RL issues and mafia

[LilyElizabeth]

I don't want to get into a debate over which site is best. It just suits me better over there. Like minds and all that. 

 

I didn't say it was better over there, just more like me. 

[peacesells]

  On 6/18/2013 at 1:51 AM, LilyElizabeth said:

I don't want to get into a debate over which site is best. It just suits me better over there. Like minds and all that. 

 

I didn't say it was better over there, just more like me. 

 

I get ya.  It's a of preference.  I prefer it here..though I did have fun there.  I like the more detailed cases that happen here.  Those guys know each other so well that they don't even need to case anymore.

[John E. Kelley]

To be fair, there's excellent casing done there Peace. I don't know if you were playing in a smaller game, but those guys are good.

 

As for the rude treatment you received, every new player over there has to go through hazing. Even the ladies,but theirs is a tad different.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

hazing is lame.

[LilyElizabeth]

I'd prefer it if we don't discuss JN much here. We've had an influx of DM players lately, and it's beginning to change things a bit. Call me snobby if you want, but I want to slow down that influx. 

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

cosigns for totally different reasons

[peacesells]

  On 6/18/2013 at 3:32 AM, Ishmael Forsaken said:

To be fair, there's excellent casing done there Peace. I don't know if you were playing in a smaller game, but those guys are good.

 

As for the rude treatment you received, every new player over there has to go through hazing. Even the ladies,but theirs is a tad different.

 

Oh..I think they are good.  Just different style of casing.

 

and yes, I understand the hazing routine.

[Darthe]

god I love the hazing, reminds me of home.  (btw lily, agree about that last point of yours it blows)

[Ithillian Turambar]

I think this Thread has gotten very sad. I think it has degenerated into snarky comments and 'this is more betterer' type stuff.

 

We are trying to make DM Mafia fun and welcoming for new Members and Threads like this don't help - when they see all this negative vitriole.

 

I used to take things personal. Ridiculously so. I still do on occasion - usually when I'm over tired - but if x-player is tearing me up then I'm not going to nark off at them outside the Game.

 

If seen lots of occassions where players have 'stayed away from posting' at critical times in a Game. Maybe to try force a Random Lynch or maybe to hide the fact they were the one submitting a Kill. I don't think they are terrible people. It is a Game.

 

Oh and I've stayed away when I've just got too bogged down in a silly argument or realised the damn game has become the Ithi show. Sometimes being quiet is a valid strategy. Let other people speak so you can hear what THEY say, get THEIR reactions.

 

As for the 'can't do it in RL so don't do it here' standard of play. This isn't RL. The Game will naturally evolve to take that into account and strategies will be devised that utilise the way this Game is played online.

 

A player in real life could very easily sit back and let other run the discussion - or say they need to go to the loo lol.

 

I think people need to think about why they play this Game. Surely it is to have a bit of fun and interact with people.

 

Oh - and to earn points too :)

 

Also BT Mafia ... AH's Pokemon Game. Sign Up's in Progress. Let's all be friends and Kill each other ;)

[Nolder]

  On 6/18/2013 at 3:32 AM, Ishmael Forsaken said:

To be fair, there's excellent casing done there Peace. I don't know if you were playing in a smaller game, but those guys are good.

 

As for the rude treatment you received, every new player over there has to go through hazing. Even the ladies,but theirs is a tad different.

By different you mean sexual harassment more or less lol

One day I really want someone prudish and uptight to try playing over there and then freak out when all the guys start buddying up and making requests for nude pics

[Tiinker]

Never seen anything from JN but reading this thread makes it sound like a sort of loving group of cavemen.

[WWWwombat]

That's essentially correct. They spend their free time seeing who can piss farther, making crude comments, and speedlynching people for little to no reason.

[Nolder]

I think it's important to note for those not familiar with the guys that as much as they can be crude and vulgar jerkfaces...it's mostly just personas for entertainment

Your call on whether that makes the behavior excusable but the point is they're basically just roleplaying for each others entertainment most of the time

[hazelkrs1]

So I read through here, and I'm a little bit surprised that I'm actually kinda split on the issue. I guess my view is closest to Nolder's. I think technically anything is an option for someone to use in mafia to gain an advantage, but I still think its somewhat taboo to lie about RL. I guess its one of those "violates the spirit of the law but not quite the letter of it" type things. I would personally never lie about RL stuff because I like achieving a true victory. Winning because of sleazy moves feels lame. Like if you're mafia and most of town is inactive, it just doesn't feel like a very good win. I like the challenge of going against the odds and winning because you just so happened to be a better player or at least made the better play.

 

I don't really think its quite right to demonize someone for committing this taboo either. You don't have to like it, but then I don't like mafiosos who use lurking as a play style either. I mean, is there really that much difference between lying about everything else and lying about or using RL stuff to your advantage? I remember a situation where someone was saying they had RL issues going on and escaped the lynch, and others in the game even vouched for them and said they really were having those issues... but then that person turned out to be scum anyways.

 

That all being said, one thing I don't really like is the elitism. Lily and verb both know how I feel about this, and I just keep seeing it eve time I see a discussion like this. Why come in and say that newer players and playstyles keep you from wanting to play here, and how much better this place is or w/e, then say you don't want to talk aboutthat? If you ddidn't want to talk about it it seems like it would have been best to just not bring it up.

 

JN's arrogant players annoy me somewhat, but that's not why I dislike the place so much. Its the sexism, the fact that you will be treated so differently if you're a new male player than a new female player. If its such a good site for mafia they should be welcoming to all different types of people, not just those they can flirt with. Then there's the blind speedlynches and stuff. Feels like dumbing down chess to make it checkers imo.

[hazelkrs1]

I just think if you like playing somewhere else, fine. If someone asks you why you prefer that place over here, fine. But using opportunities like this to poo-poo on current play styles in DM mafia I don't really like. If were not cool enough to get the older players to come back, we don't need to be reminded of it all the time.

[Nolder]

  On 6/18/2013 at 12:01 PM, Despothera said:

Then there's the blind speedlynches and stuff. Feels like dumbing down chess to make it checkers imo.

I don't think this tactic gets enough appreciation. 

If you stick around and play more than a game or two with those guys you'll see that most times when someone was speed lynched it was a tactical decision made by most of the players. You'll never get a better reaction out of people than when vote after vote is piling on someone with little to no reason.

 

Unless it was on Verbal, they just like speed lynching him for the lulz.

[Verbal32]

  On 6/18/2013 at 12:01 PM, Despothera said:

That all being said, one thing I don't really like is the elitism. Lily and verb both know how I feel about this, and I just keep seeing it eve time I see a discussion like this. Why come in and say that newer players and playstyles keep you from wanting to play here, and how much better this place is or w/e, then say you don't want to talk aboutthat? If you ddidn't want to talk about it it seems like it would have been best to just not bring it up.

 

 

I never said I didn't want to talk about it - hell, I've been a big part of this entire conversation.  I might play predominantly on JN, but I started here, and I'm the mod for this board.  I've been planning a comeback to DM mafia, but I need to make sure I'm comfortable with it.  Threads like this are good (for me) in that I can figure out whether I'd have fun or not.  I don't particularly care if some of you like employing methods I feel are either cheating or have nothing to do with the game - if I'm in the game, I'll call it out and make sure players ignore that when considering a lynch or whatever.  It can be played around.  I don't really like having to bother "playing around" it, but everybody adapts in their own way.

[Verbal32]

  On 6/18/2013 at 12:46 PM, Nolder said:

 

 

Unless it was on Verbal, they just like speed lynching him for the lulz.

 

 

 

We should count and see which is higher - the # of times I've been blind lynched, or the # of Wednesdays we've lynched you simply because it was Lynch Nolder Wednesday.

[LilyElizabeth]

Des, my point was that I'd like to see more good sportsmanship here. Call it elitist or even judgmental if you want, but I prefer good sportsmanship in any game I play. It's just how I roll. 

[LilyElizabeth]

I only brought up another site in the context of discussing MY feelings. I didn't want to name it and discuss it and encourage people to flock over. We need to break in the current group of newbies at the moment. Things get out of hand sometimes in discussions. If I could take it back, I would. 

[Lanthirrhos]

And I brought up MJ because even the inactives still provided adequate posts. The less you post, the more direct and meaningful you need your posts to be. MJ used to be a good example of that. I loved the level of activity we had--not too much junk posting, and more than enough to build cases off of.

 

Unfortunately, most of the original(ish) MJers aren't around anymore... and not because you all aren't cool--but because they aren't around anymore. And that sucks. I dearly wish I had more time to play, although I'm fairly crap at DM games mostly due to the different level of discussion and participation. I'd actually have to practice to achieve anything... and I just don't have the time.

[Nolder]

You know, a lot of you guys are talking about different crowds and how you prefer one or the other or how things were better before and all that. That's fine, I guess, I totally understand those feelings. I do think it helps more than it harms to integrate our different communities though.

 

A lot of people on DM now are fairly new to maifa (started playing within the past year or so) while the JN crowd is mostly veterans. The new people could really use some good examples on how to play well. I know it annoys some people to have their game messed up but the best way to get better at a game is to play with people better than you. This would benefit the older players because if they take the time and invest in these games with the newer people eventually the newbies should, hopefully, graduate to a higher level of play and that gives the vets more competition. That's not going to happen as quickly if you just have a bunch of newbies floundering around together slowly learning from their mistakes instead of being taught. One complaint that has been made about JN recently, even by some people there, is that the more analytically and long winded people have kind of stopped playing and left mostly the instinctual scum hunters. There are some analytic people here. I believe Peace for example doesn't mind looking at votecounts and role claims and trying to crunch numbers and possibilities. If we mix we have a more diverse group of players and that makes things more fun for everyone I think. Another complaint that has been levied is that the meta reads there are so tight because they've only been playing with a mediumish group of people for so long. New blood really throws them and I think that does actually make their games more interesting. It becomes a challenge and forces them to rely back on their scum hunting skills instead of their meta reading.

 

Basically what I'm trying to say is I know it's hard to be accepting of each other, especially when the two groups are basically older football watching jocks and young book reading nerds but mafia could be so much better for both groups if we took the time to play more with each other. I'm not saying it doesn't happen so don't get me wrong. It does and that's great. The more the better though, at least imo.

[LilyElizabeth]

I disagree with your post Nolder, but I'm not going to say anything more before I look more like a b*tch than I already do. 

[lolguy26]

id love to hear why you disagree with nolder lily.....

[peacesells]

  On 6/18/2013 at 10:15 PM, lolguy26 said:

id love to hear why you disagree with nolder lily.....

 

Don't push chuckles.  If she feels it's beneficial to expand on her feelings she will.  This thread has a lot of potential to blow up.