The Greatest Shadow: The Sharpest Tool

[Red Hand Man]

Mesaana and it's not even close. She took a channeling organization, split it (essentially in quarters) and 1/3 of them were on her side. They had very little time to plan, they were open to an attack by the Seanchan. She had a pretty good plan going with Bel'al. She actually captured Rand and drove him nuts. The only reason she was taken out of the fight is because of Graendal's piss poor planning.

 

As far as my favorite character, it would be Demandred, though I would have liked to have gotten his Shara involvement in Towers of Midnight and had it be a cliffhanger for A Memory of Light.

[Aleator77]

Jordan always said the Shadow was winning, but he never really did a great job of conveying it to the reader.  My favorites in terms of actual characters?  Asmodeon and Lanfear.  In the early books Lanfear was easily the best villain of the series.  She and Asmodeon are really the only two with actually relatable personalities and motives anyway.  As far as effectiveness, Demandred is the only Forsaken who actually did his side more overall good than harm.  

[OneWhoMustBeLeashed]

In my opinion, Mordin was the most effective. All of the chaos causing plots of the others were ultimately the result of his orders. He and the Super Fade worked together to reign in the the non-compliant Forsaken, thus enabling them to work together.

 

Demandred was the second most effective. He recruited an entire gigantic nation of non-darkfriends to ally with the shadow. That nation brought hundreds of channelers to the last battle. He also recruited Taim, and so was indirectly responsible for transforming half of the Black Tower into Dreadlords.

 

Semirhage deserves an honorable mention since her plot almost succeeded in taking out Rand.

[MountaineerWV]

Lanfear. I really thought she might redeem herself at the end. My theory was that at the drilling of the Bore she was faced with some sort of torturous death for eternity or join the Dark One. Turns out she is just one evil bitch! haha.

[esvath]

Jordan always said the Shadow was winning, but he never really did a great job of conveying it to the reader.  

I think this is because he never put major characters, beside Rand, into actual danger, victims of hideous plots, or killed outright.

 

He did put minor characters in various state of danger (Morgase suffered terribly, Siuan and Leane also suffered), but he told these stories in less gritty way than, say, Martin or Goodkind. I read the whole series with a firm belief, that Light will win the Last Battle.

[avernite]

Slayer. He was evil, sortof, but he remained semi-threatening (mostly because he was fighting Perrin, admittedly, who sort of might have died. Rand couldn't die pre-Shayol Ghul) and was actually somewhat intelligent-looking.

 

But yeah, by the way RJ wrote things, our characters should've been falling over the sick and starving all the time due to lack of food, not arranging massive armies supplied by ship or gateway (who would have the surplusses?).

[mike hunt's here]

Slayer...

 

what about the old guy...cant recall his name...the beggar that watched carridim...

[Elan Tedronai]

Moridin was literally the biggest loser of the entire series.  1000's of years of planning end in a pathetic sword fight.  It's a shame we never got to see what RJ really had in mind for him because I suspect it would have been grand in some way.  Demandred was a close second - the guy literally reset the bar for biggest loser of the universe....right up until Moridin broke that record a few chapters later.

 

Asmodean and Mesanna were easily the most successful Forsaken.  I had the highest hopes for Lanfear, but she turned out to be another train wreck.  Overall, the greatest weakness in the entire series is the degree of character depth amongst the bad guys.  It is nearly non existent.

 

 

you forget this guy got sammael killed. worthless forsaken in a sea of clowns.

 

its sad when the two weakest forsaken caused the most damage in the book

[Snowdog1]

I picked Lanfear.  Not because she was the most effective, but because I enjoyed reading the chapters with her in them the most.  She could have won had not that compulsion been broken at the end.

[TristanWebb]

I was always partial to the kid from Four Kings who showed up again in Amador, I forget his name. He was trying so hard to be a DF and was just bad at it. It was like his parents were in a cult and he was all 'I don't really know what I am doing, but Mum and Dad are real into this so I have to be too'.

[JakeBarnes]

I very nearly chose Daved Hanlon, because he was just so fun. Brandon really picked up on the chaotic evil nature of his character and his scenes in AMOl were the only ones that made me legitimately uncomfortable. I squirmed.

 

But in the end, I chose Moridin. He was many times more interesting than any of the others, and the interactions he had with Rand were pure gold.

[Suttree]

 

I was always partial to the kid from Four Kings who showed up again in Amador, I forget his name. He was trying so hard to be a DF and was just bad at it. It was like his parents were in a cult and he was all 'I don't really know what I am doing, but Mum and Dad are real into this so I have to be too'.

Indeed. When he showed back up to trick Morgase you almost had to feel for him and knew it wouldn't end well. Although he was pretty adept at playing that "young" looking card.

[mbuehner]

Wow, 0.0 for the DO himself. Thats gotta smart.

 

I would have gone with Moridin running away right up until his odd, anticlimactic ending. I get that he was mushed in with the struggle with the DO, but what a lost opportunity for an AoL old school Saidin showdown that I think most of us expected. All he did was provide a convenient vessel to stuff Rands soul into. Poor showing. Speaking of which, what happens is Rand runs into a family member of the guy his body used to belong to before Moridin took ownership? Awkward...

 

I guess given all the let downs I have to go with Graendal. Despite all the other forsaken screw ups, she nearly won the LB singlehandedly. She coopted the great captains and nearly breached Rand's defenses at SG, probably killed or mind scrambled more light side channelers than anybody else.

[OneWhoMustBeLeashed]

Wow, 0.0 for the DO himself. Thats gotta smart.

 

I would have gone with Moridin running away right up until his odd, anticlimactic ending. I get that he was mushed in with the struggle with the DO, but what a lost opportunity for an AoL old school Saidin showdown that I think most of us expected. All he did was provide a convenient vessel to stuff Rands soul into. Poor showing. Speaking of which, what happens is Rand runs into a family member of the guy his body used to belong to before Moridin took ownership? Awkward...

 

I guess given all the let downs I have to go with Graendal. Despite all the other forsaken screw ups, she nearly won the LB singlehandedly. She coopted the great captains and nearly breached Rand's defenses at SG, probably killed or mind scrambled more light side channelers than anybody else.

 

That is an amusing question. Who did the body belong to originally? And will Rand's women feel uncomfortable cuddling with the new body? I guess he could use his pattern shaping power to change it to look like his old body whenever he sees them. He could change it back afterwards to remain incognito.

[Sha'rah Master]

Moridin, obviously. He was the only one that seemed to have a grasp of the reality of the Wheel of Time, not only on the side of Shadow, but in the whole world, minus the Dark One himself. Not to mention he was named Nae'blis for a reason: because he was the most useful servant of the Shadow.  

[jcb1234]

I feel like Be'Lal would have been the best. Too bad he died so early on

[Viperswhip]

Granny for me she undermined the great captains in this book. It was necessary for Mat to get total control, but it was sad nonetheless. It's tough to guess at her total effect because they would have lost soldiers anyway, but all told their bungled strategies cost the armies 1/2 to 2/3 of their troops. Only Ilutrade was spared the indignity.

 

I hate her to most though for messing up Avi.

[Lord D]

I'm the only vote for Rahvin here because I love the thought of mind controlling beautiful women into doing what I want them to do.  Rahvin's the character I'd be if I was an evil person (and I do have some nasty sexual fantasies).

[Suttree]

I'm the only vote for Rahvin here because I love the thought of mind controlling beautiful women into doing what I want them to do. Rahvin's the character I'd be if I was an evil person (and I do have some nasty sexual fantasies).

TMI

[Lord D]

 

I'm the only vote for Rahvin here because I love the thought of mind controlling beautiful women into doing what I want them to do. Rahvin's the character I'd be if I was an evil person (and I do have some nasty sexual fantasies).

TMI

I actually posted a similar thread after ToM came out, and explained my vote for Rahvin there too.  I guess other people on this forum don't share my mind control fantasies, since in both cases I was the only Rahvin voter.

[Suttree]

 

 

 

I'm the only vote for Rahvin here because I love the thought of mind controlling beautiful women into doing what I want them to do. Rahvin's the character I'd be if I was an evil person (and I do have some nasty sexual fantasies).

TMI

I actually posted a similar thread after ToM came out, and explained my vote for Rahvin there too. I guess other people on this forum don't share my mind control fantasies, since in both cases I was the only Rahvin voter.

Ha, all good mate. Just teasing ;)

[decrepid dragon]

I actually really liked Demandred. I know that a lot of people thought standing and challenging "Lews Therin" to a duel was stupid and made him seem like a giant robot with lasers for eyes, but he was the only forsaken to have feelings and relationships with characters other than master-slave. Besides which, second greatest sa'angreal in the world meant he could be a giant robot with lasers for eyes, I have always liked visible villains just as much as those who plotted from the shadows. He was just too catious with it (and Taim went and screwed up all his work getting it). Also liked he didn't disguise himself or take on someones persona, the second greatest man of the greatest age should be better than everyone else alive now. Especially when he can fulfill prophecies (false prophecies, actual prophecies about him or simply prophecies that he co-opted like Couladin? I never did really figure that out).

 

Second is a tie. Moridin and his understanding of the wheel and desire to die, viewing rebirth as a curse. Lanfear, as her manipulation, deception and simple selfishness were staggeringly complete. Emotionly blackmailing the DO into giving her what she wanted because she timed her destruction of Rand for maximum theatrical impact? That's a special kind of self belief and dedication to yourself.

[jack of shadows]

lanfear was,is,and always will be my favorite shadow character,and to tell you the truth,

she is also my favorite female character in the wheel of time series.

her many participations in books 2-5 were sensational,and her interactions with rand

were breathtaking and deliciously wicked.

ah,the good old days,but all good things must pass and everything went sour after the

cairhienin docks incident.

funnily enough,when perrin killed lanfear i was totally unaffected,it was just a few words

on paper,nothing more.

if you strip lanfear naked from her shadow armour,e.g. forsaken,dark side,power hunger,

you are left only with a woman on a mission to reclaim her man,for all the wrong reasons

maybe,but i truely believe she did love lews therin in her own misguided way.

so when rand walked away from her in the dream shard,she was as good as dead,everything

that came afterwards was incredibly stupid(i'll write about this in perrin's arc).

ok,for old times sake,before lanfear became cyndane,before  robert jordan ran

out of ideas about her,let me give this amazing woman one last hurrah(drums rolling):

ladies and gentlemen,directly from shayol ghul,the greatest show on randland,the hottest,

the coolest,the most regal raven haired beauty your eyes will ever see,the one and only,

thee amazing mierin lanfear eronaile(loud cheers).

[Suttree]

@jak

 

If by "in her own way" you mean she loved the power and association of being with him then I agree. RJ called it "laughable" that she would do anything good for his sake and LTT/Rand tells us straight out she loved power not him.

[jack of shadows]

@suttree,

she is what she is,i've never had a problem with that.

i am not going to sugercoat lanfear characteristics just because i like her.

by the way,there is no corralation whatsoever between love(or falling in love)

and goodness of heart.

so she loved lews therin because of his supreme social station in life,so what?