differences in channeling based on gender preferences.  If the one power doesn't have a gender component then they probably won't be using the Lew Therin banner with the yin&yang.  

 

So, like I said, there is close to zero evidence so far that your concerns, born out of your assumption (which you have stated as a fact but is only an opinion) that the creators have a certain agenda, will come to fruition.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Deadsy

[Tim]

I tend to think saidin and saidar as separate things will be kept - if only because if they junked it they'd need to concoct a replacement explanation for the taint - but it just won't be talked about much. Given the limitations on the amount of lore the writers will be able to get into in a TV show, I think all they really need to do is get across to viewers is that, as a result of the split:

 

(a) male channelers go mad due to the taint;

 

and

 

(b) female channelers cannot teach male channelers. 

 

The aspect of the saidin / saidar split that feels most old-fashioned is that men wrestle with saidin whereas women submit to saidar, but while that feeds into (b) above I think it's not necessary for it, and again without access to the characters' thoughts it just would not be something that comes up a lot.

 

I think they'll be focusing on how to effectively convey the feel of the taint for the male channelers.

 

 

[Deadsy]

20 minutes ago, Tim said:

I tend to think saidin and saidar as separate things will be kept - if only because if they junked it they'd need to concoct a replacement explanation for the taint - but it just won't be talked about much. Given the limitations on the amount of lore the writers will be able to get into in a TV show, I think all they really need to do is get across to viewers is that, as a result of the split:

 

(a) male channelers go mad due to the taint;

 

and

 

(b) female channelers cannot teach male channelers. 

 

The aspect of the saidin / saidar split that feels most old-fashioned is that men wrestle with saidin whereas women submit to saidar, but while that feeds into (b) above I think it's not necessary for it, and again without access to the characters' thoughts it just would not be something that comes up a lot.

 

I think they'll be focusing on how to effectively convey the feel of the taint for the male channelers.

 

 

It's possible they won't talk about saidin until we get to Logain. If they don't talk about it at that point, then it maybe isn't in the story, so I wonder how the cleansing would work - I guess they'd just be removing the taint from the One Power when men channel it. 

But the idea that someone can choose whether they're a male channeler or female channeler and that determines whether it's tainted and they go mad is a non-starter.

[DojoToad]

1 hour ago, NightWolf said:

I won't watch this because of personal reasons, which stems largely from guaranteed mistranslations. What I mean by this is that when someone reads a novel, depending on the author's detail, you as the reader are granted certain luxuries of interpretation. The detail on the pages still offer you the freedom to take those descriptions and formulate a visual representation (and personal emotional experience) from the narrative. When those experiences are placed on a screen, then you automatically lose some (if not all) of your personal interpretations. It becomes someone else's experience. 

 

To a large degree, it's isn't the fault of those that produce the show (unless they purposely ignore source/fans) but it only allows the visions of the makers (general term) to be portrayed. For me, I want my childhood experiences when I first read the series back when they were being published to be recreated on the big screen... and that is an absolute impossibility unless I was the producer, director and screenwriter. I'm not and never will be that talented.

 

So I will hard pass and preserve my fond memories, thus saving myself from the pain of unwarranted harsh judgement and petty nitpicking. It isn't fair for me, for the fellow fans and certainly not for the makers. I wish you all the best.

Enjoy your memories and may you relive them many times.  I will enjoy my memories of the books long after the show is done and forgotten (assuming I'm still breathing).  But I will also have memories of a show that I think I will enjoy in another way.  To each their own.

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

For me, I really think the show will be pretty good ... IF I simply take a strong blow to the head this next week & forget everything I know about WoT. 

 

I'm 100% convinced at this point that comparison will be the death of joy for all fans. 

 

Even if you just watched the latest two teasers what would be clear is that: A) Even Nynaeve is a DR candidate in the show & B) Aiel are going to be different [killing unveiled]??? 

 

BUT.

 

If I had never read the books ... There are some gorgeous shots. Stuff looks really cool. 

Who is the Dragon? I have no idea...I've never read the books.

 

As somebody who has read the books if I'm comparing at this point ... I'm pretty upset.

[DojoToad]

24 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

For me, I really think the show will be pretty good ... IF I simply take a strong blow to the head this next week & forget everything I know about WoT. 

 

I'm 100% convinced at this point that comparison will be the death of joy for all fans. 

 

Even if you just watched the latest two teasers what would be clear is that: A) Even Nynaeve is a DR candidate in the show & B) Aiel are going to be different [killing unveiled]??? 

 

BUT.

 

If I had never read the books ... There are some gorgeous shots. Stuff looks really cool. 

Who is the Dragon? I have no idea...I've never read the books.

 

As somebody who has read the books if I'm comparing at this point ... I'm pretty upset.

I compare LotR books to the movies and enjoy them both while noting the differences.  Different doesn't have to be from the Dark One.  It may be, but it doesn't have to be.

[DaddyFinn]

32 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

Even if you just watched the latest two teasers what would be clear is that: A) Even Nynaeve is a DR candidate in the show & B) Aiel are going to be different [killing unveiled]??? 

A) No.

B) Because veils can't come off during battle? Because her face is important in the future? There's no evidence that the aiel will never use a black veil.

[hatsoff]

Yeah, things don't look good.  The current climate of making tv shows is perhaps worse than ever.  Also, remember that we liked these things as kids.  I think if I had been any older when Memory of Light finally came out, I wouldn't have even bothered.

 

That being said, I'm going to give this show a fair shake.  Despite my pessimism, I'm definitely hoping for the best.

 

One other thing.  I don't care if they have a trans character or if Moiraine isn't sure if the Dragon is male, or whatever other nonsense people are up in arms about.  For those of you who care about that sort of thing, really.  I mean, I don't want to just say 'shame on you'.  But, well, yeah.  Shame on you.

 

I'm much more concerned about, for instance, as someone else has pointed out, the actress who plays Moiraine looks more like an Elaida character.

 

I just want this to succeed, and I know that the odds are not in its favor.  So, I am not expecting much.

Edited November 10, 2021 by hatsoff

[Kudzu]

Show-runner who loves and cares about the books. Talented cast. Massive budget. Experienced directors. Excellent composer.

 

I'd say the odds of it being a well made and successful show are very much in it's favour.

[Elder_Haman]

3 minutes ago, Kudzu said:

Show-runner who loves and cares about the books. Talented cast. Massive budget. Experienced directors. Excellent composer.

 

I'd say the odds of it being a well made and successful show are very much in it's favour.

Early reviews are good.

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

 

 

[DaddyFinn]

2 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Early reviews are good.

  Hide contents

 

  Hide contents

 

 

Spoilers are empty for me. Is that a trick? ?

[Elder_Haman]

5 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

Spoilers are empty for me. Is that a trick? ?

Oops. Let me try again...

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

12 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

A) No.

B) Because veils can't come off during battle? Because her face is important in the future? There's no evidence that the aiel will never use a black veil.

 

Did you watch the latest teasers? 

They 100% implied in the latest teaser that Nynaeve is a possible DR candidate as well. 

 

Watch. 

 

Now, is that only for promo purposes? Maybe ... 

 

B) You are correct that we don't have enough context to know what's happening. But, come on, how hard is it to wear a mask (well, then again, a whole lot of small town folks find it very objectionable ... so maybe this Aiel is like - "No. I'm not wearing a veil. It's a conspiracy.)

 

59 minutes ago, hatsoff said:

One other thing.  I don't care if they have a trans character or if Moiraine isn't sure if the Dragon is male, or whatever other nonsense people are up in arms about.  For those of you who care about that sort of thing, really.  I mean, I don't want to just say 'shame on you'.  But, well, yeah.  Shame on you.

 

Shame on us? For what? For not wanting them to make changes that don't fit or aid the story simply to push an agenda.

 

And just to be clear, if they made Eg gay... That could be done well & actually fit pretty well with the story... I would not have a problem. 

 

If they de-gender souls... now we have a problem; because now they're majorly changing the story ... And the fear is ... Not knowing... Why?

 

Are there good story telling reasons for this or is it to force feed us an agenda - that frankly, is offensive and tiresome to me and is usually very poorly reasoned out.

 

 

[DaddyFinn]

3 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

Did you watch the latest teasers? 

They 100% implied in the latest teaser that Nynaeve is a possible DR candidate as well. 

I've watched them all. Nynaeve is older than the rest so how can she be a candidate? I'm not gonna watch a 17 minute video searching for the bit you are referring to.

[Pembie]

From someone who is struggling with the books at this point I only really care about Matt and Rand sometimes I like the ideas of his story but man it really drags with him most of the time I think at least first season will be good with the  Trollope  and set up for the story but after say the first thee books I don’t know 

[Kudzu]

1 hour ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

Did you watch the latest teasers? 

They 100% implied in the latest teaser that Nynaeve is a possible DR candidate as well. 

Are you talking about Nynaeve emerging from the the blood shaped in the dragons fang, or is there something more overt that I've missed? If the former I think it's a bit of a reach.

[RextheDog]

i feel like im missing something here.

 

i havent seen reference anywhere online to Thom being cast aside.

 

i know hes not written out of the show, but hes a massive part of the opening book(and series), but every promo seems to just ignore his importance.

 

im really looking forward to this, i have decided to take myself down the path of just accepting any changes and rolling with them.

 

i dont care too much if Min is transgender. 

 

if done well, Perrin losing a first wife could really actually improve his story arc which is pretty one dimensionaly for long stints once Faile enters the scene, added previous trauma will help that storyline to me, not hinder it.

 

i think the whole 'which one is the DR' will be lost once the show gets up and running.

 

i dont see how putting Thom in the reserves assists the show though, hes so pivotal for Mat and Moraine, if they wait too long to bring him in, the whole Moraine letter thing will seem forced.

 

back to my main point though, what have i missed that everyone is so relaxed about Thom being virtually written out of those first scenes?

 

[SinisterDeath]

33 minutes ago, RextheDog said:

 

back to my main point though, what have i missed that everyone is so relaxed about Thom being virtually written out of those first scenes

When they removed Caemlyn, they removed a big portion of Thom's story/foreshadowing, the works.

 

His only purpose in the first book, is to "teach" Rand and Mat how to "bard" to earn cash to survive.

 

Thom does a Gandalf and fights an enemy, making everyone believe he died in the process.

 

He is still capable of meeting back up with Mat, particularly in Caemlyn whence Mat might get a Letter from Elayne in Season 2 or 3 to bring to her mother, and after he has recovered from his dagger injuries.

[Ryan al'Thor]

4 hours ago, RextheDog said:

i feel like im missing something here.

 

i havent seen reference anywhere online to Thom being cast aside.

 

i know hes not written out of the show, but hes a massive part of the opening book(and series), but every promo seems to just ignore his importance.

 

im really looking forward to this, i have decided to take myself down the path of just accepting any changes and rolling with them.

 

i dont care too much if Min is transgender. 

 

if done well, Perrin losing a first wife could really actually improve his story arc which is pretty one dimensionaly for long stints once Faile enters the scene, added previous trauma will help that storyline to me, not hinder it.

 

i think the whole 'which one is the DR' will be lost once the show gets up and running.

 

i dont see how putting Thom in the reserves assists the show though, hes so pivotal for Mat and Moraine, if they wait too long to bring him in, the whole Moraine letter thing will seem forced.

 

back to my main point though, what have i missed that everyone is so relaxed about Thom being virtually written out of those first scenes?

 

Where did Min being transgender come from? That would be unfortunate.

[DaddyFinn]

33 minutes ago, Ryan al'Thor said:

Where did Min being transgender come from? That would be unfortunate.

Kae Alexandre has (she/they) in her instagram bio so people added 1+1=3

[notpropaganda73]

I am actually excited to see if the show explores LGBT+, so long as it doesn't fundamentally the story of Rand and the Dragon Reborn, I think bringing in non-binary and trans characters would enrich the world of WoT more than detract from it. Comments such as "all the men would just choose saidar" really actually highlights why such a storyline would be necessary as it fundamentally misunderstands a trans persons' identity. Nobody chooses it. 

 

I am excited to see the more horror-elements played up, it seems as though Winternight is a core part of the first episode and the Trollocs look fantastic. I think it will be great if they lean into that aspect of things early on as the EFers head out in to the world. 

 

I am worried about the acting and dialogue coming off as clunky or awkward, but that's just something that will always worry me (I was disappointed with the BBC's His Dark Materials in this regard, especially in S1). 

 

My main concern is whether the show will be allowed to make missteps and be allowed to breathe in season 1. It has great source material and the bar is high, but very often TV shows take a little while to build momentum. I feel as though the knives are out in some corners and any change or mistake will be jumped upon without trusting the show to see things through. I saw this a lot with the latest season of Ted Lasso, which in my opinion built upon the first season brilliantly and did things episode to episode that left you worried they had compromised something about a character or a show, which would then pay off a few episodes down the line. 

 

Overall I am excited, I don't expect it to be a 10/10 show but I also don't need it to be. I expect there will be some things I will hate about it but it's not going to be the version of WoT I imagined and nothing ever will be, as that lives in my muddled brain ?