[Game]: Black Tower Mafia II - The revolt.

ed2funy · October 28, 2013

Starting reread. Haven't really read after pg 21ish.

Turin Turambar · October 28, 2013

A few things that caught my eye...

I believe they might have picked Darthe because of his claim.

They must have believed it.
Either they evaluated that town would tend to believe Darthe as well, or figured that Mat migth have a shiny Power Role. Or both.

Also Darthe is strong scumhunter and now that he isn't distracted anymore, he'd be very dangerous indeed.

Makes a lot of sense for a NK.

I don't like how this post starts out with a maybe the mafia believed the claim and then chose to kill him because of it?

I don't really see what his character claim had to do with anything. The MOD has told us that 1.) the setup is pretty much basic so not a lot of PR floating around, and 2.) that most characters were picked randomly from the points page. So would the mafia care who he claimed? They know he isn't one of them. the "characters" have nothing to do with the roles assigned as far as I can tell. The only PR that we have to base any information about Power Role to Character would be Ley. He hasn't chosen to character claim and has been against it so I am NOT asking him to say who he is. I could not even guess who I would see as a Doc. ( the only other town PR I would really expect in a basic game, any others would be gravy for town IMO) If it was picked in a non-random manner then I would guess it would be someone Tina liked that was not on the staff when the game was made. People like Talmanes, Leelou, maybe Despo. I would include Talya in that list but I think she was staff again when the game was made.

The other thing that you seem to be doing in this post is to setup the idea that Darthe would be leading lynches on those he found suspect. Despo and you to an extent. Talya seemed to push that agenda as well. I don't think I grabbed that post tho. It feels like a preemptive way to be saying that it is a frame job. It reads like you protest to much.

hmm so darthe was honest. I didnt believe him when he claimed matty. Thought he was playing games.

So you nightkilled him just because you were curious?

Imo random character claiming just shouldn't be done for any reason.

What makes you think it was random?

I don't like the way Dice said this. It felt like he was trying to answer Csarmi and his point in the above post. I like even less how Csarmi retorts about the NK. Mafia are frequently the ones that initiate such talk. My theory is that they just can't help talking about themselves.

The second part is just badgering Ley to get him to give an opening to talk more about Darthe.

Darthe's one, at least, but I believe there were two or three.

Oh, Pral of course.

I don't believe Darthe's claim was random. Look what he achieved with it.

vote talya

She seems to have given quite a detailed reasoning as to why Darthe died last night, the level of explanation seems a bit high here

What do you think of my explanation? What makes Talya's interpretation more scummy than mine?

And there we go. More Darthe talk. Feels like too much to me.

Second part: still pushing his view. even questioning why Tayla is more sketchy then he is. ( MTW: don't worry I find you more sketchy than Talya in the exchange. You started the discussion and she kind of followed along. whether she was helping to reinforce your point because she is a teammate or not is unclear)

RTE did you learn nothing from the almost lynch of Ley? quick lynches are not always of the good unless based on a cops findings.

Also modkill probably wouldn't give us a lot of info, Dont they usually just read "soo and so has been modkilled?" no alignment or anything.

first part reads like trying to scold. I never like that. It always reminds me of mafia Despo. And for the record, speedlynches are NEVER a good thing. Even with a guilty from an investifator. more discussion is always better.

I believe that most modkills result in a coroner report. I believe that Tina said she would give a coroner on a random so I expect she would on a Modkill also.

MOD, will a modkill gove a coroner report?

I'm town. I win with town. That's the only way I can win.

Yes I think Dice might be scum.

I really hate the LD I'm town statement. Trying too hard IMO. Especially repeating it in a basic game that is not likely to have a LD. The inverse of the yelling up and down that player X is mafia hoping to convince people through simple word association and repetition.

unvote, vote Csarmi

Off to bed again. very early start tomorrow.

csarmi · October 28, 2013

@Turin:

RTE all but asked me to make that statement. You're harping on this being a basic game is noted. Hint: read the rules.

csarmi · October 28, 2013

As for Darthe - are you seriously trying to suggest that analyzing the actions and connections of the only known town player is scummy?

csarmi · October 28, 2013

There are two known townies actually (shouldn't try math before coffee) , but the point is the same.

Niniel · October 28, 2013

Vote count

Pralaya (2): NotBob, RTE

Talya (1): Via

Dice (1): Csarmi

Csarmi (1): Turin

Not voting: Dice, Des, Ed, Lenlo, Cloud, Ley, Pralaya, Talya

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is Wednesday 9 PM CET

About modkill - if someone breaks the rules and I need to modkill them then I need to look at the situation. I have seen (twice) people that have broken the rules on purpose so that their team will profit from it. That should not be possible. So there might be a coroners report or it might not. The team would suffer in some kind of way. I don´t expect anyone to be modkilled though.

If someone can´t keep on playing then I will replace them.

If you don´t reach a majority at the end of the day then it will be a random modkill with no coroners report.

dicetosser1 · October 28, 2013

Csarmi do you actually have a reason for your tunneling on me?

Other then the fact that I didn't post when you wanted? Or that im a low poster? let me give you a hint...Im ALWAYS a low poster. about the only time i wasn't was when i was the Oracle

csarmi · October 28, 2013

The Dice minicase.

- #3064141 - a nice intro
- #3065068 - Sees why the Ley vote built fast, do learn from history. Calls out Csarmi for saying L-2 wasn't a danger. This post pings a little because of how he plays the all-uderstanding diplomat here. Seen him do it as scum.
- #3065166 - Two easy votes = fact. In his opinion anyway.
- #3066138 - Just can't see Ley false claiming Cop. Yea right. Wary about Csarmi, fence sitting on Basel.
- #3066160 - Still don't care to vote (play, in other words) and the "why rush to lynch omg we already have the cop claimed" is as scummy as it gets. Reasons: slow down, don't play please is maffia argument, also the way he refrerences the cop reveal is just baaad.
- #3066572 - Reflects on Talya calling him out why he don't vote. He still doesn't, btw.
- #3066576 - AtE sounding defense on Des calling him out on his second post. I don't like the tone. Double question marks FTL.
- #3067155 - He says he won't be getting up and places an L-1 vote on Basel. Nothing special here.
- #3067912 - defends vs Despo calling him out on the wifom thing
- #3068541 - "so Darthe was being honest" <-- yea like I said earlier, you were very curious how your night kill would work out
- #3069023 - This post reeks, seriously, you should read it.
- #3069442 - "Why you tunneling at me csarmi"? Meta defense. I can't wait to see you pull RL.

This is not a town Dice.

Can we lynch him please?

hazelkrs1 · October 28, 2013

Don't worry, I didn't forget about this game. Back at work now, so my efforts in catching scum shall be doubled!!!

vote talya

She seems to have given quite a detailed reasoning as to why Darthe died last night, the level of explanation seems a bit high here

I like this post. Talya's post seemed to stand out to me as well.

All caught up. Not sure how informative the lynch nor the NK was but we'll make due with what we have.

Vote Pral. Now let's hope he doesn't just get replaced... Modkilled would give us more info.

Also can't believe you guys lynched "me".

Going to try to be much more active, especially now that I got caught up on about 175 posts...

Ugh. RTE has never been more scummy. Vote RTE.

Why would we not trust a replacement? Sorry if I'm missing something obvious, but I don't get why a replacement would be less trust worthy than anyone else?

Would Pral getting replaced absolve all your suspicion about his play? The player changes, but his role and alignment remain the same.

Wow what a leading statement. "Absolve all your suspicion about his play" is just awful. Assumes that Via, and apparently everyone else in the game, has a great deal of suspicion about Pray. I didn't have any whatsoever incidentally. He's not the only lurker in this game, and was inactive in his other games as well. Just reeks of RTE trying to overstate the collective suspicion about Pray just because he saw a quickly growing train.

@Turin:

RTE all but asked me to make that statement. You're harping on this being a basic game is noted. Hint: read the rules.

As for Darthe - are you seriously trying to suggest that analyzing the actions and connections of the only known town player is scummy?

I think the incredulity in these two posts is a bit overplayed. I did like Turin's points overall, altho I find RTE far scummier than CS atm.

Csarmi do you actually have a reason for your tunneling on me?

Other then the fact that I didn't post when you wanted? Or that im a low poster? let me give you a hint...Im ALWAYS a low poster. about the only time i wasn't was when i was the Oracle

Btw, constantly being a low poster isn't exactly something you should be proud of, or be able to say without cringing. Just means you consistently don't help your team out as much as you could. And you shouldn't post a lot more just because you have a juicy role, makes it way too easy for scum to figure out your role when you're town.

Please don't say you don't post much because of timezones either. There are PLENTY of people who are on diff timezones, or diff sleep schedules like me, who are able to post a lot more with ease.

I understand RL issues tho, and I know a while ago you were still dealing with em. Just sayin, I wouldn't bring up that you are always a low poster as if that was a good thing.

hazelkrs1 · October 28, 2013

But yeah, RTE is uberscummy right now. Talking about modkilling someone AGAIN after already trying to get a claimed cop MK'ed Day 1? Not to mention he was jumping at conclusions incredibly fast. Pray wasn't that active, sure, but didn't really seem like he would need to be replaced or modkilled instantly either.

Then tries to add some fluff to distract from the fact that he had put like the 4th or 5th vote on an inactive within a page or two of day breaking (do I have to mention how suspect that is?)

He rightly got some heat for that post, and I don't like his responses thus far at all.

Vote RTE for scumsident 2014.

Turin Turambar · October 28, 2013

@Turin:

RTE all but asked me to make that statement. You're harping on this being a basic game is noted. Hint: read the rules.

Did he ask you to make it twice?

If you could be clearer about the read the rules instruction. I just reread them and don't see what you are getting at. Or was that a roundabout way to remind me to be nice?

csarmi · October 28, 2013

@Turin:

RTE all but asked me to make that statement. You're harping on this being a basic game is noted. Hint: read the rules.

Did he ask you to make it twice?

If you could be clearer about the read the rules instruction. I just reread them and don't see what you are getting at. Or was that a roundabout way to remind me to be nice?

Nope. NotBob kept asking me about my announcement yesterday (still don't know why), so in the end I decided to post it as clearly and as fully as I could.

RTE asked me if I was scum. What else could that be than asking for an LD statement?

Him having an LD shot is very low, but I saw no reason not to comply.

As for the rules, I'm not sure if you're being obtuse on purpose here. Read the part about what kind of game it is (right before the list of rules).

csarmi · October 28, 2013

Can we drop this "trying to get someone modkilled" argument already? It is disgusting.

First of all, trying to get someone modkilled is neither scummy, not dishonorable. If someone believes another player made a rule break, it is their right and their responsability to bring that up with the mods.
Secondly, when someone has a problem, they'll PM the mod about it. Everything else is gameplay.
Thirdly, it is disgusting because it implies that our mods won't do their job (or can't do their job) properly. It implies that they can't make the right judgement on their own, it implies that they would view an event differently if players point it out on the thread it implies they can't rule fair and unbiased.

ReleaseTheEvil · October 28, 2013

Don't see any reason why anyone would have a problem with stating if they are town or not. Does that worry you Turin? Are you town?

Des, you've been tunneling me for two days. Unless I have a role that directs the mod in what Turin is convinced is a basic game (seriously?) my comments are not going to get anyone mod killed. I just pay attention to details in regards to asking about Ley (it wasn't in the rules) and wanted some info on how the Pral situation was going to play out if he didn't show up. Got anything else to contribute? What do you think about the case on dice? Are you town?

ReleaseTheEvil · October 28, 2013

<p>

Can we drop this "trying to get someone modkilled" argument already? It is disgusting.

First of all, trying to get someone modkilled is neither scummy, not dishonorable. If someone believes another player made a rule break, it is their right and their responsability to bring that up with the mods.

Secondly, when someone has a problem, they'll PM the mod about it. Everything else is gameplay.

Thirdly, it is disgusting because it implies that our mods won't do their job (or can't do their job) properly. It implies that they can't make the right judgement on their own, it implies that they would view an event differently if players point it out on the thread it implies they can't rule fair and unbiased.

Hard for Des to do that given it's all he's got....

Niniel · October 28, 2013

Vote count

Pralaya (2): NotBob, RTE

Talya (1): Via

Dice (1): Csarmi

Csarmi (1): Turin

RTE (1): Des

Not voting: Dice, Ed, Lenlo, Cloud, Ley, Pralaya, Talya

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is Wednesday 9 PM CET

hazelkrs1 · October 28, 2013

Wowwwwww lololol over defensive much RTE? :biggrin:

1. Yes, I am town. I can only win with town, yadda yadda yadda

2. You have convinced me you are scum with that wild overreaction of a response to one vote from me (not counting my early day 1 vote)

3. Tunneling? I briefly had my vote on you yesterday for antitown behavior, and had barely mentioned you much (if at all) till voting for you again today. I've also been off the past 5 days so have not been around really to "tunnel" anyone

4. There is NOTHING protown about asking about a claimed cop being modkilled. There is no way you can try to twist it in a way that is protown.

5. I don't seriously think you could get someone modkilled with the comments you made. Its the fact that you made them in the first place.

6. You waaaaay jumped the gun when it came to you asking about Pray getting replaced/modkilled, and later even operated so ewhat under the assumption that he would get replaced

7. Case on Dice is pretty meh imo. Not to say I wouldn't want him lynched, since getting lynched for activity enough times might eventually get him to contribute more when he plays, just I don't think there's any really good reason to lynch him on THIS game as opposed to any other one. Faintly smells like scum pushing a relatively easy lynch if you ask me.

ReleaseTheEvil · October 28, 2013

So you think Csarmi is scum?

hazelkrs1 · October 28, 2013

<p>

Can we drop this "trying to get someone modkilled" argument already? It is disgusting.

First of all, trying to get someone modkilled is neither scummy, not dishonorable. If someone believes another player made a rule break, it is their right and their responsability to bring that up with the mods.

Secondly, when someone has a problem, they'll PM the mod about it. Everything else is gameplay.

Thirdly, it is disgusting because it implies that our mods won't do their job (or can't do their job) properly. It implies that they can't make the right judgement on their own, it implies that they would view an event differently if players point it out on the thread it implies they can't rule fair and unbiased.

Oh I'm sorry Mr. Sole Arbiter of Mafia, I forgot this was the game where you constantly tell everyone how to play. How would you like me to scumhunt sir?

/sarcasm

1. Their responsibility to point it out? Bullshanks. Its the MOD's responsibility to make sure no one is breaking the rules, and NO ONE ELSE'S. You yourself sort of make this point in your third bullet.

2. Did I say it wasn't gameplay? Its on thread, of COURSE it's gameplay. Its just antitown gameplay. Encouraging someone's modkill instead of focusing on scumhunting, and lynching those that you think are scum, not just someone you think should be modkilled, is a distraction and thoroughly antitown. Period.

3. I never hinted that the mods were insufficient IN ANY WAY. Of course I have complete faith that they will moderate the game fairly and make sure any rule violations are handled properly, regardless of what the players in the game are saying. My point had nothing to do with the mod. It has to do with pointing out antitown behavior. Whether RTE is scum or not, his play isn't helping town, and won't help as long as he keeps trying to act like a mod's assistant and point out possible rule-breakers. But his blatant overreaction to my vote does indeed make me think him scum.

hazelkrs1 · October 28, 2013

<p>

Can we drop this "trying to get someone modkilled" argument already? It is disgusting.

First of all, trying to get someone modkilled is neither scummy, not dishonorable. If someone believes another player made a rule break, it is their right and their responsability to bring that up with the mods.

Secondly, when someone has a problem, they'll PM the mod about it. Everything else is gameplay.

Thirdly, it is disgusting because it implies that our mods won't do their job (or can't do their job) properly. It implies that they can't make the right judgement on their own, it implies that they would view an event differently if players point it out on the thread it implies they can't rule fair and unbiased.

Hard for Des to do that given it's all he's got....

:laugh:

hazelkrs1 · October 28, 2013

So you think Csarmi is scum?

I do think its possible, yes. Less of a scum read on him than you, but he DID come to your defense pretty strongly. And you seemed to have no problem with that.... and now you seem more concerned with my read on him than on you. Why?

ReleaseTheEvil · October 28, 2013

Because given your casing this game you make it sound like the read on me is the only read you have.

I'm not concerned with his "coming to my defence" because I know I'm town. He might be scum looking for town cred when I flip but right now I'm not so concerned about that as 1) I know I am town and 2) I know people are less narrow-minded than you are and won't vote for me because I was worried our claimed cop messed up and might have gotten mod-killed.

I need to find that post where it says how to do those ISOs. Last time I tried it didn't work. Happy we have some discussion going though, but some people have been quiet since day.

csarmi · October 28, 2013

<p>

Can we drop this "trying to get someone modkilled" argument already? It is disgusting.

First of all, trying to get someone modkilled is neither scummy, not dishonorable. If someone believes another player made a rule break, it is their right and their responsability to bring that up with the mods.

Secondly, when someone has a problem, they'll PM the mod about it. Everything else is gameplay.

Thirdly, it is disgusting because it implies that our mods won't do their job (or can't do their job) properly. It implies that they can't make the right judgement on their own, it implies that they would view an event differently if players point it out on the thread it implies they can't rule fair and unbiased.

Oh I'm sorry Mr. Sole Arbiter of Mafia, I forgot this was the game where you constantly tell everyone how to play. How would you like me to scumhunt sir?

/sarcasm

You know bloody well how I'd like you to scumhunt. As Wombat put it, write essays instead of laundry lists.

1. Their responsibility to point it out? Bullshanks. Its the MOD's responsibility to make sure no one is breaking the rules, and NO ONE ELSE'S. You yourself sort of make this point in your third bullet.

2. Did I say it wasn't gameplay? Its on thread, of COURSE it's gameplay. Its just antitown gameplay. Encouraging someone's modkill instead of focusing on scumhunting, and lynching those that you think are scum, not just someone you think should be modkilled, is a distraction and thoroughly antitown. Period.

3. I never hinted that the mods were insufficient IN ANY WAY. Of course I have complete faith that they will moderate the game fairly and make sure any rule violations are handled properly, regardless of what the players in the game are saying. My point had nothing to do with the mod. It has to do with pointing out antitown behavior. Whether RTE is scum or not, his play isn't helping town, and won't help as long as he keeps trying to act like a mod's assistant and point out possible rule-breakers. But his blatant overreaction to my vote does indeed make me think him scum.

My points stand. I just can't express with words how disgusting I find your whole tirade about this modkilling stuff.

*** vomits ***

csarmi · October 28, 2013

Oh yea and you won't find me defending RTE.

hazelkrs1 · October 28, 2013

Because given your casing this game you make it sound like the read on me is the only read you have.

I'm not concerned with his "coming to my defence" because I know I'm town. He might be scum looking for town cred when I flip but right now I'm not so concerned about that as 1) I know I am town and 2) I know people are less narrow-minded than you are and won't vote for me because I was worried our claimed cop messed up and might have gotten mod-killed.

I need to find that post where it says how to do those ISOs. Last time I tried it didn't work. Happy we have some discussion going though, but some people have been quiet since day.

You miss my point. If you were town, you'd be concerned about another player whose alignment is yet unproven galloping to your defense (ie buddying). You saying over and over that you're town has nothing to do with it.

I also like the subtle AtE there.

Translation of third paragraph: please let's focus on other quieter players?! I don't like catching heat for my antitown behavior :(

[Game]: Black Tower Mafia II - The revolt.

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