RL issues and mafia

[michellem]

I thought it was time to talk about this. It's mentioned in almost every mafia game I'm in at least, and I think it's getting tiresome.

 

I've seen several times that people are sceptical when someone blames RL issues, wether sickness or other things, on their game lacking. I honestly didn't realize how bad this attitude was, until someone mentioned they only believed my migraine's because I'd mentioned them in a game I was modding. Now I've been playing here for almost a year and I've had migraines and other stuff going on all that time. It shocked me.

 

Everytime I question this, I'm told "well people have admitted to lying about these things before". And I can't help but think... How long ago is that now? Was it was normal as I've gotten the impression of? Because I've been here for almost a year, and I've never seen anyone admit to lying abour RL reasons.

 

I think this is an attitude that really needs to be looked at. If you see someone fake-claiming a role once, or twice, you don't automatically stamp everyone claiming Doc as liars in absolutley every game?

 

I know mafia is a rough game where you gotta have a tough skin, but there's still real persons playing it, and if they are sick, or busy, or whatever, that should be respected, unless you have clear reasons to think that person is lying.

 

My opinon at least.

[Ithillian Turambar]

Everything in the Game is in the Game. How you react to someone's questioning of you is up to you. I find a funny meme often helps. You simply can't say that everyone must never ever say that what other people are saying might not be true. Besides - one day when you are Mafia and don't want to post, the fact that you are so prone to migraines could come in handy.

 

They could be pushing at you to get a reaction from someone else, they could think you are mafia and be pushing you on purpose.

 

It's a Game. People lie to win. That is its nature.

[LilyElizabeth]

I completely agree with you, Mish. I usually believe people when they say something in RL has made them unable to play. The thing that irritates me is when they do this all game long and never play at all, really. I've never seen you do that. 

 

As for me, sometimes I have little breakdowns about something that is going on in the game (ie - having a role that requires me to betray my teammates or someone attacking me way beyond the spirit of the game) and I really do need to take a step back for a day or two. I don't dare say so, because that will just cause people to focus on me, which is the last thing I need when I'm in a fragile state. 

 

I really wish we could all just be friendly and understanding. It is a game, but that's no need to be a douche about it. 

[peacesells]

Here's the problem from an uninformed point of view.  And by uninformed I mean, the persons condition can not be verified. 

 

Players use all kinds of reasons to avoid being lynched.  Fake emotional outbursts.  Fake sickness.  Fake out of town. Fake cloudflare etc.  Just because you have not witnessed anyone admitting this does not mean it's not happening.  I have no clue how often it happens..but I do know it happens and must be considered when scum hunting.  Otherwise, it's just a free pass that has loads of abuse potential.

 

Usually the issue is when someone has been lurking for awhile then pops in with the migraine/sickness excuse then pops out.  (This is not what you do.  You are usually still active even when expressing these things so it's a null tell at worst in your case.)  But when someone does that warning signals immediately fire in my head. 

 

TBH...I rarely give excuses credence in any aspect of my life..let alone mafia.   If someone pops in and says "hey heads up..i'm out for awhile due to....." then I accept it.  If someone pops in with "hey, I'm having migraines and that's why I seem so scummy and woe is me blah blah blah..." I'm not buying it.

 

 

Plus what Ithi just said above.  Game play is game play.  I consider everything said in game as game play first.  Been manipulated too many times not to do so.

 

Plus, I find it amazing the amount of sickness that happens once a game starts.  I've said it before and will say it again.  The CDC (center for disease control) really needs to look into the game of mafia.

[lolguy26]

People lie, they do anything to win and all that but i understand that most people have RL issues but sometimes it does get annoying when they lurk through the whole game

 

 

 

I think this is an attitude that really needs to be looked at. If you see someone fake-claiming a role once, or twice, you don't automatically stamp everyone claiming Doc as liars in absolutely every game?

 

eh, unless your saying you believe everyone who claims in every single game, this example isnt really valid (and ive seen people fake claim doc before)

[michellem]

No Chuckles, I don't believe every single claim in every single game. But the point was, even if someone fakeclaims a doc a time or five, it doesn't mean that EVERY doc-claim is fake. Wich is what people seem to think it is everytime someone mentions a RL reason for being abscent or oft, that it's a lie. 

[peacesells]

No Chuckles, I don't believe every single claim in every single game. But the point was, even if someone fakeclaims a doc a time or five, it doesn't mean that EVERY doc-claim is fake. Wich is what people seem to think it is everytime someone mentions a RL reason for being abscent or oft, that it's a lie. 

 

that's way out of context and those claims can be verified while a sickness claim can not.  completely different issues.  not to mention fake claiming cop or doc is part of the game while claiming migraines is not.

[lolguy26]

the thing is mish, you'll always doubt if there's really anything or they just want to lurk, if someone fake claims in 5-6 games in a row, and then in the 7th game, heisnt lying, do you believe the claim or do you doubt it?

 

(something along the lines of the boy who cried wolf)

[Ithillian Turambar]

I don't think I'm being a douche. That's a bit harsh ... especially when your actual post says that people should be nice lol.

 

I have migraines myself and they are awful. I just dont think that a blanket demand to accept all possible RL situations as absolute facts is going to work. People just won't sometimes - depending on the posts and situation. Like Peace said, just cos Mish has migraines doesn't mean that one day she might want a quiet place to hide out from a firestorm in a Game. I know I have said I was busy and avoided Games on purpose when I didn't want to stuff up and make a mistake.

 

But I don't think anyone actually is trying to make a personal attack on people. It's just this game does make you feel very ... paranoid, insecure and a little unsafe at times. When you don't feel well at the same time that is magnified. Try a Willy Wonka Meme,

 

[peacesells]

Not believing someone has a sickness when expressed in game is not a personal attack.  It's just a cautious player.

[Ithillian Turambar]

Can't trust anyone in Mafia.

[peacesells]

Can't trust anyone in Mafia.

[Tiinker]

Doctors note was what we needed for school. I usually forged mine though.
 

Really? This isn't really a topic that needs a huge discussion.. If you're having issues then tell the mod and have them announce it for you. And even then, you can't expect something that can drastically influence the game to go unquestioned by the other players.

[Nolder]

Didn't read any responses yet since I don't want my own response to be influenced.

 

The reason people harp on others for mentioning RL is not because we don't care but because it's irrelevant. 

You were sick, your kids were sick, your computer died, a family member died, you were busy, zombies invaded. Whatever.

All of that sucks but it doesn't have anything to do with the game.

I understand it can be frustrating when people are asking you where you've been and then they either don't care for your answer or perhaps even insinuate you may be lying but the thing to remember is that most of those people are just as frustrated as you and they can't take anything you say for anything but gameplay. To do otherwise would be a mistake.

It's poor form to fake RL issues to cover for lurking but it does happen from time to time. And the other people will say they don't believe you just to rile you up. Because that is part of mafia. It's harsh but some players are cutthroat. 

 

One thing I personally don't like is when people say they "have a life outside mafia/DM" or whatever. That to me translates to blowing off the game (and thus the responsibility to play that you voluntarily agreed to take on when you signed up) in order to hang out with friends or watch tv or whatever it is you do. If something important cropped up that prevented you from playing that's one thing but treating a group game you chose to participate in with low priority compared to every day activities is a good way to get on my bad side. That's just me though, dunno if other people treat that differently from any other RL excuse.

[Nyanna al'Meara]

Meh. I've mentioned RL keeping me away from mafia when it has, plenty of times, but I've always thought of it as an unspoken moral code to not cheat in that way. Blame my upbringing :P but especially in something like this that requires people to contribute and be teams online, dishonesty is just... scummy, pardon the pun.
A game is a game, right, but it's a game that doesn't have to be tied into rl. If everyone held to that unspoken rule, as it were, when someone does indeed have a serious RL issue that prevents them from being there and posts about it, we can believe it and move on.

Otherwise...come on, there's plenty of tactics to use in the game, and if you just say "RL made you do this and that", that's not the point of the game, using your brain and wits is and if you're not doing that I don't think you should be playing it *shrug* Neither if you can't feasibly be there for it.

For example,  I tried playing in a game the last few weeks after a long time of not playing, and it just didn't work, my RL is too busy to pay mafia the attention it deserves... so I'm not gonna sign up for any more. At least until I really have time for it, or I happen to be so enthralled by the theme I ditch RL for a while >.> either of which I doubt will happen anytime soon. XD

 

P.S. agree, Nolder *nod*

[csarmi]

Just inform the mod that you're having problems. Ask him to announce it :)

 

The RL card on some players is just getting old.

[WWWwombat]

People lie about RL. It happens less than Peace thinks but more than most would think. Personally, I treat all RL as a null tell. RL happens to townies and mafia. RL can explain inactivity, but it usually can't explain outright scummy behavior. The latter is usually what I case on anyways.

[Verbal32]

So, this comes up a lot.  Hell, I've brought it up recently.

 

I'll use Lily as my example as she knows I'm not targeting her here.  NONE OF THIS IS TRUE.  If I'm really going after her and casing her, and she's scum and known I've got her, it would be poor form for her to claim RL issues to excuse herself from defending against me.  If she simply said nothing and ignored me, she'd likely be lynched - so she needs a way out, and fakes a RL issue (sick, depressed, ill child, etc etc).  Because I know she sometimes needs to step away, I and the other players believe her claim and we lay off....and she escapes a lynch.  If she was truly sick and needed time away, that's totally normal and acceptable.

 

But in this untrue example, Lily is faking her issue and escapes a lynch that would otherwise have helped town win.  Is this outside the spirit of the game?  Hell yes.  Would Lily actually do that?  Hell no.....it is just an example.

 

 

The problem is that the above scenario has happened with people before.  It doesn't even need to happen often - once in a while is enough.  When it happens, it just sits their and festers.  Some people, like Wombat, will largely ignore and treat it as a null tell.  Others won't.  This creates a diversion to the game that doesn't need to be there.  We're generally nice people - when somebody is down, we give them space - we don't kick them.  So when they fake being down, some people feel used and lied to.  Lying in mafia is the name of the game, but some folks take "outside the spirit of the game" more seriously than others.

[Ithillian Turambar]

I think this is tied to the inactivity Thread. If people didn't feel so pressured into posting x amount times per day - they would just be able to step away when they were feeling a bit ill/rubbish/sad/anxious - but if you do that and don't post then you end up getting ah haaa! Mafia non posty person! Lynch them.

 

So you feel like you have to justify absences - when really you might have already made a decent contribution to the game already this phase and shouldn't have to tell the world that x y and z is really messing with your life right now.

[peacesells]

it's not justifying absences that is the problem.  it's justifying scummy behavior.  there's a big difference imo.

 

Like I said before..if you come on and say you are sick..and that's why you haven't checked in..that's a null tell.

 

If you come in and say you just look scummy cause you are sick its, scummy to me. 

[Niniel]

I never lie about rl things, regardless if it´s sickness, travelling or cloudflare. (Cloudflare is being much nicer to me recently. Yay!) So I kind of expect people that know me to believe me when I say I have rl things going on. But... that is only an explanation of why I don´t post more, it has nothing to do with me being town or scum. 

[Ithillian Turambar]

Apart from anything that anyone does can be made to look like a Mafia Tell.

 

Everyone was Town in DPR's game and we still all went at each other hammer and tongue.

 

And when people are ill - they make mistakes/get confused. I was AWFUL when I had bronchitus - but I was still Town lol.

[Niniel]

I´m never mafia. :(  Maybe one time in the last year. 

[Ithillian Turambar]

Me neither.

[WWWwombat]

Has anyone actually tried to excuse blatant scumminess with RL? The closest I've seen is people getting emotional and irritable due to RL. And anyone who thinks emotionality and irritability are universal scumtells needs to adjust his or her scumdar imo. Plenty of people get super emotional when town. Some people even get more emotional as town than as mafia.