Darthe's Mafia Game Over. Mafia Wins.

[RandA lThor]

Sorry little off topic, but i finally saw the WIFOM scene in princess bride. :D  It was great!

[bgrishinko]

I'm gonna go ahead and vote Ed. He's on top of my scum list. Followed by Talya, BG and Ley, in the order of most likely to be mafia to least likely.

 

Ed for being unhelpful and distant all game. It's been pointed out to him several times and yet he doesn't change.

 

Talya, for seeming a bit too careful; after she got a couple of things wrong earlier in game I feel like she's been following along more, not putting out much original or controversial thoughts, seems like she's just trying to stay low and post enough so that her abscense doesn't get noted.

 

BG, also plays a passive game; he's posting a fair share, but also stays very neutral.

 

Ley, this one is a bit shaky. I simply cannot get decided re:his role. On one hand, just a 2-shot cop would seem town a bit underpowered if the mafia has a watcher. On the other hand, I could easily see that my role is there to balance out a mafia watcher, by messing with their results. So Ley isn't on my "lynch now"-list yet, but I don't trust him either.

 

 

I thought I'd made it pretty clear who is at the top of my mafia list.

[_CLOUD]

Ley

[Talya]

So cloud, you don't know that the protection was needed (hence stopped someone being killed) Only that nothing hindered you in sending it. So if you had protected Rand and he didn't have the mirror role, you still wouldn't know it was you that saved him, because he said he was a mirror. Your action would still have gone through, and you would have got the confirmation for it from Darthe. So it is just a protection role, with no information added unless you had been blocked and your actions wouldn't have gone through.

 

Mish suddenly seems to have come round on herself and now thinks Ley is Mafia. If you are telling the truth about your role and alignment Mish, why now do you think that Ley could be Mafia? Do you still think he is the watcher? 

[Ithillian Turambar]

So cloud, you don't know that the protection was needed (hence stopped someone being killed) Only that nothing hindered you in sending it. So if you had protected Rand and he didn't have the mirror role, you still wouldn't know it was you that saved him, because he said he was a mirror. Your action would still have gone through, and you would have got the confirmation for it from Darthe. So it is just a protection role, with no information added unless you had been blocked and your actions wouldn't have gone through.

 

Mish suddenly seems to have come round on herself and now thinks Ley is Mafia. If you are telling the truth about your role and alignment Mish, why now do you think that Ley could be Mafia? Do you still think he is the watcher?

I think he's just getting a 'confirmed' PM from Darthe. Darthe wouldn't tell anyone if their action had been blocked. He's just confirming he received the action. I think Cloud got a bit confused.

 

Have you ever been a Doc before @ Cloud?

[_CLOUD]

Once before in the Calvin and Hobbes game at Thak. I believe Rand modded that game.

[Ithillian Turambar]

And you thought you would be told that your Action had worked successfully?

[_CLOUD]

Every mod uses the PR's in a slightly different way, and I just assumed it must have been Darthe's way to use a Doc.

[michellem]

 

 

Ley, so you expected Ithi to be town more than mafia? Your story doesn't add up to your vote on her during the previous Day.

No, I expect her to be mafia. However, I couldn't really think of who the mafia would target, as Ithi kept asking Chuckles to target Rand, so I expected them to try to take out both Rand and me in one night (with unknowing help of Chuckles), IF Ithi was mafia. So I could, in this case, have found a mafia name, but that wouldn't have been useful as I'd have died. However, if Ithi was town, she would also be a likely target. And that's why I targeted her.I'm still convinced she's scum though.Vote Ithi

See here where Leyrann says that by Targeting me with his Watchy Powers he will catch a Mafia, because he thinks that the Mafia would try to kill him or Rand? That's not how a Watcher Role works. Also the scramble to say that I might be Town, so that's also why he targeted me.

But later on he says he thinks I'm Mafia and votes me. And now Mish is distancing from him and saying she thinks he might be Mafia but doesn't quite know why.

I think that Ley and Mish thought that there would be a righteous explosion of votes against me on the day after Turn and Arez died and that's why they thought their plan to back each other up would work and not be closely examined. I think they thought I would be Lynched.

I would also like to have another think about Dap's Role though.

@ Dap, would you say you have been mostly using your Role to protect or block? Could you go through your target choices again for me please - you reasons for choosing them and whether you thought you were blocking Mafia or Protecting Town?

Thanks

Do you think I'm Town now @ Mish? Why am I not on your top four list?

I'm still not sure about you; I've never been. You're not in my top four list because the others ping me more.

 

And read what I said about Ley. I didn't say "I think he's mafia but don't know why". I'm saying it's his role that makes me doubt. On one hand, it makes sense that he's mafia watcher since I'm town visitor, to throw off his results and potentially out him. But on the other hand, considering town only had a 2-shot cop, it feels like the mafia would be way overpowered versus town if he's mafia. That's why I'm torn, and why he's at the bottom of the list.

[_CLOUD]

I will just ask Darthe about my role. The last time I was a Doc I didn't get any sort of feedback at all when I submitted my actions, not even a received.

[michellem]

I don't get any confirmation from Darthe that he's gotten my actions this game.

[Darthe]

Official Vote Count 3:

 

Ley (2/5): BG, Cloud

Ithi (1/5): Ley

Dap (1/5): Ed

Ed (2/5): Rand, Mish

 

Not voting (3/9):

 Ithi, Talya, Dap

 

Deadline is : 31 hours.

[michellem]

Ok I'm going out for the evening, will be back closer to midnight.

[Ithillian Turambar]

Vote Rand

[Leyrann]

Well, the Lesser Seen Leyrann is back again.

 

:shudders:

I think is probably best to let Darthe know things like that - especially if you are dead and not allowed to post in the Game.

Ok - I would like some questions answered please.

Eddie ... Dap and Rand being Mafia. Can you tell us if this is just your opinion or if you have actually viewed them as such?

Cloud ... Have you been self protecting during the game?

Rand ... Why were you ONLY concerned about being shot at by Chuckles?

 

Are you freaking serious here Ithi? I ask the community on Facebook if someone could be so nice to post here ingame that I lost my reply boxes, and you're calling him out for that? The only thing he did is clearing up why I was gone for two days.

 

Dap, Mish, and maybe Rand.

Notice how Dap sat back and let others get muddled in all this to keep his hands clean? And how all of a sudden, I am on Mish's scum list? How she is so sure I am scum. And Rand went all cray.

 

Ed, I have played a lot of games before. In every single of these games, you were a trillion times more active than in this one. Ithi also said that you WERE just posting elsewhere. I am really starting to think more and more that you're mafia and trying to hide by just only making the required posts to not get replaced - which would be less than most lurkers, which means it's more likely we'd just forget about you. I actually think I don't have seen you post more than three lines in one post yet... Vote below.

 

Rand, please calm down.

 

So much interesting stuff you have to say... Instead of participating you're just telling people to "calm down", while THEY are playing?

 

I'm confused Ithi:

 

You think all the mafia have Town type roles. If this is true, then they don't need to fake claim. They can confidently role claim and we can take it at face value. Not that they are town, but that they have that role.

But then you are suspicious of anyone that is accepting role claims at face value because mafia have to fake claim? 

 

Also, hasn't it been said by others that Watcher is a town role? Visitor must be a town role? I mentioned Mirror is typically a town role, but that doesn't exclude Rand from my current suspect list. The only person I've written off because of their claim is Cloud. Maybe we should put Cloud back on the lynch list then cause Doc is a typically town role, so it would make sense the mafia have that role in this game. 

 

Basically, I'm not sure the point you are trying to make. I don't think anybody is taking claims at face value, but there does seem to be evidence of the Watcher/Visitor dynamic unless its a straight up gambit which has also been discussed. There's been more than 1 night of no NK so there's evidence of protective roles on the town side, maybe last night as well. Rand's claim is fishy, but there seems to be some evidence to support the claim (read: Rand not dead, Chuckles dead). Doesn't make him town though. He's up there on my list still more than he was yesterday, so I'm not taking it at face value.

 

I doubt the whole mafia team has power roles, if everyone on the mafia team had some power I'd think we'd have seen more evidence of it. I think it highly likely that a vanilla claim is actually a goon.  

 

If anyone is fake claiming, I think it is Dap. There's an inkling in my mind that Mish and Ley might have a gambit going because of the convenience of it all, but I find it MORE likely that Ley is mafia watcher and Mish is being had and blinded by her role.

 

So, when I turn town, do you see Mish as town, or do you say "yeah, but she is most likely mafia to balance out" once we are at that point?

 

Rand has been re-explaining things a lot.

Leyrann has been over explaining the reasons why he would need to lie, when we all know that the Mafia have to lie. He also pre-aplogised to me just in case I am Town lol. And it does not make sense for a Town Watcher to watch someone they think is Mafia, when they could have watched someone who they thought might be Killed and found us a Mafia. And he never watched Cloud either - just to see if he did visit himself, evidence of self protecting would be useful, or he might have seen a Kill attempt.

Mish said she thought I was Mafia but then came out and said I had totally FAILED at playing this game. If she thought I was Mafia surely she would think I had been successful - as Mafia don't want any Mafia Lynched.

 

If you keep asking about it, I keep explaining it. I wouldn't call that over explaining.

 

 

 

Ley, so you expected Ithi to be town more than mafia? Your story doesn't add up to your vote on her during the previous Day.

No, I expect her to be mafia. However, I couldn't really think of who the mafia would target, as Ithi kept asking Chuckles to target Rand, so I expected them to try to take out both Rand and me in one night (with unknowing help of Chuckles), IF Ithi was mafia. So I could, in this case, have found a mafia name, but that wouldn't have been useful as I'd have died. However, if Ithi was town, she would also be a likely target. And that's why I targeted her.

I'm still convinced she's scum though.

Vote Ithi

See here where Leyrann says that by Targeting me with his Watchy Powers he will catch a Mafia, because he thinks that the Mafia would try to kill him or Rand? That's not how a Watcher Role works. Also the scramble to say that I might be Town, so that's also why he targeted me.

But later on he says he thinks I'm Mafia and votes me. And now Mish is distancing from him and saying she thinks he might be Mafia but doesn't quite know why.

I think that Ley and Mish thought that there would be a righteous explosion of votes against me on the day after Turn and Arez died and that's why they thought their plan to back each other up would work and not be closely examined. I think they thought I would be Lynched.

I would also like to have another think about Dap's Role though.

@ Dap, would you say you have been mostly using your Role to protect or block? Could you go through your target choices again for me please - you reasons for choosing them and whether you thought you were blocking Mafia or Protecting Town?

Thanks

Do you think I'm Town now @ Mish? Why am I not on your top four list?

 

 

You really don't read, do you? I said that the mafia would, if you were mafia, most likely target me, and if you were town, either me or you. Because there would be no use of my role if I would die, I thought that it would either be a close-to-random view, like, I have no idea who the mafia will try to kill so I'll randomly pick someone, or I would view you, and if you were mafia I'd OF COURSE not get anything, and if you were town, you would be a likely target.

 

Ley

 

#Expert reasoning

 

Unvote vote Ed

[Ithillian Turambar]

Yes I am serious about no posting in a Game if you are Dead.

 

In cases like this a message should be passed to the Mod.

 

I tried to be light hearted about it - but if you would like to discuss it further after the Game has ended you can PM me.

[Ithillian Turambar]

Ooooh ... Mish and Ley both voting for the same person. There's a surprise.

 

Let's even things up shall we?

 

Unvote - vote Leyrann

[Ithillian Turambar]

@ Leyrann. Why have you pulled up quotes from every single other player who has challenged your play but left out Mish?

 

You are her number 4 suspect for being on the Mafia team.

[Ithillian Turambar]

And Rand too.

 

Wow - it's just freaky that they've all piled on Eddie.

 

I think I'm in shock. Luckily I have a nice bottle of red wine to help :)

[Leyrann]

Ooooh ... Mish and Ley both voting for the same person. There's a surprise.

 

Let's even things up shall we?

 

Unvote - vote Leyrann

 

Do what you want. I know you think me scum and that you won't get convinced otherwise before I catch 3 mafia.

 

@ Leyrann. Why have you pulled up quotes from every single other player who has challenged your play but left out Mish?

 

You are her number 4 suspect for being on the Mafia team.

 

I don't know. I just pressed multiquote for every post I thought was worth replying to. I normally don't read the game more than once.

[Ithillian Turambar]

Maybe you could reply to it now.

[bgrishinko]

@Leyrann - If you flip town I'd be incredibly surprised. It would mean you are a town watcher and whether Mish is town or mafia she did visit Ithi without any apparent consequences. So the visitor claim would hold solid and I'd believe her that shes telling the truth. But that tells me nothing of her alignment. For that I need to reference her play. 

 

Why does everyone seem to think I base all my voting decisions based on role claims just because I'm talking about them?

[Leyrann]

Everyone? Only Ithi as far as I know...

 

Also Ithi, even though I do remember something about Mish's list, I don't really feel like reading 10 pages to find it, at 11 PM...

[bgrishinko]

 

Everyone? Only Ithi as far as I know...

 

Also Ithi, even though I do remember something about Mish's list, I don't really feel like reading 10 pages to find it, at 11 PM...

 

 

 

This seemed like you were saying I was basing my votes on roles:

 

 

 

I'm confused Ithi:

 

You think all the mafia have Town type roles. If this is true, then they don't need to fake claim. They can confidently role claim and we can take it at face value. Not that they are town, but that they have that role.

But then you are suspicious of anyone that is accepting role claims at face value because mafia have to fake claim? 

 

Also, hasn't it been said by others that Watcher is a town role? Visitor must be a town role? I mentioned Mirror is typically a town role, but that doesn't exclude Rand from my current suspect list. The only person I've written off because of their claim is Cloud. Maybe we should put Cloud back on the lynch list then cause Doc is a typically town role, so it would make sense the mafia have that role in this game. 

 

Basically, I'm not sure the point you are trying to make. I don't think anybody is taking claims at face value, but there does seem to be evidence of the Watcher/Visitor dynamic unless its a straight up gambit which has also been discussed. There's been more than 1 night of no NK so there's evidence of protective roles on the town side, maybe last night as well. Rand's claim is fishy, but there seems to be some evidence to support the claim (read: Rand not dead, Chuckles dead). Doesn't make him town though. He's up there on my list still more than he was yesterday, so I'm not taking it at face value.

 

I doubt the whole mafia team has power roles, if everyone on the mafia team had some power I'd think we'd have seen more evidence of it. I think it highly likely that a vanilla claim is actually a goon.  

 

If anyone is fake claiming, I think it is Dap. There's an inkling in my mind that Mish and Ley might have a gambit going because of the convenience of it all, but I find it MORE likely that Ley is mafia watcher and Mish is being had and blinded by her role.

 

So, when I turn town, do you see Mish as town, or do you say "yeah, but she is most likely mafia to balance out" once we are at that point?

[Ithillian Turambar]

 

 

 

Ley, so you expected Ithi to be town more than mafia? Your story doesn't add up to your vote on her during the previous Day.

No, I expect her to be mafia. However, I couldn't really think of who the mafia would target, as Ithi kept asking Chuckles to target Rand, so I expected them to try to take out both Rand and me in one night (with unknowing help of Chuckles), IF Ithi was mafia. So I could, in this case, have found a mafia name, but that wouldn't have been useful as I'd have died. However, if Ithi was town, she would also be a likely target. And that's why I targeted her.I'm still convinced she's scum though.Vote Ithi

See here where Leyrann says that by Targeting me with his Watchy Powers he will catch a Mafia, because he thinks that the Mafia would try to kill him or Rand? That's not how a Watcher Role works. Also the scramble to say that I might be Town, so that's also why he targeted me.

But later on he says he thinks I'm Mafia and votes me. And now Mish is distancing from him and saying she thinks he might be Mafia but doesn't quite know why.

I think that Ley and Mish thought that there would be a righteous explosion of votes against me on the day after Turn and Arez died and that's why they thought their plan to back each other up would work and not be closely examined. I think they thought I would be Lynched.

I would also like to have another think about Dap's Role though.

@ Dap, would you say you have been mostly using your Role to protect or block? Could you go through your target choices again for me please - you reasons for choosing them and whether you thought you were blocking Mafia or Protecting Town?

Thanks

Do you think I'm Town now @ Mish? Why am I not on your top four list?

I'm still not sure about you; I've never been. You're not in my top four list because the others ping me more.

 

And read what I said about Ley. I didn't say "I think he's mafia but don't know why". I'm saying it's his role that makes me doubt. On one hand, it makes sense that he's mafia watcher since I'm town visitor, to throw off his results and potentially out him. But on the other hand, considering town only had a 2-shot cop, it feels like the mafia would be way overpowered versus town if he's mafia. That's why I'm torn, and why he's at the bottom of the list.

This is on the previous page. Let me go get you the other one.

 

What are your thoughts on this one in the meantime?