tv show spoilers S1E5: Blood Calls Blood

[Elder_Haman]

4 minutes ago, RhienneAgain said:

You don't feel than Lan, Nynaeve, and Mat have changed..?

Not really.

[Scarloc99]

8 hours ago, grayavatar said:

Without the prologue or Caemlyn this story is just a bunch of villagers running around the woods with a pretty tower at the end.

With the prologue we may as well stop all pretense and ignore all the work RJ did to hide the truth of the world from us for so long. Yea there where hints but I imagine most readers the first time through didn’t pick up on them because they where subtle. 
 

Having Lewis knelt, flat screen TVs all around him, a metallic type of clothing on, outside the widows showing a high tech land of monorails and flying cars ravaged with no context what so ever just throws the viewer out. 
 

The Shanara Chronicles, See and even the game Horizon Zero Dawn let on from the first scene you are on earth and they are written that way. If Rafe changed that reveal that would be like Charlton Heston landing next to the Statue of Liberty in scene one of planet of the apes. 
 

As for Caemlyn I will ask again what do you cut out? A story arc that is far more important for foreshadowing? To those who say do it later, do you like your story telling to be so linear that a thing is premptied and then in the next scene comes to pass? I prefer far more nuanced story telling as do many of my friends. Those things that happen in season 1 to set up one of the last scenes of the whole series that make people go back and rewatch to see the things they missed. The Bond is one of the key traps set by the dark lord if not the key trap. It makes up the entirety of that final play by Moridin to break Rand and let loose a second Lewis Therin. That deserves more then a line of exposition or a mention the season before. It deserves to sit and fester and build, something that can be called back to to remind the audience. When Moreaine dies Nyn can now ask, has he gone like Steppin, again reminding the audience of that key crux moment. You don’t need to have Rand at the final battle and Nyn yell out, Rand if Alanna dies you will go crazy and want to die because your bonded to her.

[Sabio]

11 hours ago, LordyLord said:

I think this Review below succintly explains the issue with the episode and to an extent the whole series.

 

Its a very objective critique

 

A little to nitpicky with a few things, but she really hits the nail on the head with her observations.  

[fra85uk]

13 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Not really.

So the depressed thief from a broken home is the same character as a prankster-but-honest-at-the-core from a rich and happy family?

They are really two different characters.

[Scarloc99]

10 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Not really.

Nyn no, the Nyn we see is more like the Nyn you get later in the books, she is still stubborn, as shown by her spending a month refusing to interact with Aes Sedai, she still insists that the 2 rivers folk will stick together and try and get home, just as she did in Baerleon. They have pulled forward the indications of romance between her and Lan but I always wondered if that was a story thread RJ came to later in writing. 
 

Lan, killed untold Trollocs, got the group on the road and for a long while hidden from the Trolloc forces, shows anger and emotion when his friend dies, but you can be stoic and strong and still show emotion. The non book audience would I think take a huge dislike to him in if he had remained as he is in book 1 and then struggle to empathize with his journey as a character. 

Mat, it never sat easy with me that a nearly 20 year old was pulling pranks like an immature 13 year old, while also turning into a natural ladies man so quickly. He is my fav character in the books later on but at the start he was one of the most irritating to me. He is shown to be that ladies man early on, I am not 100% on the family changes, but I will wait and see where the story leads. It may well lead to a redemption arc for his father. It does allow us, in just 2 scenes, to understand why he cares so much for children, this will lead into his protective instincts later on with Olver and with the short run time of the series will allow the audience to understand why he connects with him so quickly. 

[Elder_Haman]

6 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

So the depressed thief from a broken home is the same character as a prankster-but-honest-at-the-core from a rich and happy family?

What I knew about Mat when I read EotW:

• Prankster - once let a badger loose in the green.
• Lazy(ish) - tries to get out of helping, but ultimately pitches in.
• Loyal to Rand

Then he basically becomes dagger sick for the rest of the entire book. I got some glimpses of him (through Rand's eyes), but I knew next to nothing about him. What I know about Mat from the TV Show:

• Funny.
• Gambler and (possibly) a thief.
• Cares for his sisters.
• Lazy(ish) - tries to get out of doing work.
• Loyal to Rand

And now he's dagger sick. 

So I see the characters in roughly the same spot they were by this point in the books. There's nothing inherently different about who Mat is as a person.

 

Now, they have definitely changed Abel Cauthon's character from respected village merchant to lecher. But there is still plenty of room for a Cauthon family redemption arc. So I'll wait to judge those until I see how it plays out. But to answer your question: yes, show Mat feels pretty much like book Mat to me - despite the change in backstory.

[dwn]

2 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

What I knew about Mat when I read EotW:

• Prankster - once let a badger loose in the green.
• Lazy(ish) - tries to get out of helping, but ultimately pitches in.
• Loyal to Rand

Then he basically becomes dagger sick for the rest of the entire book. I got some glimpses of him (through Rand's eyes), but I knew next to nothing about him. What I know about Mat from the TV Show:

• Funny.
• Gambler and (possibly) a thief.
• Cares for his sisters.
• Lazy(ish) - tries to get out of doing work.
• Loyal to Rand

 

I'd like to add that he doesn't steal for himself, but out of necessity to help provide for his sisters. And he's obviously deeply conflicted about it.

 

More than once Siuan compares him to her uncle who died pulling people from a burning building, and on Winternight Mat instantly runs out into danger to find Bode and Eldrin. Look at the scenes with Dana, Thom and Helga Grinwell and tell me that isn't laying the groundwork for Mat post-healing.

 

(How and why do I remember Eldrin's name?!)

[Sabio]

30 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Nyn no, the Nyn we see is more like the Nyn you get later in the books, she is still stubborn, as shown by her spending a month refusing to interact with Aes Sedai, she still insists that the 2 rivers folk will stick together and try and get home, just as she did in Baerleon. They have pulled forward the indications of romance between her and Lan but I always wondered if that was a story thread RJ came to later in writing. 
 

Lan, killed untold Trollocs, got the group on the road and for a long while hidden from the Trolloc forces, shows anger and emotion when his friend dies, but you can be stoic and strong and still show emotion. The non book audience would I think take a huge dislike to him in if he had remained as he is in book 1 and then struggle to empathize with his journey as a character. 

Mat, it never sat easy with me that a nearly 20 year old was pulling pranks like an immature 13 year old, while also turning into a natural ladies man so quickly. He is my fav character in the books later on but at the start he was one of the most irritating to me. He is shown to be that ladies man early on, I am not 100% on the family changes, but I will wait and see where the story leads. It may well lead to a redemption arc for his father. It does allow us, in just 2 scenes, to understand why he cares so much for children, this will lead into his protective instincts later on with Olver and with the short run time of the series will allow the audience to understand why he connects with him so quickly. 

That is a big downside to having them go from being 17 - 18 in the book to now being 20.  The pranks at 17 - 18 seem natural and now having them be 20 seems childish.

[Kudzu]

10 minutes ago, Sabio said:

That is a big downside to having them go from being 17 - 18 in the book to now being 20.  The pranks at 17 - 18 seem natural and now having them be 20 seems childish.

 

They are 19 in the books, and according to the timeline on Amazon, they are the same age in the show.

[Scarloc99]

20 minutes ago, Sabio said:

That is a big downside to having them go from being 17 - 18 in the book to now being 20.  The pranks at 17 - 18 seem natural and now having them be 20 seems childish.

They are almost 20 in the books 19 and a half when they leave emonds field 

 

need to learn to read further down from the reply then just reply as someone may already have made my point :). 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Sir_Charrid

[2RiversFan]

7 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

They are almost 20 in the books 19 and a half when they leave emonds field 

 

need to learn to read further down from the reply then just reply as someone may already have made my point :). 

I'll beat this dead horse ?
http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/history/timeline.html

late 978 NE	King Laman killed/End of the Aiel War Rand al'Thor, Mat Cauthon and Perrin Aybara born Moiraine and Siuan raised to the shawl
early 979 NE	Sierin Vayu succeeds Tamra Ospenya as Amyrlin Seat
Spring 979 NE	Moiraine bonds Lan as her Warder
981 NE	Egwene al'Vere born Jain Farstrider disappears
984 NE	Marith Jaen succeeds Sierin Vayu as Amyrlin Seat
988 NE	Siuan Sanche succeeds Marith Jaen as Amyrlin Seat
991 NE	Ravens spy on Emond's Field The Eye of the World - Earlier
997 NE	Logain declares himself the Dragon Reborn
Late Spring - Mid Summer 998 NE	The Eye of the World

[Sabio]

15 minutes ago, Kudzu said:

 

They are 19 in the books, and according to the timeline on Amazon, they are the same age in the show.

In the show it's been already said she set out 20 years ago.  If 20 in the books then it seems a bad place to live if you're 20 and still need ask permission from the town for stuff like to marry.

[Kudzu]

4 minutes ago, Sabio said:

In the show it's been already said she set out 20 years ago.  If 20 in the books then it seems a bad place to live if you're 20 and still need ask permission from the town for stuff like to marry.

 

I'm just telling you how old they are based on the established dates of the events in the books. Amazon is using the same timeline on their website, ergo, Mat, Rand and Perrin are all 19 years and a few months old at the start of the story in both mediums. Moiraine is probably rounding up. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Kudzu

[Gothic Flame]

58 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

But there is still plenty of room for a Cauthon family redemption arc.

Hmf...devote screen time to something that shouldn't be to begin with...?

[Elder_Haman]

2 minutes ago, Gothic Flame said:

Hmf...devote screen time to something that shouldn't be to begin with...?

I mean, when Perrin returns to the Two Rivers he finds it a very different place. Not much screen time is required to show Abell as a reformed parent.

[WhiteVeils]

In the books, when Perrin returns he finds Abel and Tam hiding in the woods, and they go with Perrin to rescue Natti and the Girls.  That reformation story is literally in the book, just without it being a reformation story there.

[WheelofJuke]

Do the changes to Mat mean no Easing the Badger?

 

Because, if so, then I'm out fo' realz.... ?

[Bruan]

1 hour ago, Sabio said:

In the show it's been already said she set out 20 years ago.  If 20 in the books then it seems a bad place to live if you're 20 and still need ask permission from the town for stuff like to marry.

yes... in the books two rivers is an isolated backwoods with some prudish conservative values compared to the rest of the world... I don’t see why they needed to change it.

[flinn]

 For those who keep saying things like "non book readers would take a disliking to Lan"

 

 It works just fine for Geralt. People love Geralt and the tv series. So, the "Lan needed to be humanized" crowd is stating opinions. Lan was loved in the books for how he was, why would he not be loved? There are thousands of named characters in the books, make all the incompetent, butt of jokes out of all those characters and give us the Lan who was one of the best in fantasy.

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

2 hours ago, Kudzu said:

I'm just telling you how old they are based on the established dates of the events in the books. Amazon is using the same timeline on their website, ergo, Mat, Rand and Perrin are all 19 years and a few months old at the start of the story in both mediums. Moiraine is probably rounding up. 

 

Actually ... The horse you're beating isn't dead ... because either you or Rafe are wrong. In the bonus content (Look inside episode one on Prime), Rafe specifically says that they made a change from the books and intentionally "Aged up" the characters - from 17, 18 - so that it would be clear from the get go that this was an adult story.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Wolfbrother31

[ManetherenTaveren]

2 hours ago, 2RiversFan said:

981 NE Egwene al'Vere born

Don't tell Rafe that. ?

[Agitel]

32 minutes ago, flinn said:

 For those who keep saying things like "non book readers would take a disliking to Lan"

 

 It works just fine for Geralt. People love Geralt and the tv series. So, the "Lan needed to be humanized" crowd is stating opinions. Lan was loved in the books for how he was, why would he not be loved? There are thousands of named characters in the books, make all the incompetent, butt of jokes out of all those characters and give us the Lan who was one of the best in fantasy.

 

Geralt is the lead and gets most of the screentime.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Agitel

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

4 hours ago, RhienneAgain said:

You don't feel than Lan, Nynaeve, and Mat have changed..?

 

Yes and no. 

They've definitely been changed in the sense that the timeline has been changed (as I said above - they intentionally "aged up" the characters) and they're obviously (and necessarily) speeding things along character development wise.

 

But I agree with the Elder - I think the core of the characters (from later on in the series) is very much so spot on - they just don't have time to slow play it. 

 

And I'm cool with that. I think Henney did a good job of how Lan would react if he was the sole "designated mourner" at a friend/Warder's funeral (that is what he was asked to portray.)

 

Moving along the Lan/Nyn interest... Adding depth to Egwene/Rand's relationship... Having Matt be the gambler, rogue of later on sooner... Are smart choices (because you don't have 14k pages to tell the story)! 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Wolfbrother31

[Kudzu]

18 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

 

Actually ... The horse you're beating isn't dead ... because either you or Rafe are wrong. In the bonus content, Rafe specifically says that they made a change from the books and intentionally "Aged up" the characters - gave them different backgrounds - because they wanted them to have motivations that would make sense for stuff later on. 

 

I'm just saying what Amazon is telling us on their own website, so it's not me who is wrong. The dates in the pictures line up with the book timeline posted above. So according to that Rand, Mat and Perrin and the same age in the show as they are in the book.

 

I take "aged up" to be more maturity wise rather than actual age (except Egwene, who is actually older). Or maybe Rafe was wrong and thought they were younger, or the website has got their timeline out of whack with Rafe.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Kudzu

[Agitel]

If people don't think 19.25 year olds (early college kids) are immature or pulling pranks, they're a bit delusional. ?