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Barid Bel Medar

Ask Simple questions, get simple answers (aMoL version covering the entire series)

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We don't see much of it in the series, there's some author commentary on it. Question of the Week covers the Forsaken mark, the Cords (well think just says Rand was wrong about what the black cords were for) and how to become a DF.

 

Post 293...have you read the series? How many times does Ishy channel Saidan in the series? The seals were intact for how much of the series? etc...

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@dir

 

There was no need for protection pre SASG and we have no idea when it was started up by the DO. Clearly it wasn't in place during the Breaking.

Of course there was no need for protection, that is only a byproduct of binding the soul to the DO.

 

I was under the impression that "abandoning the Light" was done through binding the soul to the DO, otherwise all the forsaken are just top level dreadlords and darkfriends. 

Isn't that what they essentially are though? Taim proved that when he was elevated from high level dreadlord to a full Chosen.

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Here is a quote that targets a time frame for protection.

 

Interview: Jan 25th, 2005

TOR Questions of the Week Part II (Verbatim)

Week 20 Question (LordJuss)

Why was Aginor so interested in the Eye of the World? He could channel clean saidin anyway so it shouldn't have been an issue?

Robert Jordan

He was able to channel clean saidin, true, but only through the "filter" which had been provided by the Dark One just a short time previously, which meant the Dark One would be aware of him channeling wherever he was. Remember, Aginor was the creator of the Trollocs; he is quite able to reason things out clearly, at least in a scientific sense. Also, he wasn't certain whether or not the Dark One also would know what he was doing when he channeled, too. For someone as secretive, competitive, and generally untrustworthy as the one of the Forsaken, the Eye of the World amounted to a valuable asset if it could be secured. To put it simply, Aginor saw a means of channeling without the Dark One looking over his shoulder, and maybe a way to increase his own power at the expense of those who didn't have that advantage. Balthamel might well have been for the long drop, administered by Aginor, if things hadn't worked out differently.

So the severed ties were a filter that was only given recently to the forsaken...

 

QUESTION

... and Rand severs some black ties. Isn't that ...

ROBERT JORDAN

That was cutting off his protection from the Taint and also cut off his ability, it was not like stilling them. It was cutting the ties that, most important to him, protected him from the taint on saidin, so he could draw saidin all he wanted to and never worry about the taint. But it was also those ties that represented his ability, or the conduits by which he could draw on the True Power. But it was not his ability to draw; it was not the same thing as stilling or severing; it was more like shielding.

 

Edited by Suttree

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After my second (paced) read through of AMOL ive been thinking to myself, "What storeylines would i love to see post Tarmon Gaidon?"

 

Obviously i know that this is more than likely impossible to ever happen. If only the Creator had left behind more notes... But i suppose leaving enough notes to finish this wonderful tale is a miracle in itself!

 

Anywho... I would really love to see how Mat and Fortuona reclaim the Seanchan lands, desperate battles, finding out what great knowledge Artur Hawkwing left his descendants, is it love between the two or the Patterns necessity, finding out if the Damane would ever be Un-leashed.

 

I can dream, I can dream.

 

So what are your dreams of tales you wish to see now that this magical adventure is over? :(

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After my second (paced) read through of AMOL ive been thinking to myself, "What storeylines would i love to see post Tarmon Gaidon?"

 

Obviously i know that this is more than likely impossible to ever happen. If only the Creator had left behind more notes... But i suppose leaving enough notes to finish this wonderful tale is a miracle in itself!

 

Anywho... I would really love to see how Mat and Fortuona reclaim the Seanchan lands, desperate battles, finding out what great knowledge Artur Hawkwing left his descendants, is it love between the two or the Patterns necessity, finding out if the Damane would ever be Un-leashed.

 

I can dream, I can dream.

 

So what are your dreams of tales you wish to see now that this magical adventure is over? :(

check here : http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/78304-post-amol-speculation-discussion-full-spoilers/

Edited by dir ehlef

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Here is a quote that targets a time frame for protection.

 

Interview: Jan 25th, 2005

TOR Questions of the Week Part II (Verbatim)

Week 20 Question (LordJuss)

Why was Aginor so interested in the Eye of the World? He could channel clean saidin anyway so it shouldn't have been an issue?

Robert Jordan

He was able to channel clean saidin, true, but only through the "filter" which had been provided by the Dark One just a short time previously, which meant the Dark One would be aware of him channeling wherever he was. Remember, Aginor was the creator of the Trollocs; he is quite able to reason things out clearly, at least in a scientific sense. Also, he wasn't certain whether or not the Dark One also would know what he was doing when he channeled, too. For someone as secretive, competitive, and generally untrustworthy as the one of the Forsaken, the Eye of the World amounted to a valuable asset if it could be secured. To put it simply, Aginor saw a means of channeling without the Dark One looking over his shoulder, and maybe a way to increase his own power at the expense of those who didn't have that advantage. Balthamel might well have been for the long drop, administered by Aginor, if things hadn't worked out differently.

So the severed ties were a filter that was only given recently to the forsaken...

 

>

QUESTION

... and Rand severs some black ties. Isn't that ...

ROBERT JORDAN

That was cutting off his protection from the Taint and also cut off his ability, it was not like stilling them. It was cutting the ties that, most important to him, protected him from the taint on saidin, so he could draw saidin all he wanted to and never worry about the taint. But it was also those ties that represented his ability, or the conduits by which he could draw on the True Power. But it was not his ability to draw; it was not the same thing as stilling or severing; it was more like shielding.

 

@suttree Wow, amazing! So is there any real difference between forsaken and dreadlord other than the title?

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@dir
 
Sorry, provided part of this quote earlier and prob should have just given the whole break down.

 

Interview: Jan 25th, 2005
TOR Questions of the Week Part II (Verbatim)
Week 12 Question

In Winters Heart, you mention that back in the Age of Legends, there were several other Forsaken that the Dark One had killed because he suspected they would betray him. What's their story? Were those people ever as high ranking as the 13 survivors, or where they more like high-ranking Dreadlords then actual Forsaken?
Robert Jordan

First off, Dreadlords was the name given to men and women who could channel and sided with the Shadow in the Trolloc Wars. Yes, the women were called Dreadlords, too. They might have liked to call themselves "the Chosen," like the Forsaken, but feared to. The real Forsaken might not have appreciated it when they returned, as prophecies of the Shadow foretold would happen. Some of the Dreadlords had authority and responsibility equivalent to that of the Forsaken in the War of the Shadow, however. They ran the Shadow's side of the Trolloc Wars, though without the inherent ability to command the Myrddraal that the Forsaken possess, meaning they had to negotiate with them. Overall command at the beginning was in another's hands.

Forsaken was the name given to Aes Sedai who went over to the Shadow in the War of the Shadow at the end of the Age of Legends, though of course, they called themselves the Chosen, and despite the tales of the "current" Age, there were many more than a few of them. Since they occupied all sorts of levels, you might say that many were equivalent to some of the lesser Dreadlords, but it would be incorrect to call them so. At the time, they were all Forsaken—or Chosen—from the greatest to the least.

Some of those Forsaken the Dark One killed were every bit as high-ranking as the thirteen who were remembered, and who you might say constituted a large part of the Dark One's General Staff at the time of the sealing. With the Forsaken, where treachery and backstabbing were an acceptable way of getting ahead, the turnover in the upper ranks was fairly high, though Ishamael, Demandred, Lanfear, Graendal, Semirhage, and later Sammael, were always at the top end of the pyramid. They were very skilled at personal survival, politically and physically.

In large part the thirteen were remembered because they were trapped at Shayol Ghul, and so their names became part of that story, though it turned out that details of them, stories of them, survived wide-spread knowledge of the tale of the actual sealing itself. Just that they had been sealed away. Other Forsaken were left behind, so to speak, free but in a world that was rapidly sliding down the tube. The men eventually went mad and died from the same taint that killed off the other male Aes Sedai. They had no access to the Dark One's protective filters. The women died, too, though from age or in battle or from natural disasters created by insane male Aes Sedai or from diseases that could no longer be controlled because civilization itself had been destroyed and access to those who were skilled in Healing was all but gone. And soon after their deaths, their names were forgotten, except for what might possibly be discovered in some ancient manuscript fragment that survived the Breaking. A bleak story of people who deserved no better, and not worth telling in any detail.

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@suttree Ok, my previous question is answered.

 

But this quote brings up a new question. The Forsaken have total control of shadowspawn as opposed to dreadlords who need to negotiate with them. What is it that makes shadowspawn listen more to the forsaken?

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INTERVIEW: Jan 25th, 2005

TOR Questions of the Week Part II (Verbatim)

WEEK 6 QUESTION

How were the Gholams made? Were they created or bred like the Trollocs? How exactly are they controlled if they are immune to the One Power?

ROBERT JORDAN

The gholam—singular and plural are the same—were created, not bred. Supposedly their creation involved making them so that they would be obedient to the Chosen, whoever they might be at any given time. This was an attempt at copying something that had turned up in Myrddraal, which seem incapable of disobeying one of the Chosen, possibly because of the use of the True Power in creation of the Trollocs, the parent stock of the Myrddraal. Even Aginor, who created the Trollocs, and thus indirectly the Myrddraal, was uncertain about the actual cause. (Becoming one of the Forsaken involves receiving a mark from the Dark One in return for your oaths; this mark is invisible and cannot be sensed by another human being, even another of the Forsaken, but it can be by certain non-human creatures, including Myrddraal and Draghkar among others. This may play a part in the Myrddraal's obedience but doesn't explain it completely.) This element in gholam has some flaws, however, as we have seen in a small measure. In any case, if I were you, I wouldn't try giving orders to a gholam unless I were one of the Forsaken.

Here you go...

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INTERVIEW: Jan 25th, 2005

TOR Questions of the Week Part II (Verbatim)

WEEK 6 QUESTION

How were the Gholams made? Were they created or bred like the Trollocs? How exactly are they controlled if they are immune to the One Power?

ROBERT JORDAN

The gholam—singular and plural are the same—were created, not bred. Supposedly their creation involved making them so that they would be obedient to the Chosen, whoever they might be at any given time. This was an attempt at copying something that had turned up in Myrddraal, which seem incapable of disobeying one of the Chosen, possibly because of the use of the True Power in creation of the Trollocs, the parent stock of the Myrddraal. Even Aginor, who created the Trollocs, and thus indirectly the Myrddraal, was uncertain about the actual cause. (Becoming one of the Forsaken involves receiving a mark from the Dark One in return for your oaths; this mark is invisible and cannot be sensed by another human being, even another of the Forsaken, but it can be by certain non-human creatures, including Myrddraal and Draghkar among others. This may play a part in the Myrddraal's obedience but doesn't explain it completely.) This element in gholam has some flaws, however, as we have seen in a small measure. In any case, if I were you, I wouldn't try giving orders to a gholam unless I were one of the Forsaken.

Here you go...

Does this mean that a forsaken has a different or new oath from other darkfriends?[ aren't all darkfriends under oath?]

Edited by dir ehlef

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Well oaths but also the mark is wholly different and there are separate marks for that matter. For instance the one Alviarin receieved:

 

INTERVIEW: Jul 19th, 2005

TOR Questions of the Week Part III (Verbatim)

WEEK 2 QUESTION

Is the mark that Alviarin received from Shaidar Haran the same as that the Forsaken received from the Dark One? If so, is she now a Forsaken, or some sort of lesser Chosen?

ROBERT JORDAN

The mark that Alviarin received from Shaidar Haran was not the same as that given to the Forsaken, though it shares one function: Shadowspawn will recognize her as belonging to the Dark One. They will not obey her as they will the Forsaken, however, but she doesn't have to worry about one trying to kill her, either. She is not any sort of lesser Chosen. You might think of it more like the tattoo some people get put inside the ear of their dog, an identification so others will know who the dog belongs to as soon as they see it.

Edited by Suttree

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The people of the AoL and the breaking went through alot of effort to secure what the present age would need. Look at the eye of the world to protect the horn of valere and the dragon banner, and the stone of Tear to protect Callandor, or Rhuidean to protect the columns and perhaps the choedan kal and other items of power.

 

Yet post third age, no effort is made to do the same for the coming generations. Birgitte even tells Olver to toss the Horn away. I understand that new prophecies would not be fitting to be placed in the story, but throwing away the horn? 

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<script language='javascript'> </script>

 

i dont remember the ref in TDR? But in TPOD, when Nynaeve and Elayne teach the windfinders before using the Bowl of the Winds, the Aes Sedai say that "all surviving pages of textbooks say that you cannot force someone into a circle" and elayne wonders what was said in the pages that did not survive. But i dont think we ever saw anyone being forced into a circle, did we? 

 

I found the reference. its in KOD, Pevara shows disgust at the captured Black sister, Talene, explaining how the Black Ajah punishes aes sedai by forcing them into circles against their will. 

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re the Dark One's mark on the forsaken - that's v interesting, thanks for the quotes. Can I ask where you go to read all these interviews with RJ?

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Question regarding imitation of Forsaken.

 

1 - Someone hires Slayer to kill Rand, someone who hides their identity, (I think in WH). Who was it?

 

2 - In KOD, Moridin tells the other forsaken that either sammael or someone imitating him has been sending mydraal and trollocs into the ways. We know from RJ that sammael is dead, so who was pretending to be him, and why?

 

Are 1 and 2 the same person/

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I will argue that IF Channelling is genetic, and the Sharans have been breeding 50K channelers... then we have spent 13 books acting like city we have to eventually invade and overcome is Baerlon, when at the last second we realize "oh shucks, its actually the fortress of Tear over there". Weve been hammered with fighting the black ajah, and dreadlords for the whole series... but those forces are about 2% of the channelling force when you do the math. If thats the case the the Sharans should have played an even larger part than even the Seanchan throughout the series...

 

And I will argue over the 50K number. If thats the case, then there is nothing stopping the Sharans from using their 10:1 ration and instantly sheilding every single Aes Sedai, Ashaman, WO, Kinswoman in the first 10 seconds of battle. Period.

The 50K number is a possibility based on a number of factors, many of which have room for enormous variation. I did not suggest that Demandred actually had that many, only that it was conceivable that he could, and therefore there is no reason at all for large numbers of the Light's channelers to disappear in order to make them the underdogs - it was a mistake, pure an simple. Consider that the population of Shara is unknown, but probably in the millions. We don't know what percentage of their channelers are found, and how many learners remain hidden. We don't know if their breeding practices have resulted in a higher percentage of channelers than the Westlands, only that channeling is genetic and RJ did attribute the reduction in channeler numbers to culling, and specifically mentioned the Red Ajah. We don't know how many of the Ayyad were swung to Demandred's side, only that he didn't have the whole of Shara. As I said, Shara can provide about as many channelers as the plot needs, considering the variables - the numbers I gave ranged from 2,000 to 50,000. The Shadow can be underdogs, equal, or significantly more powerful. Also bear in mind that the more numerous Wise Ones are not as much the focus of the plot as the AS - AMoL could easily have been written to have the bulk of channelers fight off screen, allowing the organisations that have been more central to the plot to be centre stage.

 

Oh, and if anyone wants to disagree with the 50k number, be my guest. Just show your working. Is 5 million Sharans unrealistic? Is it impossible for them to have 2% of their population be channelers? Is Demandred gaining the support of 50% of the channelers out of the question?

 

I've always thought that the channeling ability as a genetic trait was a corner that Jordan painted himself into.  Didn't he also say that channeling was tied to the soul (e.g., A'rangar)?  If that's so, then there are only so many souls that can channel and you shouldn't be able to breed more of them.  It's also a contradiction: Is the trait tied to the soul or to genetics.  I have a hard time seeing how it could be both.

And yet: "For Papazen, while I have spoken of souls being born with the ability to channel in response to questions, I think of it as being genetic also." There isn't really a contradiction here, nor did he paint himself into a corner. To be a channeler you need both the right genetics and the right soul. You also need to be born at a time when channeling exists, because in some Ages it doesn't. I don't see why it being both should be a problem - it's just a matter of a+b=c. If all you have is a, or just b, then you're not c (a channeler).

 

 

@dir

 

There was no need for protection pre SASG and we have no idea when it was started up by the DO. Clearly it wasn't in place during the Breaking.

Of course there was no need for protection, that is only a byproduct of binding the soul to the DO.

No, binding their souls to Shai'tan allowed him to extend protection, it didn't happen automatically.

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Demandred did not have all of Shara at his command. He only had certain regions of it under his control. Or so says Brandon.

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While Trollocs are larger and physically stronger then men, they are also more cowardly and more stupid then men. I personally would bet on 20 decent swordsmen over 20 trollocs any day. Even a Fade, while MUCH more dangerous than a trolloc, can be killed by one good swordsman.

 

In regards to the questions of Demandred being a brilliant general and how could he not have won within the hour... I honestly must say that there seem to be some large irregularities during the battle.

 

Rand completely decimated the Seanchan forces in minutes with Callandor, so yeah, it would seem that Demandred with his Sa'angreal and a circle could probably do the same. I have no explaination why he didnt other than there a number of glaring errors going on...

 

For most of the series the abilities of what someone can do with the power seems to be pretty consistent until this battle. Suian, Elaida and Morainne are about equal strength, followed by Egwene, Elayne, and Avienda, followed by Nyneave, then the forsaken. Its very clear for the most part. A circle of 13 weak Aes Sedai is much stronger than any single person and so on...

 

Egwene has a Sa'angreal and she cant shield Taim who is channeling unaided? My jaw probably dropped open when she didnt just snag him like a kitten. He later comes back with Demandreds Sa'angreal and they fight some more on even footing? Makes no sense. Grendal was fighting Amys, Talaan, Alivia(stronger than Nyneave), AND Cadsuanne simultaneously and it said Grendal was winning somehow? She was drawing from one other but that wouldnt make ther that much stronger. Alot of the rules seem to have been ignored. I dont understand how Demandred could just be sitting there all day in the open and no one throws a little weave of balefire at him and kill him. Doesnt Mogheiden use balefire like a sniper rifle at Nyaneave while shes in the boat? When you hold that much of the power you are an easy target. Thats why people always release it when they can, its safer.

Most of the Light's channelers don't know balefire. Most of those that do understand the harmful effect it has on the Pattern. Also, unlike some readers, channelers tend not to look at balefire as a catch all solution to problems - most of the time, other weaves will do the job as well, without destroying the Pattern while they're at it. Winning a fight isn't just about strength. Graendal has greater knowledge and a good grasp of tactics. And Moghedien's use of balefire was more like an RPG than a sniper rifle - it sank the boat (several minutes in the past), even though it missed Nynaeve.

/>

>Im not sure about the numbers but theres well over 1 thousand of the kin, maybe a thousand Aes Sedai, hundreds of Ashaman, probably several hundred Damane. I dont see how the Shadows forces could have anywhere near that many channelors to match them. I cant imagine the Sharan channelers outnumber the Seanchan's so a couple hundred. Maybe a hundred from the black ajah, a hundred from the black tower. But thats not the impression I was given during the battle. Looking at the math... The light could have formed numerous cicles of 72. a circle that large alone should put them on par with a Sa'angreal, probably more than. If the light has a total of 2000 channelers, thats almost 28 circles of 72.... I imagine thats like Choden Kal level practically. I dont see how they couldnt have vaporized Demandreds army in like 10 seconds...

 

It felt like alot of the facts where just kinda casually forgotten. If anyone could explain any of these I would like to hear them...

lockquote>

A large circle has more power than any individual in it, but less than the total strength of them all combined. Circles are thus not suitable for all work - they'll do better in situations where one strong channeler is more useful than several weaker ones, but other time the greater flexibility of multiple channelers is better. If the Light's armies formed large circles, those circles would become targets. Remember that the Shadow has been gathering the male Aiel channelers for a long time - and breeding them. In addition to that, Shara is a large country that breeds channelers. Seanchan is a large country, but it doesn't breed damane, it removes them from the gene pool (but not sul'dam, I'll grant you), and it left most of its forces back in the empire. Demandred presumably brought everything he had. Given the size of Shara, it could easily have two million people - that amounts to 20,000 channelers, using the 1% figure that the Westlands has, although it wouldn't surprise me if they were closer to the AoL's 3% of the population. Even if Bao only had 10% of those channelers (the others being either casualties of the Sharan civil war or in the factions that he hadn't managed to bring into the fold) they should be numerous enough to match the 2,000 you put forward for the Light. With the BA, Asha'man, Red Veils, etc. they should be capable of matching the Light's channelers on a fairly even footing, if not outright surpassing them. And that's being amazingly conservative with numbers for Shara. If we assume a population closer to 5 million, 2% of the population being channelers and Bao bringing 50% of the Ayyad to his side, that amounts to 50,000 channelers - that's not outside the bounds of possibility. Any assertion that large numbers of channelers needed to vanish in order to make the Light the underdog is just absurd. The numbers do not add up. But the Shadow should be easily capable of matching the light through sheer numbers of channelers, and therefore the idea of circles being able to cut swathes through the enemy without being stopped by by rival circles is simply not realistic.

 

>5. I agree with NitroS comment that "RJ backed himself into a corner with the numbers and i didnt even include the seanchan. He really had no hope of finishing the series in 1 book."

 

I'd add that RJ's style was that whenever he wrote a book he kept slowing the pace down and adding story arcs and character development,which made for great reading IMO, [ Mat Nynaeve and Thom's characters in particular were priceless.] but it also kept making the series longer.

 

BS's greatest strength IMO was that he sped the pace up alot, bringing many arcs to a close while adding virtually no new arcs, so that the series could finally end. The cost though was that many aspects of the story, [ especially the "individual flavor" of each character, ] were rushed and not as vivid or realistic as RJ would have done.  [ I still loved the book though, just not as much as if it had been written by RJ ]

RJ had already begun closing down plot threads and increasing the pace while driving towards a conclusion. He was aware there was a lot still to cover - his statements about a 2,000 page AMoL make that clear. But he wanted one more book because he felt that more than that wouldn't work, structurally. Given the poor structuring of all the books post TGS, he might have had a point. Point is, what you cite as Brandon's greatest strength was just following on from what RJ was doing anyway, and RJ did it without sacrificing the characterisation or voice, and he got the details right while he was doing it. Those losses of voice and characterisation, they are not a product purely of an increased pace.

 

As for RJ backing himself into a corner, that would be true if it wasn't for the huge level of variation in terms of how many channelers could be brought to the fight - as already shown, depending on how big the initial population is, the percentage of it that is comprised of channelers, the number of channelers that are actually found and trained and the number Demandred could muster to his banner Shara could be bringing thousands or tens of thousands. Given that level of variation, that idea that he had written himself into a corner is laughable. There are enough variables involved that Demandred's army can literally be as big as the plot needs it to be at the outset and have it be plausible.

 

Mr Ares, thanks for the reply, I really enjoy your well reasoned thoughts.

 

I need to clarify what I meant.

 

I agree with you that there were ways of getting out of the Light forces being too strong and having too many channelers. One method, as you rightly argue, was to increase the Sharan numbers. Another would have been to introduce new shadowspawn with powers that could negate the Light's advantages. An example could be worms, jumjara or kafar, [ even Graendal was scared of them ] or for that matter, a small army of new gholam. Any of these methods could even up or even tilt the scales in the shadow's favor. 

 

The problem with any of these things and for that matter so is the introduction of a vast Sharan army, is that it seems forced and contrived, and RJ was supremely good at creating smooth flowing arcs and plots. These methods don't follow that style. That is what I meant.

 

Yes RJ was starting to speed the story up somewhat, but it seems to me that BS accelerated the pace significantly more than RJ. When you start going as fast as BS was going, I think that some voice and characterisation will be lost.

 

Personally, after reading Lucker's and Dwynwen's posts on battles between characters, I wish they'd have had an input into the books as they in particular seem to have captured some of the style RJ had with characters.

 

"unfortunately , what else was mat going to do against one of the Forsaken?  Right now, his battle plan revolved around keeping Demandred occupied, forcing the man to respond.  If Demandred had to act as general, he couldn't do as much damage channeling.  (p. 688)

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What happens to the Ways? Will they be cleansed now that the Taint has gone from Saidin? I can't remember anyone using them since the cleansing.

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From the Seattle Q&A (thanks WetlanderNW)...

 

BWS: One thing that did get cut that you may find interesting is that we had about 20,000 words of Perrin going into the Ways, to close the Waygate from behind that’s in Caemlyn. He goes in there with a whole force, and the Black Wind arrives - and the Ogier arrive singing and drive it off.
MKs: (chorus of oohs and aahs.)
BWS: And it was way cool, but it didn’t fit.
MK: Is it going to make it somewhere?
BWS: Probably not.
MKs: (sighs of disappointment) It’s nice to know about, though.
BWS: There were a couple issues with it. One, we had a major issue that I was just doing too much Perrin stuff, because I’d just come off a Perrin book and I love Perrin, and Harriet’s like, “We’re just doing too much Perrin. Let’s scale back the Perrin.” And then the other thing was, she’s like, “You don’t quite have the Ways right, so they don’t have the feel Robert Jordan had.” Rather than spend the time getting it right, she just felt the whole section needed to go anyway, for pacing reasons. Too much Perrin, too much distraction, and Maria made the argument that closing the Waygate wasn’t necessary, because we already had in the plot to have the Trollocs being destroyed another way, so she was like “Why are we closing this Waygate, and spending 20,000 words doing it?” The only reason to keep it was the Ogier arrival, which was awesome, and driving off Mashadar. {He meant Machin Shin, and corrected it later.} The Ogier arrival now is much weaker; they show up at the Field of Merrilor, and that was kind of packed into place after we cut out this whole section.
MK: So what happened in the Ways?
BWS: They drove off the Black Wind with Song.
MK: Drove off, like, permanently?
BWS: No, no, no, they drove it away. And so it leaves you to believe they could perhaps do something about it. And they can.
MK: And that eventually, they will?
BWS: They have that power.
MK: So they could clean up the Ways?
BWS: They could. But it did not happen.
MK: Could they maybe do something like what happened with cleansing the Source, something like that, where they basically use…?
BWS: Yeah, something like that is possible; the Ogier would have to do it.

-(http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/02/a-memory-of-light-tour-report-open-thread)

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A little off topic I guess, but....

 

Are there any WoT action figures that were released ? Damn I would pay for those with an arm and a leg. Couldn't really find any with a search.

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My first post!

 

Anyway, regarding Taim, was he with the shadow from the beginning, or was he recruited after he met Rand?  His concern for Rand seemed so genuine at the time when he first came to Rand and gave him one of the seals, and was pretty shocked when Rand (Lews Therin) immediately looked like he would try to break it.  I was pretty bummed when it became obvious that Taim was a DF.  So, was he one all along?

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My first post!

 

Anyway, regarding Taim, was he with the shadow from the beginning, or was he recruited after he met Rand?  His concern for Rand seemed so genuine at the time when he first came to Rand and gave him one of the seals, and was pretty shocked when Rand (Lews Therin) immediately looked like he would try to break it.  I was pretty bummed when it became obvious that Taim was a DF.  So, was he one all along?

Welcome to Dragonmount! Demandred says he recruited Taim, so it was after Demandred's release from the bore, which was well after Taim had become a false dragon.

 

Some have theorized that Taim gave Rand the seal with a tracker in it so Taim would know where Rand was hiding the seals and then Taim stole them back.

 

If that theory is true, then Taim was already a DF by the time he first met Rand.

Edited by dir ehlef

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