[Game]: Black Tower Mafia II - The revolt.

[Talya]

Len, if you check back to the vote count before you voted, I think it was Des that voted Basel, then you making it 6 and then Des has since unvoted, so now it is five...

 

but i will check...

[Leyrann]

No need Talya, I remembered it because it already stood out to me.

[Lenlo]

 

Vote Count

 

Ley (1):  Darthe

 

Csarmi (1): NotBob, Basel

 

Lenlo (1): Csarmi

 

Basel (4): Ed, Turin, Cloud, Ley, Des, Lenlo

 

Not voting: Dice, Talya,  Pralaya, RTE, Via

 

 

With 15 players alive it takes 8 to lynch. 

 

Deadline is Friday 9 PM CET. (GMT +1) 

27 1/2 hours left.

 

Oh I see the problem now, my bad. See Tina here has it at 4 people on Basel and when I went back to check I saw this and it through me off.

[Talya]

 

 

Vote Count

 

RTE (1): Des

 

Ley (1):  Darthe

 

Darthe (1): Lenlo

 

Csarmi (1): NotBob

 

Lenlo (1): Csarmi

 

Basel (4): Ed, Turin, Cloud, Ley

 

Not voting: Dice, Talya,  Pralaya, RTE, Via,  Basel

 

 

With 15 players alive it takes 8 to lynch. 

 

Deadline is Friday 9 PM CET. (GMT +1) 

I´m not sure if the summertime mess with my deadline in any way. I think we change to wintertime on Sunday. Anyway, it´s 35 hours and 4 minutes left. 

 

 

 

 

 

My vote on RTE was for him ostensibly trying to get Ley modkilled after claiming cop. Just an unbelievably antitown move. Weird that the only other one to say anything about it was Turin.

 

However, (Unvote) voting Basel seems like the best way to go today. There's ample evidence against him, don't buy that he didn't know the VC (he would have had to know Ley had a lot of votes, if he was worried at all about that he wouldn't have voted him so quick), don't like his response to Turin saying Ley is always over defensive, and he makes a pretty good info lynch I'd say(Dice recently soft defended him).

 

Incidentally, my vote on Ley was a joke vote as well. I just accused him of what he had just talked about always getting accused of (distancing and defending). I even said he was distancing from "as-yet-unnamed scum", which should have made the joke obvious. Anyhoo, fos to any of the peeps trying to scold Ley for claiming. As Turin and Ley have already pointed out, he was essentially in a no win situation.

 

But an even bigger fos for those who came out scolding town for running the cop up to claim. Lenlo is the obvious one here, and uberscummy for that move. I think Dice was the other, can't remember.

 

Also think Talya might have been caught up in a bit of a slip regarding her automatically accepting Let's claim as definite, and not considering that he could be mafia fake claiming.

 

So Basel, Lenlo, Dice, Talya, and RTE all have a bit of egg on their face imo. Mebbe throw CS on that list as well for scolding Ley bout his claim. And all of it came from running Ley up. So I don't thing things are that bad at all, considering.

 

 

 

But an even bigger fos for those who came out scolding town for running the cop up to claim. Lenlo is the obvious one here, and uberscummy for that move. I think Dice was the other, can't remember.

 

 

Was it really uberscummy to call people stupid for doing something stupid?

 

Nothing much, in other words. Dice added for my scummy list. I like Talya's recent posts.

 

@Lenlo - I know you're busy, but care to give your thoughts on what happened so far?

 

Im annoyed at how quickly the cop had to reveal, I find people's saying its scummy to call people out on their really quick run up annoying as well, but atleast its a valid reason for fos and such so I can let it pass.

 

Im good with a Basel lynch and am also good with RTE. I find their crap surrounding Ley, with the not knowing the VC and then the roundabout attempt at modkilling scummy. I also still have a small FoS at Pral for his opening post. unvote vote Basel

 

Puts him at L-3 if I remember right.

 

 

 

 

Desscum is in the house.

 

des

Nope, try again.

 

@Lenlo: its uberscummy to try and look more townie by scolding everyone for something in hindsight. How was anyone that joke-voted Ley (I think the majority of votes on his train) supposed to know if he was the cop?

 

For that matter, how do you know he isn't lying? How do you know we don't already have one scum in the bag by pressuring someone easy to pressure right off the bat?

 

You trying to scold everyone when he brought all the negative attention on himself with that guidelines list is completely unnecessary.

 

Also, your vote on Basel does seem somewhat opportunistic to me (you just parrot what others have said about him), but lastly you trying to stick to your fos on Pray for his first post when EVERYONE else in the game saw that as a joke-post, and Pray himself said it was, is enought to make me

 

Unvote, Vote Lenlo

 

 

If you see the time lines, you will see what happened. :-)

[Talya]

you have just found it I see...lol

[ed2funy]

Oh, Talya, I miss you too!!!

 

But don't let Calami know, or he'll tell Turin.

[Elaevia]

A few thoghts just as I was reading through

 

 

 

Basel keeps digging. Lololol

Turin, excellent. No one should know what I'm doing. Ever.

I certainly do not want to know what you are doing... EVER. So stop posting those pictures on your FB 

 

Oh wow. Looks like Turin gave Basel the perfect opportunity to tunnel his way out with a rope of lies.
LIES AND DECEIT!

How do you tunnel with a rope? 

 

I don't really buy the counted wrong defense.

 

 

cos LOL at the thought of tunneling with rope!

[ed2funy]

Those are your thoughts?

[Elaevia]

@Ed

 

Nope.

 

For some reason I managed to delete the quote box from around the latest one I added to the multi quote, so am redoing that one.

 

I didn't notice that I had also managed to delete the first part of what I wrote as well. It went something like this.

 

 

Just for the record, I'll spell out why I voted Leyrann, just to show how things are not black and white. "I liked where this train was going" for a few reasons:

• I found Ley pinging (slightly overdefensive). Voting for the most scummy read at hand at the point.
• I believed that pressuring him would get some reactions from him that would help getting a better read on him.
• I believed that the train would get reactions from others as well, for instance, the most basic ones would be
  • who leaves the train (and their reasons for it)
  • would someone place a 6th vote, how and why
• essentially starting the game for real right there

In short, I liked where this train was going.

 

 

How come you say this now and not at the time, wouldn't that be the time to say it? 

 

 

 

I feel that Csarmi's first point could have been said at the time he voted. But if you are using your vote to get reactions from people there is not much point telling people that's what you are doing

 

though sometimes I feel that the 'to get reactions' line is used a bit too often when something has been tried that hasn't gone down well with the other players / gone as well as hoped, see a bit of an easy out sometimes

[Leyrann]

Still not a lot of thoughts...

[Elaevia]

 

 

RTE: nudged at Ley but also tried to reassure him by saying don't bother revealing. then questioned the legality of his role claim. It flet like he was trying to set up defending someone he KNEW would flip town. Then a hail mary play to see if he could get him MODKILLED. not liking that very much.

 

Via: interesting list. Not sure what she is trying to say with it. that there might be 1-2 mafia on both those that voted Ley and those that didn't? Or 2-3 of those that didn't actually by her process. Trying to decide if she has extra information to base her ideas on. The rest of her posts were mostly fluff so this one seems out of place. Really torn cause haven't played many games with her.

 

 

Pray: Awesome Despo impersonation. not much else. 

 

 

No extra information from me I'm afraid. But your comment about the rest of my posts being fluff feels odd. Yes, that was probably my first and most serious of the game, but there is a time to try and move on from fluff isn't there? There's just something about your phrasing that is implying to me that you think it's a bad thing that I've turned a bit more serious.

 

 

Interesting that I can't remember anything really from Pral except his impression (your post prompted that thought, which is why I've included that part in the quote

 

RTE bit included cos that's prompting my thoughts in another direction. I don't know what you mean by RTE nudging Ley, but it is a bit weird to bring up a potential modkill for something that's not in the rules. It doesn't mention whether we're allowed to write in different colours in the rules either, but if it was against the rules it would be in there surely? There's enough to worry about with non-existant potential mod-kills and smacks a bit of scaremongering to me.

[Elaevia]

I did say I was redoing some, decided to break it down indvidually so I don't loose as much it it gets eaten again

[Elaevia]

 I also still have a small FoS at Pral for his opening post.

 

 

 

what do you think he was actually trying to achieve with that post if you still suspect him?

[Basel Gill]

basel lynch is eww.

 

Your defense is noted here. (Appreciated... but still noted.) You wouldn't happen to be going for town cred because you know how I flip, would you?

 

How was Ley's superdefensive play a slip, when that is how he normally plays. If you are using that as just the reason for you thinking he was scummy. you didn't say you thought he was scummy when you voted, just that he was 'overreacting and hyperdefensive'

Ummm... yes, I did indeed say that I thought he was scummy.

 

 

I bet if you take down that "guidelines" spoiler window half of the votes on you will jump off

This. I don't mind Ley's guidelines so much as his expectation that everyone else should play the same way he does. But that doesn't make him scum. He came out with all these guidelines before the roles even went out. But in all honesty Ley, this really does rub a lot of people the wrong way.

 

What does make me think he is scum is all his overreacting and hyperdefensive attitude. Vote Ley.

 

[Basel Gill]

Edit to above: my current scum team consists of Darthe, Csarmi, and RTE.

[Leyrann]

 

 

 

RTE: nudged at Ley but also tried to reassure him by saying don't bother revealing. then questioned the legality of his role claim. It flet like he was trying to set up defending someone he KNEW would flip town. Then a hail mary play to see if he could get him MODKILLED. not liking that very much.

 

Via: interesting list. Not sure what she is trying to say with it. that there might be 1-2 mafia on both those that voted Ley and those that didn't? Or 2-3 of those that didn't actually by her process. Trying to decide if she has extra information to base her ideas on. The rest of her posts were mostly fluff so this one seems out of place. Really torn cause haven't played many games with her.

 

 

Pray: Awesome Despo impersonation. not much else. 

 

 

No extra information from me I'm afraid. But your comment about the rest of my posts being fluff feels odd. Yes, that was probably my first and most serious of the game, but there is a time to try and move on from fluff isn't there? There's just something about your phrasing that is implying to me that you think it's a bad thing that I've turned a bit more serious.

 

 

Interesting that I can't remember anything really from Pral except his impression (your post prompted that thought, which is why I've included that part in the quote

 

RTE bit included cos that's prompting my thoughts in another direction. I don't know what you mean by RTE nudging Ley, but it is a bit weird to bring up a potential modkill for something that's not in the rules. It doesn't mention whether we're allowed to write in different colours in the rules either, but if it was against the rules it would be in there surely? There's enough to worry about with non-existant potential mod-kills and smacks a bit of scaremongering to me.

 

 

I always post in green, so they'd have to add that they wouldn't want it if they'd want me not too. I've had a game like that once, actually. It was a bit of a weird mafia game, where dead people could still talk, and they would talk in blue. Hence why no colours allowed.

 

@Basel above: Why are you saying Talya is wrong when the very post you quoted has the reasoning that she said you used?

[Leyrann]

Edit to above: my current scum team consists of Darthe, Csarmi, and RTE.

 

What's with everyone making up scum teams this game? Just look for people you believe are playing anti-town, lynch them, and then see if you can get any more information from it. If person A is scum depends all on if person B is scum.

[Basel Gill]

@Basel above: Why are you saying Talya is wrong when the very post you quoted has the reasoning that she said you used?

I am saying that she is wrong because she claims that I never said I thought you were scummy when I voted you, when I did say that. Saying that somebody never said something in their vote when they did say it makes her wrong.

[Lenlo]

 

 I also still have a small FoS at Pral for his opening post.

 

 

 

what do you think he was actually trying to achieve with that post if you still suspect him?

 

He was either A) Being sarcastic or B) Legitimately attempting to let people know he didnt care if was viewed as suspicious for the post or not. To me its similar to saying to be honest... It gives me a bad feeling of anything that comes after it.

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

Nothing much, in other words. Dice added for my scummy list. I like Talya's recent posts.

 

@Lenlo - I know you're busy, but care to give your thoughts on what happened so far?

 

@Ed - what do you think about Turin's play?

 

@Via - Apart from dividing the players in two groups, do you have any observations to make?

 

@NotBob - Care to elaborate on why you like Me and Len? What do you think about the Turin/Ed love story?

 

1.  You've both continued to stir the conversation around our Cop.  I have a rule as well.  The rule of holes.  When you're in one stop digging. 

2.  I need to re-read that exchange. 

[Turin Turambar]

 

 

 

RTE: nudged at Ley but also tried to reassure him by saying don't bother revealing. then questioned the legality of his role claim. It flet like he was trying to set up defending someone he KNEW would flip town. Then a hail mary play to see if he could get him MODKILLED. not liking that very much.

 

Via: interesting list. Not sure what she is trying to say with it. that there might be 1-2 mafia on both those that voted Ley and those that didn't? Or 2-3 of those that didn't actually by her process. Trying to decide if she has extra information to base her ideas on. The rest of her posts were mostly fluff so this one seems out of place. Really torn cause haven't played many games with her.

 

 

Pray: Awesome Despo impersonation. not much else. 

 

 

No extra information from me I'm afraid. But your comment about the rest of my posts being fluff feels odd. Yes, that was probably my first and most serious of the game, but there is a time to try and move on from fluff isn't there? There's just something about your phrasing that is implying to me that you think it's a bad thing that I've turned a bit more serious.

 

 

Interesting that I can't remember anything really from Pral except his impression (your post prompted that thought, which is why I've included that part in the quote

 

RTE bit included cos that's prompting my thoughts in another direction. I don't know what you mean by RTE nudging Ley, but it is a bit weird to bring up a potential modkill for something that's not in the rules. It doesn't mention whether we're allowed to write in different colours in the rules either, but if it was against the rules it would be in there surely? There's enough to worry about with non-existant potential mod-kills and smacks a bit of scaremongering to me.

 

 

I don't mind you getting serious. I invite it. I just noted that you moved from jokey fluffy posts to a list of mafia here and there that looked odd to me. putting out that a certain number of mafia were voting Ley and a certain number were not but not really saying anything about who the most likely of each would be. Why did you select those particular numbers? without any names to go with the numbers it looks fishy to me. with the numbers ending up nearly a half and half split and the choices of how many voted (1-2) and how many didn't (2-3) it leaves an immense amount of wiggle room. 

 

Nudging is when you say someone is likely mafia or generally cast aspersion on that person but do not vote them. RTE looked to be trying to have his cake and eat it too. he spent time nudging Ley and then defending Ley. then once he claimed he "worried" that the role claim would be against the rules. 

[Turin Turambar]

 

 

 I also still have a small FoS at Pral for his opening post.

 

 

 

what do you think he was actually trying to achieve with that post if you still suspect him?

 

He was either A) Being sarcastic or B) Legitimately attempting to let people know he didnt care if was viewed as suspicious for the post or not. To me its similar to saying to be honest... It gives me a bad feeling of anything that comes after it.

 

Len, did you think that Pral was trying to say that himself or did you see it as part of the Despo impression? I read it as the latter. That he was in character. That is something Despo would say when he was getting ready to either get on his soap box or start a conspiracy theory. 

 

BTW Despo, it made me very nervous that you seemed to agree with me and even cite things I said. still working on you. 

 

Darthe, Ley asked about your Despo mafia read. can you explain/clarify it? 

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

Ley is always superdefensive. Heck the list of rules in itself is indication of that. I would be shocked if Ley was ever cool under fire. 

 

I think putting him to L-2 was too far for that point in the game. Especially with no deadline(I think). 

 

Basel, did you know your vote put him to L-2? were you not worried he could get blind hammered?

 

I tend to agree with this for the most part.  Except for the part where he challenges Basel.  I'm just not sure where it matters where/when the votes were cast as no one knew he's the Cop until he claimed.

 

Unfortunately, Ley's D1 play reminded me of a player at JN who often plays the loose cannon as VT on D1 or D2.  Often it led to an early exit but what he was doing was creating a meta so when he was scum he could get away with playing scummy.  The best play IMO was to lynch him early and often. 

 

I cannot recall playing with Ley before so have zero meta on him.  Over-defensiveness and irrational need to make this all about him probably would have led me to vote him without the reveal.

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

Hahahahahahahaha

 

Talya she wants to hear more from Turin.

Turin said Mage is hearing too much from Talya.

 

 

 

Basel keeps digging. Lololol

 

Turin, excellent. No one should know what I'm doing. Ever.

 

 

Oh wow. Looks like Turin gave Basel the perfect opportunity to tunnel his way out with a rope of lies.

LIES AND DECEIT!

 

@ Salami,

 

If this exchange is what you based your previous question.  I have no clue.  Maybe Turin or Ed can provide an answer.

 

@ Ed,

 

Did you use to play at MJ?

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

 

Csarmi says that a cop view won't work on him on Night 1, why say this? it looks at bit suspicious now that we know Ley is the Cop. I then start thinking they could be working together. a note to keep.

I believe it should be obvious. The pro-town move is to not let the cop waste a view on you. Note that I was also interested in the reactions (nothing noteworthy).

 

Des says he has reads on Ley and Lenlo

But he doesn't say what sort of reads now does he? I assumed he meant scummy.

 

 

So your original comment on the validity of a Cop view was a fabrication?