The Ultimate Showdown: PART DEUX - GAME OVER, Town Wins

[Niniel]

@ Des - yes, I know that my activity is horrible. I can´t say that I´m feeling better but I will try to read the thread today. I´m on page 31 right now but need to get ready for work. 

[Ithillian Turambar]

Your point on Amega seemed like a reach tbh. Some will talk about "Town" in a third person sort of way even if they're town. And even if you're right, wouldn't it pretty much make no difference? 3rd party that can help town win isn't really a high priority lynch target in my book.

I don't believe anyone in Mafia games ... because people lie. They lie to stop people looking at them and to stay alive.

[hazelkrs1]

CSarmi is still not posting any real content.

 

He's asking others for their thoughts and pointing out things that have happened, but he's not actually saying anything about what he thinks. It's all very fluff.

 

Another to be wary of I think.

 

This wasn't a reach at all hehe. Very spot on. Csarmi is on my radar, however if he is scum I hope he knows he won't last till endgame with this kind of play.

 

So I got a strong gut feeling on Hally being scum with Dice and moving the Cloud train to help her buddy.

 

Which puts Cloud on non-mafia.

 

I'll have to do an ISO but i m seeing a scum AJ here. I feel as if he never scumhunted. Discarding posts. Backtracking. Long Hydra speculation. Caught down in arguments that don't lead to places. Like no Maffia finding just arguing.

 

I'm wary of Tina. Obviously I skimmed a lot on the last days and thus I might have missed a lot. Will have to check that part. For now I have the feeling that she didn't add stuff and it stands out to me that what she chose to pick was the inane questioning me about what tone is.

 

Mixed on Cloud. He does make a lot of sense every time I decide he's dirty. Agreed with the early Ithi-case on him might fetch notes later.

 

I could buy him being SK actually, that feels right to be somehow. The way he hunts but wanna live.

 

Don't like this post at all for this to be a "serious" post that had your current thoughts. You sort of clear Cloud on extremely circumstantial evidence at the beginning (what could indicate Hallia to be scum from her posts or the NK?). I disagree about AJ - he hasn't been afraid to take the unpopular opinion this game and I think he has been trying to solve the game, is keeping his eyes open @ a lot of things. After that it seems you pick the Tina read out of a hat (or possibly an omgus trap) and then fencesit on Cloud finally.

 

I know Turin.

 

You can use the information I gave you or not. I can't do anything with it myself. Ive seen this behaviour before and so when I see it again I mention it. I know when he's active.

 

Hmmm if you're confident about this, especially when he would have been active and stuff, then yeah I will have to reconsider.

 

Something I immediately thought of is his reaction to you being able to speak still- he put out those two memes... but both are talking about the mafia team killing her, even tho there is strong evidence to support you being killed by a third party, or at the very least by someone other than who killed the other two. Could be a second mafia team instead of a SK.

 

Either way, Turin could have either been trying to distance from a SK kill (by acting like he thought it was mafia who killed Ithi) or perhaps a case of TMI (if he KNEW it was the mafia team's kill).

 

So now I'm thinking that he is either a SK, or on a separate mafia team. Were there multiple mafia factions in the first Ultimate Showdown game?

[hazelkrs1]

 

Your point on Amega seemed like a reach tbh. Some will talk about "Town" in a third person sort of way even if they're town. And even if you're right, wouldn't it pretty much make no difference? 3rd party that can help town win isn't really a high priority lynch target in my book.

I don't believe anyone in Mafia games ... because people lie. They lie to stop people looking at them and to stay alive.

 

 

 

I don't understand what you're getting at here... Amega didn't claim third party or anything.

 

I just don't think it's really a slip to say "I'll help town" instead of "I'll help us" or something.

[Ithillian Turambar]

Coupled with his previous posts - I think it's suspect.

 

I'm thinking in the whole ... I can just only post one quote at a time.

[Ithillian Turambar]

Also re the 'don't buddy Ithi' thing from Cloud.

 

If people agree with what I'm posting then they can post that. If they disagree then they should just say so.

 

To just say don't buddy is neither here nor there really.

 

Do you disagree with me Cloud?

 

I'm already dead so anything you say can't really hurt me lol.

[hazelkrs1]

Dom/Tess

AJ

Mish

Amega

Rags

TG

Lenlo

Tina

Dap

Csarmi

Turin

Wombat

Cloud

RTE

 

That would prob be how I'd group everyone today. Blue = town or would not lynch today, Purp = Null, Red = Would be totes cool with lynching. That's pretty much in order too.

[Ithillian Turambar]

So now I'm thinking that he is either a SK, or on a separate mafia team. Were there multiple mafia factions in the first Ultimate Showdown game?

I think there was only 1 team - but they were hiding in the paired QTs

 

Bad guys are still bad guys at the end of the day though.

[hazelkrs1]

Also re the 'don't buddy Ithi' thing from Cloud.

 

If people agree with what I'm posting then they can post that. If they disagree then they should just say so.

 

To just say don't buddy is neither here nor there really.

 

Do you disagree with me Cloud?

 

I'm already dead so anything you say can't really hurt me lol.

 

Yeah that was a serious point against Cloud. Like I said, he's telling others to stop doing questionable behavior, instead of using that to scumhunt. And I really don't get why he is continuously coming to RTE's defense. Mebbe because of no coroners the scum are much more cool with linking themselves to each other?

[csarmi]

So I decide to make some effort and then I get flak. Way to go.

[ReleaseTheEvil]

So I decide to make some effort and then I get flak. Way to go.

Welcome to my life. Don't worry, it gets better. :nods:

[csarmi]

It's not as if I should care actually. I'm here for the fun.

 

But it's likely I'll be around the whole game so yea I should make myself useful - but I haven't caught up yet fully. Will manage to do so I guess - but it takes time and this game isn't even close to the top on my priority list.

 

@Despo -

 

#AJ - I did a quick skim of AJ's ISO and yea it looks better later.

#Cloud - I'm not clearing it, far from it. I have a hard time buying him town so I'm very conflicted. That's probably why him being SK makes much sense to me.

#Hally - I'm refrencing this post. First I read it as town!Hally catchup but something's off. I dunno, too focused. Paired that with Dice lynched with a not-town claim and that's what my gut tells me. It's a hunch tho. Take it, or leave it.

[hazelkrs1]

The problem is Csarmi as of right now there's nothing to indicate the situation will be cleared up on either Dice or Hallia... so using either one of them as a way of linking or developing a read on someone else is pretty silly.

[hazelkrs1]

 

So I decide to make some effort and then I get flak. Way to go.

Welcome to my life. Don't worry, it gets better. :nods:

 

 

Everyone thinks you're scum. You cool with that?

[csarmi]

The problem is Csarmi as of right now there's nothing to indicate the situation will be cleared up on either Dice or Hallia... so using either one of them as a way of linking or developing a read on someone else is pretty silly.

Well I'm using what I got and point out what I see. It might be useful now... or might be useful later.

[csarmi]

But wait Despo, surely you aren't telling me that we shouldn't try to speculate about the dead players (and use our thoughts on them) just because we don't have a coroner?

[ReleaseTheEvil]

 

 

So I decide to make some effort and then I get flak. Way to go.

Welcome to my life. Don't worry, it gets better. :nods:

 

 

Everyone thinks you're scum. You cool with that?

 

 

Everyone thinks you're doing the beast with two backs with Tommy.

 

You cool with that?

 

Where did your more entertaining head go anyway? 

[hazelkrs1]

But wait Despo, surely you aren't telling me that we shouldn't try to speculate about the dead players (and use our thoughts on them) just because we don't have a coroner?

 

Oh quite the contrary- it's completely necessary for us to have thoughts on the possible alignments of those that have died. The problem comes when you have reads that are dependant on the alignments of those in which we may not get any alignment info on any time soon.

 

In general I don't depend on links and connections nearly as much in a no coroner game. You can't help but make some, you just shouldn't rely on those to help you solve the game.

 

Plus, it wasn't even a strong or self-evident connection you made. And even if it was, that connection might just sit there without being resolved (as in we might not get info on either Dice or Hallia for quite a long time, if ever), for a long time, so you have made a connection on tenuous ground to say the least, and you can sit there acting confused about the situation as long as possible if you're scum.

 

 

 

Everyone thinks you're scum. You cool with that?

 

Everyone thinks you're doing the beast with two backs with Tommy.

 

You cool with that?

 

Where did your more entertaining head go anyway? 

 

I'm MOAR than cool with it. We were feeding each other grapes last night while hunting out endangered species. It was quite thrilling.

 

Now quit being all cutesy about this. If you don't have any plans on trying to convince others you shouldn't be lynched today, just let us know now so we can end you quickly.

[csarmi]

So what's your point Despo?

[csarmi]

Plus, it wasn't even a strong or self-evident connection you made. And even if it was, that connection might just sit there without being resolved (as in we might not get info on either Dice or Hallia for quite a long time, if ever), for a long time, so you have made a connection on tenuous ground to say the least, and you can sit there acting confused about the situation as long as possible if you're scum.

Underline is just horrible.

[Ithillian Turambar]

RTE is now attempting to use the Happy Spammer Defence.

[csarmi]

##vote RTE

[ReleaseTheEvil]

Well, claim now or forever hold my peace.

 

I get info when a certain trigger is hit. I don't choose the info and I'm not allowed to divulge the trigger or that would break my role and I'd get mod-killed. 

 

I know that Dice was honest about his role. Not sure if that makes him worth reviving and we don't know info about the other people we lost but that's another debate. 

 

Town PR, Anti-Towns come at me bro. 

[dapianoplay3r]

Wow

Ok lots of pages to read. I think ill do these in sets of ten.

 

First off, is that an ithi I see? Yay

 

But game wise. There has been no coroner thus far it seems.

Cool. That'll be fun

 

---

 

 

 

Hi

Is actually Day 0 yes?

 

Yeah nobody even has a role PM. This is how I tend to start games now, opening up with a pre-game chat.

It's a good thing I hadn't got anything to quote or case at this point

I woulda looked well stupid

 

First 10 pages

Still no official game start

 

---

 

Yes ... you drive on the wrong side.

and we make tea properly

 

Here here

 

 

 

 

Yes ... you drive on the wrong side.

and we make tea properly

All your tea habits came from us :)

And, you drive right !

and gin and tonic too!

happy days

Only the habit, and the tonic

Gin had been English for years before that

(I really want some gin now)

 

 

TLDR

I wanted to lynch you.I has no vote.

Since the start of this game (literally as soon as cloud posted) you've been harping on about this

If you take this attitude to the game portion of the game (still n0 I'm on) it's extremely biased and uncool

 

 

I hate being maffia.But I don't think you can ask for alignment at all (not and expect to get it).

I prefer mafia. Much better at that then town.

Me too

I find it far more challenging to try keep my town meta but influence the game in slightly different directions

In saying that I really enjoy the challenge of trying to figure out who the mafia are as VT

 

Also, lots of spam. Will be kinda blech for rereads tbh. I know it's a BT game... but you think mebbe we can curb it just slightly? We still have another day till Darthe configures the setup, I don't want there to be 30 pages of fluff on N0 to worry about potentially missing a clue somewhere on rereads and replacements catching up (cause there's almost 100% we'll end up seeing at least one, even tho it IS a Darthe game).

As a replacement

It's not easy catching up

 

---

So after role PMs it goes quiet

Rte asks Csarmi about if he got the role he wanted. I'm not 100 about how you guys got your roles after they were submitted (I assumed they were mixed after) but I didn't find it too scummy.

The thing I did find scummy was how a few people (cloud specifically) try stop despo.

Lol Despo just stahp. RTE asking Salami if he got the role he wanted isn't a scummy move and you know it. You seem to realize this yourself and yet you keep pushing for him.

Despo (while misguidedly) was getting activity and generating discussion. I understand if you disagree but trying to stop him just feels like you want discussion stalled.

 

Then when rte calls cloud probscum, cloud responds weirdly.

 

Red flag

@Despo - I don't have any experience with BYOR games but I'd expect that role info might be important for several townies as well, seeing as it's role madness.

I feel that can be used to justify fishing all game

 

I wonder how many people submitted VT as their role of choice, actually.

I wonder how many of your teammates are planning to set up a vanilla claim.

 

So ithi says she was told her alignment can change, cloud quickly confirms his can too.

Thank god Csamri points out it says that in the OP. I thought people were gunna start naming people confirmed town.

 

Cloud. You need a new fall back line. A variation on "so ....... What are your reads?" Isn't going to cut it

 

Wombats opening post is great. Pretty much concisely saying what I've said above lol

 

Apparently you all missed the secret mechanic N0

Then Pral died.

I feel like that makes cloud look bad. So I feel better about cloud (mainly cos it looks like a set up, not cos cloud has been particularly town)

 

God you bug me cloud. You just say scummy things all the time

 

 

 

EBWOP: And I know that Despo knows his own meta perfectly but I really doubt that he believes the things that he said about RTE.

I don't have to believe the things I'm saying to be town. I push fake or weak cases all the time. Either way there was NO townie motivation in telling me to stop.

What if I was town and pursuing something dumb, but RTE WAS scum? Then you could have judged his reactions after that to try and find out for yourself.

Instead it just came off as you white-knighting RTE. Atm I'm thinking it's more likely it's scum/town with you and RTE.

I agree with this. As town I also tend to hound anything until I have something to get my teeth into.

[dapianoplay3r]

Despo actually had some valid points on cloud.. gonna watch that for abit. Might place a vote on him after he responds.

 

Csarmi is role hinting.. probably some convoluted form of coroner from his statement. Not really relevant tho since the majority have god like roles.

 

The tom and des thing does seem like a town role. i dont know tom, but the way des is acting seems very rational compared to when i saw him as scum

 

Look des i remembered your gender sorta... actually typed it wrong at first, but yea... its progress.

Just the way that sentence is phrased. It is very hedged and trying to play both sides.

I bet with today's puch on cloud amega is right there saying it's just like he thought all along.

Yea

Scummy

 

This would be an invisible tree stump

That hint was so obvious I completely missed it lol

 

 

 

AJ are you dumb

Lenlo are you scum

 

If I say yes will you believe me?

This is the first direct hint I've seen of yours that says your are mafia

What are you up to?

 

Turin claims VT

 

 

 

 

Le sigh, Turin. You once had such a good game. Cant really say it's rust still, can you? Cause really, it's jusy gotten sad.

Maybe his game is actually spot on.. and your taking advantage of his meta on you. And then proceed to degrade his skills and thought process to make him appear irrational.

Just a thought

Nope.

And this entire post is pure WIFOM btw. No stance taken, just a scummy scummy devil's advocate post. FOS.

I really do love you des

You always seem to say what I want to say at people

Amega is just a scummy mess this game

 

Ithi - read these quotes plz and tell me if you were able to draw the conclusion he comes to in the 2nd post by reading the 1st.

 

 

 

Tommy is definitely mafia and Despo is more likely than not mafia.( that whole LOCK CLEAR thing was fibbery) So between the two of you you are a combined most likely mafia.

 

AJ, the point is that since they do share alignment if one is mafia then they both are. So if one appears mafia then they both are. My opinion is they both are >rand to be mafia. That one is pinging more than the other is all I was saying.

 

I don't see how you can't understand what he was trying to say unless you weren't reading carefully.

This is why skimming is bad guys.

I disagree with Turin though. I think des is town, but I think his logic makes sense.

 

Quick thoughts- I would lerve to hammer Amega, Turin, Dice, or Cloud. Eh and might as well reveal this now before it becomes another point of discussion-

The nature of Dom's role (did I just refer to us in 4th person???) prevents me from being able to vote anytime I want. I can hammer, but my vote won't count until then. Tommy is free to vote whom he wants, but we have to vote for the same person. If I hammer someone and his vote is elsewhere, it will remove his vote.

Kinda stinks cause my schedule will likely keep me from being able to vote as often as I would like. Oh well /shrug

And as a quick note- I'll be off the next 3 nights so I might not be as active. Will try not to miss the opportunity to hammer tho, especially if it's Amega or Turin.

I have you as town, but hearing the role explained (wasn't how I thought it worked) makes me feel like one of you isn't.

That's exactly the type of role Darthe would mix a town and mafia into. It would be great fun to watch as a mod.

Gut wise I have you as town ATM (and tommy as more of a null than anything) but, apologies Darthe, knowing Darthe I think you'll be on separate teams.

If he didn't do that I claim that role for my next game with different teams. It would be great

 

been tossing up whether to do this or not but seeing as it looks like if ithi and turin get their way i will be lynched by the time i get home I will.

 

Im not town.....yet

 

but i can be.

 

Like Ithi apparently, my alignment can change under certain circumstances. If those circumstances happen I become Town.

I dunno if this is dice being obtuse but the town yet part was in the example PM provided.

He does hint at knowing more about the changing circumstances than I do (and I'm assuming the rest of the town do)

But it defiantly seems to suggest it's not a cult or role that changes his alignment.

 

Just something to mull over

 

Dice,

1) what's your alignment?

2) what needs to happen to change it?

I suggest that you do not lie.

##unvote ##vote Dice

Thought I'd point this out

Csarmi posts his questions in his way. Information above all else and all. That's cool.

But he then votes after others start voting and someone calls him out. No post from dice.

It seems like he suddenly realised he wasn't going to be hidden in the idle if he didn't vote quick so he jumped on board ASAP.

 

Both Tina and rte also appear and don't vote. They manage to keep their balls and stick to the lack of a vote though.