Trailer Drops Tomorrow

[Thrasymachus]

If it were my favorite fantasy series of all time, I might be excited too.  But there's nothing of the Wheel of Time in this, or anything they've shown us almost since the cast reveal.  I shouldn't be surprised, ElderHaman, that you forgot that I did support this show up through that point.  Convenient memory is a symptom of irrational attachment.  Indeed, I even liked the Winespring Inn reveal.  But you're right, not since they've started showing us how unique and different their takes on things were going to be, when it became clear that we were getting Rafe Judkins' very expensive re-imagining of the Wheel of Time, rather than a faithful TV adaptation of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time.

 

And this division is not inevitable.  Good, faithful adaptations largely unify their fans.  LotR's did.  It can even catapult that fandom, like Iron Man's did.  I'm sorry we're not getting that.  It seems the universal thread to successful, already semi-popular IP adaptations is to respect the already established fans, but that ship has long sailed. 

 

But travesties of an adaptation can unify fans of an original work too.  And the value of the original work will survive, and can even thrive.  Just ask Avatar: The Last Airbender.  And I don't think any other major studio could look at the interest generated in this show and, should it fail due to being too different to excite the existing fans and too [insert flaw here] for everybody else, think that there's not enough interest in a Wheel of Time adaptation.  And perhaps Amazon, still a young media producing company, may learn from these mistakes.

 

And believe me, it's no fun to be on this end of it either.  I would much rather be waiting with anticipation for an adaptation that was going to respect the story and the author of this story, including among his greatest traits as an author: his vivid and exacting descriptiveness and descriptions, enabling the reader to see his characters and settings as real people and real places.  To the point where many consider it to be almost a flaw.  And it doesn't really matter that that whole illusion of reality he painted crumbles beneath a few minutes of careful thought, requiring the bracing of speculation and head-canon to maintain itself, because that vividness, those descriptions, had already captured your imagination, making that speculation not just fun on it's own and necessary for the suspension of disbelief but more than worth it.

 

But given what I know, and what's been reasonably and unreasonably speculated, and which of those speculations have born out and which have not, it's not enough to just expect that this show will fail.

[CaddySedai]

To each their own, I still have faith that the series and the strength of the world will survive and thrive. 
 

I can only hope it successfully sticks the landing because I do so terribly love all things Wheel. 

 

There is no other way for me to react to it. 

 

And I hope that somehow when its released in its entirety we all see it and go wow, that was pretty good - because I love people finding joy in life. 

 

The nice thing about life is that we are all different though and your views and opinions can exist simultaneously with mine. 

 

And at the end of the day at least one of us will be pleased. Thats 50/50, hard to get better odds than that lol. 

 

 

[CaddySedai]

And conversations like this (when they happen - see lotr and star wars in my longer post) help solidify my personal viewpoint that all content is good content. This convo is good content :3

 

The game. Good content

the ttrpg. Good content

series. good content. 

 

I hope to add many more bits of good content before I am done in life lol. 

 

Also perhaps my own permissiveness of changes to the story comes from being part of the RP here in the past. We deviated… hard. All the time. Hehe.

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, CaddySedai said:

would one wish the collapse of the first true attempt to bring our stories to a new medium for better or worse just to preserve some form of purity?

I believe there are those who don't really care about the purity of the written material. They really just want to watch the world burn. 

[CaddySedai]

7 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

I believe there are those who don't really care about the purity of the written material. They really just want to watch the world burn. 

Ah explains why Im here then - Greens always present at Tarmon Gai’don lol. 

 

Either that or I took a wrong turn somewhere. 

Edited September 11, 2021 by CaddySedai

[Guire]

3 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

I believe there are those who don't really care about the purity of the written material. They really just want to watch the world burn. 

Before a few years ago I think I had an overly optimistic view of people. Feels like those cracks on the seals are weakening everyday a little and the Watch it all Burn Peeps are rising to the surface.  Just encountered a cute little baby the parents named Lucifer.  Talk about setting yourself up for an angry teenager

[Elder_Haman]

Interesting @Thrasymachusthat you cite LotR as an example of an adaptation done well. 
 

As recently as yesterday, Brandon Sanderson favorably compared the changes Rafe made in WoT to the ones Jackson made in LotR. 
 

So I guess my question is: why can’t you at least keep an open mind about it given that the actual author of the last three books seems to think it’s pretty good?

Edited September 11, 2021 by Elder_Haman

[king of nowhere]

2 hours ago, Thrasymachus said:

And this division is not inevitable.  Good, faithful adaptations largely unify their fans.  LotR's did.

 

nope.

I'm not a fan and I'm not much aware of the inner workings of the fandom, but I know for a fact many were mad about tom bombadil left out. (incidentally, i never liked him). and I can safely bet that many fans also disliked the changes in characterization, how some storylines were expanded and other abandoned.

You can't appease everyone.

 

also, you praise lotr for being "faithful", but from what we've seen so far - and keep in mind, it's really not much - we have no indication that wottv will be any less faithful than lotr. from what we can see so far, they added a bunch of minor elements to introduce in a visual way stuff that in the book was explained, they shortened some plot elements, they moved a few things around. no more and no less than what lotr did.

 

my impression is that you just got mad that the props are not faithful. From the way you describe, the way you go at lenght about jordan's description, it is clear you are very visually-oriented; those descriptions did something for you, and you were able to imagine things in detail. And when they were not faithful to that part of the story, you became the show's greatest detractor. To the point of denying its other merits.

 

I am not visually oriented, those descriptions mostly got over my head, i've never been able to imagine stuff. no matter how accurate the description, i can see the characters in my head, but if i focus on the details, they are blank shapes. Blank faces, undefined clothes, the characters i see in my head are just shapes. and while i'm probably at the opposite end of the spectrum, it seems most people don't share your fascination with exacting descriptions.

 

take that factor away, and there's really not much to judge. Sure, a bunch of mostly unconnected visuals. Some I like, some I don't, none of them could be seen clearly enough to judge anyway. A few plot points, with no details. There are changes, sure, but we all know changes are necessary when adapting to a different medium. Will those changes work? Having Moiraine stumble upon the fight against Logain will work as a way to show all the stuff with tainted saidin and the gentling of male channelers without info dumps? will it be an interesting storyline of its own? or it will be cheesy, ill-conceived, and nonsensical? Well, how should I know? I only know that the party will stumble on the fight against logain.

 

But while I will give a final judgement only after seeing the first season, I am optimistic for twothree reasons:

- first, the backbone of the story is the same. there is still moiraine looking for the dragon reborn, stumbling on the three ta'veren, leading them away chased by trollocs and myrdraal, escaping in shadar logoth, getting separated; aes sedai rule the world, they suppress male channeling, they show a big unified front to the outside but are actually very fractured inside. The changes may look huge when we focus on them, when we analyze and dissect what happens and what changes and what it means. But they are still small for the overall story.
I mean, if you had a friend asking what's the wheel of time, and you had to sum up the story for him. Would the book summary and the tv show summary be different? Probably not much.

- second, there's several people who are important to this franchise that have given strong endorsement to rafe judkins and his work. Not some polite empty statement, they had genuine enthusiasm. Sanderson is my favourite writer, if he says that the plot is good, I am inclined to trust him until proven otherwise

- third, there are tens of millions invested in the first season. And before work on the first season was even finished, the producers already greenlit the second season - investing more tens of millions. That's big money, and the people making those decisions are not dumbasses. If they are willing to pull out cash for the second season before the first one aired, they are pretty confident it's going to be a success. And they must have good reasons for this confidence. Which means that, while it may end up not being too faithful to the books, wottv is pretty much guaranteed to at least be entertaining.

 

I'm here to be entertained, without any particular expectation. I'm pretty sure wottv will at least clear that mark

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

I honestly like the way you write @Thrasymachus ... And you passionately love the books. I love that. 

 

I appreciate your opinions - they generate good discussion and you make good points. 

 

I was with you - a lot of the time - at the beginning. 

 

But... Then it became clear to me that you really do WANT the show to fail. And that's where we parted ways. 

 

I feel much the same as Miss CaddySedai. Even if WoTTV is ...as bad as that pilot episode. At least it's something. At least 10 million ppl are hyped and because of the show will read some books. 

 

And I reeeallly want the show to be good. I want it to be Stars Wars big. 

How awesome would that be for us DM'ers? Even purists like you who will hate the show even if it's entertaining and becomes huge. People will read you on here and be convinced... They were not at all faithful to RJ's WoT. Probably your best point is that RJ described everything in detail (which you're right, I have always considered that a WoT weakness). Because "brevity is the soul of whit". And I prefer imagination. 

 

But the trailer gives me hope that these dreams are possible. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

Now ... Back to the trailer itself.

What are y'all's favorite images from it? 

 

For me, it's the Trollocs & the Fade. And the wolf growling. They're even better than I imagined.

 

Because with the Trollocs it tells me the costuming and CGI is gonna be mostly very good. 

 

And the wolf tells me that Perrin isn't going to be majorly, majorly changed - and the wolves will look good and not be bad CGI wolves. 

[Guire]

Alright real talk here Thrasymachus.  As soon as you see Mat grab that dagger you are going to be onboard.  No matter how much they change or fiddle with characters you are going to want to watch all these scenes that have been in your head for years.  You may hate watch but I bet you won't be able to turn away.

[CaddySedai]

10 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

Even if WoTTV is ...as bad as that pilot episode. At least it's something. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That thing is pretty much our Star Wars Christmas Special. 

 

With less Wookies but somehow just as much bewilderment. 

 

lol

[Guire]

1 minute ago, CaddySedai said:

 

That thing is pretty much our Star Wars Christmas Special. 

 

With less Wookies but somehow just as much bewilderment. 

 

lol

I have never been able to watch Winter Dragon. And I loved Star Wars Christmas Special.  Just never rewatched it after TV airing so I can still LOVE it.

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

2 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

That thing is pretty much our Star Wars Christmas Special. 

 

With less Wookies but somehow just as much bewilderment. 

 

LOL. 

 

After seeing this trailer, we know FOR SURE, that it'll be better than that. 

 

It's gonna be entertaining. 

Some will hate it. 

Some will love it. 

No matter what... The Wheel Keeps Turning

[CaddySedai]

1 minute ago, Guire said:

Alright real talk here Thrasymachus.  As soon as you see Mat grab that dagger you are going to be onboard.  No matter how much they change or fiddle with characters you are going to want to watch all these scenes that have been in your head for years.  You may hate watch but I bet you won't be able to turn away.

 

Well thats not entirely fair. One may hate it just as much too at that moment. And its entirely valid and right that they can feel that way. 

 

It is my sincerest hope however that you are right and there is that feeling. 

 

I wish it to happen to everyone. Even if the trigger is a different place. 

 

I want everyone to have the feeling I had… walking in to Episode 1 of Star Wars. Hearing that Leitmotif bu John Williams and having all my hopes and dreams and years of growing up and actively reading and roleplaying in the Star Wars community just explode into what visually may have been some kind of cringy.. shaking with joy kind of thing I did. Lol. 

 

I want that. For me I hope it comes just as abruptly when the Wheel of Time first appears with hopefully an appropriate musical score. 

 

But its ok if it doesn’t. Its ok if you hate it to its core. 

 

My only issue is the reveling in and wishing for failure before the cookies are even baked. 

[CaddySedai]

And to clarify. I freaking hate Episode 1. Still didn’t stop my joy and fanglowing lol. And I appreciate it for still being Star Wars. Bad Star Wars. Still Star Wars lol. 

 

I remember that day clearly. I was seated next to Darth Vader, a Stormtrooper, an abnormally large Yoda, and an anthropomorphic yellow chicken. 

[Guest Wolfbrother31]

If you freeze the trailer at 1:44. 

Lan with his sword in the gut of a Trolloc.

 

Ah. 

 

Perfecto. 

 

What an image. 

Exactly as a Trolloc should be. 

 

Only missing is...Lan's iconic book cover helmet and armor. 

[CaddySedai]

25 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

Now ... Back to the trailer itself.

What are y'all's favorite images from it? 

 

For me, it's the Trollocs & the Fade. And the wolf growling. They're even better than I imagined.

 

Because with the Trollocs it tells me the costuming and CGI is gonna be mostly very good. 

 

And the wolf tells me that Perrin isn't going to be majorly, majorly changed - and the wolves will look good and not be bad CGI wolves. 

 

My favorite thing was when Moriaine hadouken’d with the One Power. lol

[Taishar Hawaii]

1 hour ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

If you freeze the trailer at 1:44. 

Lan with his sword in the gut of a Trolloc.

 

Ah. 

 

Perfecto. 

 

What an image. 

Exactly as a Trolloc should be. 

 

Only missing is...Lan's iconic book cover helmet and armor. 

Ha! Hey now, that cover is what first encouraged me to pick up the book. Many years later, still a complete nerd for all things WOT.

[Taishar Hawaii]

1 hour ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

Now ... Back to the trailer itself.

What are y'all's favorite images from it? 

 

For me, it's the Trollocs & the Fade. And the wolf growling. They're even better than I imagined.

 

Because with the Trollocs it tells me the costuming and CGI is gonna be mostly very good. 

 

And the wolf tells me that Perrin isn't going to be majorly, majorly changed - and the wolves will look good and not be bad CGI wolves. 

I have to say, the scene when Egwene rises from the water with the stripes of color, the red running down her right side from her head down, and Rosamund Pike’s voice-over: ‘. . . and become LEGEND!’

 

Chills!! 

[Guire]

19 minutes ago, Taishar Hawaii said:

I have to say, the scene when Egwene rises from the water with the stripes of color, the red running down her right side from her head down, and Rosamund Pike’s voice-over: ‘. . . and become LEGEND!’

 

Chills!! 

The editing for dramatic effect is making me very hopeful they will get some of the big scenes right even if they get altered.  Maybe a shortened version of Weep for Manetheran, Ingtar's speech at Falme, a Tai'shar at the right moment.  The attention to detail will be very important to making this worthy of the books.

[Guire]

Anyone know why Aiel is in crow's cage behind Mat with arrows stuck in chest?  Nod to Gaul scene that may be cut?  Reference to Fal Dara scene I don't remember?  

[johnnysd]

This was a teaser, not a trailer.

 

It is intended to basically show images and snippets of the show to generate interest. It has been extremely successful at that.

 

If you do even casual research, you would find that the story quite strongly adheres to the major events in the book.

 

They literally HAVE to create scenes to explain the world. I guess you could just have a bunch of super long monologues explaining the world. and channeling the taint, etc...

 

But instead they are going to show you that. Show you why a "Dragon Reborn" is something to truly fear, how he is half mad and deserves to be essentially put down like a dog by being gentled. I bet if we wrote down the Top 10 "events" in tEotW, ALL of them will be in the series, with the exception of Caemlyn.

 

I also struggle with how anyone could watch the scene with Rand, Mat and Perrin and not know that they have nailed these characters. And the production values are exceptional. 

 

Anyone thinking this is not going to be a MAJOR hit is not paying attention.

[HeWhoRunsWithTheSpears]

So much negativity in this thread. Guys/gals/whatever - you do realize they are making a freaking TV SHOW out of WoT!? Right? You all act like this is Creator-given. I’m not some studio schill but my lord, the amount of negativity before you’ve seen a single episode. Let’s what until season 7 before we pile on.

 

The Wheel Weaves as the Wheel Wills

[Guire]

Finally starting seeing Tam's sword strapped to Rand in Trailer shots. Very pumped

 

It is hilarious watching younger female book tubers reacting to trailer.  They are like" wait there are good female characters  in this.  All I have ever heard is about is misogyny, poorly written shrills, and male gaze spankings."  I think a new generation will be discovering WoT.