tv show spoilers S1E5: Blood Calls Blood

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

2 minutes ago, Kudzu said:

 

I'm just saying what Amazon is telling us on their own website, so it's not me who is wrong. The dates in the pictures line up with the book timeline posted above. So according to that Rand, Mat and Perrin and the same age in the show as they are in the book.

 

I take "aged up" to be more maturity wise rather than actual age (except Egwene, who is actually older). Or maybe Rafe was wrong and thought they were younger, or the website has got their timeline out of whack with Rafe.

 

Yeah... Any of those things could be the case. I'm just saying that in Ep 1's bonus content he says they intentionally aged up the characters and he even specifically mentions not wanting to have 17,18 yr old actors

[Kudzu]

1 minute ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

 

Yeah... Any of those things could be the case. I'm just saying that in Ep 1's bonus content he says they intentionally aged up the characters and he even specifically mentions not wanting to have 17,18 yr old actors

 

If he thought the boys were 17 or 18 in the books then he was wrong and has only aged them up to the age they already were, which would be pretty funny.

[Bruan]

6 minutes ago, Agitel said:

If people don't think 19.25 year olds (early college kids) are immature or pulling pranks, they're a bit delusional. ?

clearly they’ve never run into frat boys with their first taste of freedom...

 

But as an aside, the badger prank was something Matt was going to do, but Rand’s internal monologue was saying it’s the kind of thing he’d have found fun a few years ago, but not so much now. It kind of shows Matt’s idea of fun is a few years behind their actual age, and that’s ok. It’s part of Matt’s charm.

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

1 minute ago, Bruan said:

It kind of shows Matt’s idea of fun is a few years behind their actual age, and that’s ok. It’s part of Matt’s charm.

 

Upon a reread I actually found Matt to be pretty annoying through the first three books... He's constantly making dumb mistakes & whinging & comes across as still a kid. So I like the change ... And performance wise - Barney is doing the best. It's really a shame to lose him. Wish they would tell us why. 

[flinn]

22 minutes ago, Agitel said:

 

Geralt is the lead and gets most of the screentime.

 Which even drives the point further home. Geralt is a lead and gets more screentime. If they can create a show around it, surely a secondary character would have been just fine.

[Agitel]

1 minute ago, flinn said:

 Which even drives the point further home. Geralt is a lead and gets more screentime. If they can create a show around it, surely a secondary character would have been just fine.

 

What I mean is they have more time for subtle nuance and focus.

[grayavatar]

7 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

With the prologue we may as well stop all pretense and ignore all the work RJ did to hide the truth of the world from us for so long. Yea there where hints but I imagine most readers the first time through didn’t pick up on them because they where subtle. 
 

Having Lewis knelt, flat screen TVs all around him, a metallic type of clothing on, outside the widows showing a high tech land of monorails and flying cars ravaged with no context what so ever just throws the viewer out. 
 

The Shanara Chronicles, See and even the game Horizon Zero Dawn let on from the first scene you are on earth and they are written that way. If Rafe changed that reveal that would be like Charlton Heston landing next to the Statue of Liberty in scene one of planet of the apes. 
 

As for Caemlyn I will ask again what do you cut out? A story arc that is far more important for foreshadowing? To those who say do it later, do you like your story telling to be so linear that a thing is premptied and then in the next scene comes to pass? I prefer far more nuanced story telling as do many of my friends. Those things that happen in season 1 to set up one of the last scenes of the whole series that make people go back and rewatch to see the things they missed. The Bond is one of the key traps set by the dark lord if not the key trap. It makes up the entirety of that final play by Moridin to break Rand and let loose a second Lewis Therin. That deserves more then a line of exposition or a mention the season before. It deserves to sit and fester and build, something that can be called back to to remind the audience. When Moreaine dies Nyn can now ask, has he gone like Steppin, again reminding the audience of that key crux moment. You don’t need to have Rand at the final battle and Nyn yell out, Rand if Alanna dies you will go crazy and want to die because your bonded to her.

Not sure what you are on about. Metallic clothing and flat screen tv's?!

 

"His eyes caught his own reflection in a mirror hanging askew from bubbled marble. His clothes had been regal once, in gray and scarlet and gold; now the finely-woven cloth, brought by merchants from across the World Sea, was torn and dirty, thick with the same dust that covered his hair and skin. For a moment he fingered the symbol on his cloak, a circle half white and half black, the colors separated by a sinuous line."

 

Also described are tapestries on the walls and gold and ivory furniture. He also wears a pale gray cloak. Throw some weird looking terangreal in there defying physics or glowing and you will have the home of Lews Therin in Tar Valon. It would be about as alien to our world as it is to current day Randland.

 

If it was included audiences would know to expect something more from this show than a bunch of people with swords and drab clothing riding around in the woods. The current show is a very generic fantasy show that doesn't meet standards established by GoT and The Witcher. It needs more to set it apart from the rest of the new shows starting up to target those audiences.

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by grayavatar
italics

[grayavatar]

3 hours ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

 

Upon a reread I actually found Matt to be pretty annoying through the first three books... He's constantly making dumb mistakes & whinging & comes across as still a kid. So I like the change ... And performance wise - Barney is doing the best. It's really a shame to lose him. Wish they would tell us why. 

 

That's the way he is supposed to be. Gets get more mature later in the books due to experiences (not age).

 

This is how you make a story interesting. You have immature people and mature people. You have young people and old people, rich poor, good evil etc You need to have contrasts and growth.

 

So far Mat, Perrin and Rand all seem to have the same boring grim personality. There is little interesting about these characters and I feel they will just get more grim and serious. Boring.

 

Perrin should have been most mature because of Master Luhan's influence and the recent death of his family, Rand should have been and average personality changing depending on the situation and Mat should have been always the joker (big smiles and childishness regardless of the situation) until he gets the dagger.

 

Lan is the character that should have been grim based on his life experiences. A rock for the rest of the party. Instead he is all smiles and touchy feely nonsense.

[NetNightmare]

On 12/3/2021 at 7:03 PM, TheDreadReader said:

Just because they took a different route it doesn't always mean that the destination changes.

Journey before Destination ....Radiant ?

[Ralph]

1 hour ago, grayavatar said:

 

That's the way he is supposed to be. Gets get more mature later in the books due to experiences (not age).

 

This is how you make a story interesting. You have immature people and mature people. You have young people and old people, rich poor, good evil etc You need to have contrasts and growth.

 

So far Mat, Perrin and Rand all seem to have the same boring grim personality. There is little interesting about these characters and I feel they will just get more grim and serious. Boring.

 

Perrin should have been most mature because of Master Luhan's influence and the recent death of his family, Rand should have been and average personality changing depending on the situation and Mat should have been always the joker (big smiles and childishness regardless of the situation) until he gets the dagger.

 

Lan is the character that should have been grim based on his life experiences. A rock for the rest of the party. Instead he is all smiles and touchy feely nonsense.

 

I don't see that they are all the same at all. And Mat is definitely more jokey than the others. 

 

What do you mean recent death of Perrin's family? 

[DaddyFinn]

1 hour ago, grayavatar said:

Perrin should have been most mature because of Master Luhan's influence

Perrin is still the quiet, thoughful and caring guy.

 

1 hour ago, grayavatar said:

Rand should have been and average personality changing depending on the situation

Rand has been called bland and boring. Still, he had the outburst towards Moiraine, he shows compassion and care to Mat, he can crack jokes, he can be serious, he was reading books(spot on) etc.  He has shown he's not just a monotonous dude.

 

1 hour ago, grayavatar said:

Mat should have been always the joker (big smiles and childishness regardless of the situation) until he gets the dagger.

Mat was like that. We just didn't get to see a lot of him pre-dagger.

 

 

I'm not sure if we even watched the same show lol

[grayavatar]

3 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

Perrin is still the quiet, thoughful and caring guy.

 

Rand has been called bland and boring. Still, he had the outburst towards Moiraine, he shows compassion and care to Mat, he can crack jokes, he can be serious, he was reading books(spot on) etc.  He has shown he's not just a monotonous dude.

 

Mat was like that. We just didn't get to see a lot of him pre-dagger.

 

 

I'm not sure if we even watched the same show lol

I get what you are saying. I'm just not seeing enough contrast between them. I think the main reason for that is because we haven't seen much of them and much of the initial character buidling has been skipped.

We see weeks of travel time summed up in a single sentence mentioned in passing. "oh Thom told me about this inn." From watching the show I feel like Thom has barely spoken to Rand at all. At least he got some 1 on 1 time with Mat when cutting down the Aiel corpse but even that is too little.

 

I think maybe including Bayle Domon and his boat could have given the trio some discusion time. It wouldn't even really impact the budget of the show. Just reuse the barge from ep1 and put sides on it.

[Scarloc99]

6 hours ago, grayavatar said:

Not sure what you are on about. Metallic clothing and flat screen tv's?!

 

"His eyes caught his own reflection in a mirror hanging askew from bubbled marble. His clothes had been regal once, in gray and scarlet and gold; now the finely-woven cloth, brought by merchants from across the World Sea, was torn and dirty, thick with the same dust that covered his hair and skin. For a moment he fingered the symbol on his cloak, a circle half white and half black, the colors separated by a sinuous line."

 

Also described are tapestries on the walls and gold and ivory furniture. He also wears a pale gray cloak. Throw some weird looking terangreal in there defying physics or glowing and you will have the home of Lews Therin in Tar Valon. It would be about as alien to our world as it is to current day Randland.

 

If it was included audiences would know to expect something more from this show than a bunch of people with swords and drab clothing riding around in the woods. The current show is a very generic fantasy show that doesn't meet standards established by GoT and The Witcher. It needs more to set it apart from the rest of the new shows starting up to target those audiences.

 

RJ kept the description purposely vague so it made us as readers see this world of Lewis Therin as a fantasy trope. 

We learn later on that in actual fact the world was high tech so, either the Prologue makes the world look like it is some sort of Medieval setting, and then Rand sees the world of Lewis Therin and realises it is high tech, which makes the audience very very confused. Or the World gets presented the way it is in reality. You can't have it both ways. I have always pictured that prologue, the moment you know the truth of the world, as specifically focussing on the tiny details so RJ does not have to mention the high tech surroundings, or world. 

 

This is something a book can do a TV or Movie can't an author can purposley not mention the world is high tech through omission, filming it what do you do, pretend like Lewis lives in a castle, he likes things retro and refuses to use technology. Maybe Lewis tells rand, I didnt have tech in my house, so the watcher understands why his home is so archaic compared to the world Rand will see. 

Rafe has said we will see the prologue when we learn about Lewis Therin, I imagine that will be after Rand and we the viewer learn the truth of the world, in which case we will see the high tech world of the visions, clean, un broken, then the flash of the prologue, seeing the world broken, all that tech destroyed, and then that explains how we get to where we are in present age. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Sir_Charrid

[Scarloc99]

12 hours ago, Sabio said:

In the show it's been already said she set out 20 years ago.  If 20 in the books then it seems a bad place to live if you're 20 and still need ask permission from the town for stuff like to marry.

Egwene is 17 in the books she has been aged up to 20, but yes the boys are all 19 1/2 in the books.

[DojoToad]

9 hours ago, Kudzu said:

 

If he thought the boys were 17 or 18 in the books then he was wrong and has only aged them up to the age they already were, which would be pretty funny.

Wouldn't be the only thing Rafe was wrong about.  How about a short ogier that looks like a muppet?  Too bad too, from what I'm reading the actor nailed Loial from his side of things.

Edited December 7, 2021 by DojoToad

[DaddyFinn]

4 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Wouldn't be the only thing Rafe was wrong about.  How about a short ogier that looks like a muppet?  Too bad too, from what I'm reading the actor nailed Loial from his side of things.

I'll gladly take a 7' non-CGI Loial over a 10' CGI one if we get to see him more. The costume/makeup is gooood (hair is a bit too wild) and Hammed nailed his manners and voice ? 

 

 

I know that camera tricks, body doubles etc. can be used to make one seem taller but how much would that consume the budget? LotR had 2-3x budget compared to WoT and that surely helped them.

[grayavatar]

5 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Egwene is 17 in the books she has been aged up to 20, but yes the boys are all 19 1/2 in the books.

Also different places have different rules and traditions, even in our world. I remember the scene from Braveheart where no one could marry without permission from the English lord. Age needn't matter at all.

Besides they are from the isolated Two Rivers and wouldn't even know if there are better or worse places to marry. They don't even know they are part of Andor.

[grayavatar]

2 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

I'll gladly take a 7' non-CGI Loial over a 10' CGI one if we get to see him more. The costume/makeup is gooood (hair is a bit too wild) and Hammed nailed his manners and voice ? 

 

 

I know that camera tricks, body doubles etc. can be used to make one seem taller but how much would that consume the budget? LotR had 2-3x budget compared to WoT and that surely helped them.

How much would it cost to construct some cork platform shoes for Loial, have Rand bend his knees and film them from the waist up. Never shoot them from the side as they did because that was an easy comparison in heights.

[DaddyFinn]

3 minutes ago, grayavatar said:

How much would it cost to construct some cork platform shoes for Loial, have Rand bend his knees and film them from the waist up. Never shoot them from the side as they did because that was an easy comparison in heights.

Is it that easy? I thought it was much more complicated. Surroundings, props etc. should also be different sizes depending on the shooting angle. LotR behind the scenes had quite specific stuff of this

[DojoToad]

7 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

I'll gladly take a 7' non-CGI Loial over a 10' CGI one if we get to see him more. The costume/makeup is gooood (hair is a bit too wild) and Hammed nailed his manners and voice ? 

 

 

I know that camera tricks, body doubles etc. can be used to make one seem taller but how much would that consume the budget? LotR had 2-3x budget compared to WoT and that surely helped them.

I get that, and glad that you like him.  But I think that they at least could have gotten him on stilts.  Loial is not an active character: running, jumping around, etc.  There are times in the book where he does get into the action, but who knows what will be changed for the show...?  

 

In any case, if there is a time where Loial needs to run or pick up his axe they can film him without the stilts and without other characters around (for perspective) so that he can safely do what he needs to do and the illusion of his height is maintained.  Maybe some more camera time, but no expensive CGI.

 

And the looks are just wrong for me.  So he has a broad nose - lots of people do also.  The only inhuman thing about him (from my perspective) are his hands.  He looks like a human muppet with a broad nose and ginormous hands - big fail.

[grayavatar]

19 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

Is it that easy? I thought it was much more complicated. Surroundings, props etc. should also be different sizes depending on the shooting angle. LotR behind the scenes had quite specific stuff of this

 

There some basic things they can do and there are expensive more advanced techniques. I don't think they even bothered wit the basic stuff. Almost like they had a deadline and they said "stuff it, lets just film it and move on."

[Dizzle]

Loial is so short it’s ridiculous, it’s 2021, Bezos can send himself to space, but can’t make Loial his correct size?! Absolutely ridiculous. It makes all his actions in battles, the steddings, the connection to the trees and his entire purpose as a character almost redundant. He talks too fast as well. I think the trees in Lord of the Rings movies are a more accurate depiction of the Ogiers in the WoT books.
 

The pace of the show is horrendous. The show jumps around at ridiculous speeds at times then lingers on completely unnecessary scenes. The pace of episode 5 is how episode 1 should have started and actually taken the time to set up the show and the characters, who are all extremely annoying and unlikable as a result. Rosamund Pike is the shining light and is at least mostly like her character (apart from her being too forthcoming). 

[notpropaganda73]

1 hour ago, Dizzle said:

Loial is so short it’s ridiculous, it’s 2021, Bezos can send himself to space, but can’t make Loial his correct size?! Absolutely ridiculous. It makes all his actions in battles, the steddings, the connection to the trees and his entire purpose as a character almost redundant. He talks too fast as well. I think the trees in Lord of the Rings movies are a more accurate depiction of the Ogiers in the WoT books.
 

The pace of the show is horrendous. The show jumps around at ridiculous speeds at times then lingers on completely unnecessary scenes. The pace of episode 5 is how episode 1 should have started and actually taken the time to set up the show and the characters, who are all extremely annoying and unlikable as a result. Rosamund Pike is the shining light and is at least mostly like her character (apart from her being too forthcoming). 

 

I mean... are you being serious? Loial is shorter than the books so that's it, the character is useless? Really? 

[Deviations]

1 hour ago, notpropaganda73 said:

 

I mean... are you being serious? Loial is shorter than the books so that's it, the character is useless? Really? 

Loial has an odd sense of grandeur (to me) in the books.  He comes off as young and unsure yet also wise because he's looking at humans through a different lens.  This effect is magnified through his height.

 

This isn't grandeur...  I'm sorry about the obvious over exaggeration with my example but I was shocked by the appearance of TV Loial (not in a good way).

 

 

[Yojimbo]

3 hours ago, DojoToad said:

I get that, and glad that you like him.  But I think that they at least could have gotten him on stilts.  Loial is not an active character: running, jumping around, etc.  There are times in the book where he does get into the action, but who knows what will be changed for the show...?  

 

In any case, if there is a time where Loial needs to run or pick up his axe they can film him without the stilts and without other characters around (for perspective) so that he can safely do what he needs to do and the illusion of his height is maintained.  Maybe some more camera time, but no expensive CGI.

 

And the looks are just wrong for me.  So he has a broad nose - lots of people do also.  The only inhuman thing about him (from my perspective) are his hands.  He looks like a human muppet with a broad nose and ginormous hands - big fail.

I seem to remember one shot of Loial that showed his feet and it appeared he was wearing 6 inch lifts.   My wife joked about Herman Munster shoes.   And she was surprised when I told her he was supposed to be an entirely different species too.   She just didn't see it, except for the hands.