Who are you, Nakomi? (Full spoilers)

CanUFeelTheLove? · January 27, 2013

Nakomi WAS NOT a lame plot point. She was in RJ's notes, and I believe that the way she was included in just two scenes was very well done by Brandon Sanderson.

I liked her parts. People are upset that they're not getting an answer about who she is. I agree... if she was found somewhere in RJ's notes, I like her.

The idea that lead to the character came from something "deep in the notes", so Vambram isn't exactly correct with his statement. I believe Luckers has the right of it from what he said happened earlier in thread.

That's still fine with me. If the idea was in the notes it's original source was RJ and I'm fine with it. I liked the scene between her and Avi - not sure if that is Nakomi at the end who meets Rand, but I think it is... Anyway, I'm also fine with people not liking her addition to the books. It would be great if we could get some answers. I kinda feel like their desire to remain quiet on the subject is somewhat silly, to be honest. But, whaddaya gonna do?

CanUFeelTheLove? · January 27, 2013

I actually could care less (yes, that's how you use THAT phrase, lol) who Nakomi is. I NEVER cared. ... What works me up is the PRACTICE that Team Jordan has now taken in refusing to asnwer questions fans have. It is inexcusable. See my above post. It is sickening.

Fish

You could care less about who she is? So you do care some?

In case anyone is interested, 'I couldn't care less' was the original version. At some point in American history, people started using 'I could care less' as a sarcastic retort. So, while it is not logical, it not incorrect to say. It made its way into the American vernacular.

Rhiadon · January 27, 2013

How about this idea? When we first see Nakomi, Aviendha is in TAR as has been suggested. The text does seem to support it. But who or what is she? If we accept that she's in TAR what kind of people do we know that have helped our heroes in the past that regularly inhabit TAR. Heroes of the horn, that's who. But why would she help Aviendha. Maybe she is Shaiel/Tigraine. Tigraine is dead, and was Rand's mother. She could know that Aviendha is Rand's lady and is also an Aiel so she could have a propensity to help Aviendha because of her connections to her from her most recent spinning out (if she is Tigraine). The timing fits as well, because the Heroes who had not been spun out yet or ejected from TAR would still be there since the horn hasn't been sounded by Olver yet.

So now let's talk about the scene with Rand in the epilogue. (of course this hinges on accepting that the Aiel woman is Nakomi.) Rand see's her fade away. This sounds like something a Hero of the Horn would do when their time in the real world is up. The timing fits, I think, for that to be happening because about in the same time frame the other Heroes are leaving. Again, if it's Tigraine, she would have affection for her son from time spent as Tigraine.

I don't have an explanation for the name Nakomi being ancient except the ties to Nokomis. But I can't make that fit except for the parallels with the song of Hiawatha. Nakomi could just be the name she identifies with most as a Hero of the Horn when she was spun out as a legend of the Ojibwe people's.

Obviously this is complete speculation, but I don't see any contradiction with the text and is even supported a bit by the text.

Kevin O'Brien · January 28, 2013

She's Tom Bombadill for the WoT.

hell no,Tom had a reason in LOTR, not some lame arse plot point

He did? I remember him as being the most nonsensical character I can remember.

Kevin O'Brien · January 28, 2013

So trying to wrap my head around the Nakomi entity.

A theory of mine is that Nakomi is in essence the caretaker of the wheel/pattern. She has the knowledge of how the pattern is weaved and can be nudged to make certain events happen. Sorta like it is mentioned that the wheel weaves as the wheel wills. Well what if there was a person at the center of that weaving? How I got to this is that there are 7 ages/spokes in the wheel and we know at some point the DO will be released somehow. Thus the Dragon's soul is spun out and we start down the same path again. So let's say in the last spinning of the wheel we go though all the DO being released and the person who is Dragon at that time seals it back up again, as a reward for "winning" or fixing or bringing the pattern back into balance, that person now becomes the caretaker of the pattern in the waking world. 1 caretaker per spinning of the wheel.

So let's say Nakomi was the previous winning Dragon in the prior spinning, she is now caretaker. Now as the spinning continues, the same events happen again, DO is released in some fashion, and now it is up to Rand in this spinning to put it back into balance, he does and the final job the prior caretaker has is to transtion her role to the new Dragon(Rand) so that he may now be the caretaker. Thus why both Nakomi and Rand appear to have the same thread/weaving ability within the pattern.

My guess is that once Nakomi did her job of making sure Rand survived/transtioned to new role in the end, she will then disappear and now it will be Rands job to be the caretaker, up through the next spinning of the wheel, when this will all happen again. Rands role will then be to help the next Dragon transtion to their role as caretaker, etc, etc, etc.

Ramblings of a long time WOT reader.

This is exactly the conclusion I came to about Nakomi. The One Power is comprised of saidin and saidar, so it seems plausible that there is both a male and a female Champion of the Light. Seven ages ago it was saidar that was tainted (then cleansed), and Nakomi was the one to save the world. These two souls alternate every seven ages between the more active role of World Savior (being born and dying, channeling saidin or saidar, being tested and making sacrifices), and the more passive role of Caretaker (living and wandering through all seven ages, weaving the pattern, and ensuring the DO cannot attain ultimate victory).

I recall RJ said Saidar being tainted wouldn't fit the wheel (as the Dragon, supposedly, is always male too, and all).

Plus, it makes the wheel feel unbalanced. One Age of strife (well, and the end of the AoL) and risk to the world, and after that 6 ages of happy la-la land?

IF she is the Champion or caretaker or such, I'd think it much more likely she's from the 6th/7th Age or so. A time when the Wheel is saved by a woman, possibly, or simply a time when she had to step up to bring peace. Rand now gets to be caretaker for 2-4 Ages, and then she (or a third) takes the reins again in a new incarnation.

I think she was the dragon from the previous turning. I don't recall anywhere that the dragon had to be male. Also we have the male forsaken that was reincarnated by the do as a woman. Or it could have been a body switch deal like happened with rand and moridin? Anyways rand seemed to gain the same powers as Nakomi had in TOM at the end of AMOL. Also she seemed to know what Rand was planning in the body switch deal.

Suttree · January 28, 2013

I think she was the dragon from the previous turning. I don't recall anywhere that the dragon had to be male. Also we have the male forsaken that was reincarnated by the do as a woman.

Aran'gar' soul didn't change, just the body. That is why he still channeled Saidin and not Saidar.

As for the Dragon always being male, Rand is the Champion of the Light and souls don't change gender. See post #71 above for RJ's quotes on the topic.

fionwe1987 · January 28, 2013

So trying to wrap my head around the Nakomi entity.

A theory of mine is that Nakomi is in essence the caretaker of the wheel/pattern. She has the knowledge of how the pattern is weaved and can be nudged to make certain events happen. Sorta like it is mentioned that the wheel weaves as the wheel wills. Well what if there was a person at the center of that weaving? How I got to this is that there are 7 ages/spokes in the wheel and we know at some point the DO will be released somehow. Thus the Dragon's soul is spun out and we start down the same path again. So let's say in the last spinning of the wheel we go though all the DO being released and the person who is Dragon at that time seals it back up again, as a reward for "winning" or fixing or bringing the pattern back into balance, that person now becomes the caretaker of the pattern in the waking world. 1 caretaker per spinning of the wheel.

So let's say Nakomi was the previous winning Dragon in the prior spinning, she is now caretaker. Now as the spinning continues, the same events happen again, DO is released in some fashion, and now it is up to Rand in this spinning to put it back into balance, he does and the final job the prior caretaker has is to transtion her role to the new Dragon(Rand) so that he may now be the caretaker. Thus why both Nakomi and Rand appear to have the same thread/weaving ability within the pattern.

My guess is that once Nakomi did her job of making sure Rand survived/transtioned to new role in the end, she will then disappear and now it will be Rands job to be the caretaker, up through the next spinning of the wheel, when this will all happen again. Rands role will then be to help the next Dragon transtion to their role as caretaker, etc, etc, etc.

Ramblings of a long time WOT reader.

This is exactly the conclusion I came to about Nakomi. The One Power is comprised of saidin and saidar, so it seems plausible that there is both a male and a female Champion of the Light. Seven ages ago it was saidar that was tainted (then cleansed), and Nakomi was the one to save the world. These two souls alternate every seven ages between the more active role of World Savior (being born and dying, channeling saidin or saidar, being tested and making sacrifices), and the more passive role of Caretaker (living and wandering through all seven ages, weaving the pattern, and ensuring the DO cannot attain ultimate victory).

Rand is the CoL, it is his soul that is spun out time and again for that purpose and souls don't change gender.

>

Aan'allein

It would be the same soul, or it would be a different soul?

Robert Jordan

It would be the same soul. That is, that is the belief of the world
that I've set up, that it's the same soul. It's a soul of someone bound

to the Wheel, which is spun out for the purposes, for the Wheel's

purposes really, to attempt to re-balance the Weaving of the Pattern.

Aan'allein
But the soul would always be male. Souls don't change gender, so ...
Robert Jordan
...so the soul of the Dragon Reborn is always going to be male,
just as Birgitte's soul is always born as a woman, just as Ameresu's

soul is always born as a woman. There are divisions here, and they are

not interchangeable.

Interview: 2001
Thus Spake the Creator (Paraphrased)
Signing Report (Workings of the Wheel)
Robert Jordan

Female Dragon..NO when a female hero is needed she is

one of the ones bound to the Wheel. Jordan did mention a name but I

didn't hear it. But he did say the Dragon is never female.

Hmmm... I notice that nothing here suggests that another Female soul can't be the Dragon's equal. In fact, given how central the issue of Balance is, I would have to thing there would have to be one such soul. Not called the Dragon, and not taking on his exact role, but doing her own thing that is just as important. There may be other Ages, and other fights, for which she is as central as the DR, for all we know.

JACKSONROY · January 28, 2013

So trying to wrap my head around the Nakomi entity.

A theory of mine is that Nakomi is in essence the caretaker of the wheel/pattern. She has the knowledge of how the pattern is weaved and can be nudged to make certain events happen. Sorta like it is mentioned that the wheel weaves as the wheel wills. Well what if there was a person at the center of that weaving? How I got to this is that there are 7 ages/spokes in the wheel and we know at some point the DO will be released somehow. Thus the Dragon's soul is spun out and we start down the same path again. So let's say in the last spinning of the wheel we go though all the DO being released and the person who is Dragon at that time seals it back up again, as a reward for "winning" or fixing or bringing the pattern back into balance, that person now becomes the caretaker of the pattern in the waking world. 1 caretaker per spinning of the wheel.

So let's say Nakomi was the previous winning Dragon in the prior spinning, she is now caretaker. Now as the spinning continues, the same events happen again, DO is released in some fashion, and now it is up to Rand in this spinning to put it back into balance, he does and the final job the prior caretaker has is to transtion her role to the new Dragon(Rand) so that he may now be the caretaker. Thus why both Nakomi and Rand appear to have the same thread/weaving ability within the pattern.

My guess is that once Nakomi did her job of making sure Rand survived/transtioned to new role in the end, she will then disappear and now it will be Rands job to be the caretaker, up through the next spinning of the wheel, when this will all happen again. Rands role will then be to help the next Dragon transtion to their role as caretaker, etc, etc, etc.

Ramblings of a long time WOT reader.

This is exactly the conclusion I came to about Nakomi. The One Power is comprised of saidin and saidar, so it seems plausible that there is both a male and a female Champion of the Light. Seven ages ago it was saidar that was tainted (then cleansed), and Nakomi was the one to save the world. These two souls alternate every seven ages between the more active role of World Savior (being born and dying, channeling saidin or saidar, being tested and making sacrifices), and the more passive role of Caretaker (living and wandering through all seven ages, weaving the pattern, and ensuring the DO cannot attain ultimate victory).

Rand is the CoL, it is his soul that is spun out time and again for that purpose and souls don't change gender.

>>

Aan'allein

It would be the same soul, or it would be a different soul?

Robert Jordan

It would be the same soul. That is, that is the belief of the world
that I've set up, that it's the same soul. It's a soul of someone bound

to the Wheel, which is spun out for the purposes, for the Wheel's

purposes really, to attempt to re-balance the Weaving of the Pattern.

Aan'allein
But the soul would always be male. Souls don't change gender, so ...
Robert Jordan
...so the soul of the Dragon Reborn is always going to be male,
just as Birgitte's soul is always born as a woman, just as Ameresu's

soul is always born as a woman. There are divisions here, and they are

not interchangeable.

lockquote>

>

Interview: 2001
Thus Spake the Creator (Paraphrased)
Signing Report (Workings of the Wheel)
Robert Jordan

Female Dragon..NO when a female hero is needed she is

one of the ones bound to the Wheel. Jordan did mention a name but I

didn't hear it. But he did say the Dragon is never female.

Hmmm... I notice that nothing here suggests that another Female soul can't be the Dragon's equal. In fact, given how central the issue of Balance is, I would have to thing there would have to be one such soul. Not called the Dragon, and not taking on his exact role, but doing her own thing that is just as important. There may be other Ages, and other fights, for which she is as central as the DR, for all we know.

Read here, the Dragon Reborn is ALWAYS male because a soul can not change gender, but apparently there is a female equivalent that can be spun out if needed, but she isn't that DR and doesn't serve the same purpose.

Suttree · January 28, 2013

Indeed there is a quote to the effect of if the pattern needed a female equivalent to the Dragon it would weave "*insert female Dragon name here*" and that you can find her in the scene where Mat blows the horn. He did follow that up with this however:

Q: Mr. Jordan, is it possible that in another age, another turning of the wheel, that Saidar could be tainted instead of Saidin? This relates to the Female Dragon Theory.

A: That is not something I intend to explore.

A word of caution as well about "Thus Spake the Creator". Although a good source all in all, I know there are a number of old timers who were skeptical about the complete reliability of some of the quotes.

fionwe1987 · January 28, 2013

Read here, the Dragon Reborn is ALWAYS male because a soul can not change gender, but apparently there is a female equivalent that can be spun out if needed, but she isn't that DR and doesn't serve the same purpose.

That's exactly what I was thinking.

Indeed there is a quote to the effect of if the pattern needed a female equivalent to the Dragon it would weave "*insert female Dragon name here*" and that you can find her in the scene where Mat blows the horn. He did follow that up with this however:

Q: Mr. Jordan, is it possible that in another age, another turning of the wheel, that Saidar could be tainted instead of Saidin? This relates to the Female Dragon Theory.

A: That is not something I intend to explore.

A word of caution as well about "Thus Spake the Creator". Although a good source all in all, I know there are a number of old timers who were skeptical about the complete reliability of some of the quotes.

The part with the Female Dragon being there when Mat blew the Horn seems very unclearly written. I'm not quite sure its a trusted source, as you say.

January 28, 2013

I think the simplest answer is the best.

Nakomi is Harriet. Nakomi helped Rand do the body swap. Harriet helped Brandon take over for RJ. Body swap = Author change.

RJ knew that there was a possibility that he couldn't finish the series, and gave his approval to have the series finished by another author. Maybe it was during this time that he conceived of the body swap ending and altered the original ending. This might also explain the viewing of Rand's 3 girls and the boat. It got lost in the shuffle.

The reason that Brandon isn't commenting on this is that it's a bit personal, being between RJ and Harriet.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Maxam

Magus sedai · January 28, 2013

I came away from the book with the feeling Nakomi was the creators "hand" they both use the powers of their "masters" and their purpose is covered in mystery after 14 books I have no idea why the DO needed a "hand" wasn't that Moridin place

Stephen Lorimor · January 29, 2013

My interpretation was that Nokomi was the Creator.

rane008 · January 29, 2013

Am I the only one who thinks that Nakomi was just a bone thrown to fandom to keep speculation alive? In other words, I couldn't give two douchenozzles who she was.

Finnssss22 · January 29, 2013

Am I the only one who thinks that Nakomi was just a bone thrown to fandom to keep speculation alive? In other words, I couldn't give two douchenozzles who she was.

Nakomi is based on something BS found deep in RJ's notes.

Barid Bel Medar · January 29, 2013

Am I the only one who thinks that Nakomi was just a bone thrown to fandom to keep speculation alive? In other words, I couldn't give two douchenozzles who she was.

Nakomi is based on something BS found deep in RJ's notes.

Not that I disagree with you, but that statement was quite ambiguous of Brandon.

It's not clear if RJ actually planned to put Nakomi into the story.

INTERVIEW: 2013
Twitter 2013 (WoT) (Verbatim)

KEITH PISHNERY (13 JANUARY 2013)
Did RJ say that Nakomi should be included? You said she was "deep in RJ's notes" but wondering if it was up in the air?

BRANDON SANDERSON (13 JANUARY 2013)
I said something deep in the notes made me include her. I have not said if she herself was in the notes or not.

However, we do also have Brandon saying he didn't add it in simply for people to theorize, so make of it what you will.

INTERVIEW: Jan 9th, 2013
AMOL Signing Report - Austin Moore (Paraphrased)
AUSTIN MOORE

BRANDON SANDERSON
A fan asked who Nakomi was from book 13. Of course, Brandon said RAFO but that there was a clue in A Memory of Light. When I heard this I thought of when Aviendha asked Bair about Nakomi and Bair said it was an old name so I asked Brandon if that was the clue when I was at the signing table and got a RAFO as well. However, he did say that she was in the book for a reason. She was not, and he emphasized it well, not in the series just to be theorized about.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Barid Bel Medar

Ace Sedai · January 29, 2013

Am I the only one who thinks that Nakomi was just a bone thrown to fandom to keep speculation alive? In other words, I couldn't give two douchenozzles who she was.

Count me in for this.

Suttree · January 29, 2013

@Barid

We have also seen enough statements at this points that have changed/evolved over time(who wrote what for the ending for example) that I'm pretty skeptical here.

BFG · January 29, 2013

Am I the only one who thinks that Nakomi was just a bone thrown to fandom to keep speculation alive? In other words, I couldn't give two douchenozzles who she was.

Nakomi is based on something BS found deep in RJ's notes.

Not that I disagree with you, but that statement was quite ambiguous of Brandon.

It's not clear if RJ actually planned to put Nakomi into the story.

>

INTERVIEW: 2013
Twitter 2013 (WoT) (Verbatim)

KEITH PISHNERY (13 JANUARY 2013)
Did RJ say that Nakomi should be included? You said she was "deep in RJ's notes" but wondering if it was up in the air?

BRANDON SANDERSON (13 JANUARY 2013)
I said something deep in the notes made me include her. I have not said if she herself was in the notes or not.

However, we do also have Brandon saying he didn't add it in simply for people to theorize, so make of it what you will.

INTERVIEW: Jan 9th, 2013
AMOL Signing Report - Austin Moore (Paraphrased)
AUSTIN MOORE

BRANDON SANDERSON
A fan asked who Nakomi was from book 13. Of course, Brandon said RAFO but that there was a clue in A Memory of Light. When I heard this I thought of when Aviendha asked Bair about Nakomi and Bair said it was an old name so I asked Brandon if that was the clue when I was at the signing table and got a RAFO as well. However, he did say that she was in the book for a reason. She was not, and he emphasized it well, not in the series just to be theorized about.

@Barid

We have also seen enough statements at this points that have changed/evolved over time(who wrote what for the ending for example) that I'm pretty skeptical here.

This could just mean that Nakomi served a purpose, fulfilled a role in the story which she did. She started Avi thinking about the role of the Aiel, not so sure about the second unless it had something to do with the body-swap. By fulfilling a role, moving the story forward she's no longer in there purely for theory fodder (not sure I've explained what I mean very well)

Barid Bel Medar · January 29, 2013

As I said, make of it what you will.

Personally, I use the same reasoning as with the RJ interviews.

I prefer to give Sanderson the benefit of the doubt until he has either changed his statement, or it has been proven wrong.

However, I do realise that some statements have been ambiguous, so I can certainly see the possibility of it being a misunderstanding or something.

I take what has been said as correct, but I don't turn a blind eye to the other possibilities.

CanUFeelTheLove? · January 29, 2013

The more I think about it, the more I agree with whoever asked Brandon if Nakomi is some sort of wandering Jew. The story of the wandering jew is a Christian European story from the 13th century. It's very much like the story of the Longinus the Roman Centurian who speared Jesus in the side while he was one the cross (in the sense that they both failed/harmed Jesus and were both cursed to walk the earth until the second coming).

Obviously, I don't know how but I think she's an Aiel forced to wander the earth until the mistake of the Aiel is corrected. It goes along with both the Dragon mythology and the mythology that has been built up around Jesus. The Aiel broke their promise to the Dragon (in their own eyes, at least). The name is very old - the first Aiel woman to pick up the spear?; one of the Jenn?

This actually makes sense in the context of the People of the Dragon.... I don't know how she would have lived so long but I wouldn't be surprised if this is where she comes from.....

Edited January 29, 2013 by CanUFeelTheLove?

CanUFeelTheLove? · January 29, 2013

In fact, it would make sense if she was the last remnant of the Jenn Aiel and her mission was to help guide the Aiel back to the Way of the Leaf. Avi's vision in Rhuidean of the future is what spurs her to ask Rand to include them in the Peace of the Dragon where they become, in effect, Peace Keepers and thus move closer to their roll in the Age of Legends.

Hyronimus · January 31, 2013

Nakomi is Alivia

That's right, and it makes perfect sense.

She knows Rand lives in Moridin being the one who helped him leave the cave and swap bodies thus fullfillinf the prophecy that she would help him die.

As a damane taken from the seanchan and rehabilitated it makes sense that she would both wear Aiel clothes (not those of a wise one of course) and be schooled in their traditions.

She is incredibly old and one would assume possessing incredible wisdom, with a personal understanding of the structure/purpose dominating ones life being overturned and finding a new purpose.

Her strenght in the power would make learning new and inovative weaves believable as this is a common trait with those of great strength in the power.

There is no reason she wouldn't be aware of the wise ones traditions in going through the glass collums, and very likely went through herself meeting Avi on the way out.

nope, no reason why this can't be at all.

p.s. would have liked to start a new thread for this in aid of some focus

BFG · January 31, 2013

Nakomi is Alivia

That's right, and it makes perfect sense.

She knows Rand lives in Moridin being the one who helped him leave the cave and swap bodies thus fullfillinf the prophecy that she would help him die.

As a damane taken from the seanchan and rehabilitated it makes sense that she would both wear Aiel clothes (not those of a wise one of course) and be schooled in their traditions.

She is incredibly old and one would assume possessing incredible wisdom, with a personal understanding of the structure/purpose dominating ones life being overturned and finding a new purpose.

Her strenght in the power would make learning new and inovative weaves believable as this is a common trait with those of great strength in the power.

There is no reason she wouldn't be aware of the wise ones traditions in going through the glass collums, and very likely went through herself meeting Avi on the way out.

nope, no reason why this can't be at all.

p.s. would have liked to start a new thread for this in aid of some focus

Pretty sure that you need to have Aiel blood for the columns to work.

I think she's also been described as 'child-like' as a result of being treated like a pet for so long, she's certainly never been taught anything, so I'm not sure that she could be considered wise

pattikins · February 1, 2013

Oh, hey, a new Nakomi thread! I haven't lurked here for a while.

I admit that my looney theory no longer makes sense to me, since reading about Brandon's reticence to answer questions about her and how he phrased it. I guess I just wanted to meet Tigraine (such a cool name)/Shaiel somewhere in the series, in flashback at the very least, so I latched onto Nakomi as the only possibility. I now believe that if she were Rand's mother returned from the probably-dead, Brandon would have no trouble talking about it. The same might be said for most of the other theories, even the Jenn Aiel one which is intriguing and has a lot in common with my whacky idea.

The only reason I can imagine for all this mystery is the "Nakomi represents Harriet" theory. That would be very Brandon, IMHO, and would explain a lot. Especially taking into account what Peter has written here, debunking the "deep in the notes" thing.

But if it turns out that I was somehow originally correct, even though absolutely no one has given it credence, oh how I will crow! Fat chance, but, hey . . . .

Who *are* you, Nakomi? (Full spoilers)

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Who are you, Nakomi? (Full spoilers)

Nakomi's ture identity
321 members have voted